| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
my left bollock
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 87
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: A message to Ian Neal |
 |
|
Hello Ian
Can you please advise why the front page of this site (in the media section) has a link to Loose Change 2nd edition.
Loose Change clearly supports the use of planes on the WTC when this is clearly a lie.
To continue to provide the link you will be endorsing a pack of lies
Why is September Clues not included?
No doubt you will not bother to answer |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
chek
Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: A message to Ian Neal |
|
|
| my left bollock wrote: | Hello Ian
Can you please advise why the front page of this site (in the media section) has a link to Loose Change 2nd edition.
Loose Change clearly supports the use of planes on the WTC when this is clearly a lie.
To continue to provide the link you will be endorsing a pack of lies
Why is September Clues not included?
No doubt you will not bother to answer |
Ian, please consider carefully the following threads which show beyond doubt that September Clues promotes lies, as exposed on these threads:
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11608
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11695
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11664
It all gets so untidy otherwise.
_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
It's them or us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Indubitably
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 264
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Ian Neal,
Exposed through the day is the fact that 4 members here are unable to answer a straight question on 'what hit the Twin Towers', despite them being bitterly against NPT.
Since their failure and refusal to answer such a simple question is time and time again demonstrated on this forum will you, at long last, take action to expose the TROLLS who are ruining your website ?
Members here expect this forum to consist of those who, respectfully, discuss different points of view on the evidence presented to us. In this case the opponents of NPT deny a single act of fakery despite numerous cases being presented to them (the examples today including detailed analysis of Choppers 5 and 7 at the WTC). To this analysis nothing is offered in reply.
And, in response to the question (asked of Gruts, John White, Check and Dogsmilk) of what hit the Twin Towers they are shown (to all visitors here) to have no answer. In the case of Dogsmilk he answers 'Aeroplanes?, illustrating his own confusion.
The net result of these weeks of nonsense is that this forum has rightly been criticised for harbouring agents of misinformation, whose only aim is not to establish truth, but to lead members round and round in aimless circles, this despite never, at any time, telling us what hit the WTC. These are the same members who are most active on this forum and whose actual contribution to truth is nil.
In the interests of your forum, please, once again, consider sending these idiots away from here so that the reputation of your forum and of the truth movement can be maintained.
Yours sincerely |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| my left bollock wrote: | Hello Ian
Can you please advise why the front page of this site (in the media section) has a link to Loose Change 2nd edition.
Loose Change clearly supports the use of planes on the WTC when this is clearly a lie.
To continue to provide the link you will be endorsing a pack of lies
Why is September Clues not included?
No doubt you will not bother to answer |
The intention is that the front page consists of the least contested, most convincing evidence that supports the need to reopen 9/11 and other related events.
I don't see that loose change presents a theory of 'what really happened'. It starts with the official story (which obviously is based on planes) and presents evidence which undermines it. As is widely acknowledged here and elsewhere the film does have errors in it but when taken in totality in makes a compelling argument, just as other 9/11 films do.
The reason september clues isn't up there is precisely because the evidence it presents is so contested amongst campaigners and not just those you call trolls.
But to be clear we have been here before during Fred's time. You can endless bang on about trolls, but I see nothing that chek, john white, gruts, etc are doing that is against the rules of the forum. You notice that being a 'troll' is not actually against the rules.
If we accept this definition below it is not against the rules to post contrary messages or to challenge someone else's beliefs. Neither is against the rules to post controversial messages especially in the NPT section since these theories are themselves particularly controversial or contested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
| Quote: | | An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response |
So I ask again as I have asked before which rules do you believe have been broken? How would you change the rules so they apply fairly and equally to all?
And don't just say create a sandpit and insist that those who are challenging the NPTs/Sept Clues are only allowed to post in this area because this is not going to happen.
Basically as far as I can tell what you are calling for is the same or similar to killtown's existing forum. That is not going happen. This forum has a long standing tradition of welcoming all swathes of opinion within the 9/11 truth movement: peak oilers and non-peaker oilers, pod advocates and non-pod advocates, the religious and the agnostic, no planers and 'planehuggers', etc. etc.
It is certainly my opinion that it is the job of the moderators to try and keep discussions moderate based on a set of rules that apply equally to all and not tell users what is the truth and what is not.
That is not to say moderators don't have their own opinions, but these opinions should not interfere with how they moderate or apply the rules
Thanks
Ian |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Indubitably
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 264
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ian Neal,
Why don't you just re-name this site the 'Stonyhurst Blogger' and have done with it ? Then there will be no more pretence of being a 'truth forum'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chek
Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Indubitably
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 264
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The insouciance is your very own. My comments were directed to Ian Neal, and not to you.
Are you patient enough to realise that ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Killtown
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 438
Location: That Yankee country the U.S.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Killtown, could you possibly address the issues in the threads you'll find in the post by John White above? Your drones appear to be floundering and have lapsed into killtowning.
Thanks.
_________________
It's a man's life in MOSSAD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Indubitably
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 264
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: Quote of the Week |
|
|
In written reply to multiple complaints of Jesuitical practices on this 'truth forum' Ian Neal (anagramatically a candidate for being 'Alien N1') -
'You notice that being a 'troll' is not actually against the rules'.
No Ian, we hadn't noticed that before. We sure do now !
LOL
Last edited by Indubitably on Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
my left bollock
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 87
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ian Neal
The only people slagging September clues are the Trolls that lurk and post drivel 24/7 on this forum
Why can't you put it on the front page and let people make their own mind up? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Indubitably
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 264
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dogsmilk has missed the point.
9/11 research (and I'm sorry that I have to remind you of it) is to establish the truth of what really happened on 9/11. Yes ? I mean, don't you agree ?
OK, since 9/11 research is to establish the truth of what really happened on 9/11 let's focus on the material evidence of 9/11. Right ? (Are you still with me ?).
Various researchers have published their findings. Some are good. Some less good.
Take a simple example. The 'nose out' shot that was broadcast on 9/11 by media corporations. (Some broadcasters of that day even remarked themselves that the nose had come right thru the building). Now, these frames appear to show a nose cone. Whether the nose cone is PRECISELY the same as the nose cone of frames taken before is an interesting question. But the FACT that it remarkably resembles a nose cone is not disputed, by anyone. Right ?
We see also that dust (which some interpret those frames to be, rather than a nose cone) does not fly through the air in a cone shape. I mean, nobody can show us dust flying in the shape of a cone, let alone in a shape remarkably like the nose cone of the 'plane' that supposed caused it. We are again forced to admit the FACT that these frames are remarkably similar to the nose cone of the 'plane'. Right ?
And thus, though we may argue on the microscopic similarities of one frame to another we cannot argue on the FACT that the 'nose cone' frames are consistent with them being a continuation of the nose cone of the 'plane'.
Fairness, logic and common sense tells us so.
That is why you must try to avoid personalising your attacks against those who disagree with you. Nico Haupt or any other researcher is presenting evidence that deserves a fair reply. Those who believe in planes hitting the Twin Towers use the tactic of focusing on tiny areas of disagreement, rather than the actual larger picture.
I will discuss any aspect of September Clues if, in advance, you agree to the larger truth that here, in this nose-out material (and again in such frames as those taken from Chopper 5) we are dealing with material that is highly suggestive of media manipulation.
If you accept this basic FACT (the contradictions in the material) then, sure, we can have constructive exchanges on September Clues or on any other published material.
Let us first agree that material exists which IS suggestive of media fakery. Do so and there will be no problem in constructive and respectful debate. Do not do so and we will never be able to arrive at any conclusion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chek
Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Indubitably wrote: | | more blather. |
According to 911 Truth action:
""September Clues" is turning out to be a great litmus test for how on or off base a local group is. Any group who decides to show these films at one of their open group meetings, where newbies might be, without any explanation or complaint from the rank and file, is compromised on some level.
It doesn't matter if it's infiltration or hideously bad judgment on the part of the leaders--the effect is the same--a group that has so many liabilities will not be effective".
http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2413
I'd mostly agree with that - though maybe quibble that 'brainwashed' may be a better word than 'compromised.'
Although having said that, I appreciate their view is more politically centred in the mainstream sense.
It's been suggested that the 'errors' may be honest 'mistakes', but as there are so many 'errors' and the mistakes are always in one direction and are always in favour of an agenda, outright fraud seems a far more likely motive.
Fortunately, using that as the suggested yardstick, it's easy to tell which 'truth' sites are indeed compromised.
If it promotes or features the fraudulant September Clues, the site itself is a fraud.
No question, end of story.
More information on the scale of the 'no planes's deception' can be found at the following links:
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11608
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11695
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11664
_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
It's them or us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Indubitably wrote: | Various researchers have published their findings. Some are good. Some less good.
|
Is this a tacit recognition that SeptClues is deeply flawed?
If we are all trying to find the truth (hopefully we are), why are you avoiding an attempt to nail down some specific claims made in SeptClues?
Why are you trying to move on to a new area of discussion without addressing the issues repeatedly put to you? Are you trying to sidestep by getting people to talk about nosecones?
Why must people agree to your broad thesis before you will discuss particular issues? Why do you attach strange conditions to a simple request to address an issue?
_________________
It's a man's life in MOSSAD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Killtown wrote: | | ian neal wrote: |
Basically as far as I can tell what you are calling for is the same or similar to killtown's existing forum. |
And that is??? |
Setting up a sandbox or sandpit or how ever you describe it in which those you consider to be trolls are restricted to.
I have commented on your proposal. The answer is no. You have not defined trolls, but it seems to be anyone challenging sept clues.
So I ask again as I have asked before which rules do you believe have been broken? How would you change the rules so they apply fairly and equally to all? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Indubitably
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 264
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Ian,
You ask how the rules of this truth forum could be changed so that they apply fairly and equally to all.
I honestly think the solution is not a cosmetic one. The solution is that you, as proprietor of this website, should first have the honesty and integrity to admit that your website is and has always been so closely allied to the Jesuit Order in terms of its sympathetic treatment of agents of misinformation (further confirmed by your sympathy with other such forums elsewhere) that it's undeclared jesuitical ethos is the equivalent of a hidden agenda on 9/11 issues, and this explains why trolls are even acknowleged by you to have as many membership rights here as honest posters.
If you wish to get rid of trolls from this forum please state clearly that this IS what you wish to see. It's the least that we as forum members deserve. Otherwise you will, by your own duplicity, preside over a forum which has died and which died because it was repeatedly exposed as a bogus truth forum without you taking fair and reasonable action to prevent it becoming so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chek
Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Indubitably wrote: | | inflammatory blather. |
This site will never become a compromised pit of hypocrisy in the image of 911Movement.
See this post here:
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11608&start=30
"Well, well, well, who says irony and sheer hypocrisy is dead?
Looks like 911Movement - the site that likes nothing more than to whinge interminably on about how 'oppressed' they are by 'censorship' - have pulled PepeLapiu's thread on the previous link provided!
Although the post is still in the original thread, before it was posted to one of its own. Someone's getting uncomfortably close to the truth it seems.
http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=1840&view=getnewpost
No answers from the noplaners there yet!
_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
It's them or us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Indubitably wrote: | Dear Ian,
You ask how the rules of this truth forum could be changed so that they apply fairly and equally to all.
I honestly think the solution is not a cosmetic one. The solution is that you, as proprietor of this website, should first have the honesty and integrity to admit that your website is and has always been so closely allied to the Jesuit Order in terms of its sympathetic treatment of agents of misinformation (further confirmed by your sympathy with other such forums elsewhere) that it's undeclared jesuitical ethos is the equivalent of a hidden agenda on 9/11 issues, and this explains why trolls are even acknowleged by you to have as many membership rights here as honest posters.
If you wish to get rid of trolls from this forum please state clearly that this IS what you wish to see. It's the least that we as forum members deserve. Otherwise you will, by your own duplicity, preside over a forum which has died and which died because it was repeatedly exposed as a bogus truth forum without you taking fair and reasonable action to prevent it becoming so. |
More endless, circular arguments that fail to answer my questions and make childish, evidence free accusations (allied to the 'jesuit Order' indeed)
If you don't like it don't post here. I could have sworn you promised you were leaving anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Looks like 911Movement - the site that likes nothing more than to whinge interminably on about how 'oppressed' they are by 'censorship' - have pulled PepeLapiu's thread on the previous link provided!
|
What a suprise!
_________________
Free your Self and Free the World |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Indubitably
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 264
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
By their fruits shall we know them, right ?
Ian, please remove the trolls from this forum. Trolls which, you freely admit, have as many rights to membership here as do honest members.
You can't do so. That's because the problem is more than tinkering around with membership rules. It is structural. It is the fact that your forum supports misinformation and that it is falsely posing as a truth forum, for which you and you alone are responsible.
That is why it's a jesuitical website. And why you cannot remove the trolls. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Indubitably wrote: | | Ian, please remove the trolls from this forum. |
If you absolutely insist
Indubitably you're banned. Bye now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blackcat
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| About time too. Now get the others *. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Killtown
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 438
Location: That Yankee country the U.S.
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ian neal wrote: | | Killtown wrote: | | ian neal wrote: |
Basically as far as I can tell what you are calling for is the same or similar to killtown's existing forum. |
And that is??? |
Setting up a sandbox or sandpit or how ever you describe it in which those you consider to be trolls are restricted to.
I have commented on your proposal. The answer is no. You have not defined trolls, but it seems to be anyone challenging sept clues.
So I ask again as I have asked before which rules do you believe have been broken? How would you change the rules so they apply fairly and equally to all? |
This is why I question if you are a shill or just don't care because if you don't know the definition of a "troll" that I've been telling you for the last couple of months, then there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with you.
You asked what rules have the trolls broken? Here:
| Quote: | b) Posting abusive, racist, sexist and inflammatory or derogatory remarks or material including ‘unnecessary’ swearing
c) Making allegations against other users without providing evidence to back up such allegations (such as calling them an agent or shill) including abusive signatures
Posting material irrelevant to the thread and diverting discussions
Starting threads in inappropriate sections or with inappropriate titles
Inappropriate swearing, flippancy and sarcasm
Referring to other posters in your signature |
| Quote: | | but it seems to be anyone challenging sept clues |
Always making it about NPT, huh?
_________________
killtown.blogspot.com - 911movement.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not making it about NPT. I'm making it about rules that apply equally to all although it is no coincidence that those you accuse of trolling are attacking the NPTs.
The posts you have cited as examples of trolling do not IMO break the forum rules, at least no more so than you have done in return. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Killtown
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 438
Location: That Yankee country the U.S.
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ian neal wrote: | I'm not making it about NPT. I'm making it about rules that apply equally to all although it is no coincidence that those you accuse of trolling are attacking the NPTs.
The posts you have cited as examples of trolling do not IMO break the forum rules, at least no more so than you have done in return. |
Yes you are, my entire complaint has been about the members who attack, insult, mock, ridicule, smear, etc and you and the trolls i'm complaining about try to spin it that it has something to do about NPT.
You are correct, it is no coincidence because 9x out of 10, the anti-NPT crowd exhibit troll behavior.
If really need evidence that these people have broken your rules, you need to look no further than check's signature:
| Quote: | | "Only two things are infinite, the universe and noplaner stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former". Alberto Einstein (no relation) |
_________________
killtown.blogspot.com - 911movement.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chek
Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Killtown wrote: | If really need evidence that these people have broken your rules, you need to look no further than check's signature:
| Quote: | | "Only two things are infinite, the universe and noplaner stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former". Alberto Einstein (no relation) |
|
Killtown, if you are going to cite someone, at least have the common courtesy to spell their nick correctly. Is all your research to such a high standard?
Furthermore - most would know who and where my signature is derived from and can recognise the joke. Perhaps that's not the case with the poor, oppressed and persecuted, dour and humourless, a-perp-round-every corner personality type attracted by NPT/Fakery/BS?
At one time I might have considered changing it, if I had any respect for the purveyors of NPT as a theory. But as they willingly promote distortions and fraud even after they've been pointed out - or as in your own case - merely stonewall, my respect is at a pretty low ebb.
So get used to it, or better yet don't put yourself in a position where you have to look at it.
_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
It's them or us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
my left bollock
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 87
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Killtown
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 438
Location: That Yankee country the U.S.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Chat
Usergroups
Calendar
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
