| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
 |
|
You may censor the Urban75 forum but this one is open to all even yourself.
What on earth does you writing about what happened in 2002 have to do with what happened in 2005?
Let me point out to new readers, the only person who 'outed' you about your previous incident was you yourself.
All people here want is the truth. You have demonstrated many times that you are not willing to share in the debate nor are you willing to answer legitamate questions.
Your book sales have flopped and i would suggest your 15 minutes are over.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am not a moderator on urban 75, a simple fact which even the most cursory research would have verified.
And I am in the process of sending over a legal letter of claim to this website, which cites you amongst others so I'd watch it if I were you.
The legal letter is going to Ian Neal as he is listed as a moderator. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
You sending over a letter?
Unlike your previous victim Felicity if you send something to me i will engage with you and defend whatever you allege ROBUSTLY.
So you be warned it will cost you alot of money and you probably will lose.
Idle legal threats is how you answer legitimate questions.
Well done, whoever posted the heading may have had a point after all.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Stelios, I am not engaging with you, there is no point wasting my time. I have 2 radio interviews to do about the need for an independent inquiry, you can listen to me on Radio 4 on the World at One. The interviews are, as usual, unpaid and part of the campaigning work done in order to keep the matter of an inquiry in the news. We are also, as I am sure you aware, in a litigatory process against the Government and security services and asking for a Judicial Review. Firing off a standard libel letter to this website is hardly in the same league and holds no fear for me or my legal advisers. Meanwhile, you can sit here and post poorly-informed insults to people who have survivied terrorist attacks on the internet, I am sure the cause of justice is well served by such actions. That's my last word to you on this or any other subject.
I am requesting that the site moderators remove libellous and defamatory material. Ian Neal, please look out for a PM. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fair enough
until the next time
xxx
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yesterday Rachel contacted me to complain that she was being defamed and libelled. In essense users stated Rachel was not being honest and truthful. I reviewed the posts she referred me to and I agree with her. I have subsequently editted the offending remarks. I hope I have done so adequately.
With these changes made I am now reinstating this thread.
May I appeal to all users to take care in the way in which you express yourselves. If you are going to publicly challenge someone's good name, make sure you can defend your accusations. It is a time consuming process for moderators to remove libellous comments
Thank you and apologies to Rachel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
astro3
Suspended
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 274
Location: North West London
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
The crucial testimony
The following testimony is more important than Rachel’s because it comes from someone, ‘George,’ who was in the first carriage by the second set of double doors – ie exactly where ‘the bomb’ had supposedly gone off. As Prole noted, he had no idea that any bomb had gone off, and assumed that his train had somehow crashed. The London Assembly has printed pages of this, showing how important they considered George's story to be. Here is an extensive quotation, in order to show that he was quite compos mentis. It starts with him at King’s Cross on a very crowded train, and he is imagining that Jermaine Lindsay then gets on:
| Quote: | I’m out of the way, doors open and another dozen force their way on, including Jermaine Lindsay. I now know that he was approximately one metre to my left but, between me and him, there must have been – I don’t know – 30 people, 40 people, but by now it is packed solid. I’m up against the glass partition, with my back to the double doors, facing the other double doors. The doors open, another dozen force their way on. I thought, ‘That is all I want, but it is only two stops.’ The doors shut. The timeframe now – other people may say different, but I’m only going from how I lived it – it was approximately 12 seconds, 12-15 seconds, and then this almighty bang.
Richard Barnes (Chair): The Tube had pulled out, had it?
George: The Tube was moving. The doors shut; we started to pull into the tunnel. It was approximately 12-15 seconds. I’m led to believe – again, it is all later research, people I have spoken to since – the end carriage was only about 50 metres from the end of King’s Cross. This almighty bang. I said, ‘What the effing hell’s that?’ In this millisecond, from the time that went, there was this bright, orange light opposite, and I’m facing the double doors, with my back to the doors on the platform side. In that millisecond, it went from a bright orange to nothing. What the hell was that? Of course, audibly I hear a lot – screaming, praying. We now know that 25 people around me were just outright killed; another 25 people were seriously injured. My first reaction was – I knew where I was in relation to the carriage, and I knew I was on the first carriage – I thought, ‘We have hit a train.’ My first thought was, ‘We have hit a train; the driver is dead’ I can’t see anything. It‘s pandemonium; there is black smoke pouring in and I’m having a hell of a job to breathe anyway. I’m thinking, all in these seconds, ‘This isn’t good. This isn’t good, because, if this is followed by fire, or more dense smoke, you’re not getting out of this, George.’ I had literally written myself off; I felt this is where it ends. ‘You’re not getting out of this.’ I couldn’t see. I had never experienced anything like that before. I can’t talk for other carriages but, in the first carriage, you could see nothing.
Then somebody said, ‘Has anybody got a torch?’ I thought, ‘That is fair enough.’ He said, ‘Get your mobile.’ What is the point of getting a mobile phone out? Then, apparently, the modern phone, if you open them up, they have quite a bright light. All you see is a beam about half an inch in diameter. You couldn’t see the hand that was holding that light; you couldn’t see the arm; you certainly couldn’t see the person that was holding it. They soon put them away, because it wasn’t having any effect at all. There was this, I assume it was a West Indian lady because she was praying very loudly.
There were people screaming. There were people saying, ‘Get the doors open. We will smash the doors.’ Somebody tried to get the door open where I had my back up against, but they soon gave up because I think the pressure was still on the actual door mechanism, and they gave up. They did get it slightly open; there was a slight change to the air that was coming in, and then they gave up. I couldn’t see them. Nobody spoke to me; I did not speak to them, because I couldn’t see anybody. For me, that was one of my problems. You could audibly hear a lot, but visually, you saw nothing. After about – again the timeframe may be different – I do not know, four or five minutes, it did seem to calm down a bit. Even the lady who was praying, she calmed down a bit. There was obviously moaning going on – a lot of moaning.
Then, somebody said, in a very commanding voice, ‘Right, the driver has said…’ When he mentioned this word ‘driver’ my spirits were lifted, because up to that point I thought was a goner anyway. I thought we had hit another train. If we had hit another train, we all know how far between the driver and the front of his cab is. If we hit another train, he is dead; he is finished. We no longer have guards, so we have no guard, no driver, you’re stuck down in the tunnel, you have this black smoke pouring in, what do you do? When this guy said ‘the driver said’, I thought, ‘The driver is alive’ I managed to work that out. Maybe two or three minutes after that, this same guy said, ‘Right, we’re now going to walk through the driver’s cab, on to the track, and we’re going to walk to Russell Square.’ He said, ‘We’re now going to walk.’ I knew where I was in relation to the cab; I knew it was approximately 10 metres between me and the driver’s cab. |
This this testimony does not square very well with the idea of a bomb going off. How can a bomb supposedly wreck the whole carriage, and cause trauma throughout all six carriages, if a chap standing one or two metres away has no idea that a bomb has gone off? I suggest that this is the most important single testimony we have as to what happened on that Piuccadilly-line train. 'George' goes onto meet the driver (Ian Nairn) and then describes his walk down the tube line, to Russell Square.
www.london.gov.uk/assembly/reports/7july/vol3-individuals.pdf
London Assembly Report of the 7 July Review Committee Volume 3: Views and information from individuals, June 2006 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nick Cooper
Suspended
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 329
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| astro3 wrote: | | How can a bomb supposedly wreck the whole carriage, and cause trauma throughout all six carriages, if a chap standing one or two metres away has no idea that a bomb has gone off? I suggest that this is the most important single testimony we have as to what happened on that Piuccadilly-line train. |
It did not "wreck the whole carriage," and barring one injury to a single person in car 2, any "trauma" in the rest of the train was psychological, not physical. I would suggest that you read up a bit the accounts of war veterans, which demonstrate that the effects of explosions can be far more random than most people think. It's almost a cliché, but numerous vetrans can attest to explosions killing others next to or even either side of them, yet leaving them unscathed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prole
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 'George' wrote: | | There were people screaming. There were people saying, ‘Get the doors open. We will smash the doors.’ Somebody tried to get the door open where I had my back up against, but they soon gave up because I think the pressure was still on the actual door mechanism, and they gave up. They did get it slightly open; there was a slight change to the air that was coming in, and then they gave up. |
What doors would they be trying to force open? Why would there be 'a slight change to the air that was coming in' through a small crack in the door when we can see there are no windows or doors left on the back of the Piccadilly Line train in this image?
_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Last edited by Prole on Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
astro3
Suspended
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 274
Location: North West London
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Some minutes later, when George and his fellow front-coach survivors are sitting around outside Rusell Square tube, they discuss what had happened. George realises that no train had been hit, and instead he and others are wondering about a power surge. Train driver Ray Wright turns up and offers his view. All the explanations for what has just happened are about something outside their Underground coach:
| Quote: | | What was being bandied around by other passengers who were around – I spoke to someone and said, ‘Do you know what happened down there?’ ‘That person over there said it was a power surge.’ I said, ‘Oh, right.’ Again, I think I had realised by then that we hadn’t hit another train, because I had actually walked out through the front of the cab, so it wasn’t that, which I was pleased about. Other people had said, ‘I think something dropped off the train, and it hit the tunnel wall, and that is what caused the problem.’ Then I saw this guy standing over just to the left of the lifts. For some reason, I thought he was the driver, because he had a green, fluorescent jacket on. I thought he was the driver, so I went up to this guy, and said, ‘Excuse me,’ I said, ‘but are you a driver?’ He said, ‘Yes I’m actually a driver.’ He said, ‘I was on the train that you just came off.’ I said, ‘Oh.’ He said, ‘I’m not the driver of the train. I’m on my way to the depot. The driver of the train is still down there.’ I said, ‘Oh right. I have been told it was a power surge.’ His words to me were, ‘No, never was that a power surge. I have been involved with power surges, and with power surges you never lose the emergency lights, to start with. I just spoke to somebody and they said there had been incidents all over London – Aldgate.’ I can’t remember whether he mentioned Tavistock Square at the time; he may have done, but I can’t remember. He then said that, ‘I have just spoken to somebody who has come back from the front carriage, where you have just came from, and he said, “It’s carnage down there.”’ (Source: same as above) |
All this strongly confirms that it was only after the bus had blown up at Tavistock Square, that people started to say that bombs had gone off in the Tube. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
numeral
Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 500
Location: South London
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Has anyone come across any reference to a hole in the floor on the Piccadilly line train? From memory, I cannot recall one.
_________________
Follow the numbers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fish5133
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 2568
Location: One breath from Glory
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: Hole in floor |
|
|
If I remember correctly it was in something like the Cambridge news where a report had been given by one of the guys on the train. Dont recall it being in mainstream media.
_________________
JO911B.
"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Gobell
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 4529
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
That referred to the "event" on the Circle Line at Liverpool St / Aldgate East and was covered by the Cambridge Evening News.
| Quote: | | "The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag," he said. |
| Quote: | | "We'd been on there for a minute at most and then something happened. It was like a huge electricity surge which knocked us out and burst our eardrums. I can still hear that sound now," he said. |
| Quote: | | Reflecting on the ordeal, he said: "Out of that whole carriage, I think Crystal and I were the only ones who were not seriously injured, and I think we were nearest the bomb. |
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-0 9af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf
_________________
The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
astro3
Suspended
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 274
Location: North West London
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interview with Mr Eamon Spellman (he works at Harrods in carpet department)
Eamon Spellman caught the Piccadilly line at Arnos Grove that morning. Arriving at 8 o’clock, he and other passengers were held in the ticket foyer until 8.10, being told that there was a ‘faulty train’ at Caledonian road that morning. Then he got into the train, and after a while it was announced that that train was not going and the one on the other side of the platform was going instead, and it left at 8.20. He ended up in the second carriage. It made slow progress but there were ‘no closed stations,’ he reckoned; by the time it got to King’s Cross he saw that the platform was enormously crowded.
Concerning Rachel’s recollection of two trains passing by at Finsbury Park station too crowded to get on, before the 3rd arrived (with Eamon on it) he explained that these two, in front of his train, would have been held at eg Wood Green or Bounds Green in front of his train and so would have filled up.
In his second carriage he was sitting down and saw a ‘bright orange light’ flash very briefly, from outside the carriage, and heard a big bang, then heard a grinding sound as if the carriage were impacting the walls or roof. He tended to agree with Rachel that the carriage had been lifted up off the rails by the blast. He happened to carry a small torch with him, and when he switched this on he saw people’s faces were blackened with soot. There were no fatalities in his carriage. He gave no interview with the Sunday Herald, that quote about feeling electrocuted, etc, was not from him. No-one could get through the door into the first carriage, it was totally blocked and wrecked. They had hoped for some communication from the first carriage, but it had not happened. After being trapped in the carriage 10-20 minutes, they were rescued and arrived in King’s Cross station at 9.25.
He agreed that the live rail was switched off right away or fairly soon (This causes the emergency lights in the tunnel come on, I was told) but he wasn’t sure what had done this. For the first six months he was often not able to come to work by tube any more but has now got over things. He met Rachel North two days after the incident and together they formed King’s Cross United, for survivors, which was ‘tremendous’ therapy for persons concerned.
…………………………………………………………… …………………..
PS – The first carriage had ‘a huge hole in the floor three-quarters of the way along the carriage and the ceiling was hanging down with all the wiring exposed’ (Aaron Debnam, One Morning in July 2007, p.26) Looking from the driver’s carriage at the front, he saw how the far door was ‘damaged beyond recognition, crumpled like a piece of paper’ and blood was everywhere including the outside wall. Debnam is an ordinary cop who enters at Russell Square station and arrives at the front of the train. He describes the worst experience in his life as he sees all the dead in that carriage. It sounds like quite a few more than 26 died there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
And are you going to apologise for calling my book a work of fiction now that you have heard from another witness and had the story confirmed?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prole
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rachel wrote: | And are you going to apologise for calling my book a work of fiction now that you have heard from another witness and had the story confirmed?
|
Rachel, do you know George (I believe he's a member of KCU) and he says he was by the second set of double doors on carriage one?
_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rachel wrote: | And are you going to apologise for calling my book a work of fiction now that you have heard from another witness and had the story confirmed?
|
Rachel you have avoided this forum since you were asked questions about your book. Now your are back will you please answer them.
As readers of a book asking the writer of the book we are entitled to have simple questions answered. just as every day so many authors are asked questions from so many millions of readers.
No big deal.
Or arange for a refund. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Newsflash: You're not actually 'entitled' to anything, sunshine, from me or anyone else involved on 7/7. My single question was to astro 3 who came out with a load of libellous poorly-informed twaddle, now removed, and then found that what I said was truthful and accurate. Rhetorically, I now ask whether he feels like apologizing to me. Rhetorically, because of course he never will.
I haven't 'avoided' the forum, I've actually had more important things to do than come here and watch a bunch of strangers' wildly inaccurate speculations being posted on a conspiracy theory board. As my book was repeatedly claimed to be a work of fiction and a lie, followed by answers to
questions being demanded of me which were actually answered in the book, indicating to me that you hadn't read it or grasped the point of it at all, why would I hang around? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kbo234
Validated Poster
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rachel,
Do you still think there is absolutely NO possibility that the 4 bombers were actually patsies employed to participate in the 7/7 drill......or that 3 of them were shot at Canary Wharf at 10:30 am? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prole
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rachel wrote: | Newsflash: You're not actually 'entitled' to anything, sunshine, from me or anyone else involved on 7/7. My single question was to astro 3 who came out with a load of libellous poorly-informed twaddle, now removed, and then found that what I said was truthful and accurate. Rhetorically, I now ask whether he feels like apologizing to me. Rhetorically, because of course he never will.
I haven't 'avoided' the forum, I've actually had more important things to do than come here and watch a bunch of strangers' wildly inaccurate speculations being posted on a conspiracy theory board. As my book was repeatedly claimed to be a work of fiction and a lie, followed by answers to
questions being demanded of me which were actually answered in the book, indicating to me that you hadn't read it or grasped the point of it at all, why would I hang around? |
Rachel, what do you make of George's testimony to the GLA Review Committee? He was by the second set of double doors and, like yourself, didn't know that a bomb had exploded on the train:
| Quote: | 'George' p127:
There were people screaming. There were people saying, ‘Get the doors open. We will smash the doors.’ Somebody tried to get the door open where I had my back up against, but they soon gave up because I think the pressure was still on the actual door mechanism, and they gave up. They did get it slightly open; there was a slight change to the air that was coming in, and then they gave up. |
What doors would they be trying to force open? Why would there be 'a slight change to the air that was coming in' through a small crack in the door when we can see there are no windows or doors left on the back of the Piccadilly Line train in this image?
_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rachel wrote: | | Newsflash: You're not actually 'entitled' to anything, sunshine, from me or anyone else involved on 7/7. |
Well i'd say i was entitled to my 3.99 incl p+p back
Last edited by karlos on Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Well i'd say i was entitled to my 3.99 incl p+p back
shall i pop round on sunday and collect it? |
Are you threatening me, trying to be funny, or just plain weird? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
And for the record, the grotesque speculation about the bus driver is repellent. You are so pitiless, it comes over as inhuman. This is a real person you are talking about, as are all the people you pick over on this board, and it is sickening to see. Why would anyone who was involved want anything to do with you people? Ugh.
Bye. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prole
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rachel wrote: | And for the record, the grotesque speculation about the bus driver is repellent. You are so pitiless, it comes over as inhuman. This is a real person you are talking about, as are all the people you pick over on this board, and it is sickening to see. Why would anyone who was involved want anything to do with you people? Ugh.
Bye. |
Rachel, I've asked you this question 3 times.
What do you make of George's testimony to the GLA Review Committee? He was by the second set of double doors and, like yourself, didn't know that a bomb had exploded on the train:
| Quote: |
'George' p127:
There were people screaming. There were people saying, ‘Get the doors open. We will smash the doors.’ Somebody tried to get the door open where I had my back up against, but they soon gave up because I think the pressure was still on the actual door mechanism, and they gave up. They did get it slightly open; there was a slight change to the air that was coming in, and then they gave up. |
What doors would they be trying to force open? Why would there be 'a slight change to the air that was coming in' through a small crack in the door when we can see there are no windows or doors left on the back of the Piccadilly Line train in this image?
_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
guzman
Minor Poster
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rachel wrote: | And for the record, the grotesque speculation about the bus driver is repellent. You are so pitiless, it comes over as inhuman. This is a real person you are talking about, as are all the people you pick over on this board, and it is sickening to see. Why would anyone who was involved want anything to do with you people? Ugh.
Bye. |
When you accuse another survivor of lying then you have no right to criticise another poster for doing the same. When you promote stuff like 'Liar, Liar' that smear the name of someone who helped those very same bus survivors and when you work for companies like EMAP and IPC then its very hypocritical of you to say that you abhor the voyeuristic treatment of other human beings.
For the record I do not believe that the bus driver faked a sense of shock or anything like that and I have never said such a thing. I do genuinely believe that he was in at least mild state of shock over the explosion, however there are still many oddities in his accounts. As to your baseless sense of anger over the 'picking over' issue, well there's thousands of witness statements that are 'picked over' everyday in the police stations, the courts and the offices of solicitors throughout the country. We're not detaining people, we're not holding them without charge for up-to twenty eight days and we're not solicitors in a court of law making all kind of insinuations and accusations that could pave way to claims of perjury. So whats the big deal about examining their accounts in this little corner of the web? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | there's thousands of witness statements that are 'picked over' everyday in the police stations, the courts and the offices of solicitors throughout the country |
| Quote: |
So whats the big deal about examining their accounts in this little corner of the web? |
| Quote: | | He is not a hero he is a criminal possibly a murderer. |
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=12153&start=30
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Prole, George is a friend of mine and attended my wedding. We were in the same carriage, we have discussed how we feel about what happened to us many times.
I'm not going to sit here and discuss the worst moments of his life with you.
Last edited by Rachel on Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| x post |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rachel
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | When you accuse another survivor of lying then you have no right to criticise another poster for doing the same. When you promote stuff like 'Liar, Liar' that smear the name of someone who helped those very same bus survivors and when you work for companies like EMAP and IPC then its very hypocritical of you to say that you abhor the voyeuristic treatment of other human beings. |
Oh that is rich. You have just picked up a garbled version of what happened, as usual. I pointed out that the Guardian, and the Telegraph, and the NZ Herald and a magazine published by one of the UK's largest publishers which employs thousands of people had all researched 'Richmal's life and found witnesses describing her as having psychological problems. Million of people read those articles and I personally trust the journalists who bothered to fact check far more than inane speculation on a CT board.
Are you alleging I work for or used to work at the Guardian, NZ Herald, Telegraph and 2 magazine companies and have control over every word they write or have ever written? On the basis that I used to work in the ADVERTISING not editorial industry? How utterly ridiculous.
As to Daniel, it is a proven fact that he put long passages in his book about me, as if he had met me and been into my house and had dealings with me, as if I had told him my story and invited him into my confidence, when he has never met me.
On which basis, when asked why I had never publicly disassociated myself from this, I did publicly disassociate myself as soon as I found out what had happened, and pointed out that you misrepresent someone you have never even met in the way he did with me is dishonest, which it is.
Meanwhile, on this board there are allegations that a bus driver is a 'criminal' and 'possibly a murderer.'
Which is disgraceful, and clearly libellous.
What is the point of trying to talk to you, when you twist everything and come up with such rubbish? You are not investigators, you are not professionals, you have no professional ethical standards to hold you to account, you are people on the internet picking over a tragedy and coming to some foul and completely unsupported conclusions, upsetting and libelling real people who have suffered as you do so.
edited for spelling and clarity |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
guzman
Minor Poster
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rachel wrote: | | Quote: | | there's thousands of witness statements that are 'picked over' everyday in the police stations, the courts and the offices of solicitors throughout the country |
| Quote: |
So whats the big deal about examining their accounts in this little corner of the web? |
| Quote: | | He is not a hero he is a criminal possibly a murderer. |
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=12153&start=30
:roll: |
That statement is not mine and I don't agree that he could be a murderer. But, again you didn't answer the question which wasn't defending a single post by someone else that made an accusation but was asking why can't we examine, or 'pick over' as you like to say, people's testimony.
If you have a problem with that post then you take issue with just that post or poster, there were plenty of other posts that didn't accuse him of being a criminal or murderer yet you decided to lump all the posts discussing witness testimony together as one great offense.
I notice you ignore all the other points I made which show that your complaints are against a reflection of your own behaviour
| Quote: | | When you accuse another survivor of lying then you have no right to criticise another poster for doing the same. When you promote stuff like 'Liar, Liar' that smear the name of someone who helped those very same bus survivors and when you work for companies like EMAP and IPC then its very hypocritical of you to say that you abhor the voyeuristic treatment of other human beings. |
I was not defending the character of a particular poster, but I was trying to defend the forum as whole when you said 'you people' and I'm pointing out the double standards shown by yourself. Although you accuse Daniel Obachike of lying and insinuate a great deal more as far as I'm aware he's never said a bad thing against you, but when someone accuses you of lying or even less you expect the posts/topic to be deleted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Chat
Usergroups
Calendar
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
