How to make water burn

[James C]

Let's hope that cold fusion is a way forward.

[James C]

[Andrew Johnson]

HHO Gas may very well NOT be free or zero point energy for all I know.

As a technology, it looks extremely interesting and the video at the end discusses its use in car engines for producing on demand combustible gas from water - looks pretty important to me.

You're right - I haven't read every word of all the posts. However, I have tried to present similar related evidence to try and offer a balance of argument.

[James C]

[catfish]

Hey sceptics!

I can make 1.5 litres of gas a minute with 1.24 volts.

I make the gas from water.

Water falls from the sky.

I don't want any money.

I have posted some stuff at the yahoo group hydroxy where I'm called catfishdogegg.

Don't listen to James C!

Please PM or e-mail me for more info

[James C]

Hi Catfish,

Have typed hydroxy into Yahoo groups and nothing exists. What's the actual link.

Or perhaps you could just reveal all here. What do you do with the gas? Perhaps you could show us some pictures of your gas making machine.

Please don't be as secretive as all the other promoters of this technology.

Something I would like to ask. What is the electrical current you are using to achieve the creation of this gas and therefore how many KWh of electricity are you using?

There is no dispute about the fact you can make flammable gas from water, only that the actual calorific value of that gas will be less than the amount of energy you are putting in to create it. Do you know for instance what this gas actually is and what is its available energy content?

This is the central argument of this thread!

Indeed, water falls from the sky but it is a very valuable resource and to use it in millions of cars will have massive implications for our ability to stay alive. Electricity however does not fall from the sky. It is made using fossil fuels. How do you make your gas when you have a power cut?

Please answer these questions. I am as genuinely intrigued by this stuff as anybody but no one ever gives any proof because they don't actually know.

[blackcat]

[James C]

Catfish,

Your experiment is nothing new and nothing special. Sorry to be so blunt.

You are not getting something for nothing. You are using electricty to convert water into another more usable form.

But where do you get your electricty from? Is electricity production environmentally friendly? NO it is very much not, so your new gas cannot be defined as green unless of course you source electricty created from wind turbines, which will augment your case nicely, However, this argument has been going on for years. It's nothing new. Nothing suppressed. Nothing sinister created by the world's power holders. Nothing special.

And while we are on the subject, how do you think all the materials you used in your experiment were manufactured - all the O-rings and bits of metal and glass? Could it be by using fossil fuels?

Unless the whole process uses free energy right across the experiment then the argument falls flat on its face.

[catfish]

Please try this stuff out before you debunk. It's true that I have done nothing new, people have been saying this for years.
The device runs off a 12 volt supply and draws 1 tenth of an amp.
I got an old honda lawnmower engine and had it running for about 20 seconds purely on this gas, I think I've broken it and had to dismantle most of the carb. But with another engine coming this week I will have the machine running an alternator providing it's own power.

Just a quick point, generating (collecting) electricity is basically achieved by spinning metal between a bunch of magnets. The world is a ball of spinning metal between a couple of super magnets. Feel the force!

Was it not Shell who reported a profit margin of $2,000,000 per hour last year! These people have a serious interest in keeping this info from us.

[James C]

[catfish]

Not convinced that James C doesn't work for BP?

Please, anyone with an open mind and genuinely interested in running their house and car on rain water, PM or e-mail me and I'll tell you what I know.

Bear in mind though that I don't have any money, I don't want any money, and have no ulterior motive! If this frightens you then you haven't seen my beard!

Catfish out!

[James C]

[catfish]

[James C]

I have no desire to burn you as a witch, I happen to admire your demonstration of this technology. I love talking about this sort of stuff and please don't take it personally.

My point is simple, the gas produced here is not free, You are using electrolysis to seperate the hydrogen and oxygen atoms to create a flammable gas. However, and in response to your previous post, this gas is not pure hydrogen. That is why you can see the flame. This is Browns gas or HHO gas, call it what you will.

This technology has been around a long time and patents for water welding torches go back to the 60's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_torch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO

Nice talking to you though. The 9/11 cause needs passionate people.

[catfish]

Stanley Meyers was using Brown's Gas, that's why you can see the flame.

If a car can be powered on this gas then any cars alternator can put out the 1/10th of an amp required for efficient electrolysis, mine puts out 90 amps.

There's no secret to my design, copied off a joe cell,the rings are like the rings of a tree, perfect for maximum gas output, and I found out today that similar output can be got from a much smaller device. So a bunch in series may be enough to power a car. Fingers crossed.

Note: With two days of continual use the welder had not used any noticeable amount of water
Also when held against stainless steel the flame collects water, it's reported on hydroxy that the exhaust from engines run on HHO is pure water.
If the exhaust were connected to the cell it would top itself up.

This is only a secret if people keep it a secret.

[catfish]

If you've looked at the welder and think it's amazing then you may be amazed to know that the same amount of gas can be made with just two lucozade bottles of water and much smaller stainless tubes.

Also we've made a water booster for our cars a passat and audi coupe. The passat is an old F reg diesel and is producing exhaust gasses like fresh mountain air, isn't struggling like it did (poor old girl) and uses noticably less fuel.

The real daddy is the petrol audi coupe 2.3 litre which has unexplicably gone 60 miles on £5.60 and still has some left in the tank. And it was Optimax fuel so I never even got a litre for my quid!

This gas can run a car. I want to share this with as many people as I can before I am stopped which is inevitable. The system like the one we've made will cost you less than a hundred quid!

Get in touch by email or PM. I'm gonna tour the country in the next few weeks and I'll come see anyone who is interested in this and show them how to stick two fingers up to these greedy oil smurfs!

Remember I don't want any money I just want to share this technology, and show people how easy it is, so they can do it for themselves.

James C, I look forward to your e-mail because I'm sure this will fascinate you. Water burns.

[catfish]

You may think I'm banging on about this but you know I must have convinced twenty people about the truth of 9/11 already because I start by showing them how my car runs on water.

It's amazing how people are much easier to convince about government conspiracy if you show them how they've been lied to about water.

I sincerely believe this is on-topic and I hope you guys will get in touch with me and see this as a valuable tool in waking up our hibernating population.

Dave

[paul wright]

I still haven't the slightest idea of the technology, but I want my micra running on water

[Solomon]

James C,

I'd be very interested to hear what you make of this:
Free Energy: The Race To Zero Point :
We live in a vast sea of Energy; everything, every atom, every sub-atomic particle is in constant motion,
spinning eternally. Even in the cold, dark, absolute vacuum of empty space there exists what NEW Physics
is calling the "Quantum Vacuum Flux".

It is the "Ether" of the Ages, the "Life Force Energy" of Metaphysics.
http://www.3dstats.com/cgi-bin/cft.cgi?usr=00001155F0082

The Big money men, J.P. Morgan and the like, screwed poor old Tesla into the ground.... grrrrr
________
Bluetec
________
Hotels in mexico

[catfish]

I just realised I'd put the video of the water flame up but not how to make it, described below is what I and a couple of friends have made.

This was my post to the group hydroxy at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hydroxy/message/52 describing how I made it:

3 weeks ago a few friends and I decided to make a joe cell...

INTRODUCTION
The results were fasinating, so we went on to make an electrolysis
unit of the same design. We decided as patience is required to make
joe cells, we would continue with the joe cell experiment and move on
to some 'basic' electrolysis in the hope that we could use the extra
current from a cars alternator to improve efficiency (like the hydro
boost system, but bigger!)

316 STAINLESS STEEL
Luckily, we know lots of people that use 316L stainless steel, so off
we went to raid a few scrap bins from local companies...

STAINLESS PARTS LIST:
1 x 11" by 5" Tube
1 x 7" by 4" Tube
2 x 7" by 3" Tube
1 x 7" by 2" Tube
1 x 13" Circle 5mm Thick
1 x 3m threaded bar
32 x Nuts for the threaded bar
4 x bolts for feet (on the base)
1 x massive bolt for the negative electrode
1 x 12" square of 1mm sheet
2 x 3mm by wahtever (it is scrap) plates to use as lids

RUBBER:
Solid O-RING Rubber (spacing tubes)
5mm deep O-RING for the base bolt
3mm Neoprene Sheet
1mm Reinforced Rubber

HYDRAULICS
High Pressure Tube and Connectors
Pressure Gauge 1bar
Pressure Cut Off Switch 15 psi
Gas Tap
Acetylene Torch (to use the gas for welding and cutting)

POWER SYSTEM
1 x pair of jump leads or cable with crocodile clips
1 x rubbish car battery

ELECTROLYTE
water
caustic soda (99.99% sodium hydroxide)

HOW TO BUILD (in brief)
The tubes were positioned on the large stainless circle base, marked
and removed, the circle base was then drilled and tapped to accomodate
the various pipe fittings.
A piece of stainless sheet was cut to make a star shape which is used
to hold the inner tube to the centre bolt (which is also the negative
terminal) see joe cell designs...
The concentric tubes were then fitted together and held in place with
small pieces of solid o-ring rubber. 5" outer tube, with the 4", 3"
and 2" tubes inside, leaving 4cm of free space underneath.

The spare 3" tube is just a flashback bubbler, probably the most
important thing in the system, designed like a bong. The gas coming in
bubbles through the water and the gas going out doesn't. Flashbacks do
occur as acetylene torch arresters do not quite stop the Browns Gas
(Hydroxy, Oxyhydros, HHO...)

The threaded bar was cut into equal lengths (4 x 13" and 4 x 11") and
the whole system is then bolted together. The pressure gauge is fitted
to the bubbler, along with a tube to the acetylene torch.

The cutting torch is amazing...

RESULTS
We bubbled the gas into a full bottle of inverted water to measure the
displacement and therefore the volume of gas produced Wink

Using a current limiting (brand new) power supply and a high quality
(brand new) multimeter we discovered we were producing between 60 and
100 litres of gas per hour with between 12 and 20amps at 12 volts. The
results varied tremendously as you can see, based on electrolyte
concentrations and temperature, the warmer the better.

These results seemed quite promising so we asked an electrical
engineer to do the same power/production test with us and he concluded
the following:

60 litres = 100Wh = 1.6Wh per litre

This is totally rounded down at every stage to give the worst possible
results(ie worst litre production figures used)

Then I noticed Kanarev's results for highly efficient electrolysis:

1000 litres = 4 KWh = 4Wh per litre

FORKLIFT TRUCK
We fitted the gas genertor to a forklift truck, set up to run on
propane. The truck tried to start but didn't seem to have enough gas.
To solve this problem we safely filled a propane can with Brown's Gas
and then reconnected it to the truck. It ran really smooth!

WELDING AND CUTTING
The flame is like a laser, ultra sharp piont and very controllable.
It is true what you read on the web, the flame is not that hot but
when it hits the surface of something it reaches whatever temperature
is required to melt, burn, etc...

CONCLUSION
At least 50% of the people involved have high level degrees and other
qualifications suitable for this kind of experimentation, but to be
honest, no one thought it would work so well... The physics books must
be full of lies! And it easy to see why, if every physics, maths or
chemistry student new that you could 'easily' run a car, cook and heat
your house with water, with no environmental impact and save money, no
one would be pissing about with GREENPEACE and FRIENDS OF THE EARTH...

ARMCHAIR SCIENTISTS
If anyone decides to post negative remarks regarding this project,
please remember, we have done it, it works, it has been checked and
for less than a days work and £200 max, you could help to save the
planet too!

Go on, have a go!


Update:

Since making the torch we have discovered that much smaller tubes can be used. If you use just three tubes of 75mm length, with the biggest diameter being 50mm, then two smaller concentric tubes with no more than 2mm gap between the walls.
Put spacers in between the tubes so they cannot touch each other.
Connect a wire to the bottom of your centre tube
Connect a wire to the top of your outside tube
Now put the tubes in a container tall enough to cover the top of the tubes, like a coffee jar, then fill it with water
Connect the outside tube to the positive of a 12v car battery
Connect the inside to the negative

For instant results you can add a little rock salt or pure caustic soda but with patience the water will produce gradually more and more gas without electrolyte, but if it's slow use salt. I keep meaning to use an acid electrolyte but I've only just remembered it now.

Two of the above devices in Lucozade pop bottles were producing the same amount of gas as the big torch.

For a simple proof you can do the same as above but just use one tube a jar and a stainless bolt, connect the bolt as negative and tube as positive. This is small but you will get bubbles that you can explode with a lighter!

Use 316 food grade stainless steel, this has very little magnetism which helps the electrolysis process.

Thanks for your interest and I really do hope you give it a try, the hydroxy yahoo group seems to be disinformation, they're obsessed with flat plates but I promise you tubes are MUCH better.

Other good stuff is on http://jnaudin.free.fr/ but I haven't made any of it yet.

[blackcat]

Catfish - you have titled this thread "Live for free" - does this mean that the gas (hydrogen?) produced is going to provide (much?) more energy than what was used in obtaining it via the electricity used?

[yochanan]

Catfish – Just to clarify are you claiming that this device you have made is producing more energy out than in (over-unity)? Have you made a closed loop system, what I mean is have you made a system that powers itself once you get it running, and that has an excess amount of energy?

What you’re claiming is very remarkable and I agree with you that the text books are full of lies. I watched a documentary from Google video the other day that actually pointed out that the older science books did in-fact say that you could get more energy out than in with some electrolysis processes.

I would try to build one of these devices but I haven’t the first clue about any of this. You said you were planning a tour of the UK, are you thinking of coming anywhere near Great Yarmouth? I would love to see this process in action, all the best,
Yochanan

[kbo234]

It sounds like a remarkable device but the figures you have posted show less energy out than electrical energy put in.

Taking the lower limits:
60 litres/hour produces 100Wh of energy, but 12 Amps at 12 Volts for 1 hour uses 144Wh of energy so energy out is less than energy put in. In fact the 'efficiency' of this system is 100/144=0.69 or approximately 70%.

If your numbers are correct then although the system might be very useful and, when combined with other systems in running a car (for instance), significantly improve the performance of that system.....it does not amout to 'free energy' as far as I can see.

[Abandoned Ego]

[TimmyG]

wow. sounds really good this catfish. well impressed.
really wish I had the time and the know how to build something like this.


even if its not free energy.. it looks like you've managed to make your car run on less petrol which is well clever. wow

is the cost of the electricity used cheaper than the cost of the petrol you've saved?

[catfish]

The electricity used is between 5 and 10 amps off my alternator which is powered by the engine. As soon as I produce enough gas to power the engine without petrol, it'll basically be free energy or over-unity. Although I feel these terms are misleading. Is a tree over-unity?

As a side note I did an emmisions test at the local garage with the cell attached and it didn't even register, the guy thought the machine was broken until I turned the cell off and it went back to being a nasty polluting hunk of tin again!

To answer abandoned ego, with the torch after the gas is burnt it reverts back to water. We're led to believe that the water cycle goes, evaporation (how come it's not hot?), condensation, back to water as rain.

Through my experiments I present another theory: The salt water in the sea is electrolysised by the electro-magnetic currents pulsing through the earth, this produces the gas I am making, this gas travels to the sun where it burns and is reverted back to water which supplies the solar system.
I propose that you cannot destroy water you can only change it's state.

I urge everyone to look at pond foggers, these make a heavy mist like that which you see in the morning hugging the ground, pond foggers use ultra-sonic frequencies to split water into yet another state, a use for which I'm determined to find.

So I'm suggesting water cannot be burnt you can only change it's state. The exhaust from a water powered car will be water, so if I feed the exhaust back into the cell I'm not losing anything.

[blackcat]

[blackcat]

[catfish]

[yochanan]

Ok, I’m going to get a science teacher at college to have a look at this. Catfish - is there anything else I will need to know, or is your post (Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:30 am) Sufficient enough to reproduce this experiment?