Heil...Guardian's Zionist writings

[blackbear]

Blair isn't to blame for Islamist terror

Denis MacShane.....

Ten years ago, in November 1997, 50 Swiss tourists rose early to visit the Valley of the Kings across the Nile from Luxor in Egypt. Suddenly from the hills came a group of Islamists. They shot, disembowelled and decapitated the tourists.

It was just one of the many forerunners of 9/11 in 2001 in New York, 7/7 in 2005 in London or 11/M as the Spanish call the train bombings in Madrid in 2004. Today, as the killing in the name of extremist political Islamist ideology increases in tempo and intelligence agencies struggle to disarm those promised a passage to heaven if they blow themselves and others up, the earlier wave of militant Islamist killing can be overlooked.

One of the constant lies of the current debate over terrorism is that it is all the fault of George Bush and Tony Blair. The best-known Swiss in Britain today is Tariq Ramadan, the most interesting of Europe's political Islamists. He wrote recently that the 'invasion of Iraq, blind support for the insane policies of George Bush, British silence on the oppression of the Palestinians have a direct bearing on the deep discontent shared by many Muslims towards the West in general, and towards Britain in particular'.

Ramadan's views are standard tropes for many on the liberal-left in Europe. Not just the left. The new centre-right government in Poland wants to leave Iraq and David Cameron said that Britain should not drop the idea of intervention. But as the families of those killed a decade ago remember those dreadful murders on the Nile, can Bush and Blair be blamed as the inspirers of the killing of Swiss tourists? Or what in 1995 inspired the Paris Metro bombing which killed eight? The 1995 Islamist campaign of violence in France was financed from London by the Algerian Islamist fundamentalist Rachid Ramda. British ministers, lawyers and judges protected Ramda from French justice for a full decade. Finally in 2005, Ramda was sent back to face the justice he was long protected from. He has just been sentenced to life.

Then comes the argument that Osama bin Laden was, as London's mayor, Ken Livingstone, puts it 'a simple businessman until he met the CIA' which encouraged him to launch jihad in Afghanistan against the dying Soviet empire. But this does not explain why Islamists killed, in cold blood, Anwar Sadat, the courageous Egyptian president who went to the Knesset to talk peace with Israel long before Blair was in Parliament and before the Soviets arrived in Kabul.

So if we follow history's thread back we have to leave the contemporisation of the debate. Something deeper is going on. To discuss this in religious terms is repugnant for many. But history is full of faiths sanctioning political murders to advance a cause.

The violence of faith takes many forms. A university report has just been published on the material available in British mosques, Muslim schools and bookshops. It reveals a violent brew of anti-semitism, misogyny and homophobia which inculcates a loathing for fellow citizens who do not conform to the rules of Islamist ideologues.

The report scrupulously quotes extracts from books and pamphlets widely available in mosque bookshops. The response of the Muslim Council of Britain was to attack the research. Instead of calling on mosques to empty themselves of such hate material, the MCB called for the report to be ignored. This arrogant dismissal does no service to Muslims.

Some are trying to move forward. As a young militant, Tariq Ramadan made statements on Jews, gays and women which do not read well today. But at a recent debate he supported Israel's right to exist. Citing the example of Turkey's ruling Law and Development party which has its roots in political Islam, Ramadan held up the tantalising prospect of Islamist politics leaving behind its support for words and acts that have caused so much damage to Muslims over the past century.

It is not too late. Ramadan's language is elusive, debating with him is like trying to pick up mercury with a fork. At an Oxford University seminar he is the acceptable face of Islamism. But until the hate material is removed from sale and democratically accountable Muslim leaders emerge to contest the theologians of terrorism, anti-semitism, misogyny and homophobia in Riyadh, Cairo, Qatar and Tehran, the birth of democratic European Islamist politics is unlikely.

Comments..

ellis

It's worth reading just to check off the rhetorical tricks and special pleadings. MacShane is simply an anti-semite with the twist being that the semites in question are Arabs. It really is curious that the Member of Parliament for Rotheram has nothing better to do than to whip up support for the Likud foreign policy and poison relations with muslims.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2209152,00.html

[paul wright]

Yes. I noticed this. This guy is a complete subservient whore. But aren't all Labour politicians? What's new about it?

[Mark Gobell]

I was reflecting today on this drip fed rhetoric that has it's simplistic and camouflaged roots in the politics of the state-run playground, for the drip fed masses.

I recall a specific case.

The precedent that has since been appropriated as "the convenient and timely justification of a certain Home Secretary."

Dr. Reid, the dove not the hawk, announced in the wake of the fiasco that was 10.8 that he and therefore, "we", the entire government since May 1997, had only just discovered that the roots of Islamo-bombing in the UK, pre-dated 9/11.

In a trice, any counter argument that centred on the aftermath of 9/11, was, by edict and thus, by case history, rendered null and void.

They started it. We didn't.

The playing of the trump card was mysteriously delayed from it's more obvious stage that was Iraq 2003.

That cloud of state sanctioned lies had legs yet. It would run and run and run you see.

Until the utter depravity that was 10.8 demanded the trump card.

Henceforth, in the mind of the state, we were persuaded to negate the contemporary blow-back argument in favour of a little known event that was mercifully "sniffed out" by our security services, who intervened on a "tip off" about Birmingham in 2000.

They started it. In Birmingham in 2000. You see.

The then, transient and not forgotten incumbent at the now, fragmented Home Office could be forgiven his proclamation, simply because it was before "his time" and maybe, it wasn't his assessment anyway. We'll probably never know.

Or will we.

The idea that the MI5 sting that was Moinul Abedin would somehow be shoved into Reid's unsuspecting in-tray, to provide the political raison d'etre of his tenure as the democratically elected, agent provocateur and then political chief of domestic terror, may have, understandably, escaped him.

Plausible deniability of the trump card that was designed and held back for such an event that was the farce of 10.8

The "ace in the hole" that was the miraculous, justice dodging Dr Faisal Mostafa, Ph.D, (Chemistry), or "Molten Lava" as MI5 called him, who was the tutor of Mr Abedin's brother, as well as the inspiration for his siblings incarceration also proved to be the latent justification for the War on Terror, that, somehow, we all missed.

Funny that it was hardly mentioned at the time.

Six years it took, for some oblique reference.

Six years into a man's sentence of 20 years.

And for what ?

To provide the reason, our reason, that the "event" in Birmingham in November 2000, orchestrated by the ever so suspect Doctor and his MI5 handlers, would, indeed prove for the dissenters and the desperate state alike, that "they" cast the first stone.

I wrote to Mr Abedin a while back.

"Pivoting Dancer" replied. Candidly.

My second letter went unanswered.

The war goes on . . .

[John White]

Dbl topic merged: and lousy title

[festival of snickers]

i asked this forum days ago about the persecution in Iran of people of the bahai faith

i think they said nothing

the Albanians slaughtered Serbs in ww2 i think

clinton bombed Serbs in 1999 along with help from uk and nato

[festival of snickers]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3254890.stm


Bosnian Muslims committed war crimes including a ritual beheading, the Hague tribunal was told at the start of a landmark trial.

Two ex-army commanders are the first senior Bosnian Muslims to appear before the tribunal.

They are charged with killing at least 200 Bosnian Croat and Serb civilians in central Bosnia-Hercegovina in 1993.

Ex-General Enver Hadzihasanovic, 53, and Colonel Amir Kubura, 39, deny charges including murder.


This trial...will show war crimes were committed by both sides of the conflict
Ekkehard Withopf
Prosecutor
A third man named in the original indictment, General Mehmed Alagic, died in March this year.

Prosecutors claim most of the killings were carried out by foreign Muslim fighters, known as mujahideen, but the accused failed to prevent the deaths.

[karlos]

[festival of snickers]

http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/077.shtml

Bosnian Muslim War Crimes: World War II
By Carl Savich

Bosnian Muslim War Crimes

Part 1: Atrocities against Christians in the 1990s (includes 3 videos)

Part 2: Bosnian Muslim Contribution to the Holocaust in WWII
Participated in the Holocaust

Bosnian Muslim war crimes did not begin with the 1992-1995 Bosnian civil war. Bosnian Muslims leaders had requested that Adolf Hitler make them a part of the Nazi New order in Europe. Pursuant to this, the Bosnian Muslims formed two Nazi SS Divisions. Bosnian Muslims played a role in the Holocaust and the genocide committed against Serbs during World War II in the NDH, the Croat Nazi puppet state. The “architect of the Holocaust”, Heinrich Himmler was filmed and photographed with the Bosnian Muslim Nazi SS troops. Himmler was committed to forming a Bosnian Muslim statelet under Nazi control.

The Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal declared that the SS was a criminal organization and found that all members of the Waffen SS were guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity. The Bosnian Muslims had two Nazi SS Waffen SS Divisions during World War II, the 13th Waffen SS Division “Handzar/Handschar and the 23rd Waffen SS Division “Kama”. There were approximately 20,000 Bosnian Muslim Nazi SS troops in these two SS Divisions.

This is what the Nuremberg Tribunal held regarding the Waffen SS:

"The SS was utilized for purposes which were criminal under the Charter involving the persecution and extermination of the Jews, brutalities and killings in concentration camps, excesses in the administration of the occupied territories, the administration of the slave labor program and the mistreatment and murder of prisoners of war.....In dealing with the SS the Tribunal includes all persons who had been officially accepted as members of the SS including the members of the Allgemeine SS, members of the Waffen SS, members of the SS Totenkopf Verbaende, and the members of any of the different police forces who we

[festival of snickers]

[festival of snickers]

[quote="blackbear"]Blair isn't to blame for Islamist terror

Denis MacShane.....

Ten years ago, in November 1997, 50 Swiss tourists rose early to visit the Valley of the Kings across the Nile from Luxor in Egypt. Suddenly from the hills came a group of Islamists. They shot, disembowelled and decapitated the tourists.

blair and clinton bombed the serbs in kosovo in 1999 and supported the kla-the kla are or were muslim terrorists in bosnia or kosovo

[festival of snickers]

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&cof=S%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Femperos-clothe s.com%3B&domains=emperors-clothes.com&q=tony+blair+kla&btnG=Search&sit esearch=emperors-clothes.com

[Mark Gobell]

If anyone would like to write a prisoner incarcerated in the UK, you first have to request contact via the Prisoner Location Service

http://www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/adviceandsupport/keepingintouch/loca tionservice/

They will forward your details to the prisoner and if they agree to correspond, you will get their details sent by reply.

[blackbear]

Hello dh....338 comments.......learn from the racists.

Mark...thanks for your posts.....maybe another one:

An attack on liberty
The case of the 'Lyrical Terrorist' shows how far our freedom has been eroded by recent legislation
Inayat Bunglawala

The conviction last Thursday of the self-styled "Lyrical Terrorist", 23-year old Samina Malik, marks a further dramatic erosion of our liberties in the United Kingdom.

In the wake of the guilty verdict, several newspapers printed extracts from her attempts at poetry, including gems such as How to Behead, and The Living Martyrs. The court had heard that on an online social networking group known as Hi-5 Samina Malik had listed her interests as "helping the mujahideen any way I can" and, in the section for her favourite TV shows, she entered "watching videos by Muslim brothers in Iraq, yep, the beheading ones".

However, Malik was also said to have downloaded some material from the internet including The al-Qaida Manual and The Mujahideen Poisons Handbook - it took me less than a minute to find both of these using Google, along with a document entitled How To Win Hand-to-Hand Fighting.

Although she was acquitted of the more serious charge under section 57 of the Terrorism Act of possessing an item for a "purpose" connected with terrorism, she was still convicted under section 58 of the same act which states:

A person commits an offence if ... he collects or makes a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism

It hardly needs stating how incredibly broadly this act can be interpreted. The act does allow a defence for a person to download such material if the person can "prove that he had a reasonable excuse for his action or possession". Evidently, the court felt that Samina Malik had no such reasonable excuse and as the Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, of Scotland Yard, remarked after the trial: "Merely possessing this material is a serious criminal offence."

It is to be hoped that this case may yet serve as a demonstration of just how badly-framed some of our anti-terror legislation actually is. In a truly free society, it should not be a crime to merely download and read such material.

During her trial, Malik argued that she was not a terrorist and that she had chosen the online moniker "Lyrical terrorist" simply because it had "sounded cool" and that her poetry, online remarks and downloading of internet material was undertaken in an attempt to attract male admirers.

Her story is quite plausible and I am sure there must be many more like her. Countless young British Muslims visit popular internet sites such as YouTube every day to obtain footage of what is really happening in Iraq and come across sickening material such as US soldiers deliberately killing a clearly wounded Iraqi and then appearing to gloat over the murder, a US soldier in Iraq using a loudhailer to taunt Muslims with his expletive-filled mocking of the Islamic call to prayer, footage graphically showing the enormous and terrible impact of the US-led war on Iraqi civilians (this last one has the haunting Manic Street Preachers hit, If you tolerate this your children will be next ... as its soundtrack). If you have not already done so, then do try viewing some of this material - there is a lot more out there - and ask yourself whether, if you were a 23-year-old it might not also have prompted dark thoughts to cross your own mind, however fleetingly, and perhaps even have led you to download similar material from the internet.

Samina has been put under house arrest for the time being, but she must return for sentencing on December 6. As one blogger noted, it will be interesting to see if the judge chooses to make an example of her in order to discourage others or if he chooses instead to make an example of what is undoubtedly a bad and illiberal law whose primary purpose is to punish people for having the wrong thoughts.

There would appear to be something preposterously wrong with our criminal justice system if nearly five years after the Iraq war was launched and hundreds of thousands of wholly unnecessary deaths later, Tony Blair is able to just walk away from his responsibility for the ongoing carnage and unbelievably emerge as a Peace Envoy to the region, while a foolish young woman who did not harm anyone now faces a maximum 10-year term in prison for what can only be described as a thought crime.

288 comments...

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/inayat_bunglawala/2007/11/an_attac k_on_liberty.html

[rodin]

Yoo gotta be worried about thousands of illegal immigrants in security posts. Bet most come from the 'Eastern Bloc'

Oligarchistan

Beats art students

[festival of snickers]

Rushdie supported the 1999 NATO bombing of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia to stop the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, leading the leftist Tariq Ali to label Rushdie and other "warrior writers" as "the belligerati'".[28]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie#Religious_and_political_be liefs

sir salman seems like a terrorist to me

was ethnic cleansing even proved?harold pinter condemned the war

[festival of snickers]

Salman Rushdie himself, in a letter to editor to The Times complained of what he believed was Yusuf's attempts to "rewrite his past," and calls his claims of innocence "rubbish."[19

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens%27_comments_about_Salman_Rush die

salman says cat stevens is a pussbag-hes a peace train phony

[Mark Gobell]

I was researching the origins of the Manchester Document yesterday.

Not having heard of this term before, I thought I'd check it out.

You probably won't have heard of the Manchester Document as it's more commonly known as the Afghan Manual or:

[festival of snickers]

i edited other post to

why do you assume i agree with everything usa or israel has done?

you're British? or some Muslim refugee who hates uk? uk has done some * too

as far as im concerned you're a troll