Hitchens vs Galloway

[Ally]

I didn't manage to listen but have read many reviews on the Net.

Why does Galloway peddle the arab blowback theories around 9.11 and not address the core truth behind the phony war on terror?

He could so easily rip Hitchens a new * by exposing 9/11 and Hitchens being an apologist for mass murderers.

Very limited debate it seemed. Galloway had a huge platform to address America from instead he went for a show man pillow fight with that sleazeball Hitchens.

Has anyone discussed 9/11 or 7/7 with Galloway?

[xmasdale]

I didn't hear this Galloway - Hitchens debate, but Ian Henshall sent me the following which suggests, from his interview with Alex Jones on Prison Planet at least, that he is moving closer to our position. Though I can't help but remember hearing him say clearly at the Alternative G8 in Edinburgh "Osama did it".

Perhaps Osama did have some involvement, but who was behind him and who facilitated the attacks?

Noel


Dear Noel,

Don't bother to read all this, the point is that Galloway is stressing the
danger of a fabricated terrorist incident to justify an Iran invasion. I
think we can count this as a qualified success for our movement.

Ian H


>George Galloway MP: Elements Within Government Using Terror Provocation
Tactics
>
>Steve Watson & Alex Jones / Prisonplanet | September 13 2005
>
>On Friday 9th September Alex Jones was joined on air by member of
Parliament and prominent antiwar activist George Galloway for a riveting one
on one interview.
>
>Mr Galloway discussed the rising tide of anti-Iraq war protest, the
snarling Neo-Cons' plan for world war and the possibility of staged
government terror attacks to justify the invasion of more countries.
>
>Prisonplanet.tv subscribers click here to listen to the interview in its
entirety
>
>The Emerging Controlled Police State
>
>Mr Galloway kicked things off by asserting that the recent purposeful botch
job on the part of FEMA in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, and the heavy
handed police state like crackdown in New Orleans has backfired on the
political elite.
>
>"The United States today looks like a country run by dangerous malevolent
incompetants...There is a stain on the reputation of your great country and
by association mine" Said Mr Galloway.
>
>We have extensively covered the purposeful incompetence of the federal
response in New Orleans and the jackbooted thuggery that is being advertised
all over the nightly news, forwarding the agenda to once again normalize
such repressive authoritative behaviour. Mr Galloway described the aftermath
of Katrina as:
>
>"A bizarre catalogue of incompetence and malevolence and racism and all the
worst things about the US today... and now as we are beginning to pick up,
there is more to it than meets the eye and it may be being seized upon as a
big diversion. If it was it hasn't worked, it just compounds people's
feeling that the US is run by these ghoulish, Marie Antoinette incompetents."
>
>Mr Galloway went on to describe the state that the Neo-Con greed and war
machine has got itself into:
>
>"On the surface they appear to be gliding serenely like a swan but
underneath they are paddling like hell just to stay afloat because they run
the risk of being thrown out."
>
>But Mr Galloway was also quick to point out that you cannot slip a
cigarette paper between the two opposition parties both in the United States
and Great Britain. There is no opposition, both countries operate under a
duopoly, both parties run along parallel lines. We have to constructively
approach how we vote and who we empower.
>
>Mr Galloway's Respect Party, whom he represents in the London Constituency
of Bethnal Green is an example of such a constructive movement. Respect
knows it is never going to win a majority vote but is there simply to keep
the powers that be in line, bringing them to book so to speak on important
and far reaching issues that may otherwise go relatively unchallenged.
>
>"The danger is that when the state begins to be such a miserable abysmal
failure that people turn not to progressive forces of leadership but to the
kind of brown shirted aggressive forces...".Galloway comments.
>
>Government Engineered Terrorism
>
>Previously Mr Galloway has suggested that there is a very real danger of
the government engineering a situation where terror attacks can be
manufactured and seized upon to forward the pre-planned agenda abroad and at
home. On Friday Mr Galloway elaborated on these comments:
>
>"There is a very real danger because you have elements within the state,
you have the Richard Pearle 'axis of evil' snarling 'you're next' at this
country or that country and yet the circumstance on the ground, the
political collapse of the Bushites in the United States, the resistance in
Iraq having taken such a terrible toll...is making the idea of another war
simply ridiculous...and yet there are those in this Neo-Con, Zionist,
Christian Fundamentalist axis that really are itching to get as much of this
agenda pushed on whilst they still have the reins of power. So you cannot
discount some kind of provocation being staged by those elements who want to
propel the US into an even more disastrous invasion"
>
>Mr Galloway suggests that it is not beyond the realms of imagination for a
situation to arise where the power hungry elite in the US uses staged
provocation to drag Iran into a geopolitical set-to, using Israel as the
hammer. If this were to happen, the consequences could be as far reaching as
to start a third world war which would be devastating for humanity.
>
>This would provide the authorities with the perfect excuse to set up a
police state domestically to regulate the activities of everyone and have
complete control.
>
>"...That's right, it's Orwellian, it's 1984, the permanent division of the
world into warring blocs, for the profit of a few at the cost of the misery
of the many, and we have to refuse this in every way we can." Galloway states.
>
>Of course, the past masters of government sponsored terrorism were the
Zionists, who created the condition in the Arab countries, and in some
European countries to stampede the Jewish populations out of the countries
they had been living in for many hundreds years and get them into a Zionist
state. Galloway comments:
>
>"Suddenly Jewish people who had been the victims of Christian persecution
suddenly saw their Synagogues being blown up, their countries being attacked
and all kinds of provocations being staged so packed their bags and moved to
occupied Palestine, then to be called Israel."
>
>The Neo-Con War mentality
>
>It's well documented that the United States has adopted such provocation
"dirty tricks" before and during the Vietnam war and ever since.
>
>"It's always the case that in a big and complex State machine, there are
all sorts of elements, they don't have to be endorsed by all of the
political leadership, they can be people representing a trend in the
political leadership." Galloway states. He went on to once again lambaste
the disgusting Neo-Conservative war crazed movement that had recently
attempted to falsify documents to implicate Mr Galloway in the very
corruption that they consistently revel in:
>
>"I 've already mentioned this hideous character Richard Pearle. I saw him
the other day actually snarling 'you're next', threatening people with
American military power, a man who couldn't punch his own way out of a wet
paper bag, but ready to fight to the last with other people's last drop of
blood. These people make my blood boil and they ought to make every right
thinking person feel that way. We deserve better than to be governed by
these gangsters."
>
>Mr Galloway went on to describe how it is always the elite draft dodging
spoon-fed weaklings that strive for this kind of dominance over all,
sacrificing the lives of others whilst swaggering around in their own bomber
jackets playing up to the act.
>
>Returning to staged terrorism and Zionism Mr Galloway pointed out that
Zionism has nothing to do with Jewishness. The Zionist movement, as it is
well documented, funded Hitler before World War Two and many of the
figurehead of Zionism were not and are not Jews.
>
>"The reality is these people have used Jewish people, and they have used
them with this ideology of Zionism, to create this little Hitler State on
the Mediterranean, to act as an advance guard for their own interests in the
Arab world, and we're all paying for it, the Palestinians have paid for it,
the Arabs have paid for it, and now the American people are paying for it,
and why should we? We don't want to live our lives in a permanent state of
warfare and division."
>
>The danger in the Arab world is that the people their know we are not evil
and corrupt like our governments are, but they also know that we
democratically elect our governments, Galloway goes on to decree. They are
supposed to act on our behalf and that's why this corrupt version of
"democracy" is being flatly rejected across the Arab world.
>
>Mr Galloway concluded by asserting that we do have the power to change
things, we are in the majority:
>
>"The United States was a country built out of nothing and a country that
went to the stars. The people of the United States are great 'can-do' people
and they ought to be able to use the Constitution which the founding fathers
gave them to organise their political power to change things."
>
>Related Information: Mr. Galloway Goes to Washington


>
<STRONG>George Galloway MP: Elements Within
>Government Using Terror Provocation Tactics</STRONG>


>
<STRONG>>target=_blank>Steve Watson &amp; Alex Jones /
Prisonplanet |
>September 13 2005</STRONG>


>
On Friday 9th September Alex Jones was joined on air by
>member of Parliament and prominent antiwar activist George Galloway for a
>riveting one on one interview.


>
Mr Galloway discussed the rising tide of anti-Iraq war
>protest, the snarling Neo-Cons' plan for world war and the possibility of
staged
>government terror attacks to justify the invasion of more countries.


>
>href="http://prisonplanet.tv/members/audio/090905galloway.htm?"
>target=_blank>Prisonplanet.tv subscribers click here to
>listen to the interview in its entirety


>
The Emerging Controlled Police State


>
Mr Galloway kicked things off by asserting that the
recent
>purposeful botch job on the part of FEMA in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, and
>the heavy handed police state like crackdown in New Orleans has backfired
on the
>political elite.


>
"The United States today looks like a country run by
>dangerous malevolent incompetants...There is a stain on the reputation of your
>great country and by association mine" Said Mr Galloway.


>
We have extensively covered the purposeful
incompetence of
>the federal response in New Orleans and the jackbooted thuggery that is being
>advertised all over the nightly news, forwarding the agenda to once again
>normalize such repressive authoritative behaviour. Mr Galloway described the
>aftermath of Katrina as:


>
"A bizarre catalogue of incompetence and malevolence and
>racism and all the worst things about the US today... and now as we are
>beginning to pick up, there is more to it than meets the eye and it may be
being
>seized upon as a big diversion. If it was it hasn't worked, it just compounds
>people's feeling that the US is run by these ghoulish, Marie Antoinette
>incompetents."


>
Mr Galloway went on to describe the state that the
Neo-Con
>greed and war machine has got itself into:


>
"On the surface they appear to be gliding serenely like a
>swan but underneath they are paddling like hell just to stay afloat because
they
>run the risk of being thrown out."


>
But Mr Galloway was also quick to point out that you
cannot
>slip a cigarette paper between the two opposition parties both in the United
>States and Great Britain. There is no opposition, both countries operate
under a
>duopoly, both parties run along parallel lines. We have to constructively
>approach how we vote and who we empower.


>
Mr Galloway's Respect Party, whom he represents in the
>London Constituency of Bethnal Green is an example of such a constructive
>movement. Respect knows it is never going to win a majority vote but is there
>simply to keep the powers that be in line, bringing them to book so to
speak on
>important and far reaching issues that may otherwise go relatively
>unchallenged.


>
"The danger is that when the state begins to be such a
>miserable abysmal failure that people turn not to progressive forces of
>leadership but to the kind of brown shirted aggressive forces...".Galloway
>comments.


>
Government Engineered Terrorism


>
Previously Mr Galloway has suggested that there is a very
>real danger of the government engineering a situation where terror attacks can
>be manufactured and seized upon to forward the pre-planned agenda abroad
and at
>home. On Friday Mr Galloway elaborated on these comments:


>
"There is a very real danger because you have elements
>within the state, you have the Richard Pearle 'axis of evil' snarling 'you're
>next' at this country or that country and yet the circumstance on the ground,
>the political collapse of the Bushites in the United States, the resistance in
>Iraq having taken such a terrible toll...is making the idea of another war
>simply ridiculous...and yet there are those in this Neo-Con, Zionist,
Christian
>Fundamentalist axis that really are itching to get as much of this agenda
pushed
>on whilst they still have the reins of power. So you cannot discount some kind
>of provocation being staged by those elements who want to propel the US
into an
>even more disastrous invasion"


>
Mr Galloway suggests that it is not beyond the realms of
>imagination for a situation to arise where the power hungry elite in the US
uses
>staged provocation to drag Iran into a geopolitical set-to, using Israel as
the
>hammer. If this were to happen, the consequences could be as far reaching
as to
>start a third world war which would be devastating for humanity.


>
This would provide the authorities with the perfect
excuse
>to set up a police state domestically to regulate the activities of
everyone and
>have complete control.


>
"...That's right, it's Orwellian, it's 1984, the
permanent
>division of the world into warring blocs, for the profit of a few at the
cost of
>the misery of the many, and we have to refuse this in every way we can."
>Galloway states.


>
Of course, the past masters of government sponsored
>terrorism were the Zionists, who created the condition in the Arab countries,
>and in some European countries to stampede the Jewish populations out of the
>countries they had been living in for many hundreds years and get them into a
>Zionist state. Galloway comments:


>
"Suddenly Jewish people who had been the victims of
>Christian persecution suddenly saw their Synagogues being blown up, their
>countries being attacked and all kinds of provocations being staged so packed
>their bags and moved to occupied Palestine, then to be called Israel."


>
The Neo-Con War mentality


>
It's well documented that the United States has adopted
>such provocation "dirty tricks" before and during the Vietnam war and ever
>since.


>
"It's always the case that in a big and complex State
>machine, there are all sorts of elements, they don't have to be endorsed by
all
>of the political leadership, they can be people representing a trend in the
>political leadership." Galloway states. He went on to once again lambaste the
>disgusting Neo-Conservative war crazed movement that had recently attempted to
>falsify documents to implicate Mr Galloway in the very corruption that they
>consistently revel in:


>
"I 've already mentioned this hideous character Richard
>Pearle. I saw him the other day actually snarling 'you're next', threatening
>people with American military power, a man who couldn't punch his own way
out of
>a wet paper bag, but ready to fight to the last with other people's last
drop of
>blood. These people make my blood boil and they ought to make every right
>thinking person feel that way. We deserve better than to be governed by these
>gangsters."


>
Mr Galloway went on to describe how it is always the
elite
>draft dodging spoon-fed weaklings that strive for this kind of dominance over
>all, sacrificing the lives of others whilst swaggering around in their own
>bomber jackets playing up to the act.


>
Returning to staged terrorism and Zionism Mr Galloway
>pointed out that Zionism has nothing to do with Jewishness. The Zionist
>movement, as it is well documented, funded Hitler before World War Two and
many
>of the figurehead of Zionism were not and are not Jews.


>
"The reality is these people have used Jewish people, and
>they have used them with this ideology of Zionism, to create this little
Hitler
>State on the Mediterranean, to act as an advance guard for their own interests
>in the Arab world, and we're all paying for it, the Palestinians have paid for
>it, the Arabs have paid for it, and now the American people are paying for it,
>and why should we? We don't want to live our lives in a permanent state of
>warfare and division."


>
The danger in the Arab world is that the people their
know
>we are not evil and corrupt like our governments are, but they also know
that we
>democratically elect our governments, Galloway goes on to decree. They are
>supposed to act on our behalf and that's why this corrupt version of
"democracy"
>is being flatly rejected across the Arab world.


>
Mr Galloway concluded by asserting that we do have the
>power to change things, we are in the majority:


>
"The United States was a country built out of nothing
and a
>country that went to the stars. The people of the United States are great
>'can-do' people and they ought to be able to use the Constitution which the
>founding fathers gave them to organise their political power to change
>things."


>
>target=_blank>Related Information: Mr. Galloway Goes to
>Washington

[Ally]

galloway does enough but that seemed a bit like theatre

[Jane]

Hi

My name is Jane by the way, and I live in Otley, West Yorkshire and work in Leeds. I can't seem to even remember now how I first came across the "nineeleven.co.uk" group but it was only a month or so ago (although I have always known - almost since before it happened {I knew something was going to happen} that "9/11," as it was presented to us, was a total lie, and also that there has been some kind of orchestrated "attack" going on against Muslims –manipulated from behind the scenes - for several years even before then). Anyway, I was sufficiently "impressed" with this website, that I printed out several copies of sheets about it and took it to a public meeting we had arranged at Bradford Library through our Bradford Stop The War group. I left these pages at the front of the room and I doubt anyone would have even noticed them, but as it happened, there was someone else at this meeting who was handing out copies of the DVD (9/11 - Confronting The Evidence) - I took one and watched it!

Re: George Galloway and how he perceives the "9/11" scenario – I went to a meeting at Bradford University some years ago now, where he was speaking – someone asked him if he believed the American Government had carried out the whole thing themselves, and I believe he just dismissed the idea at that time. Yet he may have changed his opinion since. I personally think we should be “gentle” on people who are at present unable to see things in the way we can – to me it is like a “dimension shift” or something (!) and is not that easy for many people to make tjos "shift" – otherwise everyone in the world would have been so outraged by the whole travesty of “9/11” (the lie was just so BLATENT to see right on that first day!) that we would have all demanded not so much a “Hearing” as to how it happened – but rather demanded to know WHY they did it and how on earth they thought they could get away with it!!! So we must be “tolerant” of others who find it hard to see things as we do right now, I believe.

[Seb]

To be honest, I can understand why Galloway is wary of the 9/11 Truth Movement. If I were thinking tactically I would be worried that further cooperation would begin to affect support for RESPECT.

We must remember that although this is a quickly expanding movement, we still have a long way to go and the possibility of an inside job is just not a widely touted theory in the mainstream. We've all seen the grossly unfair witch hunt that Galloway was subjected to for suggesting that the London bombings were a "blowback" for our foreign policy. How reviled would he be for openly stating his belief that 9/11 was an inside job, if he does in fact believe so? There are "rules" of the game, if you like, and Galloway must navigate his way between them if he does not want to compromise his ability to bring about positive change.

Similarly with the Stop The War Coalition , do we risk delegitimizing the movement, will we impact upon their credibility - in the eyes of the wider public? My suggestion is that although this is far too important to leave alone it is also too early to make demands; there is a moral argument, a moral conviction that drives me to spread these ideas far and wide, but we must also sit down and think about the way we can be most effective in disseminating that message.
The most simple suggestion to start with is to use the existing networks of RESPECT and the Stop The War Coalition. This must be done informally and in some cases be targeted. We have been doing this and must continue to do so.

It's like the crossover in membership between the SWP and RESPECT and then again with the Stop The War Coalition. The argument has already been won. The shameful Keane Commission defeated itself by creating such a shambles of a report. It is that self-inflicted shot in the foot that ensures the commissioners limp away when tough questions are asked by true patriots such as William Rodriguez.

The closer we edge to the tipping point, the more help we can expect from existing organisations. Do remember that despite this hostile, intimidating atmosphere, Galloway has already spoken of the very real danger that an engineered terrorist attack will be used as a pretext for confrontation with Iran. Do Remember that the Stop The War Coalition has given David Shayler -- another hero with a strong moral compunction -- a spotlight to familiarise people with the serious questions hanging over 9/11.

I remember Noel mentioning a new campaign whose sole purpose will be to demand a new and truly independent investigation, I can see the day, in the not too distant future, when the StWC supports such a commission -this would be yet another step forward. Let's keep plugging away and not make demands that will reciprocally damage the respective movements, we will be playing into the hands of those who conspired to bring about the outrage that was 9/11.

[Seb]

Galloway versus Hitchens available on cspan.org

[Jim]

Also available on BBC Radio 4 site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/radio4/int/-/radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4  /galloway_hitchens_debate

[xmasdale]

I think those are wise words from both Jane and Seb. If we put people into the position of making public statements in support of the line that terrorist attacks are merely a blowback from Western foreign policy, we run the danger of cornering people into having to justify their earlier statements in order not to look inconsistent and foolish. We should also avoid insulting language which merely tends to rile people and harden their position.

At the G8 Alternative summit in Edinburgh, in front of a crowd of around 1000 people, one of our supporters asked George Galloway a question about authorship of the 911 attacks. That elicited the response from him, "Osama did it".

Then those of us 911 activists there had a confab and decided it was unwise to press him further publicly on that point. People need space to change their position without looking foolish.

Unlike Jane, I believed the blowback theory until September 2003 when I began to question it. Does that make me an * for the first two years?

Noel

[Jane]

No, it certainly doesn't Noel. There are so many things that happened (or allegedly happened) in "The News" in the past that I never even remotely "questioned" at the time, which I am now sincerely "wondering" about!

I have just spent an excruciating 10 minutes (it may have been less, it felt much longer) of having Christopher Hitchen’s voice blaring out of my computer, endlessly repeating the words "Nihilists, Terrorists and Jihadists...Iraq met all these four conditions repeatedly" and repeatedly! The "tape" seemed to have "got stuck" and I could neither turn him off, nor "End Task" and close the computer down ....his voice is still ringing in my ears now! I believe the words he used before he got himself stuck in this loop were "plays host to international gangsters" which funnily enough, were I believe, the exact words used by George Galloway (at a meeting I attended in Sheffield) to further describe the "gang of crooks" that were on their way to Gleneagles for the forthcoming G8 Summit at the time. I went and marched round Edinburgh on the Saturday, wearing my little white wristband! Yet within so short a time this whole movement, which I feel, was starting to have an effect on many people in various ways, seemed to be "smashed." Suddenly all that was seen and reported on TV & in the press from Edinburgh were scenes of people fighting with the police. No mention of gentle people like my friend Chris who had taken the day of work to drive himself and others up to Gleneagles a few days after my march, just portrayal of violence. Then to crown it all, we had the 7/7 "bombings." I must have been the "botty-hole" (to put it nicely!) that day, as it didn't really occur to me to doubt the news as I heard it - but I just sort of felt "this world is like this, every time you try to do something positive, the forces of chaos seem to work against you." I was just about to go on a trip to Rumania but the night before I attended a meeting organised by Leeds "Stop the War" in Millennium Square (this was not the big one which took place at lunch time) and actually addressed the crowd through the loudspeaker for the first time (the megaphone being held up for me by, I think, a Muslim Cleric). This made me feel better. But now I am feeling more and more that it is not that there are "forces of chaos" that wreck things - it is "certain beings" that are controlling things so well from behind that red velvet curtain that most people just don't notice how easily we are influenced. "Yes, Make Poverty History" was all the fashion a month or so ago, but now people have other interests" someone said (ironically) to me the other day! Where are you Toto?!

[brian]

On Galloway

I take the view that anyone who is aware or believes that Sept 11 was self inflicted should say so openly. September 11 underpins this whole "clash of civilisations" lie and to pretend it was "muslims", if that is what one hopes he is doing, only serves to shore up the lie and excacerbate the problem. The purpose of the lie is to generate the them and us situation, anyone, even the unwitting albeit innocent, who subscribes to the official line are in effect part of the problem. I admire Galloways directness but feel he keeps the issue too narrow. Those responsible for Sept 11 are a threat to all of us and not exposing their lie is in effect promoting it in my view.

As seb said, his main objective is to promote his party Respect and I may be naive in hoping the politically ambitious to put truth first but would like to think the truth in this instance is more in his electorates interests than anything else.

It is possible that he is unaware of the huge questions surrounding Sept 11 but I would find that difficult to believe.

[Ally]

[Ally]

Greg Palast savages Galloway

GALLOWAY: DEADLY ANTI-ABORTION THREATS FROM REPUBLICAN'S FAVORITE "LEFTIST"

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=460&row=0

[xmasdale]

I expect most politicians to behave like most politicians - to be more concerned with saying what it likely to further their career than with speaking truth. Having said that, it would be helpful to us if, as good a speaker, Galloway publicy stated he thought we had been lied to about the facts of 9/11.

I would like to think he was sincere, but that could be a little naive.

Noel

[Seb]

[Ally]

[Seb]

[Ally]

[Seb]

How strange; so you want a "chauvenist joke"[sic] to speak out for 9/11 Truth?
How peculiar of you!

I, in fact, disagree with Galloway a fair amount. I was more in agreement with Salman Rushdie than Galloway when they locked horns on Question Time over religion.

This conversation is going nowhere, you can have the last word.

[Ally]

Peace Seb, I've nowt against u or George, nobody is perfect.

[Ally]