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The Watcher Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 200
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: Rear Guard Action |
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Staraker exclaimed:
Quote: | ... so prevalent here - for people to see what they want to see. |
Oh how true, my apologist friend. Of course, many of the questions posed on this forum could be addressed in the event of a full, unconstrained independent inquiry ... but we know that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Far to many embarrassing questions!!
The Watcher
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:55 am Post subject: |
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The driver casually walking away from the incident (as caught on camera).
Staraker wrote: | You read "casual," most people would read "shock." |
The driver disappearing for approx 90mins before turning up at a West London hospital, seven miles from Tavistock Square.
Actually it is a criminal offence for the driver to leave the crime scene. He is in charge of his passengers and has a duty of care towards them. Therefore casually walking off and possibly clearing the Alcohol or drugs out of his sytem before appearing several hours later 7 miles away.
You try it for youself. Anyone in his position MUST remain with his vehicle and passengers.
He is not a hero he is a criminal possibly a murderer.
_________________
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numeral Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 500 Location: South London
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: |
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karlos wrote: | The driver casually walking away from the incident (as caught on camera).
Staraker wrote: | You read "casual," most people would read "shock." |
The driver disappearing for approx 90mins before turning up at a West London hospital, seven miles from Tavistock Square.
Actually it is a criminal offence for the driver to leave the crime scene. He is in charge of his passengers and has a duty of care towards them. Therefore casually walking off and possibly clearing the Alcohol or drugs out of his sytem before appearing several hours later 7 miles away.
You try it for youself. Anyone in his position MUST remain with his vehicle and passengers.
He is not a hero he is a criminal possibly a murderer. |
The Central Middlesex Hospital is in Acton Lane, Park Royal.
There was however a Middlesex Hospital in Googe Street. It closed in 2005. Staraker has pointed this out before.
http://www.uclh.nhs.uk/News/Middlesex+hospital+memories+in+picture.htm
Quote: | Middlesex hospital memories in picture
18 September 2007
The life and history of The Middlesex Hospital is captured in all its glory with a new book published by UCLH Charities.
Middlesex Memories is a wonderful series of photographs and memory vignettes that capture the life and importance of the hospital which was based in Goodge Street and sold in June last year by University College London Hospitals NHS Foundation trust for £175m.
This much loved hospital had a very distinguished history stretching back over 250 years and was home to many medical and surgical innovations.
But by 2005, time finally ran out for the Middlesex Hospital buildings, as it was overtaken by modern healthcare requirements and its services were decanted to the new University College Hospital.
This book by photographer and erstwhile healthcare planner, Carole Rawlinson, of Muswell Hill, provides a snapshot in time of The Middlesex after it closed.
It links pictures of parts of the Middlesex Hospital building to people’s personal memories of the hospital at particular points in their lives as staff or patients. The book does not claim to provide a comprehensive history of The Middlesex, but for anyone associated with the hospital, the pictures will bring their own memories flooding back. |
_________________ Follow the numbers |
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Nick Cooper Suspended
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 329
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | [quote="karlos"]The driver casually walking away from the incident (as caught on camera).
Staraker wrote: | You read "casual," most people would read "shock." |
The driver disappearing for approx 90mins before turning up at a West London hospital, seven miles from Tavistock Square. |
Allegedly, and possibly erroneously-reported.
Quote: | Actually it is a criminal offence for the driver to leave the crime scene. He is in charge of his passengers and has a duty of care towards them. Therefore casually walking off and possibly clearing the Alcohol or drugs out of his sytem before appearing several hours later 7 miles away. |
I suspect that it is a criminal office for a driver to leave the scene of an accident, which this clearly wasn't.
Quote: | You try it for youself. |
Difficult. I don't drive, so it would be illegal even without anything happening.
Quote: | Anyone in his position MUST remain with his vehicle and passengers. |
I would also imagine that this is tempered by the state of the driver in question. Someone in deep shock, for example, would not be seen as being the same as someone who is drunk/on drugs.
Quote: | He is not a hero he is a criminal possibly a murderer. |
Well, in the absence of proof, that';s libellous.
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Staraker wrote: |
Quote: | He is not a hero he is a criminal possibly a murderer. |
Well, in the absence of proof, that';s libellous. |
Everything that is said now apparently is libellous.
The point of this exchange is obvious.
To stop free speech as it is libellous.
Who decides? A letter from a solicitor thats who.
But a question aired still remains a question whether libellous or not.
We cant answer the questions so lets just bury them under the carpet under the threat of alleged libellous statements.
Staraker is actually arguing that because it was an alleged 'terrorist' event normal rules of behaviour of someone who was driving a bus which blew up do not apply. That is normal rules.
But no evidence has been presented in public as to who blew up the bus. The police allege a 'terrorist'. So until that can be proven in a court of law, the statement that the bus driver is a criminal still stands.
If the police on evidence they only have declare any event terrorist and then do as they please there is no need for any laws.
This is the real agenda of the anti-terrorist laws. To suspend not only rights and responsibilities but to condone any form of behaviour.
Staraker is actually an anarchist dressed up as a critic. He concludes what is libellous based on what is not publically available as evidence (for none has been made publically available). The bus driver would not want to start a libellous prosecution that he is not a criminal for he would have to prove when he actually knew a 'terrorist' blew up the bus and what evidence has been provided it was a 'terrorist' event.
The publicity alone would discount a trial.
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Nick Cooper Suspended
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 329
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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conspiracy analyst wrote: | Staraker wrote: |
Quote: | He is not a hero he is a criminal possibly a murderer. |
Well, in the absence of proof, that';s libellous. |
Everything that is said now apparently is libellous.
The point of this exchange is obvious.
To stop free speech as it is libellous.
Who decides? A letter from a solicitor thats who.
But a question aired still remains a question whether libellous or not.
We cant answer the questions so lets just bury them under the carpet under the threat of alleged libellous statements.
Staraker is actually arguing that because it was an alleged 'terrorist' event normal rules of behaviour of someone who was driving a bus which blew up do not apply. That is normal rules. |
Liar, I am not "arguing" that at all. I have suggested that the law about a driver leaving a vehicle only applies to road accidents, which this was clearly not. I have also suggested that even in the case of RTAs, whether a driver was deemed to have broken the law would be tempered by their mental state at the time. The law in this respect it designed to discourage - or deal with - drivers who willfully leave an RTA scene to avoid investigation, not those who wander off in a state of shock.
Quote: | But no evidence has been presented in public as to who blew up the bus. The police allege a 'terrorist'. So until that can be proven in a court of law, the statement that the bus driver is a criminal still stands. |
OK. Hire a solicitor and bring a private prosecution, then, if you're so sure.
Quote: | If the police on evidence they only have declare any event terrorist and then do as they please there is no need for any laws. |
Prove it. Oh no, you can't, can you?
Quote: | This is the real agenda of the anti-terrorist laws. To suspend not only rights and responsibilities but to condone any form of behaviour.
Staraker is actually an anarchist dressed up as a critic. He concludes what is libellous based on what is not publically available as evidence (for none has been made publically available). The bus driver would not want to start a libellous prosecution that he is not a criminal for he would have to prove when he actually knew a 'terrorist' blew up the bus and what evidence has been provided it was a 'terrorist' event. |
All he would have to prove - and would probably so so with ease - is that the accusation of him being a "criminal" is false and is damaging to his personal charcater and reputation.
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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[ Quote: | quote="Staraker"]
Staraker is actually arguing that because it was an alleged 'terrorist' event normal rules of behaviour of someone who was driving a bus which blew up do not apply. That is normal rules. |
Liar, I am not "arguing" that at all. I have suggested that the law about a driver leaving a vehicle only applies to road accidents, which this was clearly not. I have also suggested that even in the case of RTAs, whether a driver was deemed to have broken the law would be tempered by their mental state at the time. The law in this respect it designed to discourage - or deal with - drivers who willfully leave an RTA scene to avoid investigation, not those who wander off in a state of shock.[/quote]
The reports regarding the driver are almost the same as the sightings of De Menezes. He jumped the barrier, left the scene of the bus, he wore a thick jacket, he helped the passengers, he stopped to pick up a copy of the Metro, he did a marathon run within the hour and got to West London etc etc. If left to go to West London then there must be a reason. His father alleged he was under threat from 'terrorists'. Was the police after him? Was he set up, saw what happened and made a run for it? Then under pressure changed his story? Either which way he is responsible for passengers on a bus and whether a missile hit it, it blew up or it crashed he was alive, he should have stayed and helped the passengers.
The aiding of the passengers was added on not in the immediate aftermath but days after, I wonder why? To cover their track of lies?
Quote: |
Quote: | But no evidence has been presented in public as to who blew up the bus. The police allege a 'terrorist'. So until that can be proven in a court of law, the statement that the bus driver is a criminal still stands. |
OK. Hire a solicitor and bring a private prosecution, then, if you're so sure.
Quote: | If the police on evidence they only have declare any event terrorist and then do as they please there is no need for any laws. |
Prove it. Oh no, you can't, can you?
Quote: | This is the real agenda of the anti-terrorist laws. To suspend not only rights and responsibilities but to condone any form of behaviour.
Staraker is actually an anarchist dressed up as a critic. He concludes what is libellous based on what is not publically available as evidence (for none has been made publically available). The bus driver would not want to start a libellous prosecution that he is not a criminal for he would have to prove when he actually knew a 'terrorist' blew up the bus and what evidence has been provided it was a 'terrorist' event. |
All he would have to prove - and would probably so so with ease - is that the accusation of him being a "criminal" is false and is damaging to his personal charcater and reputation. | [/quote]
The attention in and of itself would entail this would never happen.
Lies like the story of the bus driver would not want media attention.
This isn't the McDonalds libel trial.
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guzman Minor Poster
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: |
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numeral wrote: | karlos wrote: | The driver casually walking away from the incident (as caught on camera).
Staraker wrote: | You read "casual," most people would read "shock." |
The driver disappearing for approx 90mins before turning up at a West London hospital, seven miles from Tavistock Square.
Actually it is a criminal offence for the driver to leave the crime scene. He is in charge of his passengers and has a duty of care towards them. Therefore casually walking off and possibly clearing the Alcohol or drugs out of his sytem before appearing several hours later 7 miles away.
You try it for youself. Anyone in his position MUST remain with his vehicle and passengers.
He is not a hero he is a criminal possibly a murderer. |
The Central Middlesex Hospital is in Acton Lane, Park Royal.
There was however a Middlesex Hospital in Googe Street. It closed in 2005. Staraker has pointed this out before.
http://www.uclh.nhs.uk/News/Middlesex+hospital+memories+in+picture.htm
Quote: | Middlesex hospital memories in picture
18 September 2007
The life and history of The Middlesex Hospital is captured in all its glory with a new book published by UCLH Charities.
Middlesex Memories is a wonderful series of photographs and memory vignettes that capture the life and importance of the hospital which was based in Goodge Street and sold in June last year by University College London Hospitals NHS Foundation trust for £175m.
This much loved hospital had a very distinguished history stretching back over 250 years and was home to many medical and surgical innovations.
But by 2005, time finally ran out for the Middlesex Hospital buildings, as it was overtaken by modern healthcare requirements and its services were decanted to the new University College Hospital.
This book by photographer and erstwhile healthcare planner, Carole Rawlinson, of Muswell Hill, provides a snapshot in time of The Middlesex after it closed.
It links pictures of parts of the Middlesex Hospital building to people’s personal memories of the hospital at particular points in their lives as staff or patients. The book does not claim to provide a comprehensive history of The Middlesex, but for anyone associated with the hospital, the pictures will bring their own memories flooding back. |
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There's no reference to a Goodge Street hospital in Psaradakis' accounts.
Quote: | He eventually turned up in his blood-spattered clothes 11 kilometres away at a west London hospital an hour later, in shock and still shaking.
iafrica, 9th July 2005 |
Quote: | Although he lives in Stoke Newington, in North London, he continued his journey west for seven miles and sought help only once he reached the Central Middlesex Hospital in Acton, West London, at about 10.50am. He was still wearing his blood-spattered uniform.
The Times |
He was probably heading towards his brother's house, which was even further to the west. After being discharged from the hospital he was re-united with his family at his brother's house rather than at his own home.
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numeral Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 500 Location: South London
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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hi guzman, you quote the Times: Quote: | Although he lives in Stoke Newington, in North London, he continued his journey west for seven miles and sought help only once he reached the Central Middlesex Hospital in Acton, West London, at about 10.50am. He was still wearing his blood-spattered uniform. |
His bus was going east to Hackney Wick.
_________________ Follow the numbers |
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Nick Cooper Suspended
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 329
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: |
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guzman wrote: | There's no reference to a Goodge Street hospital in Psaradakis' accounts.
Quote: | He eventually turned up in his blood-spattered clothes 11 kilometres away at a west London hospital an hour later, in shock and still shaking.
iafrica, 9th July 2005 |
Quote: | Although he lives in Stoke Newington, in North London, he continued his journey west for seven miles and sought help only once he reached the Central Middlesex Hospital in Acton, West London, at about 10.50am. He was still wearing his blood-spattered uniform.
The Times |
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We should be clear that all references to the Central Middlesex Hospital appear to stem back to the above Times piece, published on the Saturday and presumably based on some sort of interview the previous day. It is notable that the name of the hospital does not appear in a direct quote, nor does the distance involved. It is quite feasible that Psaradakis meant the Middlesex Hospital, but either said "Central Middlesex" by mistake, or gave the correct name and the journalist mistakenly thought it was the Central Middlesex, and similarly "filled in the blanks" r.e. the distance to pad out what is actually quite a bare story.
Last edited by Nick Cooper on Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Prole Validated Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Numeral wrote: | His bus was going east to Hackney Wick. |
All the early reports had the bus going west from Hackney Wick to Marble Arch. On the Real Story with Fiona Bruce, about the number 30, which was aired a few days after 7/7, she was interviewing a young man whose girlfriend was in hospital after getting on the number 30 in North London!
[on edit] from this thread:
Quote: | Police investigation
Police requests for video footage from Hackney’s cameras which
might shed light on the bombings were starting to come in on the
afternoon of 7 July. “By 4pm we already had a request from SO13
(New Scotland Yard’s Anti-Terrorist Branch) for video from every
camera in the borough,” says Andy. “The next day, further requests
came in for footage from two weeks prior to the bombings. Then
came the request for footage from commercial cameras.” |
I wonder why Stagecoach refused to allow Thomas Ikimi, as a relative of Anthony Fatayi-Williams who is reported to have died on the bus, access to Psaradakis when he made his film Homefront?
_________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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guzman Minor Poster
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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numeral wrote: | hi guzman, you quote the Times: Quote: | Although he lives in Stoke Newington, in North London, he continued his journey west for seven miles and sought help only once he reached the Central Middlesex Hospital in Acton, West London, at about 10.50am. He was still wearing his blood-spattered uniform. |
His bus was going east to Hackney Wick. |
hi numeral, this is the preceding paragraph, which would explain why the times said he continued his journey west.
Quote: | After police cleared the area, fearing further explosions, Mr Psarabakis began walking west along streets crowded with commuters stranded outside Tube stations and unable to get to work. |
I'm sure Staraker will correct me on this, but it seems that Psaradakis is the only person in Tavistock Square to mirror Ian Blair's statement about there being a passing police officer injured in the bus explosion who went onto help the other survivors.
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guzman Minor Poster
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Staraker wrote: | guzman wrote: | There's no reference to a Goodge Street hospital in Psaradakis' accounts.
Quote: | He eventually turned up in his blood-spattered clothes 11 kilometres away at a west London hospital an hour later, in shock and still shaking.
iafrica, 9th July 2005 |
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Quote: | Although he lives in Stoke Newington, in North London, he continued his journey west for seven miles and sought help only once he reached the Central Middlesex Hospital in Acton, West London, at about 10.50am. He was still wearing his blood-spattered uniform.
The Times |
We should be clear that all references to the Central Middlesex Hospital appear to stem back to the above Times piece, published on the Saturday and presumably based on some sort of interview the previous day. |
Hi Staraker, I did at first think I was referencing from two different sources because at first glance I saw iafrica quoting from the Sun newspaper, but having looked at them again, yes it does appear they're from a common source; the common source probably being the Sun rather than The Times.
Nevertheless Psaradakis' brother living in Middlesex does make the story of him travelling to Central Middlesex Hospital, if true, semi-plausible. The journey to his home from Goodge Street hospital is nearly 3.5 miles while the journey to his brother's house in Uxbridge is nearly 11 miles. News reports around the anniversary have him re-uniting with his family at his brother's house in Uxbridge, the earlier news reports don't explain where they were re-united except to say that is was some time after 2pm. I guess similar issues to before, no direct quote etc.. Though if true, Psaradakis re-uniting at his brother's home would be more plausible if he first went to Central Middlesex hospital rather the hospital on Goodge Street.
Quote: | It is notable that the name of the hospital does not appear in a direct quote, nor does the distance involved. It is quite feasible that Psaradakis meant the Middlesex Hospital, but either said "Central Middlesex" by mistake, or gave the correct name and the journalist mistakenly thought it was the Central Middlesex, and similarly "filled in the blanks" r.e. the distance to pad out what is actually quite a bare story. |
Are you sure you want to employ that kind of reasoning? Wouldn't you automatically consider the newspaper reports as factually correct?
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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guzman wrote: |
Nevertheless Psaradakis' brother living in Middlesex does make the story of him travelling to Central Middlesex Hospital, if true, semi-plausible. The journey to his home from Goodge Street hospital is nearly 3.5 miles while the journey to his brother's house in Uxbridge is nearly 11 miles. News reports around the anniversary have him re-uniting with his family at his brother's house in Uxbridge, the earlier news reports don't explain where they were re-united except to say that is was some time after 2pm. I guess similar issues to before, no direct quote etc.. Though if true, Psaradakis re-uniting at his brother's home would be more plausible if he first went to Central Middlesex hospital rather the hospital on Goodge Street. |
His father on Greek tv had him being under police protection for being frightened for his life that 'terrorists' were out to get him?
So which was the real story?
a) Psaradakis is a marathon runner?
b) He was whisked away by police after the photo-shoot?
c) He had nothing to do with the bus?
If a story has three variations on a theme, a bus which wasn't on its route, the main driver dissapears from the scene and only reappears a week later, never speaks to anyone about what happened then what is one led to believe?
Resident Harry Potter fans any ideas?
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: |
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George Psaradakis, 49, of Darville Road, Stoke Newington escaped with just cuts and bruises in the devastating bomb blast, which ripped through the bus he was driving at 9.47am on Thursday morning in Tavistock Square, central London, killing at least 13 of his passengers.
"My bus had been diverted because there were thousands of people coming out of the Tube," he said after the event. "There were many people who were trying to get on the bus at once. Suddenly there was a bang, then carnage. Everything seemed to happen behind me.
"There were many injured people and at first I thought, how am I alive when everyone is dying around me?"
Eyewitness accounts recall body parts and human debris scattered all over the square and the devastating scene became too much for the bus driver who rang his wife Adriani in tears sobbing: "My passengers are dead, all my passengers are dead."
this is the report in the Local Press - Hachney Gazette 13/07/2005
Quote: | London bomb horror
13 July 2005
In the wake of last week's bomb blasts in central London, the Gazette looks at its effect on the people of Hackney over four of its news pages.
HELL ON WHEELS
Bus driver: George Psaradakis
TWO of the 13 passengers killed in the explosion, which ripped apart a double-decker bus were heading into Hackney, it emerged this week.
While heroic driver George Psaradakis, from Stoke Newington, miraculously escaped the devastating carnage with only cuts and bruises, software developer Neetu Jain and cleaner Gladys Wundowa are believed to have been among those killed on the number 30 bus when it exploded in Tavistock Square, central London, last Thursday.
Last week's tragic events also struck close to home at Hackney's Learning Trust, which runs the borough's schools.
An unnamed worker at its offices in Mare Street was given extended compassionate leave this week because his girlfriend Emily Jenkins, 24, is thought to be one of the victims of the King's Cross bomb.
Moments after his bus was blown apart, George Psaradakis rang his wife crying: "My passengers are dead, all my passengers are dead."
The 49-year-old from Darville Road, risked his life pulling people from the wreckage.
Anyone with information they believe could be relevant to the inquiry should call the Anti-Terrorist Hotline on 0800 789 321.
Police are asking for photographs, video footage or mobile phone images, which were taken on Thursday morning either in, or close to the areas where the bombs exploded to be e-mailed to images@met.police.uk.
HERO BUS DRIVER SPEAKS
THE HEROIC driver of the number 30 bus destroyed in the London terrorist attacks described the horrific aftermath as "carnage".
George Psaradakis, 49, of Darville Road, Stoke Newington escaped with just cuts and bruises in the devastating bomb blast, which ripped through the bus he was driving at 9.47am on Thursday morning in Tavistock Square, central London, killing at least 13 of his passengers.
"My bus had been diverted because there were thousands of people coming out of the Tube," he said after the event. "There were many people who were trying to get on the bus at once. Suddenly there was a bang, then carnage. Everything seemed to happen behind me.
"There were many injured people and at first I thought, how am I alive when everyone is dying around me?"
Eyewitness accounts recall body parts and human debris scattered all over the square and the devastating scene became too much for the bus driver who rang his wife Adriani in tears sobbing: "My passengers are dead, all my passengers are dead."
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http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/search/story.aspx?brand=HKYGOnline&cat egory=News&itemid=WeED08%20Sep%202005%2011:45:52:070&tBrand=HKYGOnline &tCategory=search
Obviously it wont come as a surprise because we have all tried this before but 118118.com and bt.com have no trace of Searched for Psaradakis in London let alone Darville Road.
The reports from Greece were quite different again:
Bus driver 'had saint on his side'
From correspondents in Athens and staff writers
July 09, 2005
THE Greek driver of a bus gutted in the bomb attacks that tore through London has told his family how one of the victims died in his arms.
"He told me that two passengers were killed, and that a girl died in his hands," said Yiannis Psaradakis, the uncle of London Transport driver George Psaradakis.
It is now known that 13 people died in the bus attack.
The 49-year-old driver, whose family lives in the town of Canea on the island of Crete, was unhurt, said the Athens News Agency.
"George said he had a saint on his side," his mother said.
In a statement reported by Britain's Press Association today, the driver said: "I am just relieved to be here and to be able to see my wife and children. Many other people have not been so fortunate"
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Greek bus driver taken into hiding by police as key witness
The Greek driver of the bus blown up in one of the London attacks last Thursday is under police protection at a secret location the Athens News Agency reported yesterday. Giorgos Psaradakis, 47, survived the blast with minor injuries. The bus’s CCTV system was not working on the morning of the attacks so the Metropolitan Police consider Psaradakis a key witness to events leading to the explosion, which killed 13 people. Meanwhile, a service for the victims of the London bombings is to be held at 10.30 a.m. tomorrow at Saint Paul’s Anglican Church at 27 Filellinon Street, off Syntagma Square.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100019_12/07/20 05_58512
Now the point is not that his wife's name is really ANDRIANI not Adriani. But if he was taken into protective custody why does the GLA report not state this?
"He told me that two passengers were killed, and that a girl died in his hands," said Yiannis Psaradakis, the uncle of London Transport driver George Psaradakis. Means that some of the other victims may have be allocated to the Bus when they really died on the tube?
There is a big difference between TWO and THIRTEEN
My personal view is indeed that he was whisked away for debriefing, he could not have walked to Central Middlesex hospital but could have been dropped off there by police - although in the photo he does not look injured at all.
Certainly he did not stay and help the passengers all of that hero stuff is definately a lie because then he would be in more than one photo and would be at the scene when the media arrived.
Phoning his wife and uncle may have happened while he was at Central Middlesex but certainly not at the scene because he did not even report the bomb to his depot or 999 which should have instinctively been his first two calls.
He speaks of hoardes of people clamouring to get on the bus even though the bus is on the wrong street. People do not just get onto any bus going anywhere so anyone seeing the number 30 on Upper Woburn Place would not have tried to get on because it does not usually go that way and so has no bus stop.
Bottom line is the bus driver's story is a pack of lies, but it may not be that he is the villian just another potential victim told to keep his head down and play ball or else he ends up like Richmal.
Certainly the few victims report seems realistic. Most genuine passengers would have got off the bus when they saw it stuck in traffic and diverted a few who were maybe distracted talking on the phone or reding a paper may ot have noticed the diversion. Richard Jone's report for what it's worth states that most of the people got off.
Taken from the Islington Advertiser:
Miss Rosenberg, who lives in Finsbury Park, has not been heard of since the bomb in Tavistock Square on Thursday.
She is one of the 50 people still missing, feared dead, and Mr Falding's memories of their last conversation echo in his head.
Mr Falding, 62, said: "Her last word was 'newsletter' because she was saying this would make a good story for the one I write. Then I heard the most ghastly sounds of screaming in the background.
"I don't think it was the people who were hurt but survivors who saw what had happened. I didn't hear a blast but Anat's phone went dead right away."
I am simply trying to piece the various reports to construct a plausible storyline. This is clearly the moment Anat Rosenberg died. Which again is an unusual story:
Israeli Jewish woman leaves her country because of bus bombings, only to die in a bus bombing herself.
Anat's reasons for leaving Israel were complex. She was very patriotic.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jonathan_spyer/2006/07/in_memory_o f_anat_rosenberg.html
Mike's Bar as you may recall is the bar allegedly blown up by two more British bombers but later proven to have been blown up by Mossad.
How would two British Asian's have got visas to visit Israel or not have stuck out like a sore thumb and been stopped and searched everywhere they went. Let alone make videos?
I am not saying Anat is not dead simply she makes yet another unusual link.
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guzman Minor Poster
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: George Psaradakis |
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stelios/karlos,
do you know the Greek version of George Psaradakis' name?
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Georgios is his christian name. But spellings can vary, ofcourse Giorgos or giorgios, but it means the same thing George.
Like Karl is short for Karlos.
However his surname Psaradakis is not a very common name at all.
All of the various accounts cannot be true so we have to consider what are more realistic. His call to his family in Crete - he would have probably told them the truth. His being debriefed by the police and then getting dropped off at an uncrowded hospital is also plausible. Ambulances do this all the time when a major incident occurs.
Forget this talk about any other hospital because all reports clearly stated the central middx.
His story is very unusual. A 16 year old emigrating to Britain in 1972 to escape the rag trade.
In 1972 Britain was not a member of EU nor was Greece so how he would have acquired his visa goodness knows.
In 1974 the Cyprus war happened which caused alot of Cypriots to come to Britain but dont forget Cyprus was British colony.Greece was never a part of any treaty with Britain nor was it part of the EU.
I am pretty sure this 1972 story is a cooked up one.
A Greek man emerged as one of the key witnesses in Thursday’s terrorist attacks in London after it was revealed that he had been driving the bus which was ripped apart by one of the bombs, killing at least 13 passengers.
Crete Newspaper wrote: | Giorgos Psaradakis, 47, dramatically survived the explosion on the number 30 bus as it was passing Tavistock Square in central London. He escaped with minor injuries and was discharged from hospital after a few hours. “I am just relieved to be here,” the AP news agency quoted him as saying, “Many other people have not been so fortunate. I feel for the people who have perished and for their families,” said Psaradakis, originally from Hania in Crete.
His bus had been diverted because of the earlier explosions on underground trains and Psaradakis said that this led to a stream of passengers boarding the bus. “There were many people who were trying to get on the bus at once,” he said, “Suddenly there was a bang, then carnage. Everything seemed to happen behind me.”
Meanwhile, the Athens News Agency reported details about conversations that he had with his family in Greece in the aftermath of the bombing. “He told me that he was fine. He said that two passengers were killed and that a girl died in his arms,” said Yiannis Paterakis, his uncle. “Giorgos told me that he had a saint looking out for him,” said his aunt Argyroula.
Meanwhile, it also emerged that two Cypriots were injured in the blasts. Phillipos Patsalos, a 53-year-old university professor, was in a critical condition after losing one of his legs in the bombings, while 19-year-old Daniella Kolia was in a stable condition in hospital. |
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.astynomia.gr/main/Article.jsp?ArticleID=66140&LanguageID=2
Greek public order minister Voulgarakis met George Psaradakis, the Greek driver of the bus involved in the terrorist attacks, and gave him a small silver wreath as a symbolic gesture.
"You made us proud," Voulgarakis told the driver, who replied "I am pleased that you feel that way. I did my duty and I am glad that I also honored Greece."
Psaradakis then gave the minister a description of the dramatic moments he experienced immediately after the blast which reduced the bus to wreckage.
"The sight was terrible. I thought I was standing before a slaughterhouse, but I did not loose my calm and I tried to help my passengers. I feel lucky that I survived. It was a miracle and I attribute it to the Virgin Mary. I have her icon beside me in the bus when I am driving," he said.
Why on earth did he wear his bus driver uniform to meat the minister and recieve his medal?
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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karlos wrote: |
Why on earth did he wear his bus driver uniform to meat the minister and recieve his medal? |
Is it to remind all he is a bus driver not a marathon runner?
What actual evidence do we have he ever drove the bus?
None.
All we have is a picture of himself leaving the bus dressed in a bus uniform.
I mean the route has tens of road cameras along it yet not one has him in the drivers seat.
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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7/7 victims told: Therapy cash has run out
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23421959-details/77+vic tims+told:+Therapy+cash+has+run+out/article.do
The Government has been accused of betraying 7/7 victims after it emerged it has stopped funding psychological support for traumatised survivors of the terror attacks.
People left mentally scarred by their experiences during the 2005 bombings have been told they no longer qualify for priority help - and have been advised to visit their GPs instead.
Campaigners warned the move could even drive people still suffering from post traumatic shock to suicide. Many face year-long waits for mental health treatment on the NHS.
Opposition MPs have demanded that ministers reverse the decision to stop funding the Trauma Response Programme, set up two years ago.
Shadow health minister Mike Penning told the Evening Standard: "It was brave enough for these people to seek help in the first place.
"Continuity is vital in treating them but now they will be put back in the system without knowing what will happen to them.
"This is a betrayal of the victims of 7/7," he said.
Mind, the mental health charity, said it was another example of how mental health services were a low priority for the Government.
The attacks on London's transport network were Britain's largest mass casualty event since the Second World War, killing 56 people and injuring 775. Countless more were psychologically scarred by what they witnessed.
At least 900 survivors have been treated by the programme.
Clinical psychologists, including those from University College London and the Maudsley, have helped people suffering from symptoms of post traumatic stress, such as flashbacks, nightmares and anxiety.
The withdrawal of funding means that 7/7 patients will no longer get priority treatment and will have to join NHS waiting lists, which in some areas are more than a year long.
Jacqui Putnam, a survivor of the Edgware Road bombing, said: "I feel very let down. This should be a priority service and the fear is there will be suicides because people will not be getting the help they need."
A report on the programme's performance is due to be published in the Journal of Traumatic Stress next month.
It found that many survivors were left suffering from travel phobia and major depression after seeing people dead and maimed in the blasts.
But it concluded that at least four out of every five patients have benefited from the "psychological first aid" as well as more intensive therapy that the programme offers.
Professor Anke Ehlers, one of the report's authors, said: "This specialist treatment is so important because trauma can lead to relationship breakdown and destroy people's lives."
The report recommends that the NHS should fund a network of specially trained psychologists who would be on stand-by to help survivors of future national disasters.
But the Standard has learned the NHS has already rejected this proposal.
A spokesman for the Department of Health spokesman said the programme had been established by the health service to "offer support to adults and children who suffered trauma-related mental health problems in the aftermath of the 7 July bombings".
He added: "This was a unique response to an unprecedented event and although the programme has come to an end, all those who need help will still receive help from the NHS.
"The World Health Organisation regards our mental health services as among the best in Europe and the NHS will do all it can to support those who need it most."
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astro3 Suspended
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 274 Location: North West London
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Can Karlos kindly explain how he happened to be reading a Cretan newspaper? The testimony of the bus driver's uncle that Mr P. told him, that he had only seen two dead beside his bus before embarking on his 6-mile stroll is quite interesting. Can we have the name of the newspaper, in Greek or English, plus date and page?
There are of course 13 names of the dead in the memorial at Tavistock Square. The testimony of Stephanie Riakakuei has 'at east seven' dead there that morning: (Telegraph 8th July). She works on the corner of Tavistock Square in the UCL Psychology Dept, I tried to get an interview with her but she declined...
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TonyGosling Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
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Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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karlos wrote: |
Obviously it wont come as a surprise because we have all tried this before but 118118.com and bt.com have no trace of Searched for Psaradakis in London let alone Darville Road.
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Well, if you look on 192.com you will see that he and his wife are listed in Darville Road on the electoral roll. Either he has no land line or is ex-directory, like so many people.
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:02 am Post subject: |
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Bushwacker wrote: |
Well, if you look on 192.com you will see that he and his wife are listed in Darville Road on the electoral roll. Either he has no land line or is ex-directory, like so many people. |
Yes and that they are no longer resident at that address.
You will note that their new location is unknown.
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: |
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astro3 wrote: | Can Karlos kindly explain how he happened to be reading a Cretan newspaper? | http://www.greeknewsonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid =3528
A Greek man emerged as one of the key witnesses in Thursday’s terrorist attacks in London after it was revealed that he had been driving the bus which was ripped apart by one of the bombs, killing at least 13 passengers.
Giorgos Psaradakis, 47, dramatically survived the explosion on the number 30 bus as it was passing Tavistock Square in central London. He escaped with minor injuries and was discharged from hospital after a few hours. “I am just relieved to be here,” the AP news agency quoted him as saying, “Many other people have not been so fortunate. I feel for the people who have perished and for their families,” said Psaradakis, originally from Hania in Crete.
His bus had been diverted because of the earlier explosions on underground trains and Psaradakis said that this led to a stream of passengers boarding the bus. “There were many people who were trying to get on the bus at once,” he said, “Suddenly there was a bang, then carnage. Everything seemed to happen behind me.”
Meanwhile, the Athens News Agency reported details about conversations that he had with his family in Greece in the aftermath of the bombing. “He told me that he was fine. He said that two passengers were killed and that a girl died in his arms,” said Yiannis Paterakis, his uncle. “Giorgos told me that he had a saint looking out for him,” said his aunt Argyroula.
Meanwhile, it also emerged that two Cypriots were injured in the blasts. Phillipos Patsalos, a 53-year-old university professor, was in a critical condition after losing one of his legs in the bombings, while 19-year-old Daniella Kolia was in a stable condition in hospital. The death toll in the attacks is likely to exceed 50 people, the Metropolitan Police in London said.
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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astro3 Suspended
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 274 Location: North West London
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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It seems that there may be only one really authentic testimony for what hapened on that 30 bus, and that comes from the Australian Tania Calibrese. Her testimony hints at actually seeing the terrorist agents, so let's quote it in full. Sitting on the middle of the top deck with her boyfriend she has no idea that a bomb has gone off. It was printed on July 10th Quote: | Tania Calabrese, 29, and Tony Cancellera, 34, were sitting on the top deck of the No. 30 double-decker bus when it exploded near Tavistock Square in London.
Two other Australians, Catherine Klestov, 26, of Brisbane, and Louise Barry, 23, of Port Stephens, also survived the bus bomb. Ms Calabrese, of Five Dock, Sydney, held on to the seat in front as the bus collapsed around her and debris flew. Her boyfriend, of Leichhardt, was thrown by the blast and knocked unconscious. Ms Calabrese described the horror around the bus as she searched the street for her missing boyfriend.
"I only realised Tony wasn't next to me when I got off the bus," she said. "I was walking around and then I saw all the dead people everywhere. Then I started freaking out and realising what had happened and realised that he wasn't there. I went around the back of the bus. He wasn't there but there were people all over the road. There were bits of bodies. I don't know if they were male or female. There were people with missing legs, pieces of body chunks with clothes on them, people hanging from the top of the back of the bus with bits of clothes hanging off them."
The couple were sitting in the middle of the top deck of the bus, opposite the stairs, when the explosion occurred. They had been travelling from their West London home to work in the City of London when the attacks took place. Ms Calabrese said she had no idea the bus had been bombed, and initially thought they had been involved in a traffic accident. "I don't remember a bang," Ms Calabrese said. "I didn't hear anything. It was just like a violent shaking. It felt like a really bad car accident. I thought something had hit us from behind. Then the shaking was uncontrollable. I couldn't control my eyes. As soon as I felt the impact blood flew out of my nose metres in front of me. I remember grabbing on to the railing in front of me while the bus was shaking.
"I was thinking, 'OK this is going to stop', but then I could hear creaking metal and the floor around my seat started falling down. I just held on to the chair in front of me. The floor started slowly twisting and I ended up not that high off the ground. I couldn't walk down the stairs because the bus was flattened. I just jumped off. I landed on the floor and looked around. It was so quiet it was freaky. There was something like smog all around but it was actually fibres from the seats so there was like dust everywhere and black smoke.
"It was really quiet, and there were people lying all over the floor. There were people with cuts on their faces and everyone had nosebleeds. I was holding on to my face as well." Realising that a catastrophic event had happened, Ms Calabrese searched for her boyfriend. "I don't know how long it took to find Tony. It seemed like forever but it might have only been two minutes," she said. "I was screaming and calling out his name. I finally saw him on the road from a distance. When I got to him, his eyes were flickering and his body was convulsing. His head was in a puddle of blood.
"He looked like he was in one piece but he was completely out of it. I was screaming for him to wake up and then a man showed up. I screamed, 'Please help me. This is my partner'. The man leant down with me to help Tony, and then I freaked out, and for some reason I decided I had to look for my handbag. I don't know why. I went running around and came back without it, and then Tony started to wake up. It was really quiet but maybe that was because I was deafened by the blast. I couldn't hear anything except screams.
"All my clothes were ripped and the hem on my pants was blown off by the blast as well as the buckles on my shoes. My jacket was ripped everywhere and my scarf had blood all over it. They put us in an ambulance because they were worried about Tony's back and his head. They wrapped him in padding and put him on a stretcher and took us to hospital."
They have been released from University College Hospital, but as they lay in beds there on Thursday night the couple were interviewed by police. Authorities were eager to glean any information the Sydney couple may have had about the events leading up to the explosion, especially as it was unclear whether the bomb was detonated remotely or was the work of a suicide attack. There were suspicions that a male and female couple had fled the bus moments before the explosion, indicating that two terrorists may have been sitting next to those they would murder moments later.
The mystery couple were originally sitting at the back of the top deck. They fled as it sat in the traffic around Kings Cross and Russell Square Underground stations, where a bomb had earlier exploded below the streets.
"We saw two people run off the bus before the bomb went off," Mr Cancellera said. | (http://www.pbase.com/image/45940965)
Later accounts try to make out that she saw Hasib Hussein, but that is clearly not what she was saying.
A different acount has her important testimony, that the police were putting up their tape across the road before the bomb went off:(; Daily Mail, ‘The real Faces of 7/7,’ 7.7.06. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_artic le_id=394473&in_page_id=1770) Quote: | I noticed there were police putting up tape to block off the street. There were a lot of people getting off just before it happened. I can't remember hearing it go off, I just remember a vacuum and being thrown forward. |
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: |
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more clear evidence of police foreknowledge
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