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astro3
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 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Concerning Blackcat's query about how the 4 could have caught the 07.42 from Luton, as the 07.40 was cancelled, and why does the video not say that? Well yes they could, but that got into King's Cross at 08.37 which was way too late to get onto the tubes they were supposed to catch - all trains on that Thameslink line suffered severe delays that morning. The gist of Muad's argument here is therefore sound. |
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| stelios wrote: | This documentary contains several things i personally have not seen before neither here nor on the J7 website.
It contains an ITN interview with Richard Jones which does not appear to be anywhere else - or at least i have not seen it before.
Other than the New Zealand news report there is also a Canadian News report and the fact that the Canary Wharf incident was reported once on Sky news.
It cannot be denied that it happened.
Simply that the official narative took over and further coverage of the Canary Wharf incident was suppresed. |
Or that it was a false report and it never happened. It it was a report of a person or persons fitting the description of one or more of the WY4 being bundled into a back of van in a quiet side-street, it might still carry some weight, but the idea that one, two, or three people were shot dead in a busy open area like Canary Wharf and it could be kept secret is simply not credible.
| Quote: | The assumptions about Richard Jones and his explosives factory aprenticeship are in my view a red herring as he clearly is a non existant person. As the docu states if he was genuine the police would not have allowed him to talk freely to the media.
The assumptions about Kingstar too are in my view wrong and a deliberate red herring as is the advert for the film The Descent - an excellent movie. |
I think we can both agree that we agree on both these points. The simple fact is that coincidences do happen and they are nothing more than that. |
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| astro3 wrote: | | This new video predicts that CCTV pics of the 4 were taken in London, especially at King’s Cross? Muad's theory is, that the four arrived too late – so, any refusal to show the CCTV by the police, would only be because it had the wrong timestamp on. Does that make sense? |
Not really, as it would hardly be difficult to fake a timestamp, or simply to crop out the "real" one. |
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astro3
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Muad's video has the four at King’s Cross coming to realise how they had been duped, and we wonder when they might have heard about ‘the bombs’ going off? Would persons coming out of the Russel Square-King’s Cross Piccadilly line have known that a bomb went off? Only those from the rear carriages came out at King’s Cross (we are told). Maybe by say 9.30 three of them began to realise their dire predicament (Hasib having split off from them).
They would have tried to use their mobiles, or rung someone they knew. Were mobiles blocked from working over this crucial period? | Quote: | | The mobile phone networks did not work in the first hours after the bombings ... Were the networks deliberately closed down? Timesonline 18.12.05, Rachel North ‘The July 7th Questions that Still Haunt victims’ |
The story of a ‘power surge’ is put out until about 11 o’clock – a whole hour after the bus has blown up. Was it that the bomb story could not be broadcast until the four had been ‘dealt with?’ We may suppose that they had something on them that made them trackable.
Did mobile phones start working again after 10.30? Once the four had been dealt with, the authorities could permit the phone system to come on again. Here is a discussion of 'Mobile Phone Networks Access Overload Control in the aftermath of the July 7th 2005 terrorist attacks in London', on the Mayor of london blog:
| Quote: | | What is not acceptable is the apparent lack of coordination between the Metropolitan Police "Gold Command" who were nominally in charge of the emergency, and the City of London Police (presumably one of the "Silver Commands"), who for their own understandable reasons got the O2 mobile phone network to implent Access Overload Control (ACCOLC) , in an area of about 1 kilometer around Aldgate Tube station i.e. covering much of the City of London, in spite of the decision by Gold Command not to impose ACCOLC in the same area at the request of the London Ambulance Service. |
'ACCOLC allows the mobile telephone networks to restrict access in a specific area to registered numbers only and is normally invoked by the Police Incident Commander' (Wikipedia)
In plain language, the police closed down mobile networks around the City as soon as the young men (‘bombers’) apprehended what had happened and three of them decided to flee, going Eastwards. This probably had to last an hour or so, until they had been bumped off.
www.mayor-of-London.co.uk/blog/2006/06/mobile_phones_networks_access_o verload_control_london_july_7th_2005.html
How come they ended up at Canary wharf? Only a few buses were running. If the DLR was still running, they would have had to get over to Bank to catch it to Canary Wharf. Muad conjectures that they wanted to tell their story to someone. The Independent’s offices are just there, at 191 Marsh Wall.
Its odd that The Independent never mentioned the event which took place on its own doorstep.
...................................................................... ................................
PS, A crucial verification of Muad's story, would be if perchance someone could access the BBC announcement that morning, and did it really state, 'three of the terrorists involved in the bombings have been shot and killed' (as his video says)? |
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kbo234
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Muad's narrative is far, far, far more credible than the official one.
I've always believed those poor guys were patsies. For two main reasons; one, because of the truth many of us now know about how the hidden powers engineered 9/11 and two, because the 'war on terror' meme desperately needed such a mass human sacrifice in the UK to sustain its credibility to an increasingly skeptical public mind.
Of course, all the details exposed so effectively in the film and the government's refusal to hold an inquiry into 7/7 cry out 'inside job'.
How much longer can these criminals keep getting away with stuff like this?
Like 9/11, the reality is astonishing but.......there you are........the facts speak for themselves.
The facts of 7/7 are these:
Mohammed Sidique Khan, Shehzad Tanweer, Germaine Lindsay and Hasib Hussain were completely innocent men, murdered, along with 52 equally innocent British civilians, by the very b*stards who claim to be protecting us all. |
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karlos
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Staraker wrote: |
but the idea that one, two, or three people were shot dead in a busy open area like Canary Wharf and it could be kept secret is simply not credible.
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But it is NOT a secret.
It was reported by a Reuters correspondent. In two newspapers, one in Canada, one in New Zealand and was carried on Sky News. (i dont think the film implied it was on the BBC please correct me if it did)
We know for a fact that all tv broadcast must by law be archived. But the BBC and others have shown scant regard for this rule as they deleted the WTC7 footage and other footage, such as the Buncefield bombed reports.
Clearly it would be surprising if armed response units were not hovering around rounding up stray muslims that day.
The forex dealers and office staff may well have been glued to their screens as Sterling was taking a dive and people were watching the news. Very few would have been gaving out the windows. Modern offices are sound and windprofofed too.
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| astro3 wrote: | | Muad's video has the four at King’s Cross coming to realise how they had been duped, and we wonder when they might have heard about ‘the bombs’ going off? Would persons coming out of the Russel Square-King’s Cross Piccadilly line have known that a bomb went off? Only those from the rear carriages came out at King’s Cross (we are told). Maybe by say 9.30 three of them began to realise their dire predicament (Hasib having split off from them). |
The video would have us believe that the WY4 were willingly recruited into a training exercise , about which they appear to have told nobody, hundreds of miles from where they lived. This would make them very very gullible or stupid. At the same time, we are expected to believe that within a very tight timescale they manage to work out exactly what happened and that their lives are in danger, which would make them incredibly perceptive and intelligent. Hmmm....
| Quote: | They would have tried to use their mobiles, or rung someone they knew. Were mobiles blocked from working over this crucial period? | Quote: | | The mobile phone networks did not work in the first hours after the bombings ... Were the networks deliberately closed down? Timesonline 18.12.05, Rachel North ‘The July 7th Questions that Still Haunt victims’ |
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Except that the networks were not closed down, either at the time in question or in the area the men are supposed to be.
| Quote: | | The story of a ‘power surge’ is put out until about 11 o’clock – a whole hour after the bus has blown up. Was it that the bomb story could not be broadcast until the four had been ‘dealt with?’ |
Have you actually got any proof of that? It's my recollection that pretty much as soon as the bus explosion was reported, the broadcast media were assuming that the Underground explosions were linked.
| Quote: | | We may suppose that they had something on them that made them trackable. |
We may also suppose they were actually lying on a beach in the Bahamas at the time.
| Quote: | Did mobile phones start working again after 10.30? Once the four had been dealt with, the authorities could permit the phone system to come on again. Here is a discussion of 'Mobile Phone Networks Access Overload Control in the aftermath of the July 7th 2005 terrorist attacks in London', on the Mayor of london blog:
| Quote: | | What is not acceptable is the apparent lack of coordination between the Metropolitan Police "Gold Command" who were nominally in charge of the emergency, and the City of London Police (presumably one of the "Silver Commands"), who for their own understandable reasons got the O2 mobile phone network to implent Access Overload Control (ACCOLC) , in an area of about 1 kilometer around Aldgate Tube station i.e. covering much of the City of London, in spite of the decision by Gold Command not to impose ACCOLC in the same area at the request of the London Ambulance Service. |
'ACCOLC allows the mobile telephone networks to restrict access in a specific area to registered numbers only and is normally invoked by the Police Incident Commander' (Wikipedia)
In plain language, the police closed down mobile networks around the City as soon as the young men (‘bombers’) apprehended what had happened and three of them decided to flee, going Eastwards. This probably had to last an hour or so, until they had been bumped off.
www.mayor-of-London.co.uk/blog/2006/06/mobile_phones_networks_access_o verload_control_london_july_7th_2005.html |
You seem to have conveniently missed the quote in the above that makes it clear that the ACCOLC request was made at 12:00, and only applied to the O2 network.
| Quote: |
How come they ended up at Canary wharf? Only a few buses were running. If the DLR was still running, they would have had to get over to Bank to catch it to Canary Wharf. Muad conjectures that they wanted to tell their story to someone. The Independent’s offices are just there, at 191 Marsh Wall.
Its odd that The Independent never mentioned the event which took place on its own doorstep. |
Riiiiggghhhttt.... So a bunch of clueless out-of towners (even the video describes them as "fish out of water") managed to get halfway across a London clogged with thousands of people leaving the centre on foot, to a specific location, when virtually no public transport was running? The J7 timeline has DLR services in east London resuming at 16:32 - I think we can safely assume that the DLR was not conveniently running out of Bank when you want it to have been. More to the point, why specifically The Independent, and how would they even know where to go in the first place? Like so many wild theories, this one fails because it throws up more questions than it answers.
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...................................................................... ................................
PS, A crucial verification of Muad's story, would be if perchance someone could access the BBC announcement that morning, and did it really state, 'three of the terrorists involved in the bombings have been shot and killed' (as his video says)? |
Well, I'm sure if nobody can find it, it will be deemed to have been "suppressed." I love the way these theories are illogically bolstered by a lack of proof. |
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | | Staraker wrote: |
but the idea that one, two, or three people were shot dead in a busy open area like Canary Wharf and it could be kept secret is simply not credible.
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But it is NOT a secret.
It was reported by a Reuters correspondent. |
He was only identified as an "employee," not a correspondent.
| Quote: | | In two newspapers, one in Canada, one in New Zealand and was carried on Sky News. (i dont think the film implied it was on the BBC please correct me if it did) |
The transcript says just "TV".
| Quote: | | We know for a fact that all tv broadcast must by law be archived. |
Absolute and total rubbish. TV broadcasters are not under any legal obligation to keep anything. They keep a lot more now than they used to, but that is a separate issue.
| Quote: | | But the BBC and others have shown scant regard for this rule as they deleted the WTC7 footage and other footage, such as the Buncefield bombed reports. |
Prove it.
| Quote: | | Clearly it would be surprising if armed response units were not hovering around rounding up stray muslims that day. |
So where are the reports of them doing this?
| Quote: | | The forex dealers and office staff may well have been glued to their screens as Sterling was taking a dive and people were watching the news. Very few would have been gaving out the windows. Modern offices are sound and windprofofed too. |
SO why were they "warned" as claimed? |
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kbo234
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Staraker wrote: |
The video would have us believe that the WY4 were willingly recruited into a training exercise , about which they appear to have told nobody, hundreds of miles from where they lived. This would make them very very gullible or stupid. At the same time, we are expected to believe that within a very tight timescale they manage to work out exactly what happened and that their lives are in danger, which would make them incredibly perceptive and intelligent. Hmmm....
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If the offer of participation was made by the police, whom Khan often helped and presumably trusted.....and if they were given a 'project manager' Haroon Aswat........how would that make them very gullible or stupid?
For failing to understand that the nice police were sending them to be murdered? For not guessing that Aswat was an MI6 agent?
Having missed their tube trains and hearing that real explosions had taken place on the underground are you saying that a person has to be "incredibly perceptive and intelligent" to realise that they are in extreme danger?
It seems you are.
Cut the cr*p, Staraker. If your mission is to rubbish everything put up on this site, I think you need a little more in-house training. |
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | Staraker wrote: |
The video would have us believe that the WY4 were willingly recruited into a training exercise , about which they appear to have told nobody, hundreds of miles from where they lived. This would make them very very gullible or stupid. At the same time, we are expected to believe that within a very tight timescale they manage to work out exactly what happened and that their lives are in danger, which would make them incredibly perceptive and intelligent. Hmmm....
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If the offer of participation was made by the police, whom Khan often helped and presumably trusted.....and if they were given a 'project manager' Haroon Aswat........how would that make them very gullible or stupid? |
Ah! So now the West Yorkshire Police are in on it?
| Quote: | | For failing to understand that the nice police were sending them to be murdered? For not guessing that Aswat was an MI6 agent? |
I would call anyone who - if we are to believe - gets roped into something like this and apparently asks no questions and says nothing - let alone voices any doubts - to anyone else pretty stupid. "Sure, Hasib, we want you to carry a fake bomb into London as part of a massive security exercise that isn't be publicised in the slightest." That's stupidity on a par with drug couriers who claim that, "I was only taking this suitcase back for a friend. I had no idea it have 20kg of heroin in it, and I never even thought to look."
| Quote: | Having missed their tube trains and hearing that real explosions had taken place on the underground are you saying that a person has to be "incredibly perceptive and intelligent" to realise that they are in extreme danger?
It seems you are. |
I am saying that there was no time for them to reach that conclusion and get to Canary Wharf within the claimed timeframe.
OK, let's assume that what the video claims actually happened. How would it actually pan out? Presumably since the author of the video fixates on the cancelled 07:40 from Luton, he assumes the WY4 got the next available train, i.e. the 07:48, which actually left at 07:56 and arrived at K-X Thameslink at 08:42 (obviously we'd better ignore the reality of the delayed 08:30 leaving at 08:42 and getting in at 08:39). If the supposed exercise is based on them catching trains at certain times, what would they do if they arrive late? Surely they would have been briefed with a contingency plan? If not, that leaves them either standing around at K-X Thameslink like lemons, wondering what to do, or on the own initiative they decide to head for their allotted Tube lines, anyway. We can just as easily assume that they leave immediately, as they will have realised they'd be late while still on the train, and so be prepared before arrival.
The Underground station is 4 minutes walk away, so they get there at around 08:46 and split up. Presumably GL has to dawdle enough to avoid getting the fated Piccadilly line train, and ends up standing on the platform waiting. MSK and ST have already missed their trains, but will similarly end up on the platforms, waiting. GL may actually hear the explosion and see the "smoke" (actually displaced tunnel dust) coming from the tunnel, but of course will have no idea immediately if it is a "real" bomb, or just "special effects" for the "drill". For MSK & ST, the only indication that anything is wrong is that the trains stop running. How much time must pass before these three men individually start to get "suspicious". More to the point, why will they immediately fear "the worst," when they have no way of knowing that actual bombs have exploded, rather than just assuming that the "drill" is going on without them? In the case of GL & ST, they may even assume that there are details of the "exercise" of which the supposed leader, MSK, has not informed them. Even close to an actual explosion, GL will have no idea that the activity around him is "real" and not the "drill", even to the point of the Code Amber being declared at 09:15 and stations being evacuated.
So, either they end up being evacuated at 09:15 and meet on the surface, or one or more of them realises they have been "set up" and seeks out the others beforehand. Considering the almost total lack of information available to them to jutify this course of action, and having to negotiate the complex and unfamiliar territory of the Underground station, it would be practically impossible for this to happen in less than 20 minutes after the explosions. Similarly, if we track back and assume the alternative that the same three are still standing around like rabbits-in-headlights at K-X Thameslink, it's still not going to dawn on them that it's all gone horribly wrong before 09:10 at the earliest.
So what do they do? The video wants us to think that they - for some unknown reason - end up at Canary Wharf in time to be shot at 10:30. How exactly do they do this? The Underground stops running at 09:15, so they're not going to get far on that, even if they start moving at 09:10 and on the one line running from K-X even vaguely goes in the right direction. A cursory check of the TfL Journey Planner shows that they'd be looking at two or three bus journey lasting between 01:15 and 01:28, even assuming that these "fish out of water" miraculously manage to work out exactly which buses to take. If the start moving at 09:10 and take, say, ten minutes to get out of which station they are in and find the right bus stop, they get to Canary Wharf at 10:35 at the very earliest. Except, of course, that traffic is crawling, and the bus service overwhelmed. If they get out and walk, it's going to take them even longer. They may, of course, have tried to take a taxi, but one group that do not seem to come off well in all this is taxi drivers, so we can make our own judgements about how easy it would have been for dodgy-looking characters with rucksacks to have managed that and not get noticed in the process.
| Quote: | | Cut the cr*p, Staraker. If your mission is to rubbish everything put up on this site, I think you need a little more in-house training. |
You think it takes "training" to be able to pick holes in this sort of nonsense? Anyway, who am I supposed to be working for this week? I had a pork pie last night, so presumably it's not MOSSAD.... |
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karlos
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: |
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How do we know there were any backpacks or any dummy explosive?
They may have been told to simply meet up at a certain place at a certain time. Only problem is the train was cancelled making them late.
It could be that they are simply carrying their packed lunch in their duffle bags.
We really dont know but ofcourse they were not likely to have been given real highly volatile TAPT to carry, knowing that they may have caused an explosion on route or may have peeked and discovered they were not on their way to a tv gameshow. |
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | How do we know there were any backpacks or any dummy explosive?
They may have been told to simply meet up at a certain place at a certain time. |
That would seem contrary to the aim of the supposed exercise. If their part of the exercise is to behave like terrorists, having them turn up in shorts and T-shirts, and carrying nothing suitable for transporting a bomb, isn't very realistic. The corollary of this is that if, on the other hand, it wasn't important that they looked or acted the part, then why specifically recruit a bunch of Asian/black Muslims from Leeds in the first place?
| Quote: | | Only problem is the train was cancelled making them late. |
Although an earlier train left two minutes after the time the cancelled one was due to leave, and so effectively replaced it. |
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karlos
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Steve Talevski, 32, of Stapleton Hall Road, was on his way to a meeting in Parsons Green when the bomb exploded just after his Circle Line train had pulled out of Liverpool Street.
"There was a bang, louder than you can imagine, a noise so big that I felt like a punch in the face," he is reported to have said.
"The train banged to a halt and I was thrown into the person next to me. Then came blackness, followed by the smell of flesh, gunpowder and burning rubber. For a few seconds there was silence. And then the moans and screams began from the other end of the carriage."
The dust settled to reveal a harrowing scene of carnage.
"There was a hole ripped in the carriage's side near the double doors. A man lay on the floor, apparently alive, with the bloodied body of a woman on top of him," he recalled. "Through the dust at least four other lifeless bodies began to take shape. I looked up and saw that the ceiling had been destroyed. Wires and metal hung across the carriage. Some windows had been blown away."
He escaped down the tunnel, seeing severed limbs lying across the tracks.
from the Hornsey Journal |
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TonyGosling
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paul wright
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder what Staraker gets out of all this. I wonder what his interest is.
I wonder why people bother to engage him. Haven't most of us been on this ride once too often?
I wonder why he doesn't just piss off
| Quote: | | Although an earlier train left two minutes after the time the cancelled one was due to leave, and so effectively replaced it. |
Actually 16 minutes being late. Der
Oh and the change to the official story that they actually caught the 7.23 which actually left at 7.25 gives them a three minute space to go jogging their backpacks full of highly reactive TATP to catch that train, even if they hadn't bought their return tickets. What bullcrap, Staraker, what nonsense
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karlos
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:22 am Post subject: |
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David Gibbs, 31, who just moved to London from the West Country, said: "At first we all thought it was just a routine fire drill when they told us to evacuate the Underground (Euston) and there were the usual grumbles of irritation. But then when the announcer told us to leave the main station, his voice sounded much tenser and there was a definite sense all was not alright.
"Just as I got outside there was a thudding explosion from somewhere nearby, which sent my heart rate soaring. Minutes later the streets were in chaos. People were going in all directions. Some people were in tears but there was no panic, just general bewilderment."
Chaos reigned across the nation's capital as public transport ground to a halt disgorging bewildered residents onto the streets where sirens wailed and confusion reigned.
ok so obviously there was some kind of foreknowledge
why would they evacuate BEFORE the explosion?
they didnt know there was going to be an explosion
dont forget the accountant David Lee who was in the process of evacuating his offices and ws halfway down the stairs when he heard the explosion
it is therefore undeniable, if these reports are trustworthy, that there was no warning of these attacks. Offices dont get evacuated for no reason.
Ofcourse if the evacuations were part of a drill then the drill is more than the pretend paper exercise.
How you do a pretend paper fire drill or a pretend paper mouth to mouth resusitation i dont know.
Evelyne Wade, 30, a Sloane Square estate agent, was on the Tube with her husband between King's Cross and Russell Square when one of the bombs exploded.
As she joined the crowds swarming away from the scene of the explosion, she told the journal what happened: "We just thought we were going to die. There was this big explosion and people were screaming. No one moved and the lights went out.
"We started to move to the next carriage. Then we got into King's Cross and there was an emergency room where the really badly injured were. Police there gave us water."
again the explosion only just happened
so how come an emergency room was already in operation?
surely it takes time for authorities to realise there has been a bomb and to get on the scene?
As in the bus bomb ambulances did not arrive for quite a while.
so the emergency room reay manned and runnning could have been prt of the drills
| staraker wrote: | | Ah! So now the West Yorkshire Police are in on it? |
It is widely reported that he was a police informant and had helped the police on a number of occasions. Police informants sometimes get promoted to special branch informants.
and sometimes get seconded to MI5
so it is highly plausible in this case too
it used to happen in Ulster all the time
Last edited by karlos on Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kbo234
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| dh wrote: | .....I wonder what Staraker gets out of all this.
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Uhmmm......money? |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | dh wrote: | .....I wonder what Staraker gets out of all this.
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Uhmmm......money? |
I hate the paid agent scenario. Its so applicable as a possibility to someone you disagree with, but having observed this one's monomanic obsession over the period, I have to agree
I'm not too sure, the 24/7 effect is confirmatory along with the one line, and I'm not sure this applies here
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karlos
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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As for the Mossad connection. Well obviously Verint as i have been saying for donkeys is run by mossad and shin beth officers. Fortress GB and ICTS the same.
so as these contractors had access to the tunnels, the trains and the cctv at both ends of the journey and at each of the bomb sites including tavistock square the head office for ICTS and Fortress GB.
So clearly there is a connection.
The explosives have been described as being the same as Mike's Place in Tel Aviv.
The video actually comes to similar conclusions.
Now if Al Queda are trying to implicate mossad - they appear to have dne a very good job |
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TonyGosling
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Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
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Mark Gobell
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | ICTS (UK) Ltd
| Quote: |
COMPANY OVERVIEW
Established in 1982, ICTS (UK) Ltd. is a subsidiary of ICTS Europe BV, part of the Fraport Group. With offices distributed throughout the United Kingdom and Ireland, ICTS (UK) Ltd. employs in excess of 2,000 people.
ICTS has two broad fields of operation. The first, 'Aviation Security', deals with all aspects of flight, passenger, baggage and cargo security. The second, 'Integrated Services', consists of services and solutions specifically designed for complex, public-access environments; particularly healthcare and academic institutions, transport hubs and corporate organisations. ICTS provides a comprehensive portfolio of managed personnel, training, technical development, information services and financial resources. |
I.C.T.S. (U.K.) LIMITED
Company Number: 02143366
Date of Incorporation: 30/06/1987
Entire shareholding owned by:
ICTS Europe Holdings BV
London Building
1101 AA Amsterdam
Netherlands
Registered Office:
8 BAKER STREET
LONDON
W1U 3LL
London Office:
ICTS (UK) Limited
South Block, Entrance D
Tavistock House
Tavistock Square
London
WC1H 9LG
Previous Name: RAPID 3419 LIMITED
Name Changed: 23/07/1987
Nature Of Business (SIC(92)): 7487 - Other business activities
Current Appointments:
Number of current appointments: 7
Secretary: LEWIS, BEN JOSEPH MSC FCA MR
Appointed: 28/02/1993
Nationality: BRITISH
No. of Company appointments: 20
Address: Edgware, Middx
Director: ELDAR, ZAMIR - Business Manager (Head of European operations for ICTS.)
Appointed: 11/09/2003
Nationality: FRENCH
No. of Company appointments: 1
Address: Amsterdam, THE NETHERLANDS
Director: GOLAN, RON - Marketing Director
Appointed: 26/01/2006
Nationality: GERMAN
No. of Company appointments: 1
Address: London, NW3
Director: LEWIS, BEN JOSEPH MSC FCA MR - Finance Director
Appointed: 02/06/2003
Nationality: BRITISH
No. of Company appointments: 20
Address: Brighton, Sussex
Director: ROZANSKI, TECHAYAH - Security Manager
Appointed: 02/06/2003
Nationality: BRITISH
No. of Company appointments: 1
Address: Brighton, Sussex
Director: THORPE, JAYNE - Personnel Manager
Appointed: 02/06/2003
Nationality: BRITISH
No. of Company appointments: 1
Address: Sheffield, South Yorks.
Director: VAGO, GABRIEL - Computer Security Specialist
Appointed: 21/02/1993
Nationality: ISRAELI
No. of Company appointments: 1
Address: London. NW1
Note: Gabriel Vago, Director of ICTS UK Ltd and Director of Fortress GB, listed at the exact same address as Anat Eshet-Vago, Director of Fortress GB.
This Report excludes resignations
Recent Filing History (excluding accounts:)
FILING DATE FORM DESCRIPTION
02/04/2007 288c DIRECTOR'S PARTICULARS CHANGED
02/04/2007 363a RETURN MADE UP TO 01/07/06; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS
Mortgage Charge Details:
5 Outstanding
1 in the name of Mount Eden Land Ltd
1 in the name of Mount Cook Land Ltd
3 in the name of BANK LEUMI (U.K.) PLC - the largest Israeli-owned bank in the UK, subsidiary of Bank Leumi le-Israel BM
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| Quote: | FORTRESS (GB) LIMITED
| Quote: |
About Us
Fortress’ experience with smart cards originated in the 1990’s when implementations in public key cryptography (RSA) and conventional data encryptions (DES) were developed on a single chip. The revolutionary concepts in secure smart card technology reached during this period have been recognised worldwide by many blue-chip manufacturers.
Fortress leveraged this thorough knowledge of chip technology and shifted its focus to
top-end highly secure smart card applications such as those required for airport security including integration to biometric applications and hardware. This experience enabled Fortress to come forward with the RFID based next generation of frequent flyer programme.
These smart card solutions were initially installed at schools and campuses, creating a revolutionary offline solution that works as if online. This innovative solution increased efficiencies and substantially cut costs for clients. To date, the Smart Campus and School Solutions have been implemented at many sites around the UK either by Fortress or via their distributors and partners.
In 2001, Fortress embarked upon a journey to develop the best RFID based solution for venues. The resulting Smart Stadium and Venue Solution won the bid for the all new City of Manchester Stadium and was installed in time for the first Manchester City FC match played there during the 2002/3 season. The City of Manchester stadium became the first in the world to be a complete RFID stadium allowing all fans, corporate guests and staff to use RFID cards to gain access to the ground. The Smart Stadium and Venue Solution has since been implemented at over a quarter of all UK premiership football clubs, winning many others competitive bids such as Arsenal’s new Emirates Stadium to be open for the 2006/7 season.
Realising the need for such platform based multi-application solutions and the many benefits they offer, Fortress continues developing further applications to be added to these platforms utilising the most cutting-edge technology available on the market. |
Registered Office:
8 BAKER STREET
LONDON
W1U 3LL
Company Number: 03799095
Date of Incorporation: 01/07/1999
London Office:
Fortress GB - Head Office
South Block, Tavistock House
Tavistock Square
London
WC1H 9LG
Nature Of Business (SIC(92)): 7260 - Other computer related activities
Current Appointments:
Number of current appointments: 4
Secretary: PINNICK, RICHARD DANIEL
Appointed: 26/05/2007
Nationality: BRITISH
No. of Company appointments: 22
Address: London. N3
Director: ESHET-VAGO, ANAT
Appointed: 01/07/1999
Nationality: BRITISH
No. of Company appointments: 4
Address: London. NW1.
Note: Anat Eshet-Vago, listed at the exact same address as Gabriel Vago, Director of ICTS UK Ltd and Director of Fortress GB
Director: VAGO, GABRIEL
Appointed: 15/06/2001
Nationality: ISRAELI
No. of Company appointments: 3
Address: London, NW3
Director: WONG, KWAI CHOY
Appointed: 23/08/2005
Nationality: MALAYSIAN
No. of Company appointments: 65
Address: London. SW15
This Report excludes resignations
Recent Filing History (excluding accounts:)
FILING DATE FORM DESCRIPTION
25/10/2007 288b SECRETARY RESIGNED
25/10/2007 288b SECRETARY APPOINTED
04/08/2006 363s RETURN MADE UP TO 01/07/06; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS
Mortgage Charge Details:
2 Outstanding
2 in the name of BANK LEUMI (U.K.) PLC - the largest Israeli-owned bank in the UK, subsidiary of Bank Leumi le-Israel BM
The 363S Annual Return filed on 24 June 2006 provides the following details of Company Directors:
Company Secretary: James Rosenthal, London. NW4
Directors: Anat Eshet-Vago, Gabriel Vago and Kwai Choy Wong.
The 363S Annual Return filed on 24 June 2006 provides the following details of Shareholdings:
800,000 Ordinary shares
Amberley Group plc
15 Grosvenor Gardens
London SW1W 0BD
Amberley Group PLC’s principal asset is its investment in Fortress (GB) Limited (“Fortress”). Fortress is a leading provider of secure, multi-application smart card-based solutions for a variety of markets. Amberley currently owns a 17.6% stake in Fortress and has an option to increase its stake to 23.9%. Amberley Group Directors
3,733,500 Ordinary Class A shares
Andoma Investment Holdings Ltd
Wickhams Cay
PO Box 146
Road Town
Tortola
British Virgin Islands
28,000 Ordinary shares
Dubi Kol
London N2
500,000 Ordinary Class A shares
Merrion Dock Ltd
3 Old Street
St Helier
Jersey 78905
Channel Islands
The registered office of Merrion Dock Ltd is the same as that of The Basel Trust Corporation (Channel Islands) Limited and may well be an investment vehicle managed by them.
426,500 Ordinary Class B shares
M-Systems Flash Disk Pioneers Ltd
7 Atir Yeda Street
Kfar Sabar 44425
Israel
msystems Ltd
SanDisk Corporation
7 Atir Yeda St.
Kfar Saba 44425
Israel
Tel: 972/ 9 764 5000
URL: http://www.m-sys.com
Formerly known as:
M-Systems Flash Disk Pioneers Ltd.
250,000 Class A shares
Quorom Nominees
51 Helier
St Helier
Jersey
Channel Islands
50,000 Ordinary Class A shares
Warren Roiter
5-7 Broadhurst Gardens
London
NW6 3RZ
50,000 Ordinary Class A shares
John Zuker
5-7 Broadhurst Gardens
London
NW6 3RZ
Warren Roiter and John Zuker are both partners in Roiter Zucker Solicitors
Roiter Zucker Solicitors
Regent House
5-7 Broadhurst Gardens
Swiss Cottage
London
NW6 3RZ
|
I have omitted the full addresses and birth dates for all individuals and the recent filing entries for accounts.
_________________
The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan.
Last edited by Mark Gobell on Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ravenmoon
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 410
Location: Sheffield
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| dh wrote: | | I wonder what Staraker gets out of all this. I wonder what his interest is. |
CALLER TO ALEX JONES SAYS GOVERNMENT OPS ARE INFILTRATING CHAT ROOMS
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=113311
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GodSaveTheTeam
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 575
Location: the eyevolution
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karlos
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| GodSaveTheTeam wrote: | | Anyone know where I can find the 'panorama:london under attack' show that is featured in this film? |
We have tried, the BBC have deleted it.
Although somebody must have archived it somewhere.
Mark - thanks for posting the company stuff up.
I think it is pretty obvious these are Mossad controlled companies but more important is the fact that at each end of the chain Verint, Fortress GB and ICTS control the security, cctv, etc. Making this an inhouse deal.
People like Peter Power may have been outsiders employed to carry out the drills that occured at the same time as the bombs. Power being an ex Met officer would provide legitimate cover - meaning he would stand as a barrier between his 'clients' and the police investigating the bombings.
By hiring an insider they effectively blocked questions being asked about them.
Interestingly drills were also taking place in the US and Canada on 7/7
and guess what these same companies also have assets in the US and Canada.
when we include the facts that SO19 have been trained by Israelis and may have even had Israeli observers with them when the Stockwell shooting occured and the Canary Wharf shootings - we have to ask why has our government abdicated it's duty of care and handed over such a large part of our safety and security to overseas contractors who are run by rogue elements and who may have carried out the terror attacks themselves. |
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Mark Gobell
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 4529
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Airlines test out 'clean' lists
from the January 08, 2002 edition
US and British refine passenger 'profiling' methods post-9/11.
By Peter Ford | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
PARIS - Airlines are devising a new way of classifying their passengers, and it has nothing to do with first class or cattle class.
In tomorrow's security-conscious world, you will either volunteer personal information in advance to the airline you want to fly on - and get onto a "clean" list once your details are verified - or submit to lengthy questioning each time you board a plane.
US and British airlines are pioneering schemes - introduced since Sept. 11 - that allow their regular fliers who are on the computer to go straight through security with just a glance at an iris-identification machine.
Everyone else, increasingly is likely to have to go through the sort of "profiling" procedure that spotted alleged terrorist Richard Reid as a possible security threat before French police allowed him onto the flight from Paris to Miami. He is said to have tried to blow up that flight with a bomb in his shoe.
Racial profiling is outlawed in many US states. An Arab American member of President Bush's Secret Service detail is suing American Airlines for refusing him permission to fly with his handgun on Christmas Day, alleging that it was his ethnic origin that set off alarm bells.
But the FAA makes security profiling obligatory for all US international carriers.
The biggest firm in the profiling business is International Consultants for Targeted Security (ICTS), an Israeli company based in Holland whose employees at Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris found Mr. Reid so suspicious as he sought to board a Dec. 21 American Airlines flight that they turned him over to the French police. The police did not find Reid's name on a list of suspects, and his papers were in order, so they allowed him to fly the next day.
ICTS has contracts with more than 100 airlines worldwide, including many of the big US and European carriers, and employs 5,000 people at 50 airports in 12 European countries, according to Zamir Eldar, head of European operations for ICTS.
The company will not disclose the details of its profiling procedure, but the goal is "to profile each passenger, to determine whether he is a business or tourist passenger, or a potential terrorist," says Mr. Eldar.
Before check-in, each passenger on an airline that has contracted ICTS' profiling services is questioned in detail about his or her travel plans. ICTS employees are trained to look especially for passengers who bought their tickets with cash, or recently, who have one-way tickets, or who arrive late for a flight.
Their suspicions are also aroused by passengers who have no luggage to check, or whose baggage does not seem to "fit" - for example a young man who might be expected to carry a backpack, but who is instead carrying an expensive suitcase.
"A lot of it is in the nose," says John Beam, a former head of security for TWA who is now an independent air-safety consultant.
The questioning, based on a procedure developed by Israeli security officials at Tel Aviv airport, is often intrusive. Passengers are expected to give the names of people they have met and places they have visited during their travels, to explain exactly why they are flying, and to say where they have been staying.
Often, the questioning seems racially biased, betraying the security guards' own stereotypes.
"At ICTS," established by former Israeli security experts, "there was a general sense that all terrorists are Palestinians and all Palestinians are terrorists," says Mr. Beam, who hired the company to work with TWA in the 1980s. "Their standards were good, but they had tunnel vision."
The fear that security profiling can easily become racial profiling is behind US Transport Secretary Norman Mineta's refusal so far to institute profiling for all US domestic flights. Mr. Mineta spent time in an internment camp for Americans of Japanese origin during World War II.
It also explains why an airline such as British Airways does not rigorously profile its passengers. "It is very difficult," explains BA spokesman John Lampl. "We carry so many different people from different cultures and all four corners of the world, of every race, color, and creed, and we have to take that into account."
An element of racial profiling is bound to enter into any judgement about the risk a passenger poses, security experts say. "It's something that won't go away," says Beam. But "look who is doing the terrorism right now."
Of the 19 men believed to have carried out the Sept. 11 attacks, all were young Arab Muslim men, which focuses security guards' attention on all young Arab Muslim men when they fly.
"When this kind of population is already targeted as a potential risk it is very hard not to fall into racism," acknowledges Eldar.
One solution, he suggests, is for passengers - especially frequent flyers - to voluntarily put their names on an "approved" list, giving the airline all the details about themselves that they are asked for. They are then identified through biometric means, such as an iris scan, and can skip most security checks when they get to the airport.
ICTS is currently running a pilot project along these lines for Delta Airlines at London's Gatwick airport. And Virgin Atlantic will introduce a similar scheme later this month. "The idea is to put all the people travelling for business or tourism reasons into one safe box, and to put the others aside for the profiling system," says Eldar.
For the time being, the "approved" lists are valid only for specific airports and airlines. Eventually, Eldar envisages carriers and airports worldwide sharing and accepting each others' data, to create a global computerized roster of "safe" passengers. |
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0108/p1s2-woeu.html
_________________
The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
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Mark Gobell
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Not sure how up to date this list is.
Department of Transport list of approved security providers at UK airports:
From the list, ICTS provide security for various carriers at the following airports:
Belfast International
Birmingham T1
Bristol Airport
Cardiff Airport
Edinburgh
Gatwick North
Gatwick South
Glasgow
Heathrow T1
Heathrow T2
Heathrow T3
Heathrow T4
Manchester T1
Manchester T2
Manchester T3
Stansted
ICTS also has the Eurotunnel security contract.
ICTS also handles security at the Greenock Ocean Terminal.
ICTS also handle American Airlines security at Dublin and Shannon.
as well as South Bank Uni, Heathrow Connect (HEX) rail link
ICTS TOPS have Approved Installer Status for alarms & CCTV for the Metropolitan, Surrey, Bedford, Thames Valley, West Midland and Suffolk Police Forces.
| Quote: | In keeping with ICTS International N.V.’s objective of significantly expanding its presence in the USA, in January 1999 the company acquired the Huntleigh Corporation, which at the time of the acquisition was the fifth largest provider of airline passenger screening services in the United States. The addition of this subsidiary placed ICTS International N.V. in a unique position as a worldwide service provider to the aviation industry, with the ability to provide its clients with a broad spectrum of services spanning the Atlantic.
Based in St. Louis, Huntleigh operates at 36 US airports, including most of the international aviation gateways in the USA.
The services provided by ICTS/Huntleigh USA include security agents, charter flights security screening, skycap and wheelchair services, baggage Handling, Ticket Verification Agents, guards, ramp agents, passenger service agents, baggage Services Agents, Crew transport, baggage x-ray, aircraft search, Vendor Security Screening, and more. |
As has been understood for some time now, Huntleigh/ICTS had the security contracts at all of the airports on 9/11
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=32328
The UK based Maritime and Underwater Security Consultant, MUSC was acquired by ICTS
| Quote: | | MUSC won a contract in Nigeria to provide security consultancy for the new Brass LNG pipeline facility in the Niger Delta. |
Nigeria LNG's London offices are in Dean Farrar Street. Where the Queens Gate Building recently collapsed.
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=9677
Not to mention the numerous Nigeria pipeline "explosions" . . .
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=9902
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astro3
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Posts: 274
Location: North West London
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Here is a news item of the Panorama program, plus link to a transcript, will that do? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/3686201.stm
Surely we have established by now that ICTS Europe is an Israeli security company based in the Netherlands - I can't believe that Tony G asked that question.
Northern Line on July 7
On a different matter, I'm startled that Karlos has testimony of some kind of drill/evacuation at Euston (from 'David Gibbs') just before the event. There were loads of incidents on the Northern line that morning, but I didn't hear of one at Euston. A larger number of Northern line closures and power failures occurred, on the Bank and Barnett lines, with 8 trains stalled, as if something might have been planned there also, but did not. As Kirsty K recalled, ‘I got to Clapham North tube (on the Northern line) and the whole line was down – at 8:15am! Usually there are problems with this line, but in my 4 years in London I cannot last remember when the entire line was shut down.’
Official log for Northern line closures:
* 07.05 Bank – station closed due to security alert . Station closed and non-stopped due to an unattended bag on station. Station re-opened 07.27hrs, a 22 minute delay.
* 07.55 Kennington S36 delayed departing due to Train Operator requiring an urgent PNR. S354 reversed south to north at Moorgate in consequence. 6 minute delay.
* 08.33 Camden Town – station closed and non-stopped. Due to overcrowding station was closed and non-stopped. 5 minute delay.
* 08.51 Stations closed due to loss of power supply.
Angel, Kentish Town, Bank, Kings Cross, Camden Town and Old Street stations were closed and the City branch was suspended due to stations closing following a loss of local power supply. Mornington Crescent was closed due to lifts becoming defective and stalled with 20 customers who were released at 10.10hrs.
* 09.13 Stockwell – train became defective in service
S362 delayed departing due to no forward movement in car 51566. DMT and TM attended. Release taken. S364 and S21 were delayed in section. Train eventually departed empty to Clapham North. 37 minute delay.
Northern line log for Balham incident:
06.25 Balham – train became defective in service
06.30 T/Op confirms that the axle is glowing.
06.50 NA100 introduced with Station Supervisor made Silver Control.
08.54 Traction current switched on South Wimbledon to Balham northbound, Balham to Clapham Common northbound
09.00 A 68 train special service was in operation due to the defective train at Balham. Seven stations were closed due to loss of power supply
09.05 Northbound service restored. 160 minute delay
Thus a ‘silver’ level control is introduced (?). |
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numeral
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Posts: 500
Location: South London
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | A new programme has been developed for the introduction and implementation of revised incident management procedures (Na100). This includes new rules for implementing emergency arrangements and competence assurance for Gold and Silver control duties and improvements to safety critical communications in incident management situations. This programme is due to be completed by November 2007.
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http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/shec-papers-july-2006.pdf
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Nick Cooper
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Posts: 329
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| dh wrote: | I wonder what Staraker gets out of all this. I wonder what his interest is.
I wonder why people bother to engage him. Haven't most of us been on this ride once too often?
I wonder why he doesn't just piss off |
My, my, but doesn't that sound bitter? So it's okay for "people like you" to post your hare-brained and counter-factual nonsense 24/7, but woe-betide anyone who's prepared to point out that it's hare-brained and counter-factual nonsense....
Last edited by Nick Cooper on Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nick Cooper
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Posts: 329
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | dh wrote: | .....I wonder what Staraker gets out of all this.
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Uhmmm......money? |
Really? How much do I get? I haven't seen anything arriving in my Swiss bank account recently. Maybe I should give that nice Mr Evans a call and ask him where my ill-gotten gains are...? |
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