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stateofgrace
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Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 234
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 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:14 am Post subject: A reall peer reviewd thesis |
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A real peer reviewed thesis.
http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf
Reviewed by
Younane Abousleiman, Ph.D., University of Oklahoma
Ching S. Chang, Ph.D., P.E., University of Massachusetts
Joel P. Conte, Ph.D., P.E., University of California, San Diego
Henri Gavin, Duke University
Bojan B. Guzina, University of Minnesota
Christian Hellmich, Dr.Tech., Vienna University of Technology
Lambros Katafygiotis, Ph.D., Hong Kong University of Science and Technology
Nik Katopodes, Ph.D., University of Michigan
Robert J. Martinuzzi, P.E., University of Calgary
Arif Masud, Ph.D., University of Illinois, Chicago
Arvid Naess, Ph.D., Norwegian University of Science and Technology
Khaled W. Shahwan, Ph.D., DaimlerChrysler Corporation
Andrew Smyth, Ph.D., Columbia University
George Z. Voyiadjis, Ph.D., Louisiana State University
Yunping Xi, Ph.D., University of Colorado
Engineering Mechanics Division Executive Committee
Alexander H. D. Cheng, Ph.D., M.ASCE, Chair
James L. Beck, Ph.D., M.ASCE
Roger G. Ghanem, Ph.D., M.ASCE
Wilfred D. Iwan, M.ASCE
Chiang C. Mei, M.ASCE
Verna L. Jameson, ASCE Staff Contact |
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John White
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Yes, such an in depth and meticulously researched paper that it was written 48 hours after the towers collapsed...
NEXT!!
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stateofgrace
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| So bebunk it then. |
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John White
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:36 am Post subject: |
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bunk it yourself, if you know how...or is it just bandy cut n paste around without comprehension for you SoG?
As I said:
NEXT!!
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stateofgrace
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:38 am Post subject: |
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You're a gas pal , you know that, anything that gets in your way, simply dismiss.
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John White
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:31 am Post subject: |
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Whose dismissing it?
I'm simply commenting on it
However, if you see a paper produced within 48 hours of the events as definative, I can see that you would need to defend it from dismissal
Not so hasty myself
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Justin
9/11 Truth Organiser
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 500
Location: Cumbria / Yorkshire Dales
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Stateofgrace
Do I gather from this phrase that you live across the Pond and that you are one of the twenty per cent or so Americans who actually still support George W B? Just wondering..........
Out of interest, and wherever you are writing from, what are your opinions on Iran and do you believe that the War on Terror is as it is presented by the Pentagon, CIA and the White House?
Pray, please enlighten us about how you see the 'big picture'?
BTW, for that Paper to be ready so quickly after such a traumatic event which prevented most people from thinking straight for a week or so (including myself), IMHO it would suggest this Paper was prepared BEFORE 9/11.....just a guess.
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blackcat
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Yes, such an in depth and meticulously researched paper that it was written 48 hours after the towers collapsed... |
Remarkably quick - almost as if they were required to put their names and qualifications to a document to give it authenticity. Considering it took the government a year to begin an enquiry, and against its own wishes, this is really prompt work. I believe it though. I believe all those people are genuine as well. I believe everything I am told. Durrrr.
| Stateofgrace wrote: | | So bebunk it then |
Oh damn!! They got rid of all the steel!!! You must be right then. Durrrrr.. |
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stateofgrace
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Joined: 17 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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For god sake just ban me.
If you hadn't figure it out I was exceptionally drunk last night and rounded of the evening by taking the piss out of you guys.
Some of us were busy out enjoying ourselves last night and find it highly amusing to fire into you guys.
If you want to take the ranting and raving of a drunkard seriously feel free, I assure I don't.
I also assure you the further this world cup goes on , the more I will being celebrating and the more I will be inclined to return , so just save me the bother and ban me. |
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John White
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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You mean you were exceptionally drunk and took the piss out of yourself?
Dunno
Is massacism bannable?
Its really easy SoG: you after all are in control of your own central nervous system: never type "www.nineeleven.co.uk" again and you need never "see" this place again
However, regardless of how you personally exercise your choice, this site continues
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Last edited by John White on Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you hadn't figure it out I was exceptionally drunk last night |
As if anyone could tell the difference.  |
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physicist
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Hey, they didn't bother to calculate how long it would take to fall! Hence, they would have realised that the laws of gravity and conservation of momentum mean that it would take longer than it did. Also, when a falling object hits something solid, momentum is lost (actually transferred to the mass of The Earth), slowing it down even further.
Photograph of the failure of the south tower show that it had reached a significant elevation to the vertical, at least 15% I'd say. It had clearly developed significant angular momentum during the failure event (due to, err, fire or cutting charges) and it would have continued to rotate.
Anyway, it's all worth investigating a lot more thoroughly so that we can determine the truth.
The paper adds:
"An important puzzle at the moment is why the adjacent 46-story (sic) building, into which no significant amount of aircraft fuel could have been injected, collapsed as well. Despite the lack of data at present, the likely explanation seems to be that high temperatures (though possibly well below 800C) persisted on at least one floor of that building for a much longer time than specified by the current fire code provisions."
How unscientific to speculate in that way.
They are still working on an explanation for WTC7, mind. |
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physicist
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| stateofgrace wrote: | I was exceptionally drunk last night...
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You want to do something about that drink problem. |
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stateofgrace
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Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Out of interest, and wherever you are writing from, what are your opinions on Iran and do you believe that the War on Terror is as it is presented by the Pentagon, CIA and the White House? |
I am against any war against Iran and I am appalled by the war on terror, it has made the world a far more dangerous place for me and my family. I believe Bush is the worst president ever and is a war mongering idiot.
I fully support the anti war movement and believe he should be impeached for war crimes. He is personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent Iraq's.
The bs WMD presented by the Pentagon, the CIA and the White House was a pack of lies, they knew all along there were no such weapons.
He failed the people of the USA prior to 9/11 by ignoring all the warning. I believe they have used 9/11 to excuse all their war crimes.
I do not believe the Towers were brought down by explosives, that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon. I truly wish it could be proved he was part of it but simply cannot see 9/11 as being anything other than a dreadful terrorist attack.
| Quote: | | You want to do something about that drink problem. |
It's called having a life pal, going out and enjoying yourself, with friends and family, rather than festering on the Net all daylong trying to convince yourself that Bush, who is hated, was actually party to this.
Try it mate, go down the pub once in awhile, have a laugh now and again, it's amazing how suddenly life is worth living |
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scar
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Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | You mean you were exceptionally drunk and took the piss out of yourself?
Dunno
Is massacism bannable? |
ROFL!!! |
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stateofgrace
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Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They are still working on an explanation for WTC7, mind |
So why condem a report that is not yet complete ?
And why ignore the testominy from the fireman?
"The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse (Of the WTC towers) had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely" - Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/
Nigro_Daniel.txt
"Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area -- (Q. A collapse zone?) -- Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on. And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed." - Chief Cruthers
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/Cruthers.txt
"Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 [o'clock], that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, [we've] got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. (Q. Initially when you were there, you had said you heard a few Maydays?) Oh, yes. We had Maydays like crazy.... The heat must have been tremendous. There was so much [expletive] fire there. This whole pile was burning like crazy. Just the heat and the smoke from all the other buildings on fire, you [couldn't] see anything. So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and [that's] when 7 collapsed.... Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess." - Lieutenant William Ryan
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/Ryan_William.txt
"Firehouse: Did that chief give an assignment to go to building 7?
Boyle: He gave out an assignment. I didn’t know exactly what it was, but he told the chief that we were heading down to the site.
Firehouse: How many companies?
Boyle: There were four engines and at least three trucks. So we’re heading east on Vesey, we couldn’t see much past Broadway. We couldn’t see Church Street. We couldn’t see what was down there. It was really smoky and dusty."
"A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.
But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.
So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.
Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?
Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.
Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?
Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/mag...e/gz/boyle.html
This proves there was a big hole on the south side. It's in the middle of the building and goes up about 20 stories...
Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
Firehouse: Chief Nigro said they made a collapse zone and wanted everybody away from number 7— did you have to get all of those people out?
Hayden: Yeah, we had to pull everybody back. It was very difficult. We had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn’t want to come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn’t even really comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses. We didn’t know how stable any of this area was. We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon. We said, this building is going to come down, get back. It came down about 5 o’clock or so, but we had everybody backed away by then. At that point in time, it seemed like a somewhat smaller event, but under any normal circumstances, that’s a major event, a 47-story building collapsing. It seemed like a firecracker after the other ones came down, but I mean that’s a big building, and when it came down, it was quite an event. But having gone through the other two, it didn’t seem so bad. But that’s what we were concerned about. We had said to the guys, we lost as many as 300 guys. We didn’t want to lose any more people that day. And when those numbers start to set in among everybody… My feeling early on was we weren’t going to find any survivors. You either made it out or you didn’t make it out. It was a cataclysmic event. The idea of somebody living in that thing to me would have been only short of a miracle. This thing became geographically sectored because of the collapse. I was at West and Liberty. I couldn’t go further north on West Street. And I couldn’t go further east on Liberty because of the collapse of the south tower, so physically we were boxed in.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/mag.../gz/hayden.html
Don't worry it's just me being silly again. |
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orestes
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Posts: 113
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| We all take the testimony of the firemen on 9/11 very seriously. Glad you agree. bombs |
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stateofgrace
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blackcat
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Still pissed! |
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Newspeak International
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Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 1158
Location: South Essex
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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SoG those links in your top of the page post don't work at the moment,
pages linked say 'server error'
Shame, I really wanted to see them.
Maybe later? |
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orestes
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Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand. Are you suggesting I wrote that the firemen planted bombs? That's ridiculous and not what I said. I was referring to the testimony of the firefighters that they heard explosions, and that what they heard and saw when the buildings fell looked and sounded like a systematic demolition pattern going off.
The testimony is all here for anyone interested.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPH IC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html |
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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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The emergence of this kind of thing is no surprise. This footage looks fake to me. The mother, baby and interviewer do not look part of the scene. What's a mother doing taking her new-born baby out into the noxious fumes of 9/11 Manhatten anyway? Applying subconcious force on the viewers of this propaganda, that's what. Oh, mother, baby...innocence...must be true. Like hell it is.
The voice-over is just too unsurprised. How come this guy knew something that Dan rather didn't when he said it looked like a 'controlled demolition'? How come he knew something that even the lying 9/11 Commission, four years later, didn't (they admitted that they had no idea why WTC7 fell)? How come this film clip has only now surfaced. Perhaps because the PTB are increasingly aware that WTC7 is the big 'smoking gun' of 9/11.
Expect to see lots of this clip when 9/11 is forced into the public domain....and maybe a few more surprising 'newly-discovered' clips.
These b****** have hundreds of millions of dollars to spend on their side of the infowar. |
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stateofgrace
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Newspeak International
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Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 1158
Location: South Essex
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| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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I may be wrong but I don't think anyone here has an argument with
those last four links you supplied.
The fact that World Trade Center buildings 1 and 2 collapsed earlier in the day,surely made it possible for even firemen to suspend their disbelief and think 7 may collapse also.
The facts indicate 7 was on fire.
The facts indicate there was indeed some damage to the building.
The facts indicate there was a symetrical collapse in around 7 seconds.
The facts indicate 7 was "pulled" controlled demolition style.
. ' . 7 was already rigged to blow previous to the events of the day,which proves there can be no doubting a conspiracy occured. |
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