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Me
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 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: |
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http://www.arcticbeacon.com/19-Jul-2005.html
NY Fireman Lou Cacchioli Upset That 9/11 Commission 'Tried To Twist My Words;' A True Hero, He Vows To Stick To The Truth, Something Lacking In The 9/11 Investigation
| Quote: | Former veteran fireman recalls hearing three distinct 'huge explosions' while rescuing people in north tower between 23rd and 24th floors, testimony ignored in the 9/11 Commission's final report. Brave fireman recalls how he almost called it quits after losing his buddies, his job and his health. Now, four years later, he's finally on the rebound, making an emotional and physical recovery, adding he keeps active with the fire department and enjoys his life as a new grandfather.
19 Jul 2005 |
| Quote: | New York fireman Lou Cacchioli looked the devil square in the eye the morning of 9/11. He stared him down, threw him aside and walked into the depths of hell like a true hero, knowing he may never walk out again.
Like a hero, he risked his life to save others, never once thinking about himself at a time when one wrong a turn, a slight move in the wrong direction, meant sure death.
Although he survived, a little bit of Lou Cacchioli died that tragic morning in the north tower.
A little bit of the Italian boy, born in northern Italy who came to New York at the age of 10, was left behind in the rubble along with thousands of unlucky souls who didn't make it out of hell that morning.
And if you look closely, a little bit of the Italian boy can still be seen hovering high above where the WTC once stood, flying high with the hearts and souls of his firefighter friends who perished that morning.
Look even closer through the clouds and you can probably still see a silhouette of Cacchioli and his best friend, Tommy Hedsall, both proudly wearing their FDNY uniforms and still rescuing people in the north tower's 24th floor, the last place Cacchioli ever saw his friend alive.
Four years later, Cacchioli hasn't talked much about the nightmare he lived on 9/11. First, he really didn't want to talk about. Next, he got tired of having his words twisted by the 9/11 Commission and finally, the New York media basically never sought him out to get the true account of what he saw and heard in the north tower right before the building collapsed.
Originally, on September 12, 2001, People Magazine ran a few short paragraphs about the 20-year veteran New York fireman hearing what sounded like bombs exploding in the north tower.
Short and sweet, that was it. A few short words about bombs exploding, but words that were repeated over and over again in story after story by writers and broadcasters who never even bothered to talk to him in the first place.
Furthermore, Cacchioli was upset that People Magazine misquoted him, saying "there were bombs" in the building when all he said was he heard "what sounded like bombs" without having definitive proof bombs were actually detonated.
After that unfortunate journalistic blunder, a little angry and a little disgusted, he pretty much disappeared into the New York landscape, his story only appearing in an obscure book released called "American Spirit," and his 2004 testimony given in private to the 9/11 Commission never released to the public in the commission's final report.
So, it's safe to say Cacchioli's story, the story of an American hero, is probably unknown to most Americans even though 9/11 will be forever etched in everyone's hearts and souls for all time.
In a humble effort to set the 9/11 Commission's record straight and put the correct version of hero Lou Cacchioli's story back in the history books, here is the unedited version, better late then never, as told by the man in an extended telephone conversation this week from his New York home:
THEN AND NOW
Losing his buddies, his job and his health, there was time after 9/11 he seriously considered suicide. But after counseling, a bit of soul searching and a loving family, the man who went through the depths of hell is now a happy grandfather.
Although he's finally able to cope with the horror and grief of 9/11 after four long years, the tough-talking Italian with a heart of gold, admitted:
"I still have my moments, I still break down sometimes and I still go to counseling. But I feel a lot better, a whole lot better. I have a wonderful wife of 30 years, three great children and now a little granddaughter. What more could a man want?"
And the man who almost lost it all after saving so many lives is back living safely on the "happy side of heaven," keeping close touch with the fire department he loves and vowing to never leave the streets of New York, the only life he really knows.
And like a true Italian, headstrong, independent and not afraid to speak his mind, he said:
"Nothing's going to push Lou Cacchioli out of this town, nothing!"
THE MORNING OF 9/11
Cacchioli was one of those tough New York firefighters, the kind of guy you'd like to have a coffee or beer with or the kind of guy who could talk your arm off about Yankee baseball.
For most of his career, "Tough Lou" was a Company 47 engine man in the equally as tough Harlem District. He was the type of fireman who you picture sitting around the firehouse dinner table, shooting the breeze and talking war stories about the last big blaze up on 42nd Street.
He was the type of fearless New York fireman who, up until 9/11, thought he saw it all, including the WTC bombing in 1993.
But that was before 9/11. That was before Cacchioli was thrown into depths of hell when the Company 47 bell sounded, telling the fire crew to head to the south tower of the WTC.
And like the sound of the bell marking the 15th round at Madison Square Garden, it was the last bell Cacchioli ever heard, as he never worked another day for the FDNY after 9/11.
Although it was like someone ripped his heart out on January 4, 2002, when doctors told him due a pulmonary condition from the 9/11 contaminants he'd never work as a fireman again, Cacchioli somehow still finds the strength to recall what he calls the most horrifying day a man could ever imagine.
But back on 9/11, Cacchioli was in true form, headstrong and ready to take on the blaze like he'd done so many times before. Although he readily admits "none of the finest fireman in the world were prepared for 9/11," he said never once did he think the buildings would topple, but at the same time, never did he think the fire could ever be contained.
CACCHIOLI AND ENGINE CO. 47 ARRIVE ON THE SCENE
When Co. 47 arrived with Cacchioli leading the way as the senior member of the crew, the second plane had already hit the south tower and they were told to head directly to the Marriot Hotel across from the WTC, since a fire was blazing form debris falling from the towers. Cacchioli recalls hearing radio reports of "people jumping" and when he got closer to the Marriot, the reports turned into reality.
"I looked up and there were about 6 to 10 people flying through the air coming down right on us," said Cacchioli. "It was horrible when they hit the ground, something you had to turn your eyes away from. One of the jumpers landed directly on fireman Danny Sur, killing him on the spot. I remember saying, 'Oh my God, what are we getting into?'"
Cacchioli then recalls entering the Marriot, trying to lead "the kids" as he called them, adding that words could not describe the screaming and chaos within.
"There was debris flying everywhere and it was just mass chaos," said Cacchioli. "At that point, orders were changing fast and furious and our company was directed to lend assistance in the north tower."
CACCHIOLI AND CREW ENTER NORTH TOWER AND GO UP TO 24TH FLOOR
Although the Marriot was a bad scene, the North Tower looked like a war zone. Originally, his crew was ordered to the South Tower, but was misdirected to the other one due to confusion, a twist of fate that saved his life.
When he finally entered the North Tower lobby, Cacchioli recalls elevator doors completely blown out and another scene of mass chaos with people running, screaming and being hit with debris.
"I remember thinking to myself, my God, how could this be happening so quickly if a plane hit way above. It didn't make sense," said Cacchioli.
At that point, Cacchioli found one of the only functioning elevators, one only going as high as the 24th floor, a twist of fate that probably saved his life.
"Looking back if it was one of the elevators that went higher, I wouldn't be here talking today," added Cacchioli.
As he made his way up along with men from Engine Co. 21, 22 and Ladder Co. 13, the doors opened on the 24th floor, a scene again that hardly made sense to the seasoned fireman, claiming the heavy dust and haze of smoke he encountered was unusual considering the location of the strike.
"Tommy Hetzel was with me and everybody else also gets out of the elevator when it stops on the 24th floor," said Cacchioli, "There was a huge amount of smoke. Tommy and I had to go back down the elevator for tools and no sooner did the elevators close behind us, we heard this huge explosion that sounded like a bomb. It was such a loud noise, it knocked off the lights and stalled the elevator.
"Luckily, we weren't caught between floors and were able to pry open the doors. People were going crazy, yelling and screaming. And all the time, I am crawling low and making my way in the dark with a flashlight to the staircase and thinking Tommy is right behind me.
"I somehow got into the stairwell and there were more people there. When I began to try and direct down, another huge explosion like the first one hits. This one hits about two minutes later, although it's hard to tell, but I'm thinking, 'Oh. My God, these b****** put bombs in here like they did in 1993!'
"But still it never crossed my mind the building was going to collapse. I really only had two things on my mind and that was getting people out and saving lives. That's what I was trained for and that's what I was going to do.
"I remember at that point in the stairwell between the 23rd and 24th floor, I threw myself down on the steps because of the smoke. It was pitch black, I had my mask on and I was crawling down the steps until I found the door on the 23rd floor."
When Cacchioli entered the 23rd floor, he found a "little man" holding a handkerchief in front of his face and hiding under the standpipes on the wall, used for pumping water on the floor in case of fire.
Leading the man by the arm, he then ran into a group down the hall of about 35 to 40 people, finding his way down the 23rd floor stairwell and beginning their descent to safety.
"Then as soon as we get in the stairwell, I hear another huge explosion like the other two. Then I heard bang, bang, bang - huge bangs - and surmised later it was the floors pan caking on top of one another.
"I knew we had to get out of there fast and on the 12th floor a man even jumped on my back because he thought he couldn't make it any farther. Everybody was shocked and dazed and it was a miracle all of us got this far."
When the group led by Cacchioli finally made it to the lobby level, he was unable to open the door at first, the concussion of the explosions or perhaps the south tower falling, jamming the lobby door.
Finally jarring it loose, the group entered the lobby finding total devastation with windows blown out and marble falling form the walls, but strangely no people. At that point, it was either left or right to an exit, Cacchioli, the man he originally found by the standpipes and another lady going right while the others went left, a move which by the grace of God saved his life.
"It seemed like every move I made that morning was the right move," said Cacchioli. "I should have been killed at least five times. The people that went left didn't make it out, but we came out alive on West Street."
OUTSIDE AND APPARENTLY OUT OF HARMS WAY
After making sure the two civilians were attended to, Cacchioli went to his fire truck finding Lance, the driver, who was attending to the truck and waiting for the crew to return.
Looking up at the North Tower directly above, Cacchioli recalls not having the slightest idea when he exited that the south tower had already collapsed. He also remembers wondering about the fate of his crew members, the driver telling him two were missing and two others injured and already taken to the hospital.
"Next thing, we look up and see the tower collapsing. We saw it starting to come down fast, Lance running towards the water to safety and I headed down West Side Highway."
Cacchioli said he remembers looking back at the North Tower antenna falling, at the same time trying to stay ahead of the huge ball of black smoke gaining ground. He then threw of his mask to make himself lighter, a move that allowed him to run faster and perhaps save his life, while eventually having to throw himself on the ground from the heavy sawdust-like air mixed with glass that was choking him to death and taking away his vision.
Landing in debris, he luckily fell by the wheels of another fire truck, another twist of fate that may have saved his life, where he then managed to find a compressed air breathing mask. He then passed out and recalls waking up some time later after another fireman pulled him to safety.
"I don't really know how much time passed, but once I felt better, I quickly went back to look for my friends and stayed till I couldn't walk anymore," said Cacchioli, who began crying when he talked about his close friend. "They finally found Tommy's body in the debris about 10 days later. I went back to Ground Zero every day for a long time, going AWOL, until I finally went to a doctor and was put on medical leave.
"They were very good about it. Everybody understood. It got to the point I couldn't breadth anymore and I lost a lot of vision due to the broken glass getting into my eyes. Finally, the doctors told me in January 2002, I couldn't work and I remember feeling devastated like my whole world was coming to an end.
"I couldn't tell this story for the longest time and I have to admit it is still difficult."
THE 2004 9/11 COMMISSION HEARINGS: WHAT A WAY TO TREAT A HERO!
Cacchioli was called to testify privately, but walked out on several members of the committee before they finished, feeling like he was being interrogated and cross-examined rather than simply allowed to tell the truth about what occurred in the north tower on 9/11.
"My story was never mentioned in the final report and I felt like I was being put on trial in a court room," said Cacchioli. "I finally walked out. They were trying to twist my words and make the story fit only what they wanted to hear. All I wanted to do was tell the truth and when they wouldn't let me do that, I walked out.
"It was a disgrace to everyone, the victims and the family members who lost loved ones. I don't agree with the 9/11 Commission. The whole experience was terrible."
HIS LIFE NOW
Cacchioli spends a majority of his spare time hanging around the firehouse, trying to stay in touch with the department he loves and trying to lend a hand to some of the younger kids in the department.
"I talk to the kids and I want to make sure they are keeping up to snuff so they're ready if something happens," said Cacchioli, who also plays softball in the FDNY league, something he regularly did when he was on active duty. "I don't want to lose this connection because the fire department is a part of who I am and who I always will be."
Asked if he ever was pressured to keep quiet about his 9/11 experience, he added:
"Nobody has bothered me. I don't think I should be bothered. I know what happened that day and I know the whole truth hasn't come out yet. I have my own conscience, my own mind and no one, I mean no one, is going to force Lou Cacchioli to say something that didn't happen and wasn't the truth."
For more informative articles, go to www.arcticbeacon.com where donations are accepted to keep the news flowing. |
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Me
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Victim's Father Bill Doyle Dicusses 9/11 Coverup - MP3 Download
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/july2006/080706governmentcomplicit.ht m
Representative Of Largest 9/11 Families Group Says Government Complicit In Attack
| Quote: | The representative of the largest group of 9/11 families says that the official version of events is a fallacy and that the NORAD stand down and evidence of incendiary devices used to bring down the towers amount to government complicity in the attacks - a conclusion shared by half of the 9/11 families he represents.
Doyle heads the Coalition of 9/11 Families and lost his own son Joey in the collapse of the twin towers.
"If you want to believe what they want to snow you under on like the 9/11 Commission - that's a total fallacy," said Doyle.
"The continuing cover-up is beyond belief," Doyle told GCN radio host Alex Jones.
Doyle questioned why WTC steel that was withheld from NIST for examination for explosives was used instead to build a battleship.
"Isn't it amazing how they got it out of this country within days," said Doyle as he addressed the cover-up of the physical evidence from a crime scene.
Doyle said he had personally talked to six different individuals who were at the World Trade Center site and described incendiary devices before the collapse of the towers.
"It's documented proof that tower 7 was not hit by a plane yet it goes up in flames then the owner of the place Larry Silverstein himself ordered it to be pulled at 4 o'clock that afternoon and all of a sudden it exploded straight down."
"We have two planes fly into the towers and all of a sudden they get blown up within an hour and a half - that's impossible," said Doyle.
Doyle estimated that around half of the family members his organization represents think that there was government complicity in the attacks.
"It looks like there was a conspiracy behind 9/11 if you really look at all the facts - a lot of families now feel the same way."
"Where was NORAD," asked Doyle as he highlighted the implausible gap between the known hijacking times of Flight 93 and Flight 77 and their eventual destruction.
"It was called a step-down - don't do anything - let it happen."
"From everything I look at I'm sure there was a lot of complicity - in the least there had to be a lot of complicity - if you read all the facts there's no way that nineteen hijackers carried out this mission," Doyle told Jones.
Doyle also spoke out on establishment charities withholding large portions of donations from 9/11 families and how 9/11 whistleblowers have been punished meanwhile individuals who facilitated the attacks were rewarded. |
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Me
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Still not even proof of Bin Laden's connection to 9/11? And we went to war over this?
http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html
FBI says, “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”
| Quote: |
June 6, 2006 – This past weekend, a thought provoking e-mail circulated through Internet news groups, bringing attention to the FBI’s Most Wanted Terrorist web page for Usama Bin Laden.[1] (See bottom of this web page for Most Wanted page) In the e-mail, the question is asked, “Why doesn’t Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster make any direct connection with the events of September 11, 2001?” The FBI says on its Bin Laden web page that Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998 bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. According to the FBI, these attacks killed over 200 people. The FBI concludes its reason for “wanting” Bin Laden by saying, “In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorists attacks throughout the world.”
On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, (202) 324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” I asked, “How does that work?” Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.”
It shouldn’t take long before the full meaning of these FBI statements start to p*i*k your brain and raise your blood pressure. If you think the way I think, in quick order you will be wrestling with a barrage of very powerful questions that must be answered. First and foremost, if the U.S. government does not have enough hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11, how is it possible that it had enough evidence to invade Afghanistan to “smoke him out of his cave?” The federal government claims to have invaded Afghanistan to “root out” Bin Laden and the Taliban. Through the talking heads in the mainstream media, the Bush Administration told the American people that Usama Bin Laden was Public Enemy Number One and responsible for the deaths of nearly 3000 people on September 11, 2001. Yet nearly five years later, the FBI says that it has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.
Next is the Bin Laden “confession” video that was released by the U.S. government on December 13, 2001. Most Americans remember this video. It was the video showing Bin Laden with a few of his comrades recounting with delight the September 11 terrorist attacks against the United States. The Department of Defense issued a press release to accompany this video in which Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said, “There was no doubt of bin Laden’s responsibility for the September 11 attacks before the tape was discovered.”[2] What Rumsfeld implied by his statement was that Bin Laden was the known mastermind behind 9/11 even before the “confession video” and that the video simply served to confirm what the U.S. government already knew; that Bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
In a BBC News article[3] reporting on the “9/11 confession video” release, President Bush is said to have been hesitate to release the tape because he knew it would be a vivid reminder to many people of their loss. But, he also knew it would be “a devastating declaration” of Bin Laden’s guilt. “Were going to get him,” said President Bush. “Dead or alive, it doesn’t matter to me.”
In a CNN article[4] regarding the Bin Laden tape, then New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani said that “the tape removes any doubt that the U.S. military campaign targeting bin Laden and his associates is more than justified.” Senator Richard Shelby, R-Alabama, the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee said, “The tape’s release is central to informing people in the outside world who don’t believe bin Laden was involved in the September 11 attacks.” Shelby went on to say “I don’t know how they can be in denial after they see this tape.” Well Senator Shelby, apparently the Federal Bureau of Investigation isn’t convinced by the taped confession, so why are you?
The Muckraker Report attempted to secure a reference to the U.S. government authenticating the Bin Laden “confession video”, to no avail. However, it is conclusive that the Bush Administration and U.S. Congress, along with the dead stream media, played the video as if it was authentic. So why doesn’t the FBI view the “confession video” as hard evidence? After all, if the FBI is investigating a crime such as drug trafficking, and it discovers a video of members of a drug cartel opening talking about a successful distribution operation in the United States, that video would be presented to a federal grand jury. The identified participants of the video would be indicted, and if captured, the video alone would serve as sufficient evidence to net a conviction in a federal court. So why is the Bin Laden “confession video” not carrying the same weight with the FBI?
Remember, on June 5, 2006, FBI spokesman, Chief of Investigative Publicity Rex Tomb said, “The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” This should be headline news worldwide. The challenge to the reader is to find out why it is not. Why has the U.S. media blindly read the government-provided 9/11 scripts, rather than investigate without passion, prejudice, or bias, the events of September 11, 2001? Why has the U.S. media blacklisted any guest that might speak of a government sponsored 9/11 cover-up, rather than seeking out those people who have something to say about 9/11 that is contrary to the government’s account? And on those few rare occasions when a 9/11 dissenter has made it upon the airways, why has the mainstream media ridiculed the guest as a conspiracy nut, rather than listen to the evidence that clearly raises valid questions about the government’s 9/11 account? Why is the Big Media Conglomeration blindly content with the government’s 9/11 story when so much verifiable information to the contrary is available with a few clicks of a computer mouse?
Who is it that is controlling the media message, and how is it that the U.S. media has indicted Usama Bin Laden for the events of September 11, 2001, but the U.S. government has not? How is it that the FBI has no “hard evidence” connecting Usama Bin Laden to the events of September 11, 2001, while the U.S. media has played the Bin Laden - 9/11 connection story for five years now as if it has conclusive evidence that Bin Laden is responsible for the collapse of the twin towers, the Pentagon attack, and the demise of United Flight 93? |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Column and beam buclked by fire in WTC 5. The fuel? Office contents. |
Any proof this is from WTC5?? |
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Gravy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Abandoned Ego
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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:29 am Post subject: In which case.... |
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GRAVY SAID
| Quote: | | Don't be a donce? It takes an absolute moron to believe that AA 77 did not hit the Pentagon. |
In which case Gravy, anyone but a moron who can prove that a plane hit the pentagon would be foolish enough NOT to claim the £1000 reward offered by us in Blackpool for anyone who isnt moronic enough NOT to show us a pic of a plane approaching or hitting the pentagon.
Kindly supply the link or submit your photo and claim the cash.
I expect it any time soon.
On here will do.
Money for old rope for the 19 arab conspiracy theorists right ?
Otherwise, who is the moron ?
Please dont show me bits and pieces from a military jet with a cruise missile attatched.
Show me YOUR proof.
Easy huh ?
And meanwhile Gravy, could you give us YOUR proof of your 19 Arabs conspiracy theory other than that spouted by confirmed serial liars ?
This is about the fourth time Ive asked this question.
Not to mention about a dozen other questions that the 19 arab conspiracy theorists have refused to answer.
So Gravy. Either put up and have a champagne toast on us as you submit your easily available ( surely ? ) evidence or shut up.
Last edited by Abandoned Ego on Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:44 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Gravy
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Gravy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:59 am Post subject: Re: In which case.... |
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| Abandoned Ego wrote: | GRAVY SAID
| Quote: | | Don't be a donce? It takes an absolute moron to believe that AA 77 did not hit the Pentagon. |
In which case Gravy, anyone but a moron who can prove that a plane hit the pentagon would be foolish enough NOT to claim the £1000 reward offered by us in Blackpool for anyone who isnt moronic enough to show us a pic of a plane approaching or hitting the pentagon.
Kindly supply the link or submit your photo and claim the cash.
I expect it any time soon.
On here will do.
Money for old rope for the 19 arab conspiracy theorists right ?
Otherwise, who is the moron ?
Please dont show me bits and pieces from a military jet with a cruise missile attatched.
Show me YOUR proof.
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Let me get this straight: the only proof you accept of plane crashes is photos of the planes crashing? Without the photos, the crashes did not happen? Am I getting that right?
A large airliner once crashed ON MY BLOCK. Because no one caught a picture of the impact, the crash didn't happen, right?
Right?
Or are there other ways of determining these things?
While you're at it, would you like to explain your "military plane with missile attached" comment?
Have you looked at ANY evidence of the Pentagon crash? And if you have such grave doubts about it, have you contacted a single person who was on scene?
If not, why?
Last edited by Gravy on Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gravy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:05 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Me"]http://www.arcticbeacon.com/19-Jul-2005.html
NY Fireman Lou Cacchioli Upset That 9/11 Commission 'Tried To Twist My Words;' A True Hero, He Vows To Stick To The Truth, Something Lacking In The 9/11 Investigation
Yes, "Me," isn't is disturbing when someone tries to twist a hero's words, as you did in your previous post?
You've got a helluva lot of nerve.
Did you happen to miss this part?
| Quote: | Originally, on September 12, 2001, People Magazine ran a few short paragraphs about the 20-year veteran New York fireman hearing what sounded like bombs exploding in the north tower.
Short and sweet, that was it. A few short words about bombs exploding, but words that were repeated over and over again in story after story by writers and broadcasters who never even bothered to talk to him in the first place.
Furthermore, Cacchioli was upset that People Magazine misquoted him, saying "there were bombs" in the building when all he said was he heard "what sounded like bombs" without having definitive proof bombs were actually detonated. |
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John White
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Is me claiming Lou Cacchioli supports controlled demolition? NO
Me is reporting on Mr Cacchioli's own statement about how the 911 commision did not let him give his evidance in a way that he considers fair and fitting to a proper enquirey
I believe the true level of twist is obvious here Gravy: dont worry, I wont bother being offended by it
Although I am concerned with your obsession with proof from single sources for an entire complex scenario
Life simply isnt like that: we are all only human
Why dont you read Mr Cacchioli's statment again, from the beggining, slowly, and try and use your heart AND your head?
_________________
Free your Self and Free the World |
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Abandoned Ego
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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 288
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:18 am Post subject: Re: In which case.... |
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| Quote: | | In 1960, a DC-9 crashed ON MY BLOCK. Because no one caught a picture of the impact, the crash didn't happen, right? |
Aww c'mon. What kind of a comparison is that ?
Is your block the Hub of the US defence system ?
Is your block the part of what should be the most secure premises on Earth ?
Please dont answer that last question in the affirmative, especially if you are still resident in it. Otherwise you might get the majority of this board agreeing with you for once.
Its really quite simple.
Do you want the 'free' money or not ?
In which case all you have to do is prove your case plainly and simply by showing me a pic of that plane in its approach or around the point of impact.
Or is this 19 Arabs stuff actually one of the greatest lies ever told ?
Last edited by Abandoned Ego on Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gravy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: Re: In which case.... |
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[quote="Abandoned Ego"]
| Quote: | | Is your block the part of what should be the most secure premises on Earth ? |
Can you clarify what you mean about "most secure premises on Earth"?
But that's avoiding the question: is a photo of a plane crashing the only evidence you will accept that the crash happened? |
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Gravy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Me wrote: | | Still not even proof of Bin Laden's connection to 9/11? And we went to war over this? |
Unfortunately, bin Laden's many recorded admissions to his involvement probably wouldn't cut it in court.
And it's a good idea to remind yourselves now and then that some of the hijackers recorded their last wills.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4220657430794722240
Last edited by Gravy on Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gravy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | Is me claiming Lou Cacchioli supports controlled demolition? NO
Me is reporting on Mr Cacchioli's own statement about how the 911 commision did not let him give his evidance in a way that he considers fair and fitting to a proper enquirey
I believe the true level of twist is obvious here Gravy: dont worry, I wont bother being offended by it
Although I am concerned with your obsession with proof from single sources for an entire complex scenario
Life simply isnt like that: we are all only human
Why dont you read Mr Cacchioli's statment again, from the beggining, slowly, and try and use your heart AND your head? |
Did you read me's misuse of the firefighter's quotes in the long post of mine above?
What do you think of that behavior? Think it's decent? Think it's intelligent?
I'd like to see "me" bring his "truth" to my boys a block away. They only lost 12 men on 9/11, and I'm sure they'd have no problem with their quotes being taken exactly the wrong way by a conapiracy-monger.
Yeah, it pisses me off. Damn right. |
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John White
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:31 am Post subject: |
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I think that you object to it being talked about Gravy: and I do understand why
However, I dont see Mr Cacchioli being taken advantage of in the quoted peice: I see journalism
I object to the failure of the US administration to prevent 911: I object to the murder perpetrated on that day: I object to the tens of thousands who have lost their lives as a further consequance of the War of Lies and Spin that has erupted since: and I object to the failure of our leaders to pursue peace in the best interests of all people but instead to drag us ever closer to a catastrophic eternal War
And I do not believe that any of the fallen on 911 would ever have wanted such a thing
And that is why we must pursue truth: becuase our society has become to weak to find it alone, and the only ethical choice is to take responsibility
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Jay Ref
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Here's a very good look at the Pentagon security video with computer aided analysis.
I don't expect it to change any minds here though. According to you lot, if there's not clear video of it then it mustn't have happened at all. I suspect that attitude didn't fly very high in history class.
You lot are complete morons, but don't take my word for it...go down the pub and tell the barman your thoughts on 9/11...see if he lets you buy another pint...
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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John White
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Very pretty: but your not too smart yourself if you consider that evidance
Me, I'm very much of the school of thought that a plane hit the pentagon, or at least will be convincingly proved to have done so. I certainly dont consider a clump of pixels 90% hidden from view on one frame to be the best evidance available, should the US gov choose to make it public...and wheres the motive for holding back?
However, let us assume that everything happened as shown in the presentation (im sure others will be along with their own POV):
What level of skill would a pilot have to have to pull it off? How far did that plane travel just a bare few feet from the deck? How feasable is that?
Do you think you could have controlled that plane? Or just anyone? Who'd never actually flown a large plane before? Thats credible to you?
Now a pilot of consumate skill and years of experiance...well I suppose there is some vague possibility with a low % factor
A computer on the other hand...well computers can do wonderful things
Its wonderful when one wants to believe
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blackcat
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Don't forget the $2.3 thousand billion "missing" from the Pentagon accounts is going to be very difficult to investigate as the "plane" destroyed exactly the spot where the records were, and many of the bookkeepers and accountants who were dealing with it. It had to be a very accurate hit and they could not possibly leave that to a 757 flown by a non-pilot. |
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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: | | You lot are complete morons |
Well why waste your intelligence on us? Just f*** off. |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You lot are complete morons, but don't take my word for it...go down the pub and tell the barman your thoughts on 9/11 |
Oh right - every barman I know is a genius. 
I prefer to listen to a professor (Jones) or a university lecturer (Barrett). Oh wait - they must be morons as well as they disagree with you and your band of highly intelligent barmen. |
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Jay Ref
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | | Very pretty: but your not too smart yourself if you consider that evidance |
I'm not usually pedantic; but if one wishes to cast aspersions upon another's intelligence one should take care to use the correct words. I believe the word you would have used had you been educated in something more than a budget-depressed public school with an indolent staff is "you're" which is a contraction of the words "you" and "are" as in the following example:
Even among brain-dead conspiracy theorists you're known to be a dim bulb.
Also "evidance" is actually spelled: "evidence". Usually one must go to a bus station to meet people of your apparent intelligence.
| Quote: |
Me, I'm very much of the school of thought that a plane hit the pentagon, or at least will be convincingly proved to have done so. I certainly dont consider a clump of pixels 90% hidden from view on one frame to be the best evidance available, should the US gov choose to make it public...and wheres the motive for holding back? |
Glad to hear that. Perhaps there is hope for you after all. Sadly though amongst most reasonably intelligent people the phrase:
" I'm very much of the school of thought that a plane hit the pentagon..."
Is rather akin to the phrase:
I'm very much of the school of thought that the earth is round.
| Quote: |
However, let us assume that everything happened as shown in the presentation (im sure others will be along with their own POV):
What level of skill would a pilot have to have to pull it off? How far did that plane travel just a bare few feet from the deck? How feasable is that? |
So the question boils down to: "What level of skill would a pilot have to have to (crash a plane)?"
The short answer is: Minimal. Now landing on a short runway at night with a 30 knot crosswind? There is where skill comes in handy. Pilots who crash planes into buildings are not generally thought of as particularly skillful.
But playing devil's advocate for a moment...what do you think more likely? That the object which struck the Pentagon was:
A. a cruise missile.
B. a drone
C. a commercial 757 taken by force
D. a controlled demolition
E. a UFO
F. a fighter plane (as posited by LC2E)
Before you answer you may wish to peruse this [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor] link. [/url] entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
(BTW: "Peruse" means to go have yourself a good old butcher's hook mate.)
| Quote: |
Do you think you could have controlled that plane? Or just anyone? Who'd never actually flown a large plane before? Thats credible to you? |
Yes I do. I am a licensed pilot. I only have a private certificate, but yes, even I could fly a 757 in an unsafe manner. Mr. Boeing makes some pretty stout airplanes.
| Quote: |
Now a pilot of consumate skill and years of experiance...well I suppose there is some vague possibility with a low % factor |
And you say this because you are a pilot? An aeronautical engineer? Just what expertise besides looking at internet videos and posting on message boards do you have exactly?
| Quote: |
A computer on the other hand...well computers can do wonderful things
Its wonderful when one wants to believe |
So I guess you are saying it was a drone of some kind? Please now go back and look at that link again and think on the meaning of: entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem if you have the capacity to do so that is.
-z
If a million people "believe" a thing it doesn't make it magically come true. Belief is not wonderful; reality is.
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense
Last edited by Jay Ref on Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ally
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 909
Location: banned
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I've been trying to join your JREF forum but 2 days later they haven't validated my application. Can you look into it JayRef? My handle was 911insideJob. |
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Don't forget the $2.3 thousand billion "missing" from the Pentagon accounts is going to be very difficult to investigate as the "plane" destroyed exactly the spot where the records were, and many of the bookkeepers and accountants who were dealing with it. It had to be a very accurate hit and they could not possibly leave that to a 757 flown by a non-pilot. |
No, not true. The 757 actually directly impacted the secret office in charge of minding the slave labour camps located at area 51. The office of secretly stealing 2.3 thousand million kadillion is located just down the hall in the little known "Z" ring. (that's the invisible one)
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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Jay Ref
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | Jay Ref wrote: | | You lot are complete morons |
Well why waste your intelligence on us? Just f*** off. |
I'm staying just for you. Needling stupid neo-Nazi's is fun. Sorry, I'm guilty of a redundancy in that last sentence. Can you find it?
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ally wrote: | | I've been trying to join your JREF forum but 2 days later they haven't validated my application. Can you look into it JayRef? My handle was 911insideJob. |
JREF's registration process is notoriously slow. An effort to weed out hit and run board spammers, I believe. |
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Ally
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 909
Location: banned
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: |
I'm staying just for you. Needling stupid neo-Nazi's is fun.
-z |
how long you gonna let this moron stick about? Have u checked IPs so they not the same loser? |
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John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: | | John White wrote: | | Very pretty: but your not too smart yourself if you consider that evidance |
I'm not usually pedantic; but if one wishes to cast aspersions upon another's intelligence one should take care to use the correct words. I believe the word you would have used had you been educated in something more than a budget-depressed public school with an indolent staff is "you're" which is a contraction of the words "you" and "are" as in the following example:
Even among brain-dead conspiracy theorists you're known to be a dim bulb.
Also "evidance" is actually spelled: "evidence". Usually one must go to a bus station to meet people of your apparent intelligence.
| Quote: |
Me, I'm very much of the school of thought that a plane hit the pentagon, or at least will be convincingly proved to have done so. I certainly dont consider a clump of pixels 90% hidden from view on one frame to be the best evidance available, should the US gov choose to make it public...and wheres the motive for holding back? |
Glad to hear that. Perhaps there is hope for you after all. Sadly though amongst most reasonably intelligent people the phrase:
" I'm very much of the school of thought that a plane hit the pentagon..."
Is rather akin to the phrase:
I'm very much of the school of thought that the earth is round.
| Quote: |
However, let us assume that everything happened as shown in the presentation (im sure others will be along with their own POV):
What level of skill would a pilot have to have to pull it off? How far did that plane travel just a bare few feet from the deck? How feasable is that? |
So the question boils down to: "What level of skill would a pilot have to have to (crash a plane)?"
The short answer is: Minimal. Now landing on a short runway at night with a 30 knot crosswind? There is where skill comes in handy. Pilots who crash planes into buildings are not generally thought of as particularly skillful.
But playing devil's advocate for a moment...what do you think more likely? That the object which struck the Pentagon was:
A. a cruise missile.
B. a drone
C. a commercial 757 taken by force
D. a controlled demolition
E. a UFO
F. a fighter plane (as posited by LC2E)
Before you answer you may wish to peruse this [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor] link. [/url] entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
(BTW: "Peruse" means to go have yourself a good old butcher's hook mate.)
| Quote: |
Do you think you could have controlled that plane? Or just anyone? Who'd never actually flown a large plane before? Thats credible to you? |
Yes I do. I am a licensed pilot. I only have a private certificate, but yes, even I could fly a 757 in an unsafe manner. Mr. Boeing makes some pretty stout airplanes.
| Quote: |
Now a pilot of consumate skill and years of experiance...well I suppose there is some vague possibility with a low % factor |
And you say this because you are a pilot? An aeronautical engineer? Just what expertise besides looking at internet videos and posting on message boards do you have exactly?
| Quote: |
A computer on the other hand...well computers can do wonderful things
Its wonderful when one wants to believe |
So I guess you are saying it was a drone of some kind? Please now go back and look at that link again and think on the meaning of: entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem if you have the capacity to do so that is.
-z
If a million people "believe" a thing it doesn't make it magically come true. Belief is not wonderful; reality is. |
Your attitude is outrageous
Your criticising me based on your presumptions about my education and my "social class???"
Mate, your a BIG part of the problem
I will answer your question: B) Drone (which could well have been the hijacked jet under computer control)
I'm not going to debate if the technology exists, it clearly does
So your a pilot? And your telling me you could pull off a terrorist strike? Great: I wont say good for you
In your arrogance you seem to have missed the fact that the vast majority of people never fly jumbo jets, regardless if they believe the official story or question it
The balance of probability is what all humans have to deal with to define "reality": it exists nowhere else but inside our heads
However:
1) You havnt addressed how low this plane is supposed to have flown from the deck into the side of the Pentagon (or that magnificant turn the plane had to make to "line up" for the strike): Pilot or not (and it would be good to see proof of that) your not convincing me there
2) You havnt addressed the low credibility of why that one quality still is what has been presented as the evidance for the strike, or why, when better footage must exist
And good luck getting over yourself
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | You lot are complete morons, but don't take my word for it...go down the pub and tell the barman your thoughts on 9/11 |
Oh right - every barman I know is a genius.
I prefer to listen to a professor (Jones) or a university lecturer (Barrett). Oh wait - they must be morons as well as they disagree with you and your band of highly intelligent barmen. |
Oh please.
My point is that a common barman would likely have more grasp of reality than do you people.
As for Professor Jones; isn't he rather infamous for his crackpot ideas on "cold fusion"? Jones is at least a physicist...but his paper on the WTC collapse in which he posits demolition by thermate was never submited for peer review. One wonders why?
Here's what the other physicists at BYU have to say:
[quote]"The university is aware that Professor Steven Jones's hypotheses and interpretations of evidence regarding the collapse of World Trade Center buildings are being questioned by a number of scholars and practitioners, including many of BYU's own faculty members. Professor Jones' department and college administrators are not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review." The Fulton College of Engineering and Technology department has also added, "The structural engineering faculty in the Fulton College of Engineering and Technology do not support the hypotheses of Professor Jones."
So much for Jones....I believe my barman has more credibility at this point.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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blackcat
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | No, not true. The 757 actually directly impacted the secret office in charge of minding the slave labour camps located at area 51. The office of secretly stealing 2.3 thousand million kadillion is located just down the hall in the little known "Z" ring. (that's the invisible one) Rolling Eyes |
Fact 1
Cheney announces he cannot account for $2.3 Trillion missing from the Pentagon budget over previous 4 years. This on 8/112001. Easily checked as CBS covered the story.
Fact 2
The area of the Pentagon which was hit housed the bookkeeping and accounting department of the Pentagon and most killed there were bookkeepers and accountants. Easily checked - look up the list of those killed that day.
No slave labour camps. No kadillions. No invisible places. Just what is your point with the infantile response? Do you think denying facts with childish rhetoric makes them less than true? Why is this scandal not generating a national outrage? Why is the media not chasing it? Perhaps everyone in America is as dumb as you?
Last edited by blackcat on Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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blackcat
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Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As for Professor Jones; isn't he rather infamous for his crackpot ideas on "cold fusion"? |
No he is not. In fact "Cold fusion" is still being researched by many scientists around the world and the original work, though flawed, has enough merit to occupy many brilliant minds on further research. A simple check would have revealed this to you. Your barman is unlikely to know.
| Quote: | | his paper on the WTC collapse in which he posits demolition by thermate was never submited for peer review. One wonders why? |
A blatant lie and you know it. This has been covered elsewhere in this forum.
* off shill - you aren't worth the time. Go talk with your peers behind bars. |
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