"No Planes" - moved here to Critics Corner

[Eckyboy]

hey alwun thats a great link you provided. I have checked it before and the amazing cars that change colours at the pentagon is bizarre to say the least. I don't know if I agree with all of what Jack White is saying but it is certainly worth a look.

[Johnny Pixels]

[Eckyboy]

a lot of people seem to forget the power generator/trailer that is missing a huge chunk in front of the pentagon. Are we to believe the plane hit this and five lamp poles and then punched through the pentagon.

[paul wright]

[TimmyG]

dh. i don't mean to course offence. and i don't mean to insult your opinion.

if we were to meet up i think we could have a really good conversation.

but i think the quantum reality stuff should be left out of 9/11 debate. we have to accept that we exist in the same universe of atoms! and in this universe it is unlikely that the images of the planes that hit the wtc were manufactured by powerful individuals with the abilty to manipulate our detection of said atoms!

theres not much evidence to suggest the use of holograms at all. well theres none.

and if it was holograms, they would surely use their powers on a regular basis to do stuff like simulate missiles coming from iran

its a pretty crazy theory

[paul wright]

Timmy TIMMY huh Jimmy TIMMY TIMMY!!! (South Park afficianados only)
I wish I was you I'd get Timmy up as my avatar straight away

[paul wright]

[blackcat]

[TimmyG]

come on. stop confusing my atom receptors or i'll roll over you with my wheelchair. timmay!

[Johnny Pixels]

[Leiff]

Hello Johnny Pixels

If the poles were hit near the top by an airliner traveling at 100s of mph, I would expect that a large amount of momentum would be transferred to the pole. Notice the lack of damage to the grass in these pictures. What do you think?

[Johnny Pixels]

[Leiff]

Yes I agree with you - the no 757 at the Pentagon theory raises as many questions as it answers!

I just thought those poles looked a little staged in the pictures.

P.S.
Are the pole pictures working for you?

[blackcat]

[Johnny Pixels]

[blackcat]

[Johnny Pixels]

[quote="blackcat"]

[paul wright]

This is nitpicking of the most diversionary kind
What happened to the lamposts is of no interest except they seemed to have popped out of the ground. Is there an acceptable reason for this? No more than there is an acceptable explanation for that agent guy not reacting to a low-flying jet airliner,not reacting to a collision, only reacting to an eventual overhead explosion.
Speculation is fine but can just go on a bit too long

[Johnny Pixels]

[Johnny Pixels]

Please could anyone also explain when this light pole was planted, and why the driver of the white car and the taxi behind him never noticed the guys planting it?



More photos http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon_20020316.html including the damage to the taxi from the light pole, that someone planted right onto the windscreen. I wonder the taxi driver didn't just stop and ask why they were laying light poles out in the road.

[blackcat]

Witnesses saw missile

USA TODAY reporter Richard Benedetto says aircraft he saw hit the Pentagon 'sounded like an artillery shell.' (USA Today)

Pentagon Renovation project coordinator Michael DiPaula says aircraft that hit the Pentagon 'sounded like a missile.' (Baltimore Sun)

Space News editor Lon Rains was 'convinced a missile' hit the Pentagon by the way it sounded and how fast it flew in. (Space News)

Pentagon network engineer Tom Seibert said he heard what 'sounded like a missile' crash into the building. (Guardian)

http://killtown.911review.org/oddities/911.html#Pentagon_witnesses_mis sile


Describing aircraft very different than a Boeing 757

D. S. Khavkin says aircraft she and her husband saw fly overheard towards the Pentagon appeared to be a 'small' commercial aircraft. (BBC)

Steve Patterson says aircraft he saw crash into pentagon appeared to hold about '8 to 12 people' and sounded like a 'fighter jet.' (Washington Post)

USA Today Editor Joel Sucherman says he saw the body and tail of the aircraft that hit the Pentagon, but 'did not see the engines.' (CNN video)

http://killtown.911review.org/oddities/911.html#Pentagon_witnesses_dif ferent_plane



Witnessed no/little plane debris at crash site

CNN's Jamie McIntyre live at the Pentagon scene says there's no evidence a plane crashed anywhere near the building other than pieces that are small enough to pick up by hand. (CNN video)

Jamie Mcintryre, CNN correspondent

"From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.
The only site, is the actual side of the building that's crashed in. And as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.
Even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed, that didn't happen immediately. It wasn't until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed." - CNN (09/11/01) [Video archived at: Prison Planet; The Web Fairy]

http://killtown.911review.org/oddities/911.html#Pentagon_witnesses_dif ferent_plane

Engineer Steve DeChiaro says he was perplexed that a plane had crashed into Pentagon by seeing only a small hole in the building and seeing 'no tail, wings, no nothing'. (Memphis Online)

Army Captain Lincoln Liebner says remarkably there was 'no debris from the airplane' at the Pentagon when he got to the building. (Army)

Army Captain Allan Lindsley says he was 100 meters from the Pentagon crash site and didn’t see 'any of the plane.' (Army)

Nurse Eileen Murphy upon reaching the Pentagon crash scene says she was real surprised that the plane 'wasn't there.' (Army)

Sergeant First Class Maybon Pollock says he was in awe that he saw 'nothing left from the plane' at the Pentagon crash site after being told the size of the plane that had crashed there. (Army)

Will Jarvis of the Office of Secretary of Defense tried but failed to see the plane at the Pentagon saying there was just 'nothing left' and couldn’t see a 'tail or a wing or anything.' (U of T Magazine)

http://killtown.911review.org/oddities/911.html#Pentagon_witnesses_dif ferent_plane

[jake]

killtown's highly selective use of witnesses and quotes has been covered in another thread....

jamie mcintyre's quote about there being no evidence of a plane crashing anywhere near the pentagon is also frequently taken out of context to misrepresent what he was actually saying. that particular statement is made in answer to a question which asks if the plane might have landed short of the pentagon - and when he states that there are no large tail sections etc lying around, he's saying it to demonstrate that the plane went into the building and didn't land nearby....

watch the full video of his comments here:

http://www.terrorize.dk/911/pentagon1/911.pentagon.jamie.mcintyre.wmv

transcript here:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/11/bn.35.html

Outside the Pentagon, CNN's military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre.

And, Jamie, you got very close to where that plane went down.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Judy.

A short -- a while ago I walked right up next to the building, firefighters were still trying to put the blaze. The fire, by the way, is still burning in some parts of the Pentagon. And I took a look at the huge gaping hole that's in the side of the Pentagon in an area of the Pentagon that has been recently renovated, part of a multibillion dollar renovation program here at the Pentagon. I could see parts of the airplane that crashed into the building, very small pieces of the plane on the heliport outside the building. The biggest piece I saw was about three feet long, it was silver and had been painted green and red, but I could not see any identifying markings on the plane. I also saw a large piece of shattered glass. It appeared to be a cockpit windshield or other window from the plane.

When this plane hit the Pentagon this morning, according to the Pentagon spokesman, Craig Quigley, the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, incredibly is described as having run out of his office and down to actually help some of the victims onto stretchers until he was ushered into the National Military Command Center, the secure Nerve Center or War Room deep inside the Pentagon, where he remains at this time.

Pentagon officials say he will stay for the time being. That is a place where all of U.S. intelligence comes in and he has complete command with his commanders around the world.

At the same time, the Pentagon has dispatched several warships out of port Norfolk, including the U.S. -- the carriers, USS George Washington and USS Kennedy. The sensible reason for that, the movement of those ships and their escort ships, is to move them from more vulnerable positions. But the Navy says they'll also head some of the aircraft carriers up toward New York with the idea that they may be able to render some kind of assistance there, given the magnitude of the tragedy there.

Back here, the fight goes on to put out the fire inside the Pentagon. The heat from that blaze was described as absolutely intense, and the number of casualties here has still not been released. Dozens of people were taken away in ambulances, and the Pentagon is still not releasing any figures on deaths. But clearly, people who had offices in that, what is now a huge gaping hole in the side of the Pentagon, clearly, there was some people killed in this tragedy -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jamie, Aaron was talking earlier -- or one of our correspondence was talking earlier -- I think -- actually, it was Bob Franken -- with an eyewitness who said it appeared that that Boeing 757, the American jet, American Airline jet, landed short of the Pentagon. Can you give us any better idea of how much of the plane actually impacted the building?

MCINTYRE: You know, it might have appeared that way, but from my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. The only site is the actual site of the building that's crashed in, and as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you can pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around, which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.
Now, even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed; that didn't happen immediately. It wasn't until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed.

WOODRUFF: And Jamie, this happened -- we are now able to reconstruct -- about 9:38 this morning. At that time, Jamie, what are we talking about, dozens, hundreds of people at work in the building?

MCINTYRE: There are 24 thousand people who work in this building and most of them are at work at that hour of the morning. They were all evacuated from the building.

In my office, which is sort of halfway between where this took place and other side of the building, which is where the defense secretary's office is, eventually, even the corridor I was in began to fill up with smoke just as I began to leave the building.

But there are -- this was the prime time for an attack. However, it's not the prime location. Every time we've thought about what might happen if the Pentagon were subject of attack we assumed that the attack would come on the other side, the river entrance, where the brass are.

But this attack came on the side facing Arlington Cemetery.

WOODRUFF: All right, Jamie McIntyre, military affairs correspondence.

And just to underline what we're seeing at the Pentagon, nothing on the scale of the devastation in New York City, where you have two entire towers of the World Trade Center collapsing, but still, this is -- has to be the, supposedly, the most secure of secure buildings in Washington D.C., and an airplane, commercial airplane, flew right into it.

[blackcat]

[jake]

hmmmm - the point is that he was actually saying something very different from what your selective quote implies that he was saying.

were you aware of that or had you not seen the full video or transcript?

[Johnny Pixels]

And still how do we explain the light pole hitting a taxi, if the light poles were planted?

[blackcat]

I saw him and heard him a long time ago and I read the transcript of his statement sometime in the past as well. He is clearly trying to put a spin on his first report where he spoke of very little evidence of a plane crashing in to the Pentagon. He mentions small pieces and is astounded at the lack of evidence of a crash of a 757 at the Pentagon. Trying to twist his own words to make it sound like he was referring to a different crash "near" the Pentagon is feeble!

[blackcat]

[IronSnot]

[jake]

[blackcat]

Dead right its not rocket science - it is obvious. He reported what he saw which was that a 757 was not evident and that a plane had not appeared to have crashed. I am aware of the subsequent spin he tries to put on his words as I am aware he was NOT 500 yards away as stated earlier by "dodgy"( a man who prides himself on his "research"). His masters have clearly put pressure on him to make his statement mean something else and it is pitiful that gullible people cannot see what is blatantly going on here. There was no 757 and he said as much AT THE TIME!!! That unfortunately does not fit the alibi the evil b****** want to make for themselves so he has had to change it. In the intervening years they have produced a number of photographs and "witnesses" which show/tell exactly what they want. * to all the "evidence" that Dodgy is posting - it is nonsense just like the reporters slant on his own statement. Just how blatant does it have to be for you to get it. No 757 - like the man said. Like the firemen said. No bodies, no luggage, no wreckage, no 757.