Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject:
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Yes, the EU has brought benefits to many of the regions such as Wales, Ireland and Scotland. These are somewhere between a sop and a bribe. And I'd have hoped you could see that.
Again, this is both untrue and ridiculous! ROFL. Not only has the EU brought benefits in the UK through regional funds it has done so throughout the European Union as anyone who travels to countries like Greece and Spain will see.
Regional Development has always been a major plank of EU policy, vastly increasing the standard of living for millions of Europeans. From a capitalist point-of-view such development is good for the nation's GNP in the long term. It has nothing at all to do with being "a sop and a bribe".
And if it were then the entire EU is being bribed, not just the UK. This sort of preciousness is so typical of Britain's Europhobes and well-known to the rest of the world, not just Continentals. Nobody's bribing the UK. In fact many Europeans are so fed up with the Brits they are openly saying, if we won't support the European project it would be better if we leave altogether:
"Europe has come close to a deep division, which has only been avoided at the very last moment. This summit has shown that the political integration of the continent, which has been pursued for 50 years now, has adversaries within. An alliance of nationalists, neoliberal ideologues and Rumsfeld's New Europe is at work to reduce the continent to an internal market plus NATO. The 18 member states, which ratified the Constitutional treaty, underestimated the determination of this coalition and closed ranks too late.
Despite the absurd menaces and blackmail attempts of the [Polish] Kaczynski twins, the real bad guy of the summit is Tony Blair. The opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights he secured for the United Kingdom is unacceptable. Bearing in mind the universal principle of human and citizen rights', this opt-out is extremely destructive for the credibility of the European Union as a community of shared values both at home and abroad. These values are at the very heart of Europe and if the UK doesn't share in them it is openly putting into question its own Community membership. Instead of allowing an opt-out, the EU should rather accept that the UK leaves the European project for good."
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject:
The answer is: I don't really give a damn. Unlike a lot of miserly Englishmen I'm really not interested in balancing the books. Thatcherites do. And your attitude reminds me of Napoleon's description of England as a nation of shopkeepers.
More like a nation of spongers if your question is anything to go by. Anyway, like I say your question simply doesn't interest me. But the fact that you are unable to answer the questions I put to Leiff, Tony, you and the rest of the Europhobe rag-tag army that infest the Truth Forum is MOST significant.
I doubt it'll change your views but it may help you understand why so many of us are against the EU as it it currently proposed to be.
If it was a collection of European countries coming together to share trade, wealth and prosperity I would be flying the flag now. But I really feel that isn't the case.
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject:
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However seeing it for what it really is, yet another control mechanism, I'm not in favour of it.
So you're quite happy to continue living in a semi-feudal control mechanism in what is laughingly called a United Kingdom and to carry on with the vicious Special Relationship behind 911, Iraq and Afghanistan? Because that's what it amounts to.
I have asked various anti-EU people on this list including Pikey, Leiff and Tony if they have a third option to the following. No answer so far:
So I'll put it again. Is there a Third Option?
Option One: Withdraw from the EU and carry on with the present status quo of the USUK Alliance (try to go it alone and most likely end up joining NAFTA)?
Option Two: Carry on the struggle for a more democratic EU within the EU, forget ideas of withdrawal and support the idea of a European Defence force to help neutralise or remove the threat from the USA?
Option Three: ?
What most of you don't seem to realise is that once Britain lost its traditional market, the Commonwealth, it crossed the Rubicon from which there's no turning back.
So as the usual suspects in our little army of Europhobes cannot answer my question I ask anyone for their suggestions.
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Watch his documentary by We are Change Ireland. Let us know what you think.
I would make this very important point: it is one thing to campaign against the Lisbon Treaty and a completely different thing to campaign for withdrawal. Yet the issue is being confused (deliberately) by the Europhobes on this Forum.
The Irish will not be voting in a referendum whether to stay in or leave the EU. They will be voting on the Lisbon Treaty as required by their laws. No other country in the EU has such a legal requirement, hence will not be holding a referendum.
I have asked various anti-EU people on this list including Pikey, Leiff and Tony if they have a third option to the following. No answer so far: So I'll put it again. Is there a Third Option?
Option One: Withdraw from the EU and carry on with the present status quo of the USUK Alliance (try to go it alone and most likely end up joining NAFTA)?
Option Three: Carry on the struggle for a more democratic EU within the EU, forget ideas of withdrawal and support the idea of a European Defence force to help neutralise or remove the threat from the USA?
Option Three: ?
No option three, but I think I might have found Option Two:
Leave the EU and have a trading agreement with them instead! _________________ "Democracy is sustained not by public trust but by public scepticism"
George Monbiot
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject:
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Leave the EU and have a trading agreement with them instead!
Ok, this is like Norway and Iceland except for one major economic factor: the UK economy is very different to both those countries and withdrawal, after 35+ years from the EU would lead to massive economic dislocation.
The likelihood is we would then become a satellite of the NAFTA bloc, a part of North American hegemony and culture.
Politically, It would also mean that Britain would continue with the US in its present Special Relationship and Alliance and we would be eternally subject to the fascist rule that was imported here after 911 from Washington DC.
This is unproven. There would be positive factors too like less bureaucracy, fishing grounds back, trial by jury, presumption of innocence etc...
Rory Winter wrote:
Politically, It would also mean that Britain would continue with the US in its present Special Relationship and Alliance
We could always have a trading agreement with them.
Rory Winter wrote:
fascist rule that was imported here after 911 from Washington DC
This is what we are here for isn't it? You have been doing your bit for 9/11 Truth haven't you?
Rory Winter wrote:
Are 911 Truthers happy to accept such a future?
Are you recommending a corrupt, undemocratic bureaucracy that is totally unaccountable to the people (including making themselves immune from prosecution)?
The way the Constitution has been handled gives a good indication of what to expect from the EU in the future. I think the people of the UK and Europe deserve something far better than that. _________________ "Democracy is sustained not by public trust but by public scepticism"
George Monbiot
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:
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This is what we are here for isn't it? You have been doing your bit for 9/11 Truth haven't you?
You're not getting the point I repeatedly make about the paradox of 911 Truthers like you who in seeking to wreck the EU are supporting those in Washington like Bushco and the Neocon Right who are conspiring to do just the same thing! Ironic is it not?
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This is unproven.
But accepted as a real danger by economists. Of course, it will remain unproven until it happens. Then it'll be too late.
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trial by jury, presumption of innocence
The above two have nothing to do with the economy as you appear to suggest. We're talking here about the economy.
This system has already been undermined by the British state with its "Anti-Terror" laws and the removal of Habeas Corpus. I repeat, by the British state with no help from Brussels.
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Are you recommending a corrupt, undemocratic bureaucracy that is totally unaccountable to the people (including making themselves immune from prosecution)?
Clearly, I'm not and that would be clear to anyone who has read my several comments on this subject here and elsewhere on this Forum. Either you don't read what I write properly or you're very forgetful.
I have no problem with Europeans who wish to fight to democratise the EU. I do it myself here and in other fora. And I support groups like the European Left which is doing just that.
The difference between the Europhobes and our approach is that we choose to do it within the EU and not just whinge endlessly about what a terrible thing European unity would be and not actively join the campaign for democracy with their fellow-Europeans.
It's this endless thing about should we be in or out which is so tiresome. It's been going on for decades now. As quoted elsewhere, if Britain wants to constantly sabotage the European project then it would be better if it stopped whingeing and dropped out altogether.
It is one thing for Europeans to campaign for a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and quite another to hold a referendum on whether to stay or to go. The anti-EU people on this Forum are deliberately confusing the two issues and presenting them as the same in an attempt to hugely widen the amount of support they appear to be getting. It's totally dishonest.
If Britain were to have a referendum on either, however, I think we in Scotland might wish to have our own referendum as we see Scotland's future outside the present UK set-up. England and Wales should be allowed to make their own decisions without affecting Scotland.
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1491 Location: North Lancashire
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject:
Rory not surprised that you refused to reveal the truth concerning the question of public accountability I posted. The evidence is so incriminating it totally destroys any creditability the EU has.
Its all certainly about control and money is one of their most powerful control mechanisms.
911 was one of the biggest crimes ever carried out on Planet earth and as any time served 911 truth researcher and Columbo will tell you, follow the concept of "cui bono" and its likely to lead you to those responsible.
So my final question to you Rory is should every UK citizen have been given their democratic right to vote in a EU referendum?
A yes/no answer will suffice. _________________ Pikey
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject:
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So my final question to you Rory is should every UK citizen have been given their democratic right to vote in a EU referendum?
A referendum on the question of what exactly? The question is entirely hypothetical anyway. Ultimately any national referendum is decided, at present, in Westminster.
If the question is about withdrawal from the EU it should only be done after a process in which all arguments are fairly presented, something we've never had in Britain.
If the question is about the Lisbon Treaty it's really up to the government in power who'll decide as there is no constitutional law that requires one as I understand there is in Eire, the only country having a referendum on this.
I don't personally want either because I am a committed federalist as I have already stated elsewhere on these columns. If the USA, Australia, Canada, Switzerland et al can live happily in their federal set-ups I don't see why we can't in a federated EU.
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Rory not surprised that you refused to reveal the truth concerning the question of public accountability I posted.
You've had an answer on both these things from me. I'm simply not interested in your pecuniary attitude towards balance-sheet politics. Now how about answering my question above regarding the various options to remaining in the EU?
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911 was one of the biggest crimes ever carried out on Planet earth
2. "Imagine yourselves to be dictators of Europe"
The Dekker Paper, the Political Agenda and a Constituency for Delors - extract
http://www.bilderberg.org/bildhist.htm#dictators
__________________________________________________________
Tony, having now read the two essays mentioned in the above links, both which I found extremely interesting by the way, I am writing these notes in formulating the reply which I promised you. So forgive me if they are presented in bits and pieces.
I first became aware of the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission amongst others such as the Congress for Cultural Freedom in 1983 while doing some research for CND given me by Bruce Kent, its then Chairperson. The purpose of this research was to find out about the various organisations in the West which were promoting the Cold War.
While Holly Sklar's seminal book on Trilateralism produced tons of information on that group I was largely dependent on the State Research Bulletin for information on the Bilderberg Group, the Atlanticists of the old Labour Party including Denis Healy and the notorious Gang of Four who were largely responsible for destroying old Labour and paving the way for Thatcher. The SRB provided some excellent information on the infamous A Team-B Team exercise that took place in the US in which the hard-liners were able to fake a Soviet Menace in order to justify military and nuclear rearmament to the Reagan administration.
That exercise was an early version of the Dodgy Dossier more recently used as a justification for an attack on Iraq by the USUK.
Another extremely useful book on the ways that capitalism operated on unseen levels, in this case between the USA and the USSR, unfettered by the Cold War ideology being fed the masses. This was Vodka-Cola by Charles Levinson in which he described the policy of Convergence with the USSR being practised by the Nixon administration.
One story Levinson relates was that of a General Motors official decorated by Hitler who when challenged about this stated something along the lines of "in these matters we are above the control and interests of nation-states." Levinson goes onto to illustrate that while General Motors' Vauxhall and GM factories supplied arms to the Allies their Opel factories supplied Hitler and the Axis. At the end of the war, GM claimed and received millions of dollars of war reparations from the US government for the damage done by Allied bombers to their Opel factories in Germany! Another was the revelation that all through the 'seventies the US supplied the USSR with ball-bearings for the gyroscopes in their guided nuclear Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles and second-generation IBM computers for their nuclear Early-Warning System.
We are told that Lenin financed the Russian Revolution in Wall Street. We know Grandpa Prescott Bush helped finance Hitler and so on. Capital will first fund and then play both sides against each other with the winner taking all.
This idea simply became more sophisticated with groups like the CFR, Bilderberg and the Trilats who spend their time planning and mapping the future of capital within the power blocs it helps create. What your articles illustrate is how this has been done by the Bilderberg Group in relation to the founding of what is now known as the European Union.
While I found both articles interesting I have to repeat what I said earlier on. As Mike Peters in his essay observes a lot has changed since the events he described. The European Union is now increasingly challenging the old US imperialist model, friction is growing. And where the US originally planned a joint project with the Europeans through helping to set up European unity it saw the problems which were arising and started over by setting up a new power bloc, NAFTA.
This process of the shifting balance and realignment of powers Peters describes in the alternative Kautsky theory he quotes and that is actually what has happened. Hence the old political arrangement that Peters uses, merely as a case in point to illustrate his criticism of British academics, is already history. What the Dekkers article describes may be more relevant to the current plans of Eurocrats.
What both describe, however, is the development of a capitalist power bloc now called the European Union. A power bloc that is predictably morphing into something quite different to that which was intended by its erstwhile supporters in the USA. And it is in recognizing that that I have put the question about where 911 Truthers should put their energy; ie in supporting the inexorable process of divergence that is taking place between the US and the EU or the present status quo of an Atlantic Alliance that Sarkozy is now trying to bolster by palling-up with Gordon Brown?
If they choose the idea of Britain leaving the EU then they are jumping from the frying pan into the fire. For Britain to leave the EU will only delay the process of that divergence, it won't stop it. But Britain will fall ever deeper into the present Atlantic alliance and probably into NAFTA as it is very unlikely it will be able to go it alone like Norway and Switzerland which are not comparable cases.
Of course we can all just throw up our arms and say a plague on all their houses, they're all capitalists playing the same game. That's true and they are. But in the present world we have no choice but to choose between brands of capitalism. That's why I say that in this limited world I choose the social-democratic brand traditionally associated with the EU now under attack by the forces of what is called neoliberalism.
Leaving the EU would not only be economically and socially disruptive. It would leave us just where we are today: a fledgeling British police state with all the rights afforded us under the Lisbon Treaty thrown away & under the total control of Washington, DC.
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 197 Location: Totnes, Devon, UK
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject:
Rory, I used to think like you and I was pro-European, as I never wanted to be associated with the blue rinse brigade in the Tory Party. However, upon further investigation, partly thanks to the kind of people who contribute to this site, I now realise that the European Union is an integral part of the New World Order's plans to abolish democracy and replace it with a one world fascist police state.
I still am pro-European, I am lucky enough to travel to Europe every month or so on business, and I have some great friends in Europe, so it is in the interest of all pro-Europeans in all European countries to campaign against the undemocratic European Union. As much as someone who resides in the UK, I don't want Britain to become a fascist police state, nor do I want my friends in Holland to live in a fascist police state either, or any other European. All the people of Europe should unite against the EU and some of the evil directives that are coming out of Europe, such as Codex Alimentarius.
Like I said, I used to be in favour of the European Union, I even used to believe some of the rubbish that you have written in your posts, however, I am big enough to admit that I had been duped and was wrong. I now know that it is not a good thing for our natural medicines to be banned in favour of pharmaceutical drugs or for GM food to be forced on me and my children with no labeling requirements so that I will not even know if I am buying GM food (or non-Organic).
I could go on, but I will point you to an excellent resource that tells the truth about the EU - www.eutruth.org.uk
Chris. _________________ Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Last edited by Dr Hemp on Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:41 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject:
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and I have some great friends in Europe
So do I, next door. I live in Scotland, Europe I write profusely on things European on this Forum so that the anti-EU lot and the Europhobes can't have it all their way. There are many reasons why I remain a European federalist and one is that as a 911 Truther I recognise that the chief danger comes from its US conspirators, Bushco &c and that in the world we live in I'd rather be part of a European power bloc than fall into NAFTA, the American one.
Going it alone for Britain will never work for the reasons I have tried to outline in these columns.
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it is in the interest of all pro-Europeans in all European countries to campaign against the undemocratic European Union
I wholeheartedly support that. But doing so within the EU, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater by leaving it as our anti-EU friends here would have us.
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I even used to believe some of the rubbish that you have written
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1491 Location: North Lancashire
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject:
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A referendum on the question of what exactly? The question is entirely hypothetical anyway. Ultimately any national referendum is decided, at present, in Westminster.
If the question is about withdrawal from the EU it should only be done after a process in which all arguments are fairly presented, something we've never had in Britain.
If the question is about the Lisbon Treaty it's really up to the government in power who'll decide as there is no constitutional law that requires one as I understand there is in Eire, the only country having a referendum on this.
I don't personally want either because I am a committed federalist as I have already stated elsewhere on these columns. If the USA, Australia, Canada, Switzerland et al can live happily in their federal set-ups I don't see why we can't in a federated EU.
Thats a typical political response to imo a simple straightforward and reasonable question. Maybe your aspiring to become an MEP Rory?
An outstanding post or dare I say blog from Dr Hemp, absolutely spot on imho!
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I don't need any lectures from you about that. I've been exposing the 911 Conspiracy on my blogs and Mailing lists since Autumn 2001. Yes, & those culprits are precisely the US, Washington DC-based conspirators who'd like to destroy the EU as you do. Ironic innit?
As I've had the privilege of meeting many of Scotlands finest 911 truthers, Keith M, Kenny M etc I'm therefore surprised that we have not met Rory and also that your a validated poster. Validated by who?
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:53 am Post subject:
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Thats a typical political response to imo a simple straightforward and reasonable question
You mean you can't understand it? Your question was far from straightforward, it was ambiguous like so much more of the ill-thought out views of the Europhobes in these columns. I was attempting to clarify the question, that's all, no fudging whatsoever.
Your original question was characteristically over-simplistic and didn't make clear what kind of referendum you are referring to, on what subject. As for the questions I have put to you that remain unanswered, it's very clear you will not answer them because you can see the mess you will get into, the paradox I have clearly exposed in an argument that will not go away.
Hence, let it be seen by all who are fair-minded and can see the logic in what I have argued: for 911 Truthers to argue Britain's withdrawal from the EU will put this country right into the Jaws of the Beast in Washington DC like nothing else can and has done so far.
Britain then will be doomed to follow a London-Washington military, fascist alliance for ever. The conspirators behind 911, 77 and many similar false flag incidents will have scored a huge victory.
Sour grapes, eh? I don't know where the Validated thing comes from (I see you have it as well) or what it means. May be something about my being one of the Scottish moderators or the number of posts. I have been on this Forum since 2005 or 2006 and have been using my own blogs and Mailing List to warn of a 911 Conspiracy since the Autum of 2001. And my track record is there for all to see. No conspiracies there for you, I'm afraid, except the one we both oppose in 911 &c.
Ambitions to become an MEP? No, my party political days are long over. Too much dirty stuff in party politics for my liking and my four years in local government was close enough to all that nonsense making me to have to take regular hot baths in salt or vinegar solution!
I went into local government primarily to help protect the dolphins and whales in the Moray Firth. As it happened I also fought hard against the Poll Tax, was responsible for closing down a toxic incinerator using European directives and master-minded a blocking of nuclear fissile material being taken to Dounreay in 1991 on the public highway, the first time such direct action had taken place in the UK ... which proves the point what a tiny handful can do if they have the courage and initiative.
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As I've had the privilege of meeting many of Scotlands finest 911 truthers, Keith M, Kenny M etc
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:
The power behind the EU is the commission and it's always been elitist. Oligarchical.
Like, 'we are the chosen few', when actailly they are the rejected many.
People who have been kicked out of office by voters.
Rory Winter wrote:
Tony, what you call fascists were mainly social-democrats ......
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:47 am Post subject:
Quote:
The power behind the EU is the commission and it's always been elitist. Oligarchical.
Like, 'we are the chosen few', when actailly they are the rejected many.
People who have been kicked out of office by voters.
I'm not even disputing that. Why else would the Europarliament (EP) have been created with no real powers? And why can the Commission always override it? Because the Parliament was the sop that the oligarchs had to provide to give it a semblance of democracy.
But that Parliament is a reality now and constantly challenges the Commission and Ministers. We who are committed to democracy and truth should be supporting it to the hilt and not writing it off!
With the shift away from social democracy in national governments to 'neo-liberal' and neo-conservative corporate fascism so inevitably has this shift been reflected in both the Council of Ministers and the Commission. Where Commision policy was roughly akin to social democracy it is now shifting towards corporate fascism.
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject:
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Rory Winter, pimping for the EU federalist superstate using our supposed linkage with the US as leverage.
Oh no, more of this endless, insulting sh!te. I refuse to continue a dialogue with people who adopt this attitude. Instead of responding to what Xmasdale & I have said above, Newspeak continues the abuse.
What's the point? It's you, Newspeak, who appears to be pimping here with the usual, Europhobic propaganda. As for a federal Europe, I am not in the least bit wishing to pimp: I have clearly declared my position and my belief that a European Federation would not threaten our freedom.
And yet people like you go on and on with this stuff. So what's your option then Newspeak? Go on, tell us, it would be good to hear something beyond the usual Europhobic whinge.
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Tell us how can a One World Government be acheived without this EU
multi-tentacled monster
I do stand for ultimate planetary federation, see my footer, One Planet, One People, One Destiny. Planetary citizenship is an entirely different thing to the NWO globalist agenda.
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 1158 Location: South Essex
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject:
Rory Winter wrote:
Quote:
Rory Winter, pimping for the EU federalist superstate using our supposed linkage with the US as leverage.
Oh no, more of this endless, insulting sh!te. I refuse to continue a dialogue with people who adopt this attitude. Instead of responding to what Xmasdale & I have said above, Newspeak continues the abuse.
What's the point? It's you, Newspeak, who appears to be pimping here with the usual, Europhobic propaganda. As for a federal Europe, I am not in the least bit wishing to pimp: I have clearly declared my position and my belief that a European Federation would not threaten our freedom.
And yet people like you go on and on with this stuff. So what's your option then Newspeak? Go on, tell us, it would be good to hear something beyond the usual Europhobic whinge.
Quote:
Tell us how can a One World Government be acheived without this EU
multi-tentacled monster
I do stand for ultimate planetary federation, see my footer, One Planet, One People, One Destiny. Planetary citizenship is an entirely different thing to the NWO globalist agenda.
PS: It's curious how the Irish We Are Change group seems to be using a name that is normally associated with 911 Truth ...
Oh yeah the Gaia creed:
GLOBAL AWAKENING!
ONE PLANET, ONE PEOPLE, ONE DESTINY
Planetary Link-Up; Aquarian Values; Exopolitics; Galactic Confederation; Mayan Calendar; Rainbow Dream Visions; Contemporary Shamans; Radical Deep Ecology; Global Pow-Wows; New Age Radical Vision and Action; Clearing House for Alternative News Sources
___________________________________________
There's nothing 'New Age' in most of this, rather a rehashing of ancient
traditions and mass manipulation techniques,including the taking of magic mushrooms,and animal and human sacrifices.
How many thousands of years would you wish humanity to return to in the mystical Aquarian age Rory? _________________ http://www.myspace.com/glassasylum2
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject:
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How many thousands of years would you wish humanity to return to in the mystical Aquarian age Rory?
My reply is read THE AQUARIAN CONSPIRACY by Marilyn Ferguson and GLOBAL BRAIN by Peter Russell and educate yourself what Gaian Consciousness is truly about.
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There's nothing 'New Age' in most of this, rather a rehashing of ancient traditions and mass manipulation techniques,including the taking of magic mushrooms,and animal and human sacrifices.
One thing you're really good at is to make grotesque distortions. Your pseudonym is therefore appropriate. You seem to be very much into Newspeak.
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And yet people like you go on and on with this stuff. So what's your option then Newspeak? Go on, tell us, it would be good to hear something beyond the usual Europhobic whinge.
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 1158 Location: South Essex
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject:
It is very easy to get the wrong end of the stick on the net,in this case it seems I have.I misconstrued your links as endorsement, I was mistaken and I apologise.
You are wrong about the EU, to slate Brian Gerrish as a Europhobe
when he openly states otherwise of the idea in principle, it's corruption and manipulation clearly states it's true intentions.
You seem so very keen to align yourself to the EU,after all we know now,
which I find most displeasing,sorry. _________________ http://www.myspace.com/glassasylum2
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject:
No probs, pal. I've a thick skin anyway when it comes to a verbal free-for-all on the Net!
Those links are to my blogs and Mailing Lists.
My views about why I support the EU are widely expressed on this Forum. Yes, I do support a federal Europe but I do not, in the least, support either the Eurocrats who work for the Council of Ministers of that august Star Chamber.
My views are for the need of a grassroots, national and all-Europe movement for parliamentary democracy as expressed in articles starting with this one below:
Nigel Farage on who's who in the EU commission. There's a lot of work needs to be done to fix this Rory. _________________ "The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell.
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:39 am Post subject:
Farage is spot-on in matters where he attacks the Commission on many things. Other MEPs do as well you know. We just don't hear about them.
As presently constituted the Europarliament is a joke. But it's not in the interests of the Ministers and the Commission Eurocrats to change that. Only the people of Europe can bring about a change by giving their support to the Europarliament.
So where is the political movement to campaign for such a thing? Would UKIP be prepared to change its tack, withdraw its present policy and replace it with one for a constitutional struggle which would get far more support than its present policy?
Being an MEP in the Europarliament seems to have changed our Nige. He very often says things which while critical of the Commission and the Ministers is actually favourable towards the Europarliament.
I would guess that in gaining knowledge as an MEP and sharing the common experience, frustrations and anger many MEPs feel at the arrogant manner in which they are only too often treated by the Commission he now appreciates where the real problem of misplaced power lies.
Rory, remember that King you had up in Scotland called James VI, who, through our great misfortune, you lot exported south to become James I and so started the Stuart dynasty resulting in the Englisn Civil War, well, he was known as "the wisest fool in Christendom". When it comes to your undying trust for...and faith in... the EU, I feel that you have just taken on and inherited James' mantle. _________________ Connect to Infinite Consciousness - enjoy the ride!
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject:
Well, really it's a hope that we people in Europe will step in at the right moment to remind the Eurocrats where the sovereign power really lies. We can't go back to the old ways, they're dead & gone. We can only look forward to the new and where the EU is concerned I think the time for a re-evolutionary change is well nigh.
That is why I believe that we must work for an all-European Democracy Movement along the lines proposed. This would be the next stage to the Irish referendum but the time for a dialogue is now.
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject:
Rory Winter wrote:
Oh no, more of this endless, insulting sh!te. I refuse to continue a dialogue with people who adopt this attitude.
Rory glad to hear you say that but of course you don't actually mean it - can't you see it's you that's pissing everybody else off? Have you noticed that the topic has become all about you and nothing to do with the EU. And what's more you have lost the argument because you haven't made any substantive points. Not one.
Do you see what I'm pointing out? No?
Despite polite PMs to me you aren't listening to my concerns at all - I want a decent discussion and debate on the finer points of the EU fascist state.
You don't believe it is a fascist state so every time someone discusses that you take over and block the discussion.
Repeating this is getting very boring.
If you do that any more I'm going to move your posts to a new thread. Other users please help by PMing me if Rory continues doing this.
I hope people (no not you Rory) feel that's an acceptable outcome.
Now can we get back to discussing this please which was the last post before Rory's intervention? The discussion was just getting gpoing at that point.
911Eyewitness wrote:
Over the weekend I watched the BBC Parliament and saw Brown speak about how the British people wanted that Global Europe and that globalisim is the goal to be achieved. No one opposed his statement and they instead cheered him. Does anyone understand that globalisim is the new world order from the commercial side?
I have to carry that stupid American mantel for the accident of birth and have watched how a distant federal government undermines states and peoples rights. You are all in this growing disease and yes it is a sort of "gradualism". They will carry on because they have disarmed their subjects and fattened them from their teats. No one stands and the few that may be willing are subject to becoming branded terrorists and loosing all rights because society will follow the will of those who own the means of production.
Watching the old European states fold themselves into a distant government with no elected officials, seeing the rulers educate the subjects in mandatory schooling to accept queen and destiny is hairy to say the least. The new "treaty" actually says that the EU grants the rights of states to suggest modifications to any laws. Imagine that? The EU believes it can grant rights to state parliaments! Things they can grant are things it can take away. There will soon be no place to live where their declaratory subjugations do not reach.
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=111520#111520
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Rory,
Despite polite PMs to me you aren't listening to my concerns at all - I want a decent discussion and debate on the finer points of the EU fascist state.
You don't believe it is a fascist state so every time someone discusses that you take over and block the discussion.
Repeating this is getting very boring.
If you do that any more I'm going to move your posts to a new thread. Other users please help by PMing me if Rory continues doing this.
I hope people (no not you Rory) feel that's an acceptable outcome.
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I write profusely on things European on this Forum so that the anti-EU lot and the Europhobes can't have it all their way. There are many reasons why I remain a European federalist and one is that as a 911 Truther I recognise that the chief danger comes from its US conspirators, Bushco &c and that in the world we live in I'd rather be part of a European power bloc than fall into NAFTA, the American one.
