Tatchell against (Ahmadinejad for) 911 Truth

[xmasdale]

[xmasdale]

I have just found the link to pictures of Peter Tatchell holding up his two allegedly offensive and Islamophobic placards on the Al Quds pro-Palestinian march and rally in London last Sunday, 7 October 2007. Click on this link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/outrage/1524887661/in/set-721576023337893 56/

One placard sports a Palestinian flag and bears the slogan: FREE PALESTINE - END ISRAELI OCCUPATION

The other reads: OPPOSE THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAN - SUPPORT THE PEOPLE OF IRAN

Can someone please explain to me what is offensive and Islamophobic about either of these placards?

I might expect fanatical Zionists as a knee-jerk reaction to claim that Peter's placard about Palestine was anti-Jewish, as any criticism of the Israeli government will always elicit that response from some, but have we now reached a situation where any criticism of the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran will be condemned, in similar knee-jerk fashion, as anti-Islamic?

Am I wrong to wonder if supporters of the Iranian government are now playing the same game which they condemn supporters of the Israeli government for playing: smearing as racist and intolerant of their religion anyone who criticises their government?

Someone please explain.

[karlos]

this was his placard at a previous Palestinian rally.
this time he seems to be surrounded by police meaning he is expecting trouble.
I ask the question why hold a banner about IRAN when the day was to rally about PALESTINE?
That is called highjacking a rally.

[conspiracy analyst]

[xmasdale]

Peter Tatchell has sent us this statement. Since he is being vilified in this thread, I don't think we should deprive him of his right of reply.



Join the online debate, make a contribution. Click on the Guardian
link below and post a comment – for or against.

Islamists betray Palestine

When supporters of Palestine ally with Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah, they
undermine support for the Palestinian cause

By Peter Tatchell

The Guardian - London, UK - Comment Is Free – 12 October 2007

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2007/10/islamists_b etray_palestine.html


Al Quds Day is a day of international protest in support of the
Palestinian people. It was originated by the leader of the Iranian
Islamist revolution, Ayatollah Khomeini.

In London, this year's Al Quds demonstration - held last Sunday - had
the themes of: "End Child Killing! End Oppression! End Israeli
Apartheid!"

It was supported by the left-wing Respect Party, 1990 Trust, Muslim
Association of Britain, Islamic Human Rights Commission, Hizb
ut-Tahrir and the Federation of Student Islamic Societies. The
post-march Trafalgar Square rally was addressed by the Respect Party
MP, George Galloway, and by the former Daily Express journalist,
Yvonne Ridley.

As a long time supporter of justice for the Palestinian people, I
decided to join the protest. I am against Israel's illegal occupation
of the West Bank, its divisive Berlin-style wall, its illegal nuclear
weapons programme and its often indiscriminate military operations
that kill innocent Palestinian civilians.

But I object to the way the Al Quds Day marches invariably hijack the
Palestinian cause and use the occasion to also support the tyrannical,
Holocaust-denying Iranian regime and its fundamentalist, terrorist
offshoots, Hamas and Hezbollah – two organisations that mirror the
Israeli disregard for international law, human rights and innocent
civilians.

Defenders of Hamas and Hezbollah claim that these two movements have
popular support. True. So did the Nazis. Hitler won the most votes in
the 1933 elections. But that did not make him right or justify his
anti-humanitarian policies.

By aligning justice for Palestine with the injustice of the Iranian
autocracy, Al Quds Day undermines international sympathy and support
for the Palestinian people. While it suits the public relations
purposes of the tyrants in Tehran to pose as anti-imperialists and
defenders of an oppressed people, Iran's support for Palestine is the
kiss of death.

The London Al Quds march was almost exclusively Muslim and fairly
devout, judging by the preponderance of hijabs and beards. I joined
the marchers, carrying two placards. See here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/outrage/1524887661/in/set-721576023337893 56/
One with a Palestinian flag and the slogan 'Free Palestine,' and the
other emblazoned with the words: "Oppose the government of Iran,
Support the people of Iran."

The latter placard included a photograph of a 16-year-old Iranian
girl, Atefeh Rajabi Sahaaleh, who was publicly hanged in 2004 in the
city of Neka for 'crimes against chastity,' after having been sexually
abused during her early teenage years. Tehran hanged the female victim
of abuse, not the male perpetrators. Then the ayatollahs lied that she
was 22, to cover up the fact that they had hanged a minor, contrary to
international human rights laws that Iran has signed.

This case of state-sponsored murder is, of course, just one aspect of
a much wider pattern of human rights abuses by the Iranian regime,
including the arrest and torture of student and trade union activists;
the execution of Sunni Muslim leaders and ethnic Arabs and Baluchs;
the closure of newspapers and detention without trial of journalists;
and the arrest of over 100,000 women for the crime of dressing
"immodestly" (such as letting a few wisps of hair show from under
their hijab).

The Iranian regime has all the characteristics of fascism, albeit in a
clerical form. Its suppression of human rights is on a par with
Franco's Spain, PW Botha's South Africa and Pinochet's Chile. But
whereas the latter three dictatorships provoked global protests,
Tehran's tyranny elicits mostly silence and inaction from left and
liberal opinion. Why the double standards?

As soon as I turned up at the Al Quds demo, I was subjected to a
barrage of violent, threatening invective from large sections of the
crowd. Some started chanting: 'Tatchell is a Zionist, Tatchell is a
paedophile. Get out! Get out! Get out!'

This paedophile slander was accompanied by allied falsehoods that I
support "western attacks on Muslim lands" – despite my long-standing
opposition to Russia's war in Chechnya,
http://doughty.gdbtv.com/player.php?h=621e542b48c94396d21b89540bd24962

the war in Iraq
http://doughty.gdbtv.com/player.php?h=d95a9506c38e6f13a04a9738a00dc29e #

and plans for a US attack on Iran.
http://doughty.gdbtv.com/player.php?h=28f97edb1620dd21d5c707d55cdd0f21

Such lies show the moral depravity of many Islamists, who readily
borrow from the tactics of Stalinists and the BNP to smear and
discredit anyone who disagrees with them. Indeed, some fundamentalist
leaders have admitted that it is morally acceptable for Muslims to lie
in order to defeat "infidels" and to advance the Islamist cause.

I was treated to a torrent of hatred all the way from Hyde Park to
Trafalgar Square. Some of the Al Quds marchers shouted things like:
'You are all Zionists and CIA agents. How much money did Bush pay you
to come here today?' Others claimed: "Stop posing as a supporter of
Palestine. You have never supported Palestine" – malevolently
disregarding the fact that I was a founder member of the Palestine
Solidarity Campaign in 1982.

Six of the Al Quds marchers made attempts to physically attack me. It
was only police intervention that stopped them.

What I found odd is that the people who abused and attacked me were
supposedly ultra-devout Muslims. Yet their manner was more thuggish
than pious. Like their Iranian mentors, they no doubt claim to
represent true, pure Islam. In my view they behaved in a most
unIslamic and unreligious way; offering very negative, unattractive
caricatures of the Islamic faith and the Muslim community.

Many of the marchers appeared to identify with pro-Iranian Shia
fundamentalism, which preaches a gospel of hatred and violence against
Jews, gay people and even against other Muslims who disagree with
their fundamentalist interpretation of Islam.

None of my Muslim friends believe this bigoted nonsense, and most
Muslims in Britain reject such intolerance. In my prison and asylum
work, helping many gay and straight Muslims, I am constantly
encouraged by imams who show great compassion and tolerance. They
happily work with me, despite my atheism and gayness. This is the
kind, gentle face of Islam that never seems to be newsworthy.

A different kind of Muslim predominated last Sunday. Many of the
marchers were carrying Hezbollah flags and chanting: 'We are all
Hezbollah now.' When I pointed out that Hezbollah kills innocent
Israeli civilians, and endorses the execution of women and gay people
who transgress their extremist version of Islam, I was told things
like: "That's good. Society has to have order. These punishments are
necessary for the good of society."

On a positive note, several Al Quds marchers, nearly all women and
nearly all wearing the hijab, expressed their support. One confided:
"We don't agree with the Iranian regime either. Killing that young
girl was wrong." Another said: "Islam is about love and peace. Don't
listen to the fanatics. We are only here because we support
Palestine." One other marcher told me: "I am glad you joined us. What
you are saying needs to be said. I don't support anyone being
oppressed."

Such responses were gratifying to hear. It shows that there are
progressive Muslims, even on Al Quds demonstrations. Too often it is
only the fundamentalist voices that are heard in the media. People are
seriously mistaken, and unfair, when they lump together all Muslims as
one reactionary mass. As with Jews, Christians, Hindus and atheists,
the Muslim community also has its illiberals and its liberals. Bravo
for liberals and progressives everywhere – including in Britain,
Israel and Palestine.

Addendum:
Since the Iranian regime's apologists always falsely accuse me of
supporting a US attack on Iran, I will preempt their malicious
attempts at character assassination by making my position clear:

I am not suddenly taking on the Iranian regime. I have supported the
Iranian people's struggle for democracy and human rights for four
decades - first against the western-backed imperial fascist Shah and,
since 1979, against the clerical fascism of the ayatollahs.

I do not support a US attack on Iran. Military intervention would
strengthen the position of the hardliners in Tehran; allowing
President Ahmadinejad to play the nationalist card. Using the pretext
of national security and defending the country against imperialism, he
would further crack down on dissent.

Some anti-war and left-wing campaigners refuse to condemn the Tehran
dictatorship and refuse to support the Iranian people's resistance;
arguing that to do so would play into the hands of the US neocons and
militarists. I disagree. Opposing imperialism and defending human
rights are complementary, not contradictory.

[blackbear]

Xmasdale, you come across as a sad Tatchell groupie.

"Hezbollah..kills innocent Israeli civilians"........evidence please..

I wonder if Tatchell gave a * about the 3500 innocent civilians murdered by Israel in 1982 in Sabra + Shatila. (Kapeliouk...Israeli journalist). Or the 1000+ Lebanese last summer. (many gay..gosh)

I wonder if this zionist nazi whore has written much about the thousands of Lebanese + Palestinians rotting away in Israeli jails. (many gay...gosh)

Who would you vote for........Hamas...or the Israeli controlled Fateh.

Can any one see the gay elephant in de nile.!

For those needing to come out .......try reading the posts of Alice the Kurious at Rigorous Intuition.

[xmasdale]

[ian neal]

[blackbear]

Hello Xmasdale.....

Stelios started this thread....

"Ahmadinejad for 911 truth
Ahmadinejad joined a growing list of world leaders to openly come out for 911 truth. "

The second post was by you......you paste a recent interview + article by Tatchell....

" The Iranian regime is a neo-fascist state......
The case for regime change is overwhelming...."

You state give him the right to reply. Fair enough, can't he register + post himself. Or is Tatchell so busy working on stratergies to defend the gays of Lebanon + Palestine from an early death by the nazi supremacist state of Israel.

Xmasdale states...

" I believe this is not an appropriate time to highlight human rights abuses in Iran,......"........bit late for that

You also state.....

"But if people keep making slanderous attacks on this thread, those accused do have the right of reply...."

Slander.....false reports maliciously uttered to person's injury,utterance or prevalence of such reports...

Xmasdale.....perhaps you are now his legal advisor + secretary.

Has he invited you to the following: Oxford University debate on One State v Two State. I wonder how he will vote.!

[conspiracy analyst]

[paul wright]

[conspiracy analyst]

[paul wright]

[conspiracy analyst]

[xmasdale]

[gareth]

[karlos]

[gareth]

I'm just saying that in my opinion, as i was actually there and all, that Peter didn't appear to be disrupting anything or diverting the message as you've alleged on this thread and in group emails.

[ian neal]

Stellios

In one of the emails you circulated on this subject, you spoke of the need to deny Peter the oxygen of publicity. Surely by continuing to circulate emails to long lists, debating this here, calling Peter names that he clearly considers semars, calling on the Green Party to reject his candidature and for 'us' to demand Peter attends a rally and writes only approved statements on his placard, etc. you are perpetuating the very publicity you would rather he and his ideas were denied. And all for what? I have already explained Peter's campaigning is independent of the 9/11 truth campaign.

[conspiracy analyst]

[quote="xmasdale"]

[karlos]

The reason for this debate dragging on is simple.
We need to counter Tatchell's spin.
The reason for the group emails is also so that people get both sides of the story and get to judge Tatchell's own words and actions for themselves. I never started the debate on Tachell but somebody had to counter the lies that were being told.
Tatchell's statement was emailed out so it was necessary to email a rebuttal to give people an accurate view.
Tatchells words against Iran are stronger than Bush, Blair or Brown's.
Tatchell calls for regime change non of the others say this, Tatchell calls it a dictatorship Bush, Blair or Brown do not, Tatchell calls for an armed insurgency Bush, Blair or Brown dont. Tatchell compares Hezbollah and Hamas to Nazis - Bush, Blair or Brown do not.
Read his own words and compare them with Bush, Blair or Brown etc.
Tatchells are far worse.


This topic was simply about Ahmadinejad and his public views regarding the need for the REAL culprits of 911. Meaning he like Castro and Chavez says 911 is an inside job.

[karlos]

These are quotes about Tatchell from various LGBT muslims:

Tatchell's comments were attacked by the LGBT Muslim group Imaam. Farzana from the group told Gay Times: "We feel that OutRage! doesn't understand our cultural and religious sensitivities. Often, the way they word and phrase their press releases can and does antagonise Muslims. Much as we've invited them to meetings so we can talk about the best way to tackle Muslim LGBT issues, they insist on doing things their way."

Gay Times, December 2006

"As a gay Muslim, I am sick and tired of middle class, middle aged white men like Tatchell and Casson telling people like me what we should do and how we should react while they're going around kicking Muslims in the teeth."

"Peter I have to completely disagree with you. You say you do not want to stoke anti-Islamic feeling but when you hear increasing anti-Muslim rhetoric in the gay press you have to ask yourself how Outrage has contributed to it. In my opinion and given all of the press releases sent out by Outrage I have to say as a Muslim and as Imaan chair that your press releases stink of anti-Islamic insinuation that the media (inc the gay media) reeks of these days. Imaan will not aide and abet this sickening wave of Islamaphobia and does not take kindly when it is dressed up as gay rights. I think its a crude way of fighting and makes our job harder."

"Peter, you either don't understand or don't care that the methods/wording that Outrage employs offends Muslims. We are Muslims. You either don't understand or again don't care that the UK is experiencing a wave of Islamaphobia and that has huge implications and impacts ALL Muslims including us."

"Nick Griffin has always maintained that Islam is a 'wicked, vicious faith' Peter, statements which are not far removed from yours, if not the same ... you have a narrow, confrontational way of doing things where gay rights trump all other rights and d**n everyone else if they are injured in the process. So you'll campaign against Muslim private law courts in Ontario for example, even though Jews and Chrsitians have them. For you, Sharia means stoning people to death. For you, the idea of a Caliphate is a barbaric regime which does the same. You'll protest when the MCB speaks at a United Against Fascism rally. For you, the hijab is a symbol of totalitarian Nazi oppression. And so on and so forth. In fact, all the things that right-wing commentators would agree with, including the BNP. You lend legitimacy to them."

"Just recently Outrage seems to have jumped on Islam as the only current enemy to your cause and in the current atmosphere of Islamophobia … it's really unhelpful. Whether you intend it or not you are helping stoke a very dangerous fire and it worries me that however many people (most of them the LGBT Muslims you claim to be concerned about) tell you this, you don't seem able to accept it."

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/2006/11/30/gay-mu slims-clash-with-tatchell.html

[xmasdale]

[quote="conspiracy analyst"]

[xmasdale]

[xmasdale]

[quote="jazds"]I've asked to be unsubscribed but no one has unsubscribed me.

Of course these things are more important but I'm fed up of reading on here wild accusations, opinions and assertions with no reference to reality just a personal opinion! How can you draw an opinion if the end result is based on your own bigotry and not facts?

[quote]

I fed up of reading such stuff too. But you don't have to be unsubscribed to stop posting on or reading this website. No one is forcing you to do either.

[karlos]

PRESS RELEASE: African LGBTI Human Rights Defenders Warn Public Against Participation in Campaigns Concerning LGBTI Issues in Africa Led by Peter Tatchell and Outrage!

PUBLIC STATEMENT OF WARNING

In order to prevent Peter Tatchell and Outrage! from causing further damage through their unfounded campaigns and press releases, we issue this public statement of warning.

As Human Rights Defenders from across Africa, we strongly discourage the public from taking part in any LGBTI campaigns or calls to action concerning Africa that are led by Peter Tatchell or Outrage!

Collaboration across continents is both important and valuable. We are willing to work with those who respect our advice and expertise regarding our continent.

However, Outrage! has been acting in contempt and disregard of the wishes and lives of African Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Intersex (LGBTI) Human Rights Defenders. We have made every attempt to address this matter with Outrage!, personally, and they have refused to listen. We now take this matter to the public, requesting you not to take part in any of Peter Tatchell or Outrage!'s campaigns regarding
Africa , as they are not factually-based and are harmful to African activists.

Through the following actions, Outrage! has repeatedly disrespected the lives, damaged the struggle, and endangered the safety of African Human Rights Defenders:

1. Outrage!'s press releases contain information that is not factual. They do not verify information before including it in their press releases. When
they are corrected by local activists, they refuse to print retractions or to make any attempt to stop the damaging effects of their press releases.

2. Outrage! repeatedly quotes people out of context and uses these statements to further their own agenda rather than presenting the truth.

3. Outrage! does not consult the relevant local activists before embarking on campaigns that directly affect us and are destructive to our work. They
disregard collaborative efforts by African LGBTI Human Rights Defenders and international Human Rights organisations, and come up with unilateral strategies that work against the progress being achieved by the rest of the Human Rights actors. We are tired of having to constantly expend energy working to undo irreparable damage that Outrage! has caused.

4. Outrage! exaggerates the violations our governments commit. When they quote African Human Rights Defenders in the very same press releases where they are exaggerating claims against our governments, we are held responsible for their reckless outbursts. As African activists, we are then left to face the wrath of our communities for statements we never made.

5. Outrage! does not listen to, value, or heed the advice of local genuine activists. They mix our words with the opinions of uninformed, naïve, or crook individuals. They take whatever information is available, regardless of the source, and twist it to gain more publicity. Certainly, Outrage! is not acting on our behalf.

Therefore, we urge the public not to participate in any LGBTI campaigns regarding Africa that are led or influenced by Peter Tatchell or Outrage!, as they repeatedly put our lives in danger through their reckless, non-factual, and inflammatory press releases, letters, and calls to action.

As African LGBTI Human Rights Defenders, we are working toward the recognition of our rights by our governments in Africa . We do not appreciate or accept the efforts of Western-based individuals or organisations who try to make our work for liberation into an ego-boosting publicity campaign for themselves. We condemn Peter Tatchell and Outrage! for their irresponsible journalism and a deplorable lack of respect for the very people they claim they are defending.

We will continue to work with our governments on the acknowledgement and protection of our basic human rights as African lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex people. Furthermore, we will proudly defend our right as Africans to praise our governments when they protect and acknowledge us.


OUR MESSAGE

United as African LGBTI Human Rights Defenders, we send out the following messages:

To Peter Tatchell and Outrage!:

Stay out of African LGBTI issues. You have proven that you have no respect for conveying the truth with regards to Africa or consulting African LGBTI leaders before carrying out campaigns that have severe
consequences in our countries. You have betrayed our trust over and over again.

This is neo-colonialism and it has no place in our struggle or in Africa .

To the Press:

Responsible journalism is one of the keys to social transformation and the protection of human rights. Verify information about Africa before publishing it. Consult the leaders of the LGBTI Movement in Africa
about strategy and do not just spread any misinformation you find on the internet.

Abide by the rules of good journalism with regard to Africa , as you would be expected to do with regard to your own countries.

To the Public:

International collaboration can give strength to already vibrant LGBTI campaigns in Africa . Consult from reliable sources that investigate cases before they report, such as Human Rights Watch (HRW), Amnesty International (AI), and the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC). Peter Tatchell and Outrage! are not reliable sources on LGBTI issues in Africa and information from them should not be trusted or used as a basis for action.


PRESENT SITUATION

We fear that Peter Tatchell's sudden call for a campaign to pressure the Nigerian government regarding the proposed same-sex marriage prohibition might backfire and cause the oppressive homophobic bill's
passage.

After being warned that the advice of Nigerian activists is to refrain from putting attention on the dormant bill, Outrage! looked for some individual in Nigeria to support them in the course they had already chosen to take. To serve this purpose, Leo Igwe's comments were quoted in George Broadhead's recent press release and are being taken out of context.
While Leo is a very courageous friend and ally of the movement, Outrage! should have contacted and requested advice on strategy from the LGBTI Human Rights Defenders who led the original campaign against the bill from Nigeria .

Over the past ten months, Human Rights Defenders from the region and elsewhere have exercised a lot of formal and informal pressure on Nigerian law-makers to make sure the bill did not get passed into law.
Until Outrage!'s action was issued, the bill was dead.
By calling on people to begin a campaign at this stage, interest could be awakened in the bill. Outrage! is acting irresponsibly and in direct
contradiction to the advice of leaders of the Nigerian LGBTI movement.


BACKGROUND

Just five months ago, a similar situation was evolving in Uganda . Outrage! had included unverified information in a press release on Uganda and was refusing to listen to the concerns of Ugandan LGBT
Human Rights Defenders. After many conversations about the importance of accuracy, fact-checking, and consultation with genuine African activists, Ugandan Human Rights Defender Juliet Victor Mukasa, finally wrote directly to Peter Tatchell:

"You have included unverified information in your press releases and those allegations against the government are going to come back to us. You will sit safely in London while our activists in Uganda pay the
price for your deeds ... We have many people in the West who support our struggle, but they would not do anything to jeopardize our safety. ... You have shown a blatant disregard for the reputations and safety of
legitimate activists in Uganda ... I know what effect your press releases have on my country. Please put a stop to all your press releases regarding my country. It must stop."

Immediately following the receipt of this message, Outrage! issued yet another press release on Uganda , and helped organise a demonstration against the Ugandan High Commission in London .

These examples from Nigeria and Uganda are just two out of many instances of breaches of trust and disregard for the work, wisdom, and lives of African Human Rights Defenders. We have repeatedly asked
Outrage! to retract their calls to action and to restrain from any further action regarding LGBTI issues in Africa . Outrage! has refused. As we would do in the case of any person or organisation acting out of such blatant disrespect for the truth and for the people they claim to defend, we urge the public not to participate in LGBTI campaigns led by Peter
Tatchell or Outrage! which pertain to our continent, Africa .


Signed:

Dorothy Aken'Ova
INCRESE, 1E, Bosso Road
G. P. O. 3684, Minna
Niger State Nigeria
increse@lycos.com, darlyndotty@yahoo.co.uk
08065488417, 08034500714

Juliet Victor Mukasa
Chairperson of Sexual Minorities Uganda (SMUG)
julie.mukasa@gmail.com
+27 79 194 9561

Fikile Vilakazi
Director of the Coalition of African Lesbians (CAL)
Johannesburg, South Africa

Wendy Landau
Human Rights Researcher, Behind the Mask (BtM)
Johannesburg, South Africa

Kasha N. Jacqueline
Chairperson of Freedom and Roam Uganda (FARUG)
jnkasha@gmail.com
+256 772 463161

David Kato
Integrity Uganda

Samuel Ganafa
Chairperson of Spectrum Uganda

Danilo da Silva
LGBTI Mozambique

Judith Ngunjiri
Minority Women in Action, Kenya

Emmanuel Kamau
Chairperson of ISHTAR Kenya

Peter Njoroge
Gay and Lesbian Coalition of Kenya (GALCK)

Joel Gustave Nana
Human Rights Researcher, Alternatives-Cameroon

Ayesha Imam
Human Rights Defender
Nigeria/Senegal

Sokari Ekine
Human Rights Defender, Black Looks
sokari@blacklooks.org

Carlos Idibouo
Consellor at TAGL
Advisor at AfriCar Project
idibouoc@yahoo.fr
famillegay2006@yahoo.fr
+1 647 261 3214/ +1 416 922 4226

Mac Darling Cobbinah
Centre for Popular Education and Human Rights Ghana

Kanuma Georges
Leader of LGBTI group ARDHO, Burundi

Linda Baumann
The Rainbow Project (TRP)
Namibia

Thuli Madi
Director, Behind the Mask
Johannesburg, South Africa

Oludare Odumuye
Alliance Rights, Nigeria

For more information about the current situation in Nigeria , please contact INCRESE at:
darlyndotty@yahoo.co.uk


As I recall, The Sun newspaper outed Peter Tatchell when he was a Labour Parliamentary Candidate for Bermondsey in the 1983 by-election. He cleverly forgets that he denied being Gay and in fact has since accused Labour MP Bob Mellish of being bisexual and having propositioned him. Mellish is dead so cannot refute or confirm this allegation.

Ever since then, he's been running around desperate to inflict the same intrusive misery upon everyone else by 'outing' others, in spite of the fact that UK society has changed hugely to accept openly gay culture not because of Tatchell but the work of real campaigners.

Now that his efforts are largely all in vain in the UK, he marches off to countries he knows nothing about and lies about the motives and actions of countries already steeped in desperate civil conflict and poverty.

I hope this PRESS RELEASE is the final straw for him, and he learns the vitally important lesson that he should shut his mouth on issues that really don't concern him and that he has no concept of. But I doubt it.

[xmasdale]

Groan!

Stelios, Peter Tatchell last week sent me a reply to these latest allegations about LGBT Africans asking me to publish them on this thread. I did not do so, because I thought it would merely confuse the whole issue at a time there was a chance your vendetta against him might die down.

However, you have now forced my hand by raising this issue yourself. In the interests of a right of reply I now feel obliged to post the following. The right of reply will continue to be applicable so long as you continue your attempts to defame him.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------

African campaign disagreements

OutRage! responds to false, sectarian smears

London – 20 February 2007

On 30 January 2007, a group of African activists issued a news release headed:

“African LGBTI Human Rights Defenders Warn Public Against Participation in Campaigns Concerning LGBTI Issues in Africa Led by Peter Tatchell and Outrage!”

Here is the response of OutRage! and Peter Tatchell.

Kizza Musinguzi, African Affairs spokesperson for OutRage! and a Ugandan gay rights activist, said:

"These are untrue, sectarian allegations. They are made mostly by people who have never had any contact with Peter Tatchell or OutRage! Since we have not run any campaigns concerning their countries, how can they accuse us of treating them badly?

“They have been fed lies about us by more conservative gay activists in Africa and the US who hate OutRage!’s radicalism and are jealous of our effective campaigns.

“Those who signed the anti-OutRage! statement did so on the basis of allegations that are entirely false. Some signatories signed in good faith, but they were hoodwinked by people who are out to destroy OutRage!

"OutRage! has always acted in response to appeals for help from Nigerian and Ugandan LGBTI groups. We supported their struggles. Most African groups recognise this. Only a small minority signed the letter denouncing us. We continue to work with all the Nigerian gay groups and two of the Ugandan gay groups. We enjoy their confidence and support. If we had done anything wrong, they would not still be working with us. Even some of the people who signed the letter criticising us are now working with us again. They realise the allegations against us were unfair.

“Nigerian and Ugandan gay groups are divided, with different groups pursuing different agendas and tactics. It is partly a divide between well-funded groups and volunteer grassroots activists, and between reformists and radicals. OutRage! supports them all, but works most closely with the grassroots radicals. The more reformist groups resent this. They don’t like the fact that we work with the radicals, who they see as rivals. They want exclusive control of the gay rights movement in their country. Many do little or no work with African progressive parties and human rights groups, whereas OutRage! and its African allies advocate cooperation between gay rights groups and left parties, trade unions and civil society movements.

“Some of this dispute is also about money. There is competition for funding. Certain organisations see others as competitors. They want to be seen to be doing all the important work, so they can get the lion’s share of the funding.

“According to the mostly conservative African groups who condemned us, the proposed new Nigerian anti-gay legislation was dead and there was no need to campaign against it. This lulled everyone into a false sense of security. Acting on warnings from our Nigerian activist allies that the legislation was likely to be revived, OutRage! urged a global campaign against the new law. Some of the conservative groups saw us as challenging their power and authority. That is why they denounced us and tricked others into signing their statement, based on lurid untrue allegations. In fact, OutRage! and our Nigerian allies were proven correct. The legislation was revived and the international LGBTI movement was caught napping," said Mr Musinguzi.

His views are echoed by Peter Tatchell:

"I have supported every African liberation movement struggle for nearly 40 years – in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Angola, Mozambique, Guinea Bissau, Eritrea, Darfur and the Western Sahara," said Mr Tatchell.

“For two decades, I have worked in solidarity with African gay groups. Indeed, I initiated the first international campaign to support the newly emergent African LGBTI movements in the early 1980s, fund-raising for their cause. Until now, no African LGBTI groups have complained or criticised my work. All have appreciated the support given to their campaigns.

"Contrary to the allegations made against us, our news releases do not contain untrue information, we do not exaggerate homophobic repression, our campaigns have not caused damage and we have never put anyone's life in danger. These smears are being spread by reformist political opponents in Africa and the US who are trying to discredit OutRage! to advance their own agendas.

“I challenge anyone to show where OutRage! news releases are inaccurate, exaggerated or reckless – or European chauvinist. Such claims are politically-motivated smears.

“Our critics are nearly all paid professional NGO officials. Some are funded by the west. Some are full-time lobbyists who oppose grassroots activism and direct action protests. They say all campaigning should be left to them. Their denunciations look like a bid to maintain their exclusive control over the LGBTI human rights movement in Africa. A number of the signatories resent the fact that OutRage! works with and supports African grassroots groups that they see as rivals.

"A week before these activists denounced us, we halted our Nigerian campaign. We have not campaigned on Uganda for five months. So why did they denounce us?

"This vendetta has nothing to do with gay rights. Certain groups seem more interested in fighting other activists than in fighting homophobia. Their petty jealousies and political sectarianism is undermining the campaign for gay equality in Africa,” said Mr Tatchell.

Ends

[karlos]

This thread has become a game of tennis and i can keep it up just as long as anyone else.
You have read Tatchell's own words which are more pro war that Bush, Blair and Brown put together.
You have read that Tatchell was not welcomed nor was he invited at any of the stop the war or Palestinian rallies he attended.
You have read the words of LGBT Muslims who are against Tatchell.
You have also read the words of LGBT Africans who are also against Tatchell.
So who exactly welcomes Tatchell's interventions?

You also have the evidence that Tachell during the 1983 election actually lied about his own position yet has engaged in a bitter campaign to 'out' others as he himself was 'outed'

Honestly, i have looked at all the evidence and i find that his views and his actions with regards to a wide range of topics and issues are totally self serving and extremely unhelpful to those causes he claims to be helping. The best way for him to help is actually to restrict himself to causes where his intervention is wanted. As a GREEN PARTY candidate i am at a loss to find any green issues he is campaigning for as his statements/press releases relate to overseas or muslims or outing gay christians.

I must state for the record that i find his campaign for underage sex and the decriminalisation of consential underage sex totally abhorent. As i hope you do as well.

Anyway lets call a truce i am sure we have posted enough stuff for people to make up their own minds.

[xmasdale]

Peter Tatchell has just sent me this interim message for the website. He will be writing his own detailed response to this vendetta later.

FRIENDS OF PETER TATCHELL WRITE:

Smear campaign against Peter Tatchell

Wild, unfounded allegations have been made against Peter Tatchell by Karl
Khan / Stelios. These allegations are his spin on Tatchell. They are not
true. They are being made by a person who is a member of George Galloway's Respect Party, which is hostile to Tatchell and Tatchell's party, the Greens.

These attacks by Karl / Stelios look like a sectarian campaign to gain
advantage for Respect by smearing Peter Tatchell and the Green Party.

We would advise people to go to Tatchell's website:

www.petertatchell.net

Please read Tatchell in his own words. Thousands of his articles, speeches
and news releases are archived there. None support the Iraq war or an attack on Iran. None back the neo cons. None are racist or Islamophobic. None support Zionism. These allegations are all fiction. But if you don't believe us, go to Tatchell's website and read for yourself.

You can also read the archive of Tatchell's Guardian articles here:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/

Again, none of these articles support any of the outrageous defamatory
allegations made by Karl / Stelios.

You can also read a biography of Tatchell here, which shows that Tatchell is the exact opposite of Karl / Stelios's misrepresentations:

http://www.petertatchell.net/biography/biography2007.htm

Read all this and judge for yourself. You will see that Karl and certain Respect Party colleagues are stooping to dirty political tricks to gain political advantage.

Best wishes.

Friends of Peter Tatchell