Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Sarcas Personalities
The trouble is that its nigh on impossible to discern whether or not someone has a sincerely held opinion or not. What we try to do here as moderators is to give everyone the benefit of the doubt to encourage freedom of expression rather than constanly draw lines about what it is and isn't acceptable to say.
The most boring and annoying trait as far as I can see is the tendancy on topics to start to attack the poster rather than the point (however dubious) they make. If you think the point is moronic the best thing to do is just ignore it and trust that other readers will see through it too.
If you have a serious problem with a poster then PM the moderators reccomending they be banned. We will then consider the proposition.
Now, ain't that fair, as it goes?
PS. how did you know about the frilly undies?
Anthony Lawson wrote:
Where do we draw the line then? Would it be okay for me to state that Tony Gosling wears frilly bras and knickers and is a closet Satanist?
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: London Bombings
Anthony Lawson wrote:
Sarcasm and Personalities
Anthony as you are an Australian who lives in Hong Kong i am interested to know your views regarding 7/7 which is the topic we are all trying to discuss.
I am pretty sure everyone would like to hear your views. But so far all you have done is use this TOPIC to carry on your personal arguments from other topics.
I suggest for the sake of good order that if you wish to defend Shayler you do so in the allocated topic. If you wish to attack my views on atheism you do so in the correct topic. And this one is clearly labelled London Bombings meaning 7/7 so if you have something to contribute please do so.
If you want to argue with me personally send me a Private Message. I will certainly reply but please dont disrupt this serious topic. I am a Londoner and i want to know more about the events of 7/7 and i want the culprits or their backers to face justice. So i am very keen to engage solely on that subject without your disruptive interjections.
Unless you have something to add to this 7/7 debate i suggest you stay out. Whether people agree or disagree with me i always try to stay on topic in all my posts. As does everyone else generally. But if soeone makes a personal attack i am duty bound to defend myself. _________________
Last edited by karlos on Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Your opinion is worth jack to most of the people on this board.
I'm not aware of any poll that's been done on this subject, so until you have any evidence to back this claim up, you are just flinging around baseless, evidence free assertions once again.
You certainly do not speak for me Stelios.
I am glad that Anthony Lawson has one supporter on this board. But i am yet to read anything other than this post in support of him.
Why did you twist my quote replying to Anthony Lawson and direct it at J7? I really do not understand why people love to misquote people and then hope they have scored some VERY cheap points. You disappoint me Mark Gobell because i had previously considered you to be a serious poster. But from now on i will treat your posts as misquotes like the one obove. All those hundreds of totally meaningless statistics you have posted for example.
Why not post a statistic like 'how many days was it since i joined this site' or 'how many M+Ms there are in a packet'.
But in fact yes why dont you conduct a poll between me and Anthony. If i lose you will never hear from me again Mark that is a promise. I have a job, i have a family and i probably have been spending too much time on this messageboard than i should have. _________________
Last edited by karlos on Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Sarcas Personalities
TonyGosling wrote:
The trouble is that its nigh on impossible to discern whether or not someone has a sincerely held opinion or not. What we try to do here as moderators is to give everyone the benefit of the doubt to encourage freedom of expression rather than constanly draw lines about what it is and isn't acceptable to say.
The most boring and annoying trait as far as I can see is the tendancy on topics to start to attack the poster rather than the point (however dubious) they make. If you think the point is moronic the best thing to do is just ignore it and trust that other readers will see through it too.
If you have a serious problem with a poster then PM the moderators reccomending they be banned. We will then consider the proposition.
Now, ain't that fair, as it goes?
<snip >
The biggest problem I see here are evidence-free assertions parading as facts. Even-handed?
Is this even-handed? Where was the evidence to back-up this claim?
Tony Gosling wrote:
Whilst I understand your need for accuracy in all reporting it seems anyone, myself included, who suggests that Mossad, who are trying to open up a wider Middle East conflict and demonise Muslims, could have been involved in the placing of the 7/7 bombs comes in for strong criticism from the J7 campaign. This is hardly being even-handed.
Tony Gosling wrote:
I also noticed that the movements of Benjamin Netenyahu on 7/7 and the warning his embassy recieved from Scotland Yard ('Netenyahu changed plans due to warning' - Associated Press) which was wired round the world and appeared on the front page of several international English language newspapers on the 8th July 2005 hardly features at all on your site, which I find most puzzling being one of the strongest bits of evidence that there was prior warning the 7/7 bombs were about to explode.
I then posted at least 5 links where this information was included on the website. You ignored this. Even-handed?
Tony Gosling wrote:
The fact is that anyone, particularly someone connected to a victim or survivor, who takes the time and trouble to make a film exposing facts to do with the 7/7 attacks should be congratulated by J7 and given some support rather than criticised or made out to be a disinformation merchant.
You reached this conclusion how exactly? In fact this statement is a lie and you failed to apologise or admit your error. Even-handed?
Tony Gosling wrote:
The wording of your 'Netanyahu warning' article Prole doesn't include the somewhat significant bit about it being before the explosions. It is not the original from the Associated Press wire which was used, as I said, around the world.
Despite the headline of the article that I posted saying that 'Israel was warned ahead of first blast' and included "The Israeli Embassy in London was notified in advance" and "Israeli officials stress the advanced Scotland Yard warning does not in any way indicate Israel was the target in the series of apparent terror attacks". You ignored this. Even-handed?
If you wish to be taken seriously as a moderator and your words to have any meaning or consequence I suggest you practice what you preach to others. Otherwise you are in danger of being viewed as a hypocrite. _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Last edited by Prole on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Sarcas Personalities
Here we unhelpfully go again and I'm not going to rise to Proles bait.
Just to say that there is no absolute arbiter of facts when it comes to the matters we are discussing and nobody has a monopoly on right and wrong however much they might like to think they do.
The only exceptions to that are the bigger truths which emerge - such as the consensus around no plane and beam weapons theories being sent to try us.
Prole wrote:
If you wish to be taken seriously as a moderator and your words to have any meaning or consequence I suggest you paractice what you preach to others. Otherwise you are in danger of being viewed as a hypocrite.
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Sarcas Personalities
TonyGosling wrote:
Here we unhelpfully go again and I'm not going to rise to Proles bait.
Just to say that there is no absolute arbiter of facts when it comes to the matters we are discussing and nobody has a monopoly on right and wrong however much they might like to think they do.
The only exceptions to that are the bigger truths which emerge - such as the consensus around no plane and beam weapons theories being sent to try us.
Prole wrote:
If you wish to be taken seriously as a moderator and your words to have any meaning or consequence I suggest you practice what you preach to others. Otherwise you are in danger of being viewed as a hypocrite.
"There are no arbiters of fact when it come to the matters we are discussing"? Surely Tony there is a difference between a fact-free assertion and an evidence-based fact? A difference between a lie and a truth? Or are we in the realm of unknown knowns and known unknowns?
"Nobody has a monopoly on right or wrong, however much they like to think they do"? True, the point of discourse and discussion should be to move towards greater synthesis and understanding, not to end up polarised and attacked.
Admitting when one is wrong helps though. _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 370 Location: Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Sarcas Personalities
A Farewell Post
Tony Gosling wrote:
What we try to do here as moderators is to give everyone the benefit of the doubt to encourage freedom of expression rather than constanly draw lines about what it is and isn't acceptable to say....
....Now, ain't that fair, as it goes?
No, it's not good enough, if you want to keep the interest of people who believe they have something to contribute, but who are getting fed up with the air of anything goes, including serial liars and abusers and a moderator like John White, who was recently so careless with his words as to call the war in Iraq a ‘damnable escapade’.
Don't bother to reply, I will no longer be contributing to this site, but I wish well to those who still feel that the truth matters, above all else.
Sadly, Tony, I cannot now think of you as being one of that number, but I wish you well, nonetheless. _________________ The truth won't set you free, but identifying the liars could help make the world a better place.
A man who was accused of being one of al-Qaida's leaders in Britain and who is alleged to have sent one of the July 7 suicide bombers to a terrorism training camp in Pakistan is living freely in the home counties and is not facing any charges.
The point Thomas makes in this interview re: holding an Independent Public Inquiry into July 7th under the Inquiries Act 2005 has been taken up by Darshna Shoni of Channel 4 news:
7/7 and the public inquiry dilemma _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
every death creates a counter awakening in those around the person. Every soldier that dies in Iraq, every victim of terrorism, every Iraqi killed in the war. If we continue to let this happen, tomorrow will usher in a generation of the desensitised who never knew what it was like to live in a semi free world. I really hope people support my movie and get a copy from the site. I want to keep producing work that deals with these issues and getting this public inquiry to happen is top of my list. My ignorance is over and I know I have a role to play
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: What do you think of Obadiah Shoher's views on the Middle
What do you think of Obadiah Shoher's views on the Middle East conflict? One can argue, of course, that Shoher is ultra-right, but his followers are far from being a marginal group. Also, he rejects Jewish moralistic reasoning - that's alone is highly unusual for the Israeli right. And he is very influential here in Israel. So what do you think?
uh, here's the site in question: Middle East conflict
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:47 am Post subject:
Does anyone know how to get hold of this Homefront film???
Hey Prole, J7 is the best site on 7/7 by far you have moved mountains, don't take questions and constructive criticism personally.
If you show me to be wrong that's a cause for celebration not cheap point-scoring. I don't feel any need to apologise (why should I) as I'm well aware I'm not always right.
BTW I've just been watching another of Thomas' films - looks v well made. here
And would like to know how to watch the Homefront which I've never seen. Should have coughed up the credit card tenner for the DVD at the time I suppose. Homefont website now down.
This thread has clearly, in retrospect, been diliberately disrupted to poison relations between Thomsa and researchers. Scroll back and make up your own mind if you can be bothered.
Prole wrote:
If you had taken the time and trouble to read what I wrote before going off into a typical Gosling rant which always includes a swipe at J7 in one form or another.
You seem confused whether 7/7 was a Mossad or a Gladio operation or both. Some of us prefer to keep an open mind until the evidence is released.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4177767786367061070 _________________ --
'Suppression of truth, human spirit and the holy chord of justice never works long-term. Something the suppressors never get.' David Southwell
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com http://aanirfan.blogspot.com
Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
Martin Van Creveld: I'll quote Henry Kissinger: "In campaigns like this the antiterror forces lose, because they don't win, and the rebels win by not losing."
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 2568 Location: One breath from Glory
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:03 am Post subject:
Brief critique of Homefront film.
Doesnt deal with 7/7 as a conspiracy but is rather the personal journey of a victims relative and family and there struggle to make some sense (through making a film) out of 7/7 and "terrorism".
A mixture of personal moving touches interspersed with documentary style research, and a little politics.
From a 9/11 perspective one of the interviews (several in the film) with an Al Jazeera journalist who says he spoke with the muslim guys who were the masterminds behind 9/11 who appear not to deny their involvement. This has some bearing on the 9/11 inside job view.
RIP Anthony _________________ JO911B.
"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12
Doesnt deal with 7/7 as a conspiracy but is rather the personal journey of a victims relative and family and there struggle to make some sense (through making a film) out of 7/7 and "terrorism".
A mixture of personal moving touches interspersed with documentary style research, and a little politics.
From a 9/11 perspective one of the interviews (several in the film) with an Al Jazeera journalist who says he spoke with the muslim guys who were the masterminds behind 9/11 who appear not to deny their involvement. This has some bearing on the 9/11 inside job view.
RIP Anthony
Images from a joint screening/presentation by Homefront filmaker Thomas Ikimi and The 4th Bomb Author Daniel Obachike.
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Thomas Ikimi (Diredtor - The Homefront) and Daniel Obachike (Author - The 4th bomb)
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Thomas Ikimi (Film maker) and Daniel Obachike (Author)
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