Please, everyone, do go and see the film. Dave and I saw it yesterday, and were blown away by it. There were so many themes relevant to what we're all talking about. So for that reason alone, whatever, the artistic credibilty of the film, it's a must-see. Plus, anything slated in the mainstream media must be worth checking out!
Annie _________________ All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing - Edmund Burke.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem Americanam appellant - Tacitus Redactus.
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: V
Annie Machon wrote:
Plus, anything slated in the mainstream media must be worth checking out!
As much as I distrust the mainstream media, i feel that's a bit of a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" approach.
How about a compromise, rather than paying Warner Bros (Hello?! Mainstream media anyone?! ), why not hang back for a bit and download it free off the internet later on?
I understand the need for people to realise the totalitarism of today, but seeing films like this will only distance the viewers from the truth (unless they already believe it). Fiction will only make people think, so that's what it WOULD be like if we were in a totalitarian state, it'll never cause a grand awakening in the human psyche. Once again capitalism just cashes in on our insecurities...
Plus reading's much more spiritually nourishing
If you HAVE to go see the film, can i at least suggest that you read the comic... first.
Point taken about Warners Bros. But having been slated in the mainstream media over the years, allow me a little bile about it!!
I still think the 911 crowd should watch the film, but if we can do it by not putting yet more money into the pockets of big business, let's go for it.
Regards
Annie _________________ All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing - Edmund Burke.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem Americanam appellant - Tacitus Redactus.
Yes. There seem to be a lot of recent films containing New World Order themes. Though the content of these is very close to things taking place in reality, I agree that the style serves only to keep the notion of real totalitarianism in the realms of fiction.
I'm eagerly awaiting the new Richard Linklater film 'A Scanner Darkly'. Although made on a fraction of the budget of films like V it will hopefuly portray the imminent police state with a greater degree of realism. The film is produced in the same format as Linklaters earlier masterpeice 'Waking Life' consisting of different animators drawing over real film with real actors. Where Waking Life featured Eathan Hawke, Alex Jones and a great number of physics, philosophy, other professors, 'A Scanner Darkly' features none other than Keanu Reeves, Winowna Ryder, Robert Downey Jr, Woody Harrelson and of course Alex Jones as himself.
A Scanner Darkley is going to be awsome. Linklater is very much awake, if you watch his films you will notice. Slacker his first has loads of info in it, all the Presidents being Masons, 33rd degree Masons, JFK assasination and so on.
There is a danger with fictional films addressing real life issues. They can intentionally or not have an effect that can devalue the original debate. Roland Barthes talks about this in his book Mythologies and Image, Music and Text (the better of the two books). It's also worth checking out Antonio Gramsci and his works on Hegemony. He proposes that we are all in an ideological struggle as apposed to a physical one described by Marx.
On another more film business side of things, if you don't go and see V for Vendetta or A Scanner Darkley in the cinema or on DVD, it is highly likely films like this will never be made again. Certain people are taking risks in the system to get ideas across and they should be supported. Richard Linklater is a good example. He keeps his films low budget to allow greater expressive freedom, but he can only make films if people see them and he gets box office figures.
It's good to question institutions such as Warner Bros and Fox but if a gem comes out of their continual out put of nonsense it would be good to support it.
Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Posts: 11 Location: British Columbia Canada
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:49 am Post subject:
I would recommend that people see this if they are into this shady political subject. However, the film gives a false solution: Terrorism. That said, it is an action film. Anyone who is in tune with the workings of the world knows that this film digs at the Government indirectly, many of the things said are quite timely, to say the least.
Take it in, but don't take it to heart, I'd like to see a mainstream, high budget film tackling the issue with seriousness, but we'll never see Warner Bros. release that.
On the conspiracy subject, however, watching Star Wars: Episode III gave me even more satisfaction. George Lucas had said that he meant it to warn about Government sponsored terrorism.
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1491 Location: North Lancashire
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject:
Bu$hleaguer101 states
Quote:
However, the film gives a false solution: Terrorism
The solution from the film as far as I saw it was terrorism practiced by one person "V" (a superhero in the eyes of the non elite public masses useless eaters) on the handful of individuals at the top of the pyramid responsible for the government sponsored terrorism. It was not directed at the people as state sponsored terrorism is.
The murdering done by V on those responsible and their servants who chose to protect their system of control was brutal (shock and awe warfare as practiced in Iraq by UK and US troops) I totally disagree with any form of violence or killing and as a movement we must maintain our non violent peaceful Gandhi style dissent/protesting stance in our 911 truth campaigning.
As soon as any violence appears in our movement, as I am certain it will when they recognise us as a serious threat to their status quo (i.e they will infiltrate our movement using the money/wealth) we must react as Gandhi did.
If the truth is valued and important in the eyes of the public massses then our tool for terrorising those responsible/behind the state sponsored terrorism of 911 and 7/7, is the exposure of the the truth in the public domain.
The subliminal message in the film is:-
Quote:
Strength through unity
Unity through faith
Our solution should be simple:- non co-operation.
Have faith in the truth and remember the truth conquers all!
I'm working on a project that will ask how do you rise above emotional reactions and fight an enemy with positive energy?
I'm going to see V for Vendetta tonight.
The biggest problems with movies looking at real issues is that they need to conclude with 'movie' solutions. Audiences are into violence big time so the usual shoot the b****** approach is quite standard and justified in the context of a film. However real life is quite different. IMHO
It's refreshing to see so many pertinent themes addressed in a mainstream, well-produced film. The story is, of course, utterly unbelievable in many ways. Not least the portrayal of a near-future fascist state in the UK, which is heavy-handed and overblown. (The reality is far more subtle imo, but equally pervasive and threatening.)
That said, the themes of government operations against the people, mass media as propaganda arm of the state, etc, are all well done and very relevant today. And it is definitely worth watching for those with an interest in deep politics.
I'm not sure I buy the theories voiced earlier about fictional portrayals leading people to believe that such things only occur in fiction. I understand the idea but I am not sure our brains work like that. Personally, I have no problem reading or viewing a work of fiction and seeing real truths in it. Perhaps I am unusual in that, but I suspect most people are the same.
As the syaing goes: "Truth is stranger than fiction." And I think people innately know that all fiction contains some level of truth, and can often be just as true as "non-fiction". Just look at the fictional truths within "1984", for example. There are very few, if any, non-fiction works that rival it in verisimilitude imo.
I think fiction often helps us to work out what is really going on in reality. I expect that many people currently into subjects such as 911 truth (and associated subjects) have been subconsciously informed, and perhaps even "triggered", by things they saw/learnt in TV shows like "The X Files" and "24", as well as films such as "The Matrix", etc.
I am sure that these and other fictional portrayals have switched on millions of people to finding their own truth about the world. And that can only be a good thing imo. _________________ "Nothing can trouble you but your own imagination." ~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
I will (rather snobbishly) say, the original graphic novel is superior. Alan Moore ROCKS!.
Btw, I asked before on another thread (and no-one responded) if anyone had seen the 1971 film Punishment Park - considering how old it is, it's totally remarkable in the themes it covers - Has anyone else seen it? _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject:
Dogsmilk wrote:
I will (rather snobbishly) say, the original graphic novel is superior. Alan Moore ROCKS!.
Btw, I asked before on another thread (and no-one responded) if anyone had seen the 1971 film Punishment Park - considering how old it is, it's totally remarkable in the themes it covers - Has anyone else seen it?
I have it on my list since you recommended it previously DM , but no I haven't actually seen it yet.
I'd also recommend the t*rr*nt network to those poor and huddled masses (like myself) who can't afford more than a very occasional visit to the local inflated prices movie palace. Both 'V' and 'A Scanner Darkly' were available months ago and hence seem old news.
I understand that Alan Moore disassociated himself from the film version of his (graphic) novel on the grounds that it strayed from his original premise of contrasting totalitarianism with anarchy. That being said, it's still a cracking film. My only real gripe with it is it promotes the Hollywood style lone hero motif.
Btw, in ASD, watch out for the fleeting scene of bullhorning Alex Jones being tasered and carted away. Blink too long and you'll miss it.
Damn I also have to draw attention to Robert Downey Jr.'s brilliant portrayal of a motor-mouthed user. In fact there's so many good things to recommend in it I'd better stop before it becomes a full blown review.
I'll instead conclude by saying it's the best visualisation of the complex layers of a PKD novel I've seen yet. _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
I saw V and thought it was a good movie with a good conclusion, Scanner darkly, Shooter, The Good Shepard, Children of men, all good films about Police state, intelligence black ops etc.
Though recently listening to Alan Watt and his talks on Predictive Programming I have a question. Films such as Independence day, The day after tomorrow, and other films depicting mass destruction, according to AW's take are planting their visions of mass destruction in the public psyche which somehow makes the event more acceptable should it happen. There was a lot of talk recently of fox's 24 with it's scenes of 'terrorist' bombings and torture and the bluring of movie / reality in the public mind, making torture more acceptable.
Now I'm not saying that this new wave of movies is part of an agenda to get people ready for a police state, not deliberately so at any rate, but if thats how predictive programing works then how does one make a production dealing with these issues without contributing to the PP agenda?
Here's a link to a AW audio file. I guess I should ask him the same question.
Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: V
Annie wrote:
Please, everyone, do go and see the film. Dave and I saw it yesterday, and were blown away by it. There were so many themes relevant to what we're all talking about. So for that reason alone, whatever, the artistic credibilty of the film, it's a must-see. Plus, anything slated in the mainstream media must be worth checking out!
Annie
I also seriously recommend Brazil in its full uncut/Directors edition, as far as I'm aware its only available region 1 as part of the Criterion Collection boxset, you can honestly see why Terry Gilliam was forced to cut the story in such a way that the true meaning was lost!!
http://www.criterion.com _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
surprised that nobody's mentioned THX1138 in this thread (unless I missed it) - I downloaded the directors cut not long ago. It has an eerily contemporary feel considering it was made nearly 40 years ago....
surprised that nobody's mentioned THX1138 in this thread (unless I missed it) - I downloaded the directors cut not long ago. It has an eerily contemporary feel considering it was made nearly 40 years ago....
Well you can also add Logans Run and They Live _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:05 am Post subject:
Disco_Destroyer wrote:
gruts wrote:
surprised that nobody's mentioned THX1138 in this thread (unless I missed it) - I downloaded the directors cut not long ago. It has an eerily contemporary feel considering it was made nearly 40 years ago....
Well you can also add Logans Run and They Live
They Live! Of course! A minor Carpenter classic (except for the overlong fight scene and somewhat rushed ending) _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject:
As an addendum regarding 'They Live!' it has since been suggested to me by a respected poster on this forum that the long fight scene could be seen as a metaphor for the difficulty of getting some people to 'put on the glasses' and see, which I hadn't considered before.
Naively, I'd thought it was mainly because the star, Roddy Piper had previously been a pro wrestler.
However I rather like that idea, so I withdraw the criticism. _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
The toy rifles make me smile the most and their flash sequencing/animation but it is a film that has any hardened truther cheering at the script/dialogue _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Aaaah...Logan's run...They Live...Brazil...this thread is making me go all tingly.
I'm going to chuck in the 70's version of Invasion of the Body Snatchers...the end still makes me nonsense my pants. Metaphorically. _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD
The movie is a dark, paranoid, political thriller about a reporter's investigation into an obscure and murderous organization, the Parallax Corporation. It includes conspiracy theories, echoes of JFK, and political assassinations.
Below is the famous "Montage Sequence" in which the lead character undergoes an interesting psychological test to see whether he possesses the necessary sociopathological qualities to become an assassin:
Gattaka, A Handmaids Tale and The Island are also woth a look
The Island is kind of a modern reworking of Logans Run, oh and Will Smiths Enemy Of The State was quite entertaining if a little Holywood Cheesy _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Saw A Scanner Darkly last night after reading of it earlier up the thread.
It was reasonably diverting (ie mediocre). Wouldn't watch it again. Didn't really go anywhere or offer anything new/interesting/enlightening/uplifting.
A few high points: the scramble suits, the idea of someone spying on themselves and the window into the author's bizarre mind.
That Philip K Dick was certainly one messed up, intelligent, paranoid, prescient dude... _________________ "Nothing can trouble you but your own imagination." ~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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), why not hang back for a bit and download it free off the internet later on?
