Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: ???'Loose Change final cut'???
When are we going to get this and shown in cinemas as promised? And while I'm here, I've got this flyer pinned on my notice board for a film jointly made by Annie Machon and David Shayler 'Demolishing the Official 9/11 story' anyone know what happened to this work?
When was this flyer made?? Some of the Bristol guys did make a very good film deconstructing the BBC's "Conspiracy Files" hit piece on 911. I did the original voice over for it, then Shayler replaced me. Was it that film? Or something else that fell down the cracks following our separation last year.
Regards
Annie _________________ All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing - Edmund Burke.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem Americanam appellant - Tacitus Redactus.
I contacted the UK distributors a few weeks ago and they said that a release date hasn't been confirmed, but is likely to be September 2008! _________________ www.rinf.com
When was this flyer made?? Some of the Bristol guys did make a very good film deconstructing the BBC's "Conspiracy Files" hit piece on 911. I did the original voice over for it, then Shayler replaced me. Was it that film? Or something else that fell down the cracks following our separation last year.
Regards
Annie
Hi Annie,
I think the film was being premiered in Norfolk September last year,I don't have the flyer to hand at the moment, it was that picture of yous and David Shayler from the book cover ' Lies Spies etc.' I did wonder whether lawyers were arguing over who owned the intellectual rights.
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: I saw it In New York
Hi guys. I saw the film in New York at the US premiere. from talking to Dylan Avery I wouldnt hold your breath for a cinema release i think that the route that is being taken is a pay per view download...but of coarse it could all of changed by now
Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 1025 Location: SW London
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject:
I wouldn't sit around waiting for this to be our answer. They have taken far too long, not dealt properly with distribution and from what I've heard still speculate far too much. Should have been ready months ago, distributed outside the US and UK to get attention and then released on the back of that. _________________ "We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.” Martin Luther King
I would rather it was delayed if the result of this delay is that the film is a good as we all know it has the potential to be. My understanding is it will be receive private screenings next month.
I'm intensely frustrated by one of the things I've heard about LC: Final Cut, that being that they still focus a good deal of attention on NPT at the Pentagon. I mean, to each their own and all, but damn it. _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:36 am Post subject:
Good, so they should.
NPT anywhere other than the Pentagon is the problem, there NPT makes perfect sense.
You have your kniockers in a twist TMC
TmcMistress wrote:
I'm intensely frustrated by one of the things I've heard about LC: Final Cut, that being that they still focus a good deal of attention on NPT at the Pentagon. I mean, to each their own and all, but damn it.
Good, so they should.
NPT anywhere other than the Pentagon is the problem, there NPT makes perfect sense.
You have your kniockers in a twist TMC
I see the Pentagon as being part of a psy-op against the 'Truth' movement, such as it is, although whether it was planned like that from the beginning or not, I have no idea. Don't release the videos, let the NPT story build and cause another rift in what slim cohesiveness exists in any part of the movement. The evidence as presented in videos such as Loose Change is faulty at best, which is why I have a problem with its continued inclusion.
The majority of the public is never, ever, ever going to buy NPT at the Pentagon. Not that I'm saying that's the primary reason to not discuss it, but I strongly believe that trying to convince the public of NPT ANYWHERE is poison to all of this.
That said... does anyone know if Charlie Sheen ended up doing the narration for the Final Cut? I was wondering if maybe the people who run his tv show hadn't sat on him and said he needed to quit with this "crazy 9/11 stuff" if he wanted to keep his job. _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject:
TmcMistress wrote:
I see the Pentagon as being part of a psy-op against the 'Truth' movement, such as it is, although whether it was planned like that from the beginning or not, I have no idea. Don't release the videos, let the NPT story build and cause another rift in what slim cohesiveness exists in any part of the movement. The evidence as presented in videos such as Loose Change is faulty at best, which is why I have a problem with its continued inclusion.
There is no simple answer, as there was in all probability more than one event.
Firstly there was the synchronised big jet flyover which the CIT team have pretty much nailed down with credible witnesses.
Secondly, the FBI held black box supposedly 'recovered' from the crash site conclusively shows after the decoding done by the team at PfT that the plane it came from did not crash at the Pentagon.
And thirdly, the so-called flight path damage had to have been rigged to occur somehow.
That the released video frames show a white smoke trail, supposedly from a lamp-post damaged airliner engine, but which is also the signature of a missile's rocket exhaust only adds to the mystery of what happened exactly.
TmcMistress wrote:
The majority of the public is never, ever, ever going to buy NPT at the Pentagon. Not that I'm saying that's the primary reason to not discuss it, but I strongly believe that trying to convince the public of NPT ANYWHERE is poison to all of this.
I disagree - providing a convincing narrative which ties together all the elements can be devised. The topography of the Pentagon and its surrounding area is more flyover friendly than Haupt's lame claim that the same happened in Manhattan.
But as PfT's wisely held stance is that they don't have to construct that narrative, they only have to prove that the evidence provided by the USG is false.
At this point all that's needed are some members of Congress and the Senate that aren't afraid to take a flight anywhere to pick it up and run with it
TmcMistress wrote:
That said... does anyone know if Charlie Sheen ended up doing the narration for the Final Cut? I was wondering if maybe the people who run his tv show hadn't sat on him and said he needed to quit with this "crazy 9/11 stuff" if he wanted to keep his job.
Sheen and Cuban's names don't seem to be associated any longer, and several film festivals and the expected sixth anniversary release have come and gone with no sign of a major theatrical release so far, apart from a pre-release 'not the final cut' version of Final Cut that was shown in Norway a few weeks ago. _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 410 Location: Sheffield
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject:
Loose Change Final Cut Release Date Announced
Internet phenomenon to arrive November 11th, features all-new material and interviews
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2007/221007_loose_change.h tm _________________ "The people will believe what the media tells them they believe." George Orwell
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 486 Location: Manchester
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject:
Cheers for the updates. Shame about Sheen and the cinema distribution but I guess the argument against it being culled on the editing is valid enough. Guess its down to grassroots distribution again and lobbying art house cinemas to screen it. I hope its good. Whats the feedback from Norway like? _________________ The Peoples United Collective TPUC.ORG
We will be announcing details of the UK theatrical release shortly. The price for UK residents will be UK£4.00 including VAT....and €6.00 including VAT for European residents.
Residents from outside these areas will pay just $7.00 because they don't have to pay VAT.
We are sorry we have had to remain so quiet.....for so long....but as many of you know, there have been so many attempts to derail this film that we decided to stay off the radar until we have the goods in our posession.
Once we get the theatrical release info out we need as many people as possible to pack out cinema's....this will ensure the film gets even wider release....
By the way....expect to feel exhausted and exhilarated after sitting through this two hour destruction of the lies put out by the Bush administration...the film lands punch after punch, hitting its target remorselessly in the quest to right the wrongs that commenced with the lie of 9/11....the 9/11 truth movement will prevail.
There is no simple answer, as there was in all probability more than one event.
Firstly there was the synchronised big jet flyover which the CIT team have pretty much nailed down with credible witnesses.
Secondly, the FBI held black box supposedly 'recovered' from the crash site conclusively shows after the decoding done by the team at PfT that the plane it came from did not crash at the Pentagon.
CIT? PfT? Hadn't heard of those. The only analysis I've seen of the Pentagon flight path to date indicates a difficult, but not impossible, curly-q descent. This, I think, throws into question exactly who was piloting the plane, but not that a plane crashed into the building.
Quote:
That the released video frames show a white smoke trail, supposedly from a lamp-post damaged airliner engine, but which is also the signature of a missile's rocket exhaust only adds to the mystery of what happened exactly.
Yeah... but lots of things leave a white smoke trail, among them the above-mentioned damaged engine. I can't accept suspicion just on that. Not to mention that a missle is not consistent with the light pole and generator fence damage.
As far as the Pentagon goes, there is a fair amount of physical evidence above and beyond eyewitnesses that Flight 77 crashed into the building.
(wing damage can still be seen to the left of the collapsed area)
(Not a particularly great website, I'm just borrowing the montage)
(Three bodies are clearly visible in this photograph. While this isn't conclusive proof of plane over missle, I would say the corpse in the reclining position doesn't seem to be wearing clothing that you would typically find on someone in the Pentagon)
*I apologize for the size of this image; if anyone more knowledgeable about img coding knows how to size it down, feel free to come forward...
(More plane debris)
(In this pic, you can see a piece of fuselage just behind the corpse) _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
First of all, blackcat, not talking to you. I'm talking to chek, because unlike you, he's willing to do more than post video links.
Second, that video is complete and utter pap. Six minutes of my life I can't get back, thank you very much. Semantic nonsense. If you've got actual evidence to bring to the table, then bring it. That video ain't it. I especially love the part where the video shows the engines fading out in a computer simulation, as though that's what anyone is claiming actually happened...
But, so long as we're tossing about links, here's one for you:
Tell me this, blackcat, without posting some dumb video; how is the damage at the Pentagon not consistent with a 757 hitting it? _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:53 am Post subject:
TmcMistress wrote:
CIT? PfT? Hadn't heard of those. The only analysis I've seen of the Pentagon flight path to date indicates a difficult, but not impossible, curly-q descent. This, I think, throws into question exactly who was piloting the plane, but not that a plane crashed into the building.
Sorry bout that - I tend to forget that everyone may not know all about everything else that's going on.
CIT = Citizens Investigation Team at http://www.thepentacon.com/
and
PfT = Pilots for Truth at http://pilotsfor911truth.org
Both their presentations 'Pandora's Black Box' and 'The Pentacon' are well worth checking out before drawing any conclusions which have mainly come from the OCT about what might have happened there.
TmcMistress wrote:
Yeah... but lots of things leave a white smoke trail, among them the above-mentioned damaged engine. I can't accept suspicion just on that. Not to mention that a missle is not consistent with the light pole and generator fence damage.
I certainly hope that you are above accepting suspicion on that or anything else, but I introduced the smoke thing to illustrate that 'something' was apparently on the officially plotted flightpath that was apparently not the alleged airliner.
TmcMistress wrote:
As far as the Pentagon goes, there is a fair amount of physical evidence above and beyond eyewitnesses that Flight 77 crashed into the building.
There's certainly the appearance of that, but as PfT continually point out without positive ID (part numbers/serial numbers/mod numbers) of the recovered parts that can't be taken for granted.
TmcMistress wrote:
*I apologize for the size of this image; if anyone more knowledgeable about img coding knows how to size it down, feel free to come forward...
Brilliant free graphic program for resizing, resampling, adding more compression and more. _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
Tell me this, blackcat, without posting some dumb video; how is the damage at the Pentagon not consistent with a 757 hitting it?
After a remark like that I am bound to ask - why are you here? What do you gain by pretending to be one of us and why are you not kicked into the sewer where you belong? You may as well ask what is wrong with the official explanation of 9/11. Shill first class. * you!
Mmm, the lovely taste of group-think. Jesus, you sound just like stelios. "If U don't agree with me, U R a Nazi Racist Zionist Shill! Wake up!"
You're not "bound to ask" why I'm here because of what I said, you're "bound to ask" that because you have a puffed-up sense of self-importance and, for some strange reason, it offends you that I don't agree with you. Gods forbid I think for myself...
blackcat, if you want nothing but nodding heads, go talk to the damn mirror.
Anyway.
chek wrote:
There's certainly the appearance of that, but as PfT continually point out without positive ID (part numbers/serial numbers/mod numbers) of the recovered parts that can't be taken for granted.
No offense, but isn't that the same standard of proof someone like Indubitably is looking for from plane bits around the WTC towers?
Above all this, for me, NPT at the Pentagon would have to also conclude one of two things, and they've both been expressed a few times.
1. The plane never existed at all. This would mean faking passenger lists, bribing "family" members, bribing witnesses (a number of which felt the need to duck), and planting immediately after the explosion a number of plane parts, which just wouldn't be possible with that many witnesses on the scene. Unless, again, they were all bribed.
2. The plane flew over the Pentagon without *any* of the witnesses noticing, landing at an airstrip, where the passengers were either killed en masse or shipped off elsewhere to be killed. My question would be... why bother with all that, when you can just kill them for real and blame it on those pesky foreigners. _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
what witnesses?
Have you looked at any of the evidence?
The whole world knows no plane crashed into the pentagon.
You seem to be some way short of the mark when it comes to rational thoughts.
A plane that does a banked 270 degree turn then without making contact with the ground makes a small hole into the concrete reinforced wall of the pentagon, the finance department.
No jet fuel fire as they claim at the towers,melted steel yet at the pentagon did not even burn telephone directories.
A hole that is too small to have been a passenger jet but just the right size to be a cruise missile.
Exactly the same picture as the missile that hit Milosovic's house.
No cctv ut of the thousands of cameras picked up the plane.
The pentagon is like fort knox, and no camera saw the plane? _________________
Alan Wallace (firefighter with safety crew at Pentagon's heliport) - "We have had a commercial carrier crash into the west side of the Pentagon at the heliport, Washington Boulevard side. The crew is OK. The airplane was a 757 Boeing or a 320 Airbus."
Albert Hemphill (from inside the Naval Annex) - "The Pentagon is about a mile and half distant in the center of the tableau. I was looking directly at it when the aircraft struck. The sight of the 757 diving in at an unrecoverable angle is frozen in my memory, ..."
Terry Morin (watched from 5th wing of BMDO offices at the old Navy Annex) - "The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn't be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities."
Jim Sutherland (from his car) - "a white 737 twin-engine plane with multicolored trim fly 50 feet over I-395 in a straight line, striking the side of the Pentagon."
Steve Anderson (Director of Communications for USA Today) - "A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye.
It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke."
For the purposes of keeping this reply semi-short, I'll leave it at that for now. There are more accounts, however.
Quote:
Have you looked at any of the evidence?
Yes.
Quote:
The whole world knows no plane crashed into the pentagon.
Obviously not... if you were right and that were the case, why would this forum even exist?
Quote:
You seem to be some way short of the mark when it comes to rational thoughts.
Coming from someone who compares people who believe in evolution to Nazis and doesn't believe in the moon landing, I'll take that as a compliment.
Quote:
A plane that does a banked 270 degree turn then without making contact with the ground makes a small hole
Deceptive. The 'small hole' NPTers often wrap themselves around is on the 2nd floor. The brunt of the plane crashed into the first floor of the building where, when you look at unobscured pictures, a MUCH bigger hole is featured.
Quote:
No jet fuel fire as they claim at the towers
Looked like there was plenty of fire to me...
Quote:
melted steel yet at the pentagon did not even burn telephone directories.
Also misleading. It was a single book, not directories. Also, it was a dictionary. Also, stranger things have happened and this is nowhere near sufficient proof for NPT. Wouldn't a missile have been just as likely to destroy the book?
Quote:
A hole that is too small to have been a passenger jet but just the right size to be a cruise missile.
Pray tell, how do you know what sort of hole is "just the right size to be a cruise missle"? Otherwise, already answered above. Now you're just repeating yourself.
Quote:
Exactly the same picture as the missile that hit Milosovic's house.
... really....
Quote:
No cctv ut of the thousands of cameras picked up the plane.
*ahem* Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Also, "thousands" is exaggerating more than a little. Also, many of the cameras that were watching the event were not exactly hi-def Hollywood-worthy film cameras, not exactly made to capture a jet moving that fast all that well. Also, I've already made my argument as to why they aren't releasing any footage.
Quote:
The pentagon is like fort knox, and no camera saw the plane?
Except Ft Knox doesn't have an underground railway station leading up into it. At least not as far as I know. I've been to the Pentagon, but not Ft. Knox. What relevance was that supposed to have, again?
edit: Edited to fix picture link _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
Last edited by TmcMistress on Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total
You're not "bound to ask" why I'm here because of what I said, you're "bound to ask" that because you have a puffed-up sense of self-importance and, for some strange reason, it offends you that I don't agree with you
No - I am bound to ask because only an idiot would believe that a large plane hit the Pentagon. Or someone pretending to believe in 9/11 Truth. It does not offend me that you disagree with me and your belief that you are so important as to matter to me shows who has the puffed-up sense of self-importance, which riddles all your posts. It is a trait all shills display. What offends me is a devious liar being allowed to post on the main forum spreading the official claptrap as having any credibility when you should be condemned to Critic's Corner where you can be ignored. There's another 6 minutes of my life wasted. I mention it because I am so important you ought to know.
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:39 am Post subject:
TmcMistress wrote:
chek wrote:
There's certainly the appearance of that, but as PfT continually point out without positive ID (part numbers/serial numbers/mod numbers) of the recovered parts that can't be taken for granted.
No offense, but isn't that the same standard of proof someone like Indubitably is looking for from plane bits around the WTC towers?
It's something that we're all looking for in relation to the WTC, not just Mr. I., but the difference is that the area around the Pentagon is quite different to the urban setting of the WTC. Also the the construction site props in the exact area struck look less innocent in the light of events.
TmcMistress wrote:
Above all this, for me, NPT at the Pentagon would have to also conclude one of two things, and they've both been expressed a few times.
1. The plane never existed at all. This would mean faking passenger lists, bribing "family" members, bribing witnesses (a number of which felt the need to duck), and planting immediately after the explosion a number of plane parts, which just wouldn't be possible with that many witnesses on the scene. Unless, again, they were all bribed.
In Operation Northwoods (which didn't actually plan to kill anyone apart from the hapless Cubans), all of the above problems and logistics had previously been planned back in the 1960's. How genuine the flight itself (or any of them) was has yet to be established beyond doubt.
TmcMistress wrote:
2. The plane flew over the Pentagon without *any* of the witnesses noticing, landing at an airstrip, where the passengers were either killed en masse or shipped off elsewhere to be killed. My question would be... why bother with all that, when you can just kill them for real and blame it on those pesky foreigners.
I'd urge you to check out the CIT Pentacon film and the CIT site, where they have visited the locations to see what actual witnesses could see from their claimed locations, and in particular their interviews, particularly with the two Pentagon PD officers and their statements (complete with diagrams) with regard to what they saw relative to the Citgo gas station.
On further investigation, the majority of witnesses saw the illusion of an impact, but not the impact itself. Interestingly, the flightpath direction reconstructed from the recovered Flight Data Recorder matches well with the Officers (separate) testimonies and would appear to be a curtailed version of it. Again, Pandoras Black Box goes into minute detail on this.
Whatever the case, that FDR (held in FBI custody since 'recovery' don't forget), could not have come from an aircraft that is claimed to have impacted the Pentagon.
There is no doubt about that.
Why that should be and how it got there is another set of questions.
Whatever the case, the flightpath does not match the required flightpath for the impact hole or the lightpole damage, and I'd advise you to judge for yourself the credibility of those witnesses supporting that version of events.
There should be links on both the CIT and PfT sites to net video versions of their work so you don't have to buy the DVD's to see their very convincing cases. _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
It's them or us.
Last edited by chek on Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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