The World!! stop blaming America or Americans all our elite are probably running the show!! We all have to take action _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject:
I don't doubt it at all.
I'm just amazed to find myself trying to defend myself against suggestions I never made in the first place.
You two posters seem to think that expressing concern and sympathy for the people who need to be worried about the overt lurch towards soviet-style fascism in the USA means I consider this an exclusively American problem.
It feels 'small' to be moved to respond to something like this but I've been posting on this site for two years and I take offence to being addressed like I'm some kind of naive effing idiot.....mate.
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:36 am Post subject:
OK John. No problem, all this stuff makes me cranky sometimes.
It is hard to see where relief from the current descending nightmare will come.
If anyone had suggested, in 2000 say, that government agencies in the USA would be characterising their critics as being mentally ill, a physical threat to the state and requiring arrest and incarceration.......that person would be thought a lunatic.....or that Britons could be locked up indefinitely without trial (as has happened to a few unfortunates now in Belmarsh, it seems).....or be arrested, charged and even shot on the basis of next to nothing.
It kind of takes your breath away how far reality has shifted over the past six years.
It is bound to get much worse. We know this as some of the few people who understand that 9/11 and 7/7 were inside jobs.(there may be some on this site who do not see 7/7 in the same way as 9/11 but I am personally convinced that the 4 accused were completely innocent men)
Powers that are comfortable murdering innocent members of the public are demonic and truly evil. These people want an attack on Iran which will inevitably lead to world war. It seems that the situation will have to get much worse before people 'wake up'.
There is quite a large sense of public unease with Iraq and the 'war on terror'. People also understand mostly that an attack on Iran would be a far greater disaster than has already been created in Iraq. The public are a bit like the Jews in the 1930's......living in the hope that if we stay nice and keep our heads down all this nasty business will go away.
Not that it makes it less scary, but it should be pointed out for clarity's sake that the document referenced in that video is almost 10 years old, if not more; if anything, it does make it more frightening, because it shows that 9/11 wasn't really needed as a catalyst for this sort of thinking by government officials. _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
Is it that much of a surprise that agitators against federal government could be labelled as potential terrorists?
Absolutely. It is a sign of how far we have fallen that people like you even ask the question. Equating dissent with terrorism is what the insane neocons want to do to quell any criticism of their monstrous actions.
Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 515 Location: London, England
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject:
blackcat wrote:
Quote:
Is it that much of a surprise that agitators against federal government could be labelled as potential terrorists?
Absolutely. It is a sign of how far we have fallen that people like you even ask the question. Equating dissent with terrorism is what the insane neocons want to do to quell any criticism of their monstrous actions.
Well to me it is no surprise at all, and has nothing necessarily to do with the agenda of neocons.
Given the mounting paranoia among such groups that the government is trying to kill/drug/imprison/enslave them, the threat of retaliatory violence is undeniably one possible response. Whatever their intentions, the authorities would be incompetent in the extreme not to be concerned about that danger.
Whatever their intentions, the authorities would be incompetent in the extreme not to be concerned about that danger.
what danger? answering a few questions? christ the lenght some people will go to avoid answering questions can only surely mean one thing: something to hide. this therefore should set of alarm bells in critic land you would think.
apparently not. instead critics will give it an helping hand and justify it then wonder where their rights and freedom went on the otherside.
answering simple questions is never an option? only slavery and god knows what else?
your as messed up as the rest of them, i cannot wait untill humanity destroys itself, because those who think like that don't deserve anything.
who knows there might actually be a life form more deserving somewhere out there, i pity the life forms on this planet who have to share a home with total idiotic and insane people like you, who think killing slavery and destruction based on lies is a good thing and you will defend it at every turn, even condeming anybody who stands up for what is right.
Video is broked sorry for jumping to conclusions but I see most of us brits leveling the whole blame at the US, even when there are pointers to suggest that we might actually be running the show :8 _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Is it that much of a surprise that agitators against federal government could be labelled as potential terrorists?
Absolutely. It is a sign of how far we have fallen that people like you even ask the question. Equating dissent with terrorism is what the insane neocons want to do to quell any criticism of their monstrous actions.
Well to me it is no surprise at all, and has nothing necessarily to do with the agenda of neocons.
Given the mounting paranoia among such groups that the government is trying to kill/drug/imprison/enslave them, the threat of retaliatory violence is undeniably one possible response. Whatever their intentions, the authorities would be incompetent in the extreme not to be concerned about that danger.
Get thee back to 1984. Before the internet spilled the beans. _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com
Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 515 Location: London, England
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:27 am Post subject:
marky 54 wrote:
what danger? answering a few questions? christ the lenght some people will go to avoid answering questions can only surely mean one thing: something to hide. this therefore should set of alarm bells in critic land you would think.
apparently not. instead critics will give it an helping hand and justify it then wonder where their rights and freedom went on the otherside.
answering simple questions is never an option? only slavery and god knows what else?
your as messed up as the rest of them, i cannot wait untill humanity destroys itself, because those who think like that don't deserve anything.
who knows there might actually be a life form more deserving somewhere out there, i pity the life forms on this planet who have to share a home with total idiotic and insane people like you, who think killing slavery and destruction based on lies is a good thing and you will defend it at every turn, even condeming anybody who stands up for what is right.
This seems a rather extreme response to me.
I think, that were my job to investigate potential domestic terrorist threats in the US, it would be logical for me to draw up a document very similar to the one mentioned, that outlines the sorts of groups that may be drawn towards more violent methods.
To do so is not to label every dissenter a terrorist.
I know it's a can of worms to go there, but Timothy McVeigh did come from the sort of background we are talking about. And the likes of Ed Brown holing himself up and announcing he is armed and ready to fight arrest is another example.
How the woman in the clip gets from there to the idea that all dissenters will be treated as mental patients is anyone's guess.
How the woman in the clip gets from there to the idea that all dissenters will be treated as mental patients is anyone's guess.
Particularly as there is simply nothing in the DSMIV or ICD10 that sees belief in 'conspiracy theories' or any political stance as constituting a symptom of mental illness let alone a sufficient basis in itself for any diagnosis. The FBI have simply no authority to say who is or isn't mentally ill, just as psychiatrists have no authority to organise criminal investigations. As it is, in this country at least, you simply could not get someone treated simply on the basis they believed in 'unusual' theories. They'd want you to stop wasting their time.
If 'conspiracy theory disorder' crops up in the DSMV, then it will be time to get seriously concerned! _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD
How the woman in the clip gets from there to the idea that all dissenters will be treated as mental patients is anyone's guess.
Could it just possibly be the introduction of new "anti-terrorism" legislation which is so all embracing that the authorities can, and do, accuse anyone they like of being a terrorist? Have you been asleep for the last few years? Try this link, posted today, to get an idea of what has been happening while you were dreaming. http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=12640&highlight=
How the woman in the clip gets from there to the idea that all dissenters will be treated as mental patients is anyone's guess.
Particularly as there is simply nothing in the DSMIV or ICD10 that sees belief in 'conspiracy theories' or any political stance as constituting a symptom of mental illness let alone a sufficient basis in itself for any diagnosis. The FBI have simply no authority to say who is or isn't mentally ill, just as psychiatrists have no authority to organise criminal investigations. As it is, in this country at least, you simply could not get someone treated simply on the basis they believed in 'unusual' theories. They'd want you to stop wasting their time.
If 'conspiracy theory disorder' crops up in the DSMV, then it will be time to get seriously concerned!
It's long past time to get seriously concerned. _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 103 Location: In a camper
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject:
Quote:
It's long past time to get seriously concerned.
I agree mate!
IMO there are so many areas that warrent deep concern that a percentage of alert ,intelligent people have gone into severe denial and seem to run around doing a very good impression of mr mannering from dads army
dont panic!!!
Im not suggesting we all quiver in fear at our computers when faced with this dark reality that is unfolding before everyones eyes.But it seems to me the most sane option is to use it to focus ones attention on whatever action is possible from your own unique perspective. _________________ Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.
David Icke
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 1158 Location: South Essex
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject:
Alex_V wrote:
marky 54 wrote:
what danger? answering a few questions? christ the lenght some people will go to avoid answering questions can only surely mean one thing: something to hide. this therefore should set of alarm bells in critic land you would think.
apparently not. instead critics will give it an helping hand and justify it then wonder where their rights and freedom went on the otherside.
answering simple questions is never an option? only slavery and god knows what else?
your as messed up as the rest of them, i cannot wait untill humanity destroys itself, because those who think like that don't deserve anything.
who knows there might actually be a life form more deserving somewhere out there, i pity the life forms on this planet who have to share a home with total idiotic and insane people like you, who think killing slavery and destruction based on lies is a good thing and you will defend it at every turn, even condeming anybody who stands up for what is right.
This seems a rather extreme response to me.
I think, that were my job to investigate potential domestic terrorist threats in the US, it would be logical for me to draw up a document very similar to the one mentioned, that outlines the sorts of groups that may be drawn towards more violent methods.
To do so is not to label every dissenter a terrorist.
I know it's a can of worms to go there, but Timothy McVeigh did come from the sort of background we are talking about. And the likes of Ed Brown holing himself up and announcing he is armed and ready to fight arrest is another example.
How the woman in the clip gets from there to the idea that all dissenters will be treated as mental patients is anyone's guess.
Could I ask why you bother to post on these forums Alex_V?
For what it's worth I suggest slaying the notion of "if you've nothing to hide,there's nothing to fear", on civil liberty removals and all the other actions proposed by our dear "leaders". _________________ http://www.myspace.com/glassasylum2
How the woman in the clip gets from there to the idea that all dissenters will be treated as mental patients is anyone's guess.
Particularly as there is simply nothing in the DSMIV or ICD10 that sees belief in 'conspiracy theories' or any political stance as constituting a symptom of mental illness let alone a sufficient basis in itself for any diagnosis. The FBI have simply no authority to say who is or isn't mentally ill, just as psychiatrists have no authority to organise criminal investigations. As it is, in this country at least, you simply could not get someone treated simply on the basis they believed in 'unusual' theories. They'd want you to stop wasting their time.
If 'conspiracy theory disorder' crops up in the DSMV, then it will be time to get seriously concerned!
I would agree, but considering the drug-addled climate stateside these days, not to mention new mental health disorders being "miraculously discovered" practically every other day, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to start ... say, forcefully suggesting medication for so-called fringe groups.
F'r instance; a few years back, Bush was trying to push through pre-Kindergarten ADHD testing for kids. Big pharma is trying to get us hooked earlier and earlier all the time, and for any number of different reasons. _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
How the woman in the clip gets from there to the idea that all dissenters will be treated as mental patients is anyone's guess.
Particularly as there is simply nothing in the DSMIV or ICD10 that sees belief in 'conspiracy theories' or any political stance as constituting a symptom of mental illness let alone a sufficient basis in itself for any diagnosis. The FBI have simply no authority to say who is or isn't mentally ill, just as psychiatrists have no authority to organise criminal investigations. As it is, in this country at least, you simply could not get someone treated simply on the basis they believed in 'unusual' theories. They'd want you to stop wasting their time.
If 'conspiracy theory disorder' crops up in the DSMV, then it will be time to get seriously concerned!
I would agree, but considering the drug-addled climate stateside these days, not to mention new mental health disorders being "miraculously discovered" practically every other day, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to start ... say, forcefully suggesting medication for so-called fringe groups.
F'r instance; a few years back, Bush was trying to push through pre-Kindergarten ADHD testing for kids. Big pharma is trying to get us hooked earlier and earlier all the time, and for any number of different reasons.
I don't want to be blase about the fate of you yanks, but I think it'd happen on your side of the pond first. After all, you've had 'brat camp' style (generally fiercely religious) youth brainwashing centres parents can pack their kids off to if they're getting low grades, listening to metal or smoking weed since at least the 1980s. Here we're just at the stage of sending a few British kids to them and it sticking on TV on the premise mild child abuse is entertaining. We've also followed behind America in the ADHD game. For some insane reason, we keep trying to follow America in such areas despite the fact America is usually nonsense in comparison. We're now even trying to import drug intervention models, despite the fact everyone knows America has an abysmal track record regarding drug work and is even more backwards in its approach to drugs than we are.
Though I think it's eminently possible to invent 'political diagnoses' (just look at Soviet Russia), the difficulty is truthers simply will not present to services unless they are already 'unwell'. Some truthers will go 'mad' (as a sample of the population it is inevitable) and in such cases it's likely their 'unusual' ideas may be seen as part of a 'delusional framework' if they sound weird to the practitioner involved. This is a problem with any personal beliefs - when people get into the system, a big problem is lots of otherwise 'acceptable' views come under the spotlight. E.g. I once had someone tell me they thought they were psychic (and in quite a vague, non-crazy way) but were afraid to tell their psychiatrist as he would consider it a 'symptom'. They were probably right, yet thinking you're psychic isn't in itself 'mad' and no psychiatrist would diagnose simply because you thought you were.
And if a psych knows about (even without agreeing with) trutherism, it's more likely they won't think it that weird. Unfortunately, their subjective opinions do come into play.
Otherwise, if you are rational, articulate, go to work, function socially etc, it's very difficult to say someone is 'mad' just because they have a certain set of beliefs. In this country, at this time, if you rang up mental health services and tried to refer someone solely on they basis they thought 911 was an inside job I would imagine they'd politely tell you they aren't interested. Unless the person thought they ordered 911 with their mind waves, had barricaded themselves in the bedroom to stop the CIA getting in and heard Osama Bin Ladin in their head telling them what to do.
The distinction is in how beliefs present. Even 'normal' ones. For example, it's 'normal' to be concerned about terrorists, but they guy who storms out of an appointment with a Pakistani doctor, shouting he's an Al Qaeda operative who wants to kill him is thought to be 'unwell'.
Over here, they simply cannot forcefully medicate anyone unless they are a direct risk to self or others. I think it would actually be pretty difficult to get the vast majority of the psychiatric community here to play ball with it being any other way.
I think it would be easier in America with it's slightly more hysterical climate and vast array of often dodgy private 'therapists'. Not to mention America's state psychiatric provision is basically medieval and makes our somewhat flawed provision look fantastic.
I have personally met two psychiatric nurses who are also truthers (one of whom is a devoted fan of David Icke, lizards and all. She actually gave me a copy of his 911 book) and a locum psychiatrist who reckoned there may well be 'something in it'. Indeed, I have discovered I have something of a reputation among some mental health colleagues for being "into conspiracy theories" but none of them think I'm 'unwell' or really give a nonsense. I don't personally know any mental health professional who would happily section someone just because of a belief about 911. So I'm personally not that concerned at this particular moment. Though that may well change. _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD
Good points all. And feel free to be blase about our fate, I generally am. I just want to be able to go "See, I told you so!!" when we're all in chains on the way to the camps... _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
I agree mate!
IMO there are so many areas that warrent deep concern that a percentage of alert ,intelligent people have gone into severe denial and seem to run around doing a very good impression of mr mannering from dads army
dont panic!!!
That was Clive Dunn's catchphrase... _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 103 Location: In a camper
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject:
cheers guys
my knowledge of late 60s tv shows is patchy at best
but I hope you got my poorly delivered point anyway. _________________ Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.
David Icke
Good points all. And feel free to be blase about our fate, I generally am. I just want to be able to go "See, I told you so!!" when we're all in chains on the way to the camps...
I'm counting on it.
Your hurried last post saying that before they drag you away means I've got just enough time to run to the hills before it's our turn. _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD
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sorry for jumping to conclusions but I see most of us brits leveling the whole blame at the US, even when there are pointers to suggest that we might actually be running the show :8
