Responding to standard "conspiracy nuts" claims

[TonyGosling]

How should we respond to these standard attempts to dismiss criminal conspiracies and to create a climate where neither police nor journalists investigate them?

Ian neal posted this on this thread

[ian neal]

As I suggest when challenging UK officialdom's version of the truth I believe it is essential to show (preferrably with examples the audience will be familiar with or which they can quickly be reminded of)

1) Where the UK state has been complicit in the execution of terror acts either through false flag terrorism (MIHOP) or covertly supporting the terrorists (LIHOP)

2) Where the UK state, police, intelligence and judicial authorities have been shown to be complicit of covering up these crimes, lying, planting evidence and framing innocents

3) Media complicity in these lies and cover-ups

Killer examples
Killer quotes
Supporting evidence

all gratefully recd

[spiv]

[PercyPenguin]

[SHERITON HOTEL]

Yes, the Birmingham six and Guildford four were once considered screwball conspiracy theories. The mantra that goes... 'how many would have been involved in this conspiracy FGS?' do these people think government covert operations NEVER happen?
Something Annie said at the WAC UK Dearlove ambush about the secret services planting stories in the media and whether this was commensurate practice in an alleged democracy and has anyone written to Arronovitch and explained to him the meaning of 'hard evidence' ref. the FBI having no hard evidence to bring a charge against OBL for 9/11?

[Frazzel]

In answer to how they can keep it hidden. If we look back to the iran-contra scandal, that was only uncovered by accident and may have not been uncovered at all, or at least for a very long time. Im sure those who suspected something about the iran contra scandal were also seen as conspiracy theorists. Theres that excellent quote from Dan Inyoue about the shadow govt from this era. People stay quiet because of fear for their lives, livelihood, families, reputation, loss of power etc - fear of all this can be very powerful. Also the way the msm is controlled and or infiltrated etc.
I think to answer D.A, list times in the recent past when there were other events that could have or were deemed conspiracy theories such as;
Iran-contra, 1980's
CIA deliberately allowing the mafia to bring in hard drugs into areas where the black panthers were strong. 1960's - 70's
birmingham 6 guildford 4,
links between loyalist paramilitaries and the RUC, the murder of rosemary Nelson, the murder of the American UN peace team member as featured in Ken Loachs 'hidden Agenda' film,
also about COINTELPRO - this wasnt uncovered until heroic activists broke into the FBI offices and got the documents out that prooved it existed otherwise it could have remained a secret. i bet anyone trying to suggest its existence prior to that would have been labelleda paranoid conspiracy nut!

[ian neal]

IMO this is a very good response to the standard jibes made of conspiracy theorists

http://www.gatecreepers.com/entries/exclusive-debunking-myths-on-consp iracy-theorie/

[xmasdale]

I remember people saying that the idea that Winston Silcott was set up by the police was a ridiculous theory, but in time the conspiracy theorists proved to be correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Silcott

Then there was the McGuire seven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_Four

It's often difficult to work out whether pressure on police to secure convictions resulted in fabricated evidence at their level, or whether there was input from the "security services".

[Frazzel]

thanks for info Ian. Yes i agree we also need to demoloish the idea of 'conspiracy theories' as a derogatory remark when looking at the definition of conspiracy.

[insidejob]

We should be using the ‘how could they keep so many people quiet’ argument against itself when applied to 911.

The official explanation is that incompetence on the part of the FAA, air administration, and the defence forces and security agencies allowed the Al Qaida's plans to work on 9/11. The 911 Commission tended to blame the FAA but later commission members revealed that senior military officers had lied to them and that they considered taking them to court. So, the official explanation would be that they lied to cover up incompetence.

So, given this widespread incompetence, how come no one has come forward as a witness to this incompetence? How come no one has come forward to say this or that senior officer was incompetent and his incompetence led to deaths therefore he should put on trial for criminal negligence?

Groups of military officers, security officials, FBI agents, FAA officials should be coming forward on TV, in newspapers, on radio and in courts and risking their careers to give verifiable and plausible accounts of their experience on the day or before, be able to name times, places and other witnesses, and how they were in a position to save lives but was not given the orders because of some drunk or incompetent manager. Where are they all? I don’t know of anyone.

There have been whistleblowers from the FBI who have identified corruption and obstruction of investigations. People who were threaten with disciplinary action if they followed up leads. These people have been hailed by the 911 truth movement. They directly or indirectly support MIHOP of LIHOP. They tend not to support the coincidence/incompetence theory. And no one who has clearly identified negligence or incompetence rather than obstruction. So, how come? If no one is giving witness evidence of incompetence, why does any expect them to do the same about conspiracy?

So, if the ‘how come no one has come’ forward argument is made against our conspiracy theory, the same argument can be made against the coincidence/incompetence theory.