9/11, 7/7 & the War on Freedom :: View topic - Official Conspiracy theory EVIDENCE?

FAQ

Memberlist

Chat

Usergroups

Calendar

Profile

Official Conspiracy theory EVIDENCE?
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 9, 10, 11 Next

9/11, 7/7 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> Critics' Corner

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

pepik
Banned
Banned

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:49 am Post subject:

I agree. You are so fake Marky, its ridiculous. There is nothing "absolute" about serial numbers that isn't absolute absolute about DNA or personal effects. _________________ "could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:11 am Post subject:

pepik wrote:

I agree. You are so fake Marky, its ridiculous. There is nothing "absolute" about serial numbers that isn't absolute absolute about DNA or personal effects.

really? so why so many people being very suspicous?

the fact is the key to proving wrong almost all conspiracys is proving serial numbers match with the stated planes, which you must agree they have and can provide, afterall the offical story is true is'nt it?.

its easy and could be done tomorrow.

the fact they don't and block any attempt for confirmation only drive the suspicions on and on with more joining the queue all the time.

why not just level with the people and provide the data that proves the offical story true without any doubt what so ever? it dos'nt make sense to hold back proof even you know they have, then complain people are asking questions on the other hand. whos to blame? who can disprove a conspiracy at the drop of a hat and send the 'troofers' home?

why wont they?

it dos'nt make sense.

nothing to hide nothing to fear. why play games with people who just want confirmation and campagin for a new investigastion due to the lack of it?

why not just prove them wrong, once and for all? rather than avoiding it and then complaining because someone asked a question or asked for confirmation to wash away doubts.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:36 am Post subject:

Bushwacker wrote:

But why are serial numbers suddenly so important to you, why would you accept those when you will not accept that DNA matched or the FDR was recovered?

You ask how the DNA can be shown not to be from elsewhere, but exactly the same applies to the parts with serial numbers. You could just as easily ask how it can be shown that they were not from elsewhere, even if you were taken to the warehouse where the FBI told the French newspaper Liberation that parts of the plane were stored and the numbers had been matched. After all, if the plane was not at the Pentagon it was elsewhere, and parts could be stripped off it.

I suggest that whatever evidence is provided, you would simply dismiss it as possibly faked, and ask for something else.

not at all. a large part of the theorys knocking about stem from:

1: footage at the pentagon/tapes confiscated and hidden away from public view.

2: shanksville being just a hole on the surface with tiny scraps of metal.

planes were seen hitting the towers but theres lots of theorys saying different due to the lack in confirmation of serial numbers.

serial numbers will prove the offical line, and link all the evidence together including dna blackbox data etc.

which currently people think were planted or fabricated in some way.

you keep repeating pentagon only, but im talking about all 4 crashsites not just one.

Quote:

But why are serial numbers suddenly so important to you

they are not important to me, they have that information and could release it to prove wrong 85% of claims. something i thought critics would be happy to see released. however critics now seem to be not intrested in proving wrong the 'troofers' once and for all on the vast majority.

nobody can argue otherwise if numbers match with the said flights and come from the parts found at the scene.

why critics would argue against there release is puzzling and dos'nt make sense either. you'd think critics would want to prove people wrong about as much as possible. which could be done easily as its information they already must have.

o'well it seems in this case critics are against proving wrong the 'troofers'. puzzling.

pepik
Banned
Banned

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:44 am Post subject:

Please explain why DNA can be faked or planted but part serial numbers can't. _________________ "could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:06 am Post subject:

pepik wrote:

Please explain why DNA can be faked or planted but part serial numbers can't.

there is nothing at the scene of the pentagon or shankville showing signs of bodys. we are told dna was collected. theres no way to prove it one way or another, its information we are told and have to trust is true. if the offical story is true(which you obviously think 100% is) then they would not need to fake the serial numbers, they could show quite clearly via photographic evidence the parts and serial numbers, and then the data it checks out at.

they could maybe add photos of the day itself to prove the parts they are showing are identical to the day itself.

i'm suprised something like this was'nt already done. but it would link all the evidence together and tie in all pieces of evidence to the stated flights only. which were found at the scene. and will end a lot of theorys.

pepik
Banned
Banned

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:21 am Post subject:

So you are saying a photo of a piece of debris with a serial number on it could not be faked? _________________ "could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:31 am Post subject:

pepik wrote:

So you are saying a photo of a piece of debris with a serial number on it could not be faked?

im pretty certain there are ways and means of doing it in a way which is highly unlikey to be faked without being exposed its faked.

video is proberbly a better method.

im suprised you seem to think they would need to fake it.

pepik
Banned
Banned

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:56 am Post subject:

Ways and means... what ways and means? How would we know they weren't photographing or videotaping planted debris? _________________ "could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject:

pepik wrote:

Ways and means... what ways and means? How would we know they weren't photographing or videotaping planted debris?

planted debris serial numbers would'nt match up with records. which is why theorys are sparked by the none release of such information.

pepik
Banned
Banned

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject:

Why couldn't they plant debris with the correct serial numbers? _________________ "could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject:

pepik wrote:

Why couldn't they plant debris with the correct serial numbers?

because the debris would look different to those photoed on the day if they used different parts to those found in the days after 9/11.

pepik
Banned
Banned

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:

Why would it have to look different? They could make it look like whatever they wanted it to look like. They could even stick on serial numbers to the actual debris in the photos, and then photograph it. You are still saying you cannot imagine how a photo of debris with the correct serial number could be faked? You said there are ways and means to verify it but you haven't mentioned any. _________________ "could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject:

pepik wrote:

Why would it have to look different? They could make it look like whatever they wanted it to look like. They could even stick on serial numbers to the actual debris in the photos, and then photograph it.

You are still saying you cannot imagine how a photo of debris with the correct serial number could be faked? You said there are ways and means to verify it but you haven't mentioned any.

so you are basically saying they could of faked everything and there are no ways or means to prove they did'nt?

pepik
Banned
Banned

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject:

No Marky. A little while back I asked truthers to try to imagine some evidence for the official story which couldn't be casually dismissed as faked/planted/etc. Nobody took me up on it. Now you seem to have accidentally done so by saying that debris with serial numbers would be "key" to proving the case, and that "nobody can argue" with it. But when I asked you to explain why, you started talking vaguely about how you were "pretty certain" that it was "highly unlikely" that it could be faked and that using unspecified "ways and means" they could verify it. What's happened here is that I have slipped into a very comfortable pair of truther shoes. All I have to do is sit back and reject everything you say. As I said before, there is no conceivable evidence which you could not reject. Yet you seem surprised to see how easy it is for me to do what you've been doing all along. _________________ "could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject:

Quote:

As I said before, there is no conceivable evidence which you could not reject. Therefore it is impossible to prove the official story, just as it is impossible to prove virtually anything when the "beyond any doubt" standard is used. Because if its any doubt, then irrational, illogical, unsubstantiated doubts still count.

the more evidence there is for or against, makes that scenerio more likely and therefore more believable. although i have to agree that 'without doubt' is maybe never possible for people trying to distiguish what is what from the available evidence.

theres always something claiming or saying otherwise about any subject.

it goes for both offical and alternative views or information.

pepik
Banned
Banned

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject:

So do you now agree that the serial numbers could be faked and are no more "absolute" proof than DNA?

Quote:

the more evidence there is for or against, makes that scenerio more likely and therefore more believable.

And remind me again what was the evidence for the conspiracy scenario? As I recall, nothing, truth is based on rejecting "official" evidence.
_________________
"could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject:

pepik wrote:

So do you now agree that the serial numbers could be faked and are no more "absolute" proof than DNA?

Quote:

the more evidence there is for or against, makes that scenerio more likely and therefore more believable.

And remind me again what was the evidence for the conspiracy scenario? As I recall, nothing, truth is based on rejecting "official" evidence.

not quite. i agree absolute proof is proberbly never absolute. however i still believe evidence linking serial numbers which can be actually seen(even if faked) and related and checked out against records is stronger than just being told DNA was collected, and verified with a listed whom were shown to be on the flights anyway.

Quote:

And remind me again what was the evidence for the conspiracy scenario? As I recall, nothing, truth is based on rejecting "official" evidence

it depends on the theorys dos'nt it? evidence dos'nt mean it is proof or been proved, it means reason to believe. which people must have. so when i say evidence im just basically saying why people think what they think, the reasons(evidence) people believe something is not being told or being hidden.

and offical evidence has to add up or make sense to be accepted as fact.
its not correct by default just because its the offical story.

pepik
Banned
Banned

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject:

Quote:

however i still believe evidence linking serial numbers which can be actually seen (even if faked) and related and checked out against records is stronger than just being told DNA was collected, and verified with a listed whom were shown to be on the flights anyway.

Actually seen even if faked? What sense does that make?
_________________
"could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject:

pepik wrote:

Quote:

Actually seen even if faked? What sense does that make?

it dos'nt. im just covering all possibilities before we go on another "what if it was fake" round again.

Alex_V
Wrecker
Wrecker

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: Serial numbers...

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/aa_debris_serialcropped.jpg/aa_debris_ serialcropped-full;init:.jpg

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Serial numbers...

Alex_V wrote:

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/aa_debris_serialcropped.jpg/aa_debris_ serialcropped-full;init:.jpg

has it been verified against records? or is it a national security matter therefore we car'nt show you?

its a picture of a number that could be from any craft, but its a start!

Alex_V
Wrecker
Wrecker

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Serial numbers...

marky 54 wrote:

has it been verified against records? or is it a national security matter therefore we car'nt show you?

its a picture of a number that could be from any craft, but its a start!

I feel like a fraud engaging in these little games. After all there was DNA evidence from the passengers, and plenty of wreckage that establishes that the plane was 'at worst' an identical copy of flight 77. Not to mention the FDR. The many witnesses to both the crash scene and the aftermath.

The idea that anything other than flight 77 hit the Pentagon remains, to my mind, utter nonsense supported by no evidence whatsoever.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Serial numbers...

Alex_V wrote:

marky 54 wrote:

has it been verified against records? or is it a national security matter therefore we car'nt show you?

its a picture of a number that could be from any craft, but its a start!

you did'nt answer the question. in fact your response sounds more like an excuse.

maybe you forgot about this?

http://physics911.net/georgenelson

which basically proves, if they wanted to end the conspiracy theorys they could do so tomorrow, very easily with very strong proof.

and seeing as though the offical story is supposidly true, something im asking critics to prove or help prove. however the nearest we have got is a number of a piece of metal, that could be from any craft or any scene, and is'nt verified against any records.

if this evidence is'nt there then this article i linked is true. is'nt it.

as i have already explained, we were TOLD dna was collected, which was verified with a list of people whom were known to be on the said flights in the first place, its not hard to add a few names to a list claiming they were identified via DNA. this piece of evidence is based on trust as opposed to proof that:

a) dna was recovered from the scene.

b) dna was collected at all.

serial numbers however verifing the stated flights were the parts found at the scene, would link that dna to the scene. as oppose to coming from elsewhere or just being made up.

im not saying thats what i believe. but the theorys exsist regardless, proving them wrong is easy, yet the evidence just is'nt there to do so.

DNA evidence is always based on trust. trust that the sample was taken from the scene of crime, as oppose to be being taken from elsewhere.

trust that the tests were taken out and conclusions were correct.

i aint saying any foul play happened on 9/11 where dna was concerned, i simply have no idea.

but proving wrong theorys, needs evidence that leaves no possible room for foul play, proving that what we were told was the truth and nothing but the truth.

Alex_V
Wrecker
Wrecker

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Serial numbers...

marky 54 wrote:

you did'nt answer the question. in fact your response sounds more like an excuse.

It's just a dead end at our level though, isn't it? I can't prove that serial numbers were checked, you can't prove that they weren't. And we know it. Show me some serial numbers that would confirm that ANY plane that ever crashed ACTUALLY crashed. I welcome any truther attempt to trace those serial numbers on that aircraft part in the picture of course - good luck.

Your basic point is that absence of certain evidence is evidence of something. But (a) you can't prove absence, (b) absence is not necessarily evidence of anything, and (c) there is lots of evidence, but for some reason it's the wrong sort of evidence for truthers (how convenient for you).

Quote:

maybe you forgot about this?

http://physics911.net/georgenelson

That article is a spurious load of old rubbish with no evidence and no sources - it has no contribution to make to the debate. Find me one piece of evidence in that article that I can reasonably respond to - you can't, it's just a truther rant.

Quote:

which basically proves, if they wanted to end the conspiracy theorys they could do so tomorrow, very easily with undenialable proof.

Undeniable proof exists, that's why I find it incredible that people deny it.

Is there any doubt, for example, that the FDR recovered came from flight 77? There is none whatsoever - it is undeniable proof in itself. You cannot just claim it is a fake - that's just a desperate retort with no basis.

Is there any doubt that the body parts, DNA evidence came from flight 77? There is none whatsoever - it is undeniable proof. You cannot just claim it is all faked with no possible evidence to support that position.

IF serial numbers on visual evidence existed, am I massively out of line to suspect that the truth movement would consider it faked as well?

Is your basic theory on this that, having faked DNA evidence and all FDR data and voice recordings from the plane, as well as disposing of an entire plane and passengers somehow, that the conspirators somehow COULDN'T BE BOTHERED TO FAKE THE PLANE PARTS PROPERLY?

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Serial numbers...

Alex_V wrote:

marky 54 wrote:

you did'nt answer the question. in fact your response sounds more like an excuse.

Quote:

maybe you forgot about this?

http://physics911.net/georgenelson

Quote:

which basically proves, if they wanted to end the conspiracy theorys they could do so tomorrow, very easily with undenialable proof.

alex your going on as though providing serial numbers and records is something difficult to do, its not. it is for you and me because the evidence has not been provided from day one.

DNA Doubt
Reporter: Graham Phillips
Producer: Graham Phillips
Researcher: Paul Grocott/Caroline Penry-Davey

Transcript
Related Info

16 September 2004
Police have come to rely on DNA evidence as one of their most crucial forensic tools in the fight against crime.

But now a scientist is throwing doubt on the reliability of DNA evidence. He believes criminals can steal someone’s DNA and obliterate any trace of the real suspect. What’s more, he says crooks can easily point the DNA finger at someone else.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Transcript

Narration
If there's been crime, DNA is key evidence these days. It can be the difference between murderers being caught or going free. Well we're about to show you how DNA evidence can be faked...and this method would trick police forensics...and it seems the legal system is not doing anything about it.

We've planted fake DNA at a mock murder scene, and invited ex-DNA cop Robyn Napper to investigate it for us.

Graham Phillips, reporter:
Tell me what you'd do if this was a real crime scene.

Robin Napper
You'd literally do a visual search like we are now, trying to work out what's happened in the house, what's happened to the victim and you'd be looking for things such as that - the blood stain clearly on the back of the door there.

Graham Phillips, reporter:
So if you found some DNA in that, which you would, that would be pretty powerful evidence?

Robin Napper
Absolutely, Absolutely. They have to explain how their blood came to be on the door of a murder victim's house.

Narration
Now that blood is real. It belongs to this man our fake murderer. Dr. David Berryman. Let's say he cut his finger while escaping.

Forensic science students take a sample. It'll be DNA tested, and of course should be identified as David's blood. But see what happens.

Graham Phillips, reporter:
this won't hurt a bit right?

Narration
The two pretend suspects are the murderer David and me. Mouth swabs are taken to get samples of our DNA...as the police would do.

Graham Phillips, reporter:
He looks like the criminal type to me.

Narration
In the lab, the killer will be found by simply matching the mouth DNA with the blood DNA from the door. It's a straightforward test done by forensics labs around the world. But this time the lab won't be able to identify David's blood as David's.

Graham Phillips, reporter:
So who's the criminal here; who's the murderer?

Scientist
Based on this profile I'd say you're the criminal.

Graham Phillips, reporter:
So I've been framed successfully.

Scientist
Yeah you've been framed actually.

Graham Phillips, reporter:
So what trickery was used to frame me and to fool the lab into concluding David's blood was mine?

Narration
Well, after David put his blood on the door, he then sprayed the crime scene - including his blood stain - with my DNA.

Graham Phillips, reporter:
So if you - you know if this was real and you were doing an investigation and you found that blood - that would fool you?

Robin Napper
Absolutely, because look at it - it looks like a normal blood stain of someone who's rushing to get out of the premises after they've committed a murder.

Narration
But of course, the question is: how would a murderer get hold of someone else's DNA, to make that spray? Well that's easy...just grab a glass at a pub...there'll be enough saliva on it to extract some DNA. Even a cigarette butt would do.

Narration
Or a single hair has plenty of DNA in it...which is how David actually got hold of mine for that spray.

Dr David Berryman
All I need is a couple of hairs from about there try to get the hair root on it as well.

Cut some sort of sequence of hair removing.

Dr David Berryman
Yeah, that'll do.

Narration
From just a few fragments of DNA in my hair, David makes billions and billions of copies...using that workhorse of genetics: the polymerase chain reaction machine - the PCR. Within hours there's enough DNA to fill a perfume bottle.

There are just so many fragments of my DNA in that spray, their sheer number totally overwhelms any other DNA at the crime scene. Even in David's own blood, my DNA completely swamped out his.

Dr David Berryman
If criminals were to start using this type of contamination now extensively, well you could pretty much kiss DNA profiling as a policing tool goodbye for a period of time.

Narration
David is not a forensic scientist but he is a DNA expert from Murdoch University. And when he made this remarkable discovery he immediately went off to warn the right people.

He saw police, lawyers, and forensic scientists, but no one seemed too concerned.

Graham Pidco was an exception. He's an ex-defence lawyer and now at the University of Western Australia.

Graham Pidco
He did approach law enforcement authorities in Australia and was basically fobbed off and in fairness, he was not only fobbed off by his senior administration and some of the political people responsible, but also by other scientists.

Narration
We went to see a prominent forensic scientist... Dr Tony Raymond. He wasn't troubled by David's DNA trickery, because he thinks most criminals just wouldn't be bothered with it.

Dr Tony Raymond
If we look at volume crime which like a break in or a burglary or a stolen motor vehicle - something of that nature, typically up to 50% of those are committed by people who if you like, are feeding a drug habit. They don't actually care an awful lot - a very high percentage of them don't wear gloves for instance and hide their fingerprints.

Narration
But not all crooks are unsophisticated.

Graham Pidco
Criminals are intelligent people. There are a lot of them that know a little bit about chemistry. You've only got to look at the ability of people to construct their amphetamine laboratories. Similar sort of things involved.

Narration
So would it be easy for a criminal to do what David's done? Well, we haven't told you how to do anything that's not already available on the internet...the technical instructions are all there. You can even find out how to turn your kitchen appliances into the necessary scientific equipment. And the ingredients are freely available.

David used an expensive PCR machine to make billions of copies of my DNA but you don't actually need one.

Narration
So would it be easy for a criminal to do what David's done? Well, all the technical instructions are on the internet these days. You can even find out how to turn your kitchen appliances into the necessary scientific equipment. And the ingredients are freely available.

David used an expensive PCR machine to make billions of copies of my DNA but you don't actually need one.

Graham Phillips, reporter
A PCR is really just a fancy device for heating and cooling samples. You can do exactly the same thing in your kitchen with a couple of saucepans of warm water and a thermometer.

Narration
You just plunge the samples backwards and forwards in pots of different temperature water.

David's DNA trickery can be done at home.

Dr Tony Raymond
Well technically that is possible. But really is not that easy for the uninitiated I have to tell you and if I were to pose the question to somebody like my wife who in fact is not science - an intelligent woman but has no science background, I don't believe she could do it.

Narration
But what about crooks who are scientifically trained?

Dr David Berryman
Just like drugs aren't made by every person who uses drugs - smart people make the drugs and sell them to people who want the drugs. I just imagine the same scenario where Fred Bloggs the Mafia boss gets his gang to make amplicons and walks down the pub and starts selling them to criminals who do burglaries.

Dr Tony Raymond
Well I think the Mafia boss could make money a lot easier than that to be honest. There are easier ways of making big dollars.

Narration
And, the bottom line says Tony, is police don't rely on just DNA, they also build up a lot of other evidence.

Robin Napper
That's absolutely true - DNA is only part of the investigation. However, it's become a crucial - a very important of the investigation.

Dr David Berryman
I've spoken to police about this and although they won't admit it on camera, they do say well once we've got the DNA profile we know who did it, it's just a matter of building a case around them. But if you can start getting little snip-its of circumstantial evidence, then you could convince yourself of their guilt and build a rather strong case around circumstantial evidence.

Narration
There is no evidence anyone's fooled Police forensics in this way yet, but David thinks we have to face up to the possibility, because it's not a matter of if it happens, it's just a matter of when.

http://www.abc.net.au/cgi-bin/common/printfriendly.pl?/catalyst/storie s/s1199805.htm

Alex_V
Wrecker
Wrecker

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Serial numbers...

marky 54 wrote:

alex your going on as though providing serial numbers and records is something difficult to do, its not. it is for you and me because the evidence has not been provided from day one.

But both you and I know that there is no easily-accessible website providing the serial number evidence that you require. Given that fact, where do we go with the debate. I would like to talk about the evidence that we DO have.

Is the existence of the FDR from flight 77 evidence that flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon?

Is the existence of DNA and other evidence of the fatalities from flight 77 evidence that flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon?

Is the existence of multiple witness reports that a large commercial airliner crashed into the Pentagon evidence that flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon?

3 questions...

Alex_V
Wrecker
Wrecker

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject:

I agree that DNA evidence could be faked. But where is your evidence that it was in this case?

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject:

Alex_V wrote:

I agree that DNA evidence could be faked. But where is your evidence that it was in this case?

i don't have any evidence to suggest it was faked, however i don't have any evidence to suggest it was'nt. serial numbers checked against records proving plane parts found at the scene were from the said flights, would go some way to proving the dna was not faked, and was found at the scene.

as we already know who the missing are and which flights they were on. if those flights are linked to each scene and indentified via evidence as the said flights, there is no denying the offical story at all, apart from building collapses.

the offical story is true is'nt it? i don't understand why you'd argue against proving the offical story is correct once and for all to the vast majority who currently doubt the offical story.

marky 54
Mega Poster

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject:

Quote:

the evidence we DO have is not conclusive enough to prove the offical story. there are to many questions raised when looking at the evidence we DO have.

Quote:

Is the existence of the FDR from flight 77 evidence that flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon?

the exsistence is proof that the flight recorder exsists, it dos'nt prove it crash at the scene as oppose to being planted at the scene.

Quote:

Is the existence of DNA and other evidence of the fatalities from flight 77 evidence that flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon?

no.

evidence that flight 77 crashed into the pentagon would be evidence that shows it was flight 77 that was found at the scene. which would then tie in all other evidence, flight recorder, DNA blah blah. currently all the other evidence could of been faked or made up or planted for all anyone knows.

why your obsessed with the pentagon i'll never know. there were four crash sites not one.

Quote:

Is the existence of multiple witness reports that a large commercial airliner crashed into the Pentagon evidence that flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon?

no.

its evidence A plane hit the pentagon. did the witnesses identify it as flight 77 moving at 500mph or there abouts?

Last edited by marky 54 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

Alex_V
Wrecker
Wrecker

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject:

So to sum up, the existing evidence is not proof because it could have been faked. Just as, if serial number evidence existed, that could not be proof either because it could have been faked. In a similar way, there is no proof of existence because it could be faked. What a nonsense. In short, as many have been saying all along on this thread, there is no evidence that could be presented which truthers would accept. Luckily in the real world rational people accept that flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

Display posts from previous:

	9/11, 7/7 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> Critics' Corner	All times are GMT Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 9, 10, 11 Next
Page 5 of 11

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum