Will CERN tear apart fabric of universe to find Higgs Bosun?

[TonyGosling]

The world's first time machine? Tunnel to the past could open door to future within three months, say Russians
6th February 2008

Time travel could be a reality within just three months, Russian mathematicians have claimed.

They believe an experiment nuclear scientists plan to carry out in underground tunnels in Geneva in May could create a rift in the fabric of the universe.

The European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) hopes its "atom-smashing" tests - which aim to recreate the conditions in the first billionth of a second after the "Big Bang'" created everything - will shed invaluable light on the origins of the universe..............(........................)

[paul wright]

Oh Torchwood made real.Primeval on tap.
Thanks scientists for making our best Tv programmes a reality

[sam]

[marky 54]

[mr nice]

Hmm how much can we trust scientists who are going to go ahead with an experiment that they themselves state "may cause a rift in the fabric of the universe"
Still ive always felt that psychotic scientists would eventually kill us all while we are distracted watching the fundamentalist religious nutters thinking they are the real threat........

[sam]

Time Travel is an impossibility.

You could travel backwards and kill everybody who might be even researching the making of a time machine.

You could even travel backwards and kill your own Grandfather at a time before you had been born, rendering your own existence impossible and therefore the murder of your Grandfather.

You could travel backwards and meet yourself, at a time and place when you didn't meet yourself.

Sorry folks, this is science-fiction. Great fun, but no more realistic than Superman or Star Wars.

[chek]

[marky 54]

[TonyGosling]

Time travel in a forward direction is a relatively simple affair.

I could go off say and come back in a few weeks to find my grandchildren in a retirement home.

I'm suprised it's not been explored by scientists because it is so easy.

Maybe there's no money or plunder in it?

Or maybe they have but kept it secret?

Sounds a bit 'other controversies' that, doesn't it?


Earth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Moon

see also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

[sam]

[blackcat]

It sounds like this fabric they're going to tear is the same fabric the Emperor is wearing. Or isn't wearing if you are so inclined...

[marky 54]

[Tamborine man]

Didn't understand a word of your writing Marky, but it was quite an
amusing read, nevertheless!

This one of yours was really funny I thought:
"Would you be able to kill your granddad if you don't exist?"

Hmmm... let me think!!!

Silliness aside, and a bit more serious.

No, time-travel is of course a total impossibility in so far as the concept of
time, as we know it, never existed and never will exist in "reality".

The only thing that in this relationship exist as a total reality, is the
"sequence of events". And nothing else.

"Time" is utterly and totally relative, and is perceived differently from
people to people.
A highly advanced human being f. ex. who are occupied with a creative
or important scientific project, will experience 'time' as flying away. Four
hours can seem to him or her as if only and hours time or less has
passed by!
Whereas for the bored child, the lazy, the loafer, four hours or a day can
seem like a insufferable long time, etc. etc..

The concept of 'time' should therefore never be used in any calculations
or equations where an absolutely true and correct result is required.

And certainly never be used in any silly talk about time-travel - which
of course cannot happen.

That is not to say that 'sequence of events' cannot be put into
time-periods; but just that time-periods has nothing to do with
time-concepts!

"Time" as we know it, is merely a help to immature mankind, and
basically not much more than that!

Cheers

[marky 54]

[sam]

[blackcat]

This is getting too confusing. Perhaps this video helps explain.


Link

[marky 54]

[Tamborine man]

[sam]

[marky 54]

im reluctent to say anything is impossible. the universe is infinity, in which anything is possible. is it within the capabilities of man, i'd say no, judging by posts.

who would dare explore it? when others who think they have it all worked out and know better, think everyone should think like them? its only impossible if you think its impossible, because you'd never try.

its intresting forum posters consider themselves more knowing than russian scientists.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_artic le_id=512733&in_page_id=1770

this is intresting, and are NOT my words. please tell me if these people say its possbile who the **** are you to say its not? im not saying it will happen or has happened only that it is impossible to say it won't or has'nt already, however you think because it has'nt happened to you that means it is impossible and cannot be done. something which i am reluctent to say.


anyway have a read..............

IS TIME TRAVEL POSSIBLE?
by Michio Kaku


In H.G. Wells’ novel, THE TIME MACHINE, our protagonist jumped into a special chair with blinking lights, spun a few dials, and found himself catapulted several hundred thousand years into the future, where England has long disappeared and is now inhabited by two groups of strange creatures, the Morlocks and the Eloi.


That may have made great fiction, but physicists have always scoffed at the idea of time travel, considering it to be the realm of cranks, mystics, and charlatans, and with good reason. However, rather remarkable advances in quantum gravity are reviving the theory; time travel has now become fair game for theoretical physicists writing in the pages of PHYSICAL REVIEW magazine.

One stubborn problem with time travel is that it is riddled with several types of paradoxes. For example, there is the paradox of the man with no parents: What happens when you go back in time and kill your parents before you are born? If your parents died before you were born, then how could you have been born to kill them in the first place?

There is also the paradox of the man with no past. For example, let’s say that a young inventor is trying futilely to build a time machine in his garage. Suddenly, an elderly man appears from nowhere and gives the youth the secret of building a time machine. The young man then becomes enormously rich playing the stock market, race tracks, and sporting events because he knows the future. Then, as an old man, he decides to make his final trip back to the past and give the secret of time travel to his youthful self. Where did the idea of the time machine come from?

There is also the paradox of the man who is his own mother. (My apologies to science fiction writer Robert Heinlein.) “Jane” is left at an orphanage as a foundling. When “Jane” is a teenager, she falls in love with a drifter, who abandons her but leaves her pregnant. Then disaster strikes. She almost dies giving birth to a baby girl, who is then mysteriously kidnapped. The doctors find that Jane is bleeding badly, but, oddly enough, has both sex organs. So, to save her life, the doctors convert “Jane” to “Jim.”

“Jim” subsequently becomes a roaring drunk, until he meets a friendly bartender (actually a time traveler in disguise) who wisks “Jim” way back into the past. “Jim” meets a beautiful teenage girl, then accidentally gets her pregnant with a baby girl. Out of guilt, he kidnaps the baby girl and drops her off at the orphanage. Later, “Jim” joins the time travelers corps, leads a distinguished life, and has one last dream: to disguise himself as a bartender to meet a certain drunk named “Jim” in the past. So, who is “Jane’s” mother, father, brother, sister, grandfather, grandmother, and grandchild?



Not surprisingly, time travel has always been considered impossible. After all, Newton believed that time was like an arrow; once fired, it soared in a straight, undeviating line. One second on the earth was one second on Mars. Clocks scattered throughout the universe beat at the same rate.




Einstein gave us a much more radical picture. According to Einstein, time was more like a river, which meandered around stars and galaxies, speeding up and slowing down as it passed around massive bodies. One second on the earth was NOT one second on Mars. Clocks scattered throughout the universe beat to their own drummer.

However, before Einstein died, he was faced with an embarrassing problem. Einstein’s neighbor at Princeton, Kurt Gödel, perhaps the greatest mathematical logician of the past 500 years, found a new solution to Einstein’s own equations which allowed for time travel!

The “river of time” now had whirlpools in which time could wrap itself into a circle. Gödel’s solution was quite ingenious: It postulated a universe filled with time that flowed like a rotating fluid. Anyone walking along the direction of rotation would find oneself back at the starting point, but backwards in time!

In his memoirs, Einstein wrote that he was disturbed that his equations contained solutions that allowed for time travel. But he finally concluded that the universe does not rotate, it expands (as in the Big Bang theory) and hence Gödel’s solution could be thrown out for “physical reasons.” (Apparently, if the Big Bang was rotating, then time travel would be possible throughout the universe!)


Then in 1963, Roy Kerr, a New Zealand mathematician, found a solution of Einstein’s equations for a rotating black hole, which had bizarre properties. The black hole would not collapse to a point (as previously thought) but into a spinning ring (of neutrons). The ring would be circulating so rapidly that centrifugal force would keep the ring from collapsing under gravity.

The ring, in turn, acts like Alice’s Looking Glass. Anyone walking through the ring would not die, but could pass through the ring into an alternate universe. Since then, hundreds of other “wormhole” solutions have been found to Einstein’s equations. These wormholes connect not only two regions of space (hence the name) but also two regions of time as well. In principle, they can be used as time machines.



Recently, attempts to add the quantum theory to gravity (and hence create a “theory of everything”) have given us some insight into the paradox problem.

In the quantum theory, we can have multiple states of any object. For example, an electron can exist simultaneously in different orbits (a fact which is responsible for giving us the laws of chemistry). Similarly, Schrödinger’s famous cat can exist simultaneously in two possible states: dead and alive. So by going back in time and altering the past, we merely create a parallel universe. So we are changing someone ELSE’s past by saving, for example, Abraham Lincoln from being assassinated at the Ford Theater, but our Lincoln is still dead. In this way, the river of time forks into two separate rivers.

But does this mean that we will be able to jump into H.G. Wells’ machine, spin a dial, and soar several hundred thousand years into a future of some England?

No, or at least, not right now. There are a number of difficult hurdles to overcome. First, the main problem is one of energy. In the same way that a car needs gasoline, a time machine needs to have fabulous amounts of energy. One either has to harness the power of a star, or to find something called “exotic” matter (which falls up, rather than down) or find a source of negative energy. (Physicists once thought that negative energy was impossible. But tiny amounts of negative energy have been experimentally verified for something called the Casimir effect, i.e. the energy created by two parallel plates.) All of these are exceedingly difficult to obtain in large quantities, at least for several more centuries!

Then there is the problem of stability. Kerr’s rotating black hole, for example, may be unstable if one falls through it. Similarly, quantum effects may build up and destroy the wormhole before you enter it. Unfortunately, our mathematics is not powerful enough to answer the question of stability because you need a “theory of everything” which combines both quantum forces and gravity. At present, superstring theory is the leading candidate for such a theory. (Actually, it is the ONLY candidate; it really has no rivals at all.) But superstring theory, which happens to be my specialty, is still too difficult to solve completely. The theory is well-defined, but no one on earth is smart enough to solve it.



Interestingly enough, Stephen Hawking once opposed the idea of time travel. He even claimed he had “empirical” evidence against it. If time travel existed, he said, then we would have been visited by tourists from the future. Yet we see no tourists from the future. Ergo: time travel is not possible.

Because of the enormous amount of work done by theoretical physicists within the last five years or so, Hawking has since changed his mind, and now believes that time travel is possible (although not necessarily practical). Furthermore, perhaps we are simply not very interesting to these tourists from the future. Anyone who can harness the power of a star would consider us to be very primitive. Imagine your friends coming across an ant hill. Would they bend down to the ants and give them trinkets, books, medicine, and power? Or would some of your friends have the strange urge to step on a few of them?

In conclusion, don’t turn someone away who knocks at your door one day and claims to be your future great-great-great-granddaughter. She may be right.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/mysteries/html/kaku1-1.html

[TonyGosling]

Going back in time has to be impossible for us mere mortals. Has there been any exploration of forward time travel?


Earth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Moon

[marky 54]

Einstein proved we can travel forward by moving near light speed. Backward requires a wormhole, cosmic string and a lot of luck
By J. RICHARD GOTT III

We can travel through the three dimensions of space pretty much at will — moving forward or back, left or right, up or down — without even thinking about it. When it comes to the fourth dimension, though, we appear to be stuck. Time flows on in one direction only, and we flow with it like corks bobbing helplessly in a river. So the idea of traveling through time, as opposed to with time, is immensely seductive. Who wouldn't want to know what technology will look like in the year 3000, or witness the assassination of Julius Caesar?

Not only does such a thing seem extremely difficult, but it could also be a little risky. What if you prevented Caesar's assassination and changed history? What if you accidentally killed someone who happened to be your own ancestor? Then you wouldn't have been born, and couldn't have killed your ancestor, so you could be born after all to go back and ... well, you get the idea.

We physicists are mindful of all these difficulties, of course. But we can't resist exploring the notion of time travel — not necessarily for practical reasons, but to understand the limits of our theories.

Do the laws of physics permit time travel, even in principle? They may in the subatomic world. A positron (the antiparticle associated with the electron) can be considered to be an electron going backward in time. Thus, if we create an electron-positron pair and the positron later annihilates in a collision with another, different electron, we could view this as a single electron executing a zigzag, N-shaped path through time: forward in time as an electron, then backward in time as a positron, then forward in time again as an electron.

The probability of a macroscopic object — like a human — doing this trick is infinitesimal. But thanks to Albert Einstein we know that time travel of a different sort does happen in the macroscopic world. As he showed back in 1905 with his special theory of relativity, time slows down for objects moving close to the speed of light, at least from the viewpoint of a stationary observer. You want to visit the earth 1,000 years from now? Just travel to a star 500 light-years away and return, going both ways at 99.995% the speed of light. When you return, the earth will be 1,000 years older, but you'll have aged only 10 years. I already know a time traveler. My friend, astronaut Story Musgrave, who helped repair the Hubble Space Telescope, spent 53.4 days in orbit. He is thus more than a millisecond younger than he would have been if he had stayed home. The effect is small, because he traveled very slowly relative to the speed of light, but it's real.

With more money, we could do better in the next century — but only a little. If we sent an astronaut to the planet Mercury and she lived there for 30 years before returning, she would be about 22 seconds younger than if she had stayed on Earth. Clocks on Mercury tick more slowly than those on Earth because Mercury circles the sun at a faster speed (and also because Mercury is deeper in the sun's gravitational field; gravity affects clocks much as velocity does). Astronauts traveling away from Earth to a distance of 0.1 light years and returning at 1% the speed of light would arrive back 8.8 hours younger than if they hadn't gone.

The downside of traveling into the future this way is that you might be stuck there. Is there any way of going backward in time? Once again, Einstein may have provided the answer. His 1915 theory of general relativity showed that space and time are curved, and that the curvature can be large in the neighborhood of very massive objects. If an object is dense enough, the curvature can become nearly infinite, perhaps opening a tunnel that connects distant regions of space-time as though they were next door. Physicists call this tunnel a wormhole, in an analogy to the shortcut a worm eats from one side of a curved apple to the other.

In 1988, Kip Thorne, a physicist at Caltech, and several colleagues suggested that you could use such a wormhole to travel into the past. Here's how you do it: move one mouth of the wormhole through space at nearly the speed of light while leaving the other one fixed. Then jump in through the moving end. Like a moving astronaut, this end ages less, so it connects back to an earlier time on the fixed end. When you pop out through the fixed end an instant later, you'll find that you've emerged in your own past.

MORE>>




http://www.time.com/time/reports/v21/science/time.html

i only ever hear, difficulties, and problems. i never hear impossible. it seems scientist think it is possible. forward travel seems the most likely or the easiest of the two to achieve.

however some would have you believe the likes of hawking and einstein and other well known scientist etc, are silly for even thinking it is possible.

i don't think it will be something that happened in our lifetime if it is cracked, maybe not for centurys.

How to Build a Time Machine
It wouldn't be easy, but it might be possible

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0004226A-F77D-1D4A-90FB809E C5880000

[scubadiver]

[Tamborine man]

[chek]

[Tamborine man]

[chek]

[TonyGosling]

thanks Marky most instructive

[Tamborine man]

[sam]