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ianrcrane
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 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: Peak Oil & Global Warming - Radio Debate |
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Peak Oil & Global Warming - The Big Debate
| Quote: | This Friday on the show, I will be airing a debate that took place yesterday between Rob Hopkins from Transition Towns and Ian Crane a researcher from Totnes who spent 20 years in the oil business. We were also joined by scientist and global warming expert Peter Taylor.
Transition Towns regard Rob Hopkins as their greatest asset, yet as you will hear in the debate, he may yet turn out to be their greatest liability.
His seeming inability to answer various challenges made by Mr Crane, refusal to examine the evidence in front of him and lack of actual evidence himself, left him wide open to large amounts of criticism, and whilst Ian may have put a few nails in his coffin, Peter Taylor certainly nailed it shut!
Peter provided some of the best evidence I have seen to date, to suggest that global warming is in fact global COOLING and his own background and evidence suggest he hasn’t been wrong yet in many years of research.
Ian meanwhile, provided strong evidence that we are nowhere NEAR peak oil as yet, and that there are at least 3 TRILLION BARRELS available in four States of the USA alone.
It does suit the oil companies to have a high-price on fuel that will stay high in the future, so it’s little wonder they are not denying peak oil in the press! There is allegedly much for their shareholders and senior management to gain financially from these rumours doing the rounds!
Listen in Friday and make your own minds up
Ross |
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Last edited by ianrcrane on Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Is there a way of "listening again" at some site? In other words will it be posted on the net?
_________________
"The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell. |
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ianrcrane
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Peak Oil debate |
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Blackcat asked:
| Quote: | | Is there a way of "listening again" at some site? In other words will it be posted on the net? |
I will post the relevant links shortly.
Meanwhile, earlier today Rob Hopkins (Founder of the Transition Town Movement) elected to remove my posts from his blog
although they are up again at the time of writing!
Perhaps yesterday was a watershed moment for Transition Town. The onus is now on the TT community to decide whether it is evolving into something that is truly sustainable ... or it is a glorified 'personality cult', which will dissolve as it becomes apparent that it's primary tenets cannot stand up to intellectual scrutiny.
Respect of copyright prevents me from reproducing an email received from Rob Hopkins earlier today. However, I have advised Rob that I will be re-producing my response. See Below:
| Quote: | Hi Rob,
your response does neither you nor the Transition Town movement credit. Your persistent refusal to debate the issue of 'Peak Oil' whilst touting a largely unsubstantiated 'Peak Oil' dogma is at best myopic and possibly delusional.
Your ungracious acceptance of the fact that you were found wanting in debate goes a long way to explaining why you have systematically avoided participating in any event where you cannot present your views in anything other than a totally sympathetic environment. if you are, as you claimed, a Director of the Soil Association, your dismissal of Codex Alimentarius as 'not significant' is outrageous ... but completely in keeping with your apparent inability to take on-board any information which does not support your one-dimensional and extremely superficial take on deep geo-political issues.
I would ask that you reflect upon the following Ross Hemsworth observation, 'Transition Towns regard Rob Hopkins as their greatest asset, yet as you will hear in the debate, he may yet turn out to be their greatest liability.'
In the interest of intellectual integrity (a concept that you appear to have some difficulty in comprehending) all exchanges between us should be conducted in the public domain. Also, please be advised that I reserve the right to post selected passages from your emails to illustrate the magnitude of your intellectual arrogance.
Rob, I am going to post this response in full in the hope that there are people within the TT movement who have the foresight to see the potential damage of your apparent intransigence on issues which you are unable to effectively defend in the face of evidence which runs contrary to your simplistic world view.
No doubt you will attempt to dismiss the evidence backed views of both Peter & myself as 'absurd', but I know that there are committed TT participants who are finding your apparent intransigence rather difficult to comprehend.
Finally, in the interests of moving this issue forward and bearing in mind that it is YOU who has apparently determined that 'Peak Oil' & 'Man-Made Climate Change' should be the Twin Drivers of the Transition Town Community, Dr. Peter Taylor and I undertake to present our evidence to any members of the various TT groups who wish to demonstrate a greater degree of objectivity than you appear to be able to apply.
Kind regards,
Ian. |
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uselesseater
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ianrcrane
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Peak Oil - The Debate |
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Tonight (Monday 17th March) at 8 p.m - The Peak Oil Debate
www.glastonburyradio.net
Tonight at 8 p.m. (GMT) hear the debate that they are ALL talking about between Rob Hopkins from Transition Towns and Ian Crane on the subject of Peak Oil.
Hosted by Ross Hemsworth and John Farrell, and later joined by scientist Dr. Peter Taylor talking about global warming which he believes should be called Global Cooling!
Email studio@glastonburyradio.net with your questions and comments about the debate.
See the comments posted HERE |
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Newspeak International
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ianrcrane
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: TT integrity |
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I have just posted the following comment on Rob Hopkins blog ... somehow I doubt it will be there for very long!
| Quote: | Rob,
your unwillingness to permit my posts to remain on your blog ... speaks volumes! Do you really appreciate how much this undermines the alleged integrity of your 'Leadership'?
Sure, you have TT disciples who will blindly follow your messianic stance but you must be aware that questions are already being asked as to why you are either unwilling or unable to support your position with anything more than anecdotal 'evidence'.
If you are so sure about your position on 'Peak Oil' you would not hesitate to establish the superiority of your position vs. mine, which you can only casually dismiss as 'absurd'.
Frankly, your actions are rather disturbing.
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James C
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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It's sad to see that in the light of oil at $110/barrel and a rapidly failing global economic system that Ian Crane can still spout the bull sh*t he does.
Shame on you Ian. Can you now stop hiding behind your pretense that you were in anyway connected with the oil industry from a scientific point of view and reveal that actually you just spent your days pushing paper around a few desks and made a few field visits to justify your salary.
The simple fact is we are at near peak now. I have yet to see any credible evidence by you that peak oil is a myth other than to read your silly conspiratorial rants. In fact there is no one except for a few people like you and the abiotic crowd who promote peak oil as fiction. It's a fact - get used to it; peak oil will happen sometime in the next decade if not now. Perhaps you'd care to explain how crude oil output (not including all liquids) has not increased since its a maximum output in May 2005 (EIA figures). And if you don't understand why this is significant then you obviously don't understand peak oil. |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Perhaps you'd care to explain how crude oil output (not including all liquids) has not increased since its a maximum output in May 2005 ( |
Possibly because oil companies benefit from a massive increase in the price of oil so they "manage" events to ensure that the price rises. For instance ensuring wars start which cause oil production to be hit and cause panic among stock markets. We have been here before time and time again. In the 1970s we were told exactly what we are being told now but the price of oil fell dramatically after a while and we forgot about the whole scary things we were told about oil running out and everybody starving. It is MANAGED!!!!
_________________
"The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell. |
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James C
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | Perhaps you'd care to explain how crude oil output (not including all liquids) has not increased since its a maximum output in May 2005 ( |
Possibly because oil companies benefit from a massive increase in the price of oil so they "manage" events to ensure that the price rises. For instance ensuring wars start which cause oil production to be hit and cause panic among stock markets. We have been here before time and time again. In the 1970s we were told exactly what we are being told now but the price of oil fell dramatically after a while and we forgot about the whole scary things we were told about oil running out and everybody starving. It is MANAGED!!!! |
Any proof of this?
Can you also explain how global oil output is still rising if you include 'all liquids'? Do you understand the relevance of this? |
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uselesseater
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James C
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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It's amazing that Crane is desperate to promote the issues surrounding codex alimentarius as something significant which will affect us all when it administers significant change in 2010 and yet he sees peak oil as requiring no promotion whatsoever despite the fact it will destroy the western way of life in a far more extreme way and sooner (even if peak oil is manufactured as he asserts). It's even more galling that he can criticize TT for wishing to promote grass roots action to mitigate the effects of peak oil and climate change by encouraging local food production, community values and de-centralized politics when that is exactly what he pretends to stand for.
Crane is nothing more than a self-promoter who should be ignored at all costs. Hopkins made sense. Crane sounded like an idiot and a jealous one at that. Nothing new there then.
And who the f*ck was that so called scientist Dr Peter Taylor? What planet was he from and where was his evidence? Anyone can go on radio and claim to know about something but actually imparting facts and figures backed up by relevant sources is generally a good idea when doing so which Taylor failed to do. Mind you, so did Crane. How many times have I heard Crane mention his little anecdotes about the views of his mates in Schlumberger as if this is all the proof you need that peak oil is a myth. It's like me as a plumber saying there will never be a copper shortage because the man in Plumb Center said so. Give us a break Ian. Why don't you start by analyzing the data from the EIA, IEA, ODAC and ASPO and tell us why the numbers are wrong? |
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Newspeak International
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ianrcrane
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: Right on cue! |
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It seem that Dr. Peter Taylor is the only scientist to suggest that Global Warming is a scam!
| Quote: | Eco-loonies reject an inconvenient truth
Here’s a story you won’t have heard about. The founder of the Weather Channel in the U.S. says Al Gore should be sued for fraud.
John Coleman says that’s the only way all the evidence about ‘climate change’ can be properly challenged. He insists the great global warming scare is a huge scam, and says he has scientific proof to back him up.
Coleman doesn’t deny that the weather cycles change, and he admits that carbon emissions are higher than they were, say, 300 years ago. But he says carbon in the atmosphere amounts to only 38 particles in 100,000. And far from ‘global warming’, the earth is actually in a cooling-down phase. If all the available evidence on both sides Fox News after speaking at a conference on climate change in New York`. None of the major networks touched the story, and neither did the big city papers, which buy the Gore line wholesale.
There’s been little or no coverage here, since the broadcast media in particular, has taken leave of its senses over ‘climate change’.
Most news bulletin’s these days these days are little more than party political broadcasts by Greenpeace. They’re like the lunatics who walk up and down Oxford Street wearing sandwich boards and screaming that The End of the World is Nigh.
Politicians have a vested interest in peddling this swindle. It’s the easiest way of bullying us and picking our pockets.
Coleman insists that in a couple of years most of us will wake up and realise that we’ve been had.
It’s fair to assume he has some idea of what he’s talking about, since – unlike most of the hysterical doom-mongers – he’s been a meteorologist all of his life.
Sometimes you do need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
If the eco-loonies and climate change fascists are convinced they’re right, why not let their theories be tested forensically in court?
Surely they’re not afraid of an inconvenient truth?
Richard Littlejohn
Daily Mail (Page 15) – Tuesday 18th March 2008
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In case you hadn't gathered, I feel exactly the same way about the Peak Oil scam.
Ian R. Crane |
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karlos
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| James C wrote: |
Crane is nothing more than a self-promoter who should be ignored at all costs. Hopkins made sense. Crane sounded like an idiot and a jealous one at that. Nothing new there then.
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James - i sense from this childish outburst that you and the rest of your peak oil scammers are getting frustrated at having lost the argument.
Peak Oil is a myth created by the Neo-Cons and used as an excuse for wars and austerity.
Peak Oil has been thoroughly exposed as a lie and the fact is that most educated people see it for what it is - propaganda.
James - I would like to ask a question though. Who funds the 'peak oil' campaign?
You guys have google adwords advertising and employ PR consultants. So who foots the bills?
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blackcat
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| ianrcrane wrote: | | It seem that Dr. Peter Taylor is the only scientist to suggest that Global Warming is a scam! |
I think you missed a "not" out of that sentence.
_________________
"The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell. |
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ianrcrane
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: Ross Hemsworth Under Attack |
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It seems that there are elements amongst the Transition Town Community whose blinkers are firmly in place. This organisation is beginning to take on 'cult-like' status in its determination to hang on to its mantra of 'Peak Oil' & 'Man-Made Climate Change'.
The following article has been posted by Ross Hemsworth of Glastonbury Radio MD:
| Quote: | Under Attack From All Angles ...
Well, the peak oil debate aired last night on Glastonbury Radio, and whilst most of the audience thoroughly enjoyed it, a few old foes couldn’t help but attack me personally for airing it!
Although I tried to stay firmly “on the fence” throughout the interview, I got criticised by people for not giving Rob Hopkins enough time to respond!! Now anyone who understands interview technique knows that if you are holding a debate and one interviewee gives shorter replies and stops dead at the end of the sentence, you then go to the other interviewee/s for their response to avoid “dead air”, so was it MY fault that Ian Crane gave longer and more factual, comprehensive replies than Rob Hopkins? No! But some people seemed to think so!
One local “speaker” Nicholas Mann who seems for some reason to be revered by many, has chosen again to amongst those attacking me on a local forum (not for the first time incidentally) - I wonder if this is because he has never been invited on Now THAT’S Weird? I don’t know what else I have ever done to this man to be singled out for undeserved criticism in this way, but one thing’s for sure - he don’t seem to like me lol!
It seems to me that a few staunch followers of Rob Hopkins felt he didn’t get his argument across well in the interview and therefore tried to defend HIM by blaming ME for the fact that he turned up unprepared and unable to defend his position against Ian Crane. Mr Hopkins himself accused me in an e-mail, of being biased and obviously a friend of Mr Crane, yet I had only met Ian a week before in Glastonbury and knew nothing of his research until watching a couple of his DVD’s the night before the interview, to prepare for the debate.
In my opinion, Mr Crane’s arguments are built on good effective research with evidence to back them up, whereas Mr Hopkins opinions seem to have little actual evidence to support them. I guess time will tell who is right and who is wrong, but Mr Hopkin’s failure to even recognise that at the very least, he needs to look into some of these points, means that as the spokesperson for the Transition Towns movement, I believe he should not be in that driving seat.
Please remember, that this is MY opinion based on what I heard and saw from the interviewees.
Ross
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James C
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | | James C wrote: |
Crane is nothing more than a self-promoter who should be ignored at all costs. Hopkins made sense. Crane sounded like an idiot and a jealous one at that. Nothing new there then.
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James - i sense from this childish outburst that you and the rest of your peak oil scammers are getting frustrated at having lost the argument.
Peak Oil is a myth created by the Neo-Cons and used as an excuse for wars and austerity.
Peak Oil has been thoroughly exposed as a lie and the fact is that most educated people see it for what it is - propaganda.
James - I would like to ask a question though. Who funds the 'peak oil' campaign?
You guys have google adwords advertising and employ PR consultants. So who foots the bills? |
There is no debate and no argument to lose so get over this silly little game you keep playing. You have shown time and time agian that you don't understand what peak oil actually is nor how it will manifest itself so I suggest you go and find out before you post anymore trash.
Peak oil is a major concern of the neo-cons and the head of which (Cheney - ex-Haliburton) knows all too well what affect it will have on the US economy (he even gave a speech about it in 1999 to the petroleum institute). May I remind you that the concept of peak oil was created long before neo-conservatism emerged. Go check your history.
Peak oil has hardly been exposed as anything let alone a fraud. And those who try to prove it to be a scam have made little attempt to criticize the science effectively. In fact, if peak oil were a myth, how come the US peaked in output in 1970 and now produces half of what it did back then? Is this just a scam too? It's no coincidence that as the largest importer of oil in the world (13 million barrels/day) the US is desperate to maintain the dollar as the trading currency for oil since its daily costs for that oil would be truly enormous and threatening to its economy if this were to change.
You can put your head back in the sand now.
Last edited by James C on Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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James C
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Ross Hemsworth Under Attack |
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| ianrcrane wrote: | It seems that there are elements amongst the Transition Town Community whose blinkers are firmly in place. This organisation is beginning to take on 'cult-like' status in its determination to hang on to its mantra of 'Peak Oil' & 'Man-Made Climate Change'.
The following article has been posted by Ross Hemsworth of Glastonbury Radio MD:
| Quote: | Under Attack From All Angles ...
Well, the peak oil debate aired last night on Glastonbury Radio, and whilst most of the audience thoroughly enjoyed it, a few old foes couldn’t help but attack me personally for airing it!
Although I tried to stay firmly “on the fence” throughout the interview, I got criticised by people for not giving Rob Hopkins enough time to respond!! Now anyone who understands interview technique knows that if you are holding a debate and one interviewee gives shorter replies and stops dead at the end of the sentence, you then go to the other interviewee/s for their response to avoid “dead air”, so was it MY fault that Ian Crane gave longer and more factual, comprehensive replies than Rob Hopkins? No! But some people seemed to think so!
One local “speaker” Nicholas Mann who seems for some reason to be revered by many, has chosen again to amongst those attacking me on a local forum (not for the first time incidentally) - I wonder if this is because he has never been invited on Now THAT’S Weird? I don’t know what else I have ever done to this man to be singled out for undeserved criticism in this way, but one thing’s for sure - he don’t seem to like me lol!
It seems to me that a few staunch followers of Rob Hopkins felt he didn’t get his argument across well in the interview and therefore tried to defend HIM by blaming ME for the fact that he turned up unprepared and unable to defend his position against Ian Crane. Mr Hopkins himself accused me in an e-mail, of being biased and obviously a friend of Mr Crane, yet I had only met Ian a week before in Glastonbury and knew nothing of his research until watching a couple of his DVD’s the night before the interview, to prepare for the debate.
In my opinion, Mr Crane’s arguments are built on good effective research with evidence to back them up, whereas Mr Hopkins opinions seem to have little actual evidence to support them. I guess time will tell who is right and who is wrong, but Mr Hopkin’s failure to even recognise that at the very least, he needs to look into some of these points, means that as the spokesperson for the Transition Towns movement, I believe he should not be in that driving seat.
Please remember, that this is MY opinion based on what I heard and saw from the interviewees.
Ross
Source
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I see that you still haven't attempted to debunk the actual data by the groups I listed or don't you understand what they have to say? And what do the EIA and IEA promote - do they declare imminent peak oil or not? Perhaps if you'd care to look you might just see that they don't accept peak oil will occur any time soon and these guys are the voices of the entire industry. I think the EIA puts the event as happening in 2030 at the earliest. Hardly helps your theory that it is all a conspiracy does it?
And if your reference to TT being a cult means you accept it is understood and populated by only a small handful of people then you are right. I doubt whether one in several thousand people have ever heard of it never mind have attended a meeting. So why pick on a minority group who is trying to promote strong local communities where big politics is to be replaced by people power, food and manufacturing will become localized and fiat money will be ditched in favour of other trading currencies to help the poor? Why do you rally against such concepts just because you don't agree with the reasons behind them? Is this your attempt at stealing the limelight so you can continue to influence easily led people like Karlos? Why not do something more productive with your life? |
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The Watcher
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: Peak Oil Debate |
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Peak Oil Debate
Here's a link to the March 17th Glastonbury Radio Peak Oil debate between Rob Hopkins (Transition Town), Ian Crane (Ex-Oilfield Services) & Peter Taylor (Ex-Greenpeace, British Government & EU Environmentalist).
Glastonbury Radio Peak Oil Debate
Interesting to note that both Ian Crane & Peter Taylor reference their sources and encourage listeners to do their own research, whereas Hopkins seemed to be spouting 'received wisdom'.
If nothing else, this discussion demonstrates that there is a debate to be had on these issues.
The Watcher |
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TonyGosling
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The Watcher
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: Peak Oil DVD |
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Although the link takes a few minutes to download, it should work just the same as an mp3.
After listening to the debate on Monday evening, I ordered Ian's DVD 'Peak Oil: Myth or Reality'.
I've just finished watching it and highly recommend it. This presentation provides an excellent insight into the geo-fiscal manipulation of the oil industry by none other than The Money Masters. Ian doesn't pull any punches and even identifies the Harvard cabal behind the Peak Oil scam.
It'll certainly give James C plenty to write about!
James, if you PM me your address, I'll even buy you a copy and have it mailed to you directly.
I also ordered Ian's outstanding Codex Alimentarius DVD but I'll comment on that elsewhere.
The Watcher |
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James C
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil DVD |
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| The Watcher wrote: | Although the link takes a few minutes to download, it should work just the same as an mp3.
After listening to the debate on Monday evening, I ordered Ian's DVD 'Peak Oil: Myth or Reality'.
I've just finished watching it and highly recommend it. This presentation provides an excellent insight into the geo-fiscal manipulation of the oil industry by none other than The Money Masters. Ian doesn't pull any punches and even identifies the Harvard cabal behind the Peak Oil scam.
It'll certainly give James C plenty to write about!
James, if you PM me your address, I'll even buy you a copy and have it mailed to you directly.
I also ordered Ian's outstanding Codex Alimentarius DVD but I'll comment on that elsewhere.
The Watcher |
Your offer is very kind and I will take you up on it but only when Ian responds to my questions (which I have been asking since last July) and he proves once and for all that ASPO, ODAC, the EIA and IEA are wrong about their figures. I don't want any hearsay stuff from his Schlumberger days or nonsense about Jerome 'abiotic' Corsi but an analysis of the actual data that exists from the relevant monitoring groups. For instance, can he really back up his claim that oil reserve figures have increased by 500% in the past few years?
When I receive a proper, rational critique, I will be in touch. You never know, you may actually discover his DVD to be full of myth itself and you've wasted your money and filled his pockets (once a money grabbing oil man, always a money grabbing oilman hey! - except that he didn't actually work in geological analysis and study of oil but in telecommunications, that is, he put a few cables together wherever Schlumberger wanted him to). |
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uselesseater
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ian, you sure sum it up about right when you compare such contingents to cults. The blinkered attitude of Mr. Hopkins is that of a religious believer (fanatic?) defending his faith. Come to think of it, that’s a bit of an insult to a lot of religious scholars who generally come out with a rebuttals a deal more impressive than those of Rob Hopkins.
This is interesting and commonplace:
"Mr Hopkins himself accused me in an e-mail, of being biased and obviously a friend of Mr Crane,"
It seems those who are ever ready to throw the conspiracy theory insult around are quite apt at the odd conspiracy theory themselves, when it suits them.
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blackcat
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88520025
| Quote: | The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat
by Richard Harris
Stuart Westmorland
Oceans hold much more heat than the atmosphere can.
Morning Edition, March 19, 2008 · Some 3,000 scientific robots that are plying the ocean have sent home a puzzling message. These diving instruments suggest that the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather. Or it could mean scientists aren't quite understanding what their robots are telling them.
This is puzzling in part because here on the surface of the Earth, the years since 2003 have been some of the hottest on record. But Josh Willis at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory says the oceans are what really matter when it comes to global warming.
In fact, 80 percent to 90 percent of global warming involves heating up ocean waters. They hold much more heat than the atmosphere can. So Willis has been studying the ocean with a fleet of robotic instruments called the Argo system. The buoys can dive 3,000 feet down and measure ocean temperature. Since the system was fully deployed in 2003, it has recorded no warming of the global oceans.
"There has been a very slight cooling, but not anything really significant," Willis says. So the buildup of heat on Earth may be on a brief hiatus. "Global warming doesn't mean every year will be warmer than the last. And it may be that we are in a period of less rapid warming."
In recent years, heat has actually been flowing out of the ocean and into the air. This is a feature of the weather phenomenon known as El Nino. So it is indeed possible the air has warmed but the ocean has not. But it's also possible that something more mysterious is going on.
That becomes clear when you consider what's happening to global sea level. Sea level rises when the oceans get warm because warmer water expands. This accounts for about half of global sea level rise. So with the oceans not warming, you would expect to see less sea level rise. Instead, sea level has risen about half an inch in the past four years. That's a lot.
Willis says some of this water is apparently coming from a recent increase in the melting rate of glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica.
"But in fact there's a little bit of a mystery. We can't account for all of the sea level increase we've seen over the last three or four years," he says.
One possibility is that the sea has, in fact, warmed and expanded — and scientists are somehow misinterpreting the data from the diving buoys.
But if the aquatic robots are actually telling the right story, that raises a new question: Where is the extra heat all going?
Kevin Trenberth at the National Center for Atmospheric Research says it's probably going back out into space. The Earth has a number of natural thermostats, including clouds, which can either trap heat and turn up the temperature, or reflect sunlight and help cool the planet.
That can't be directly measured at the moment, however.
"Unfortunately, we don't have adequate tracking of clouds to determine exactly what role they've been playing during this period," Trenberth says.
It's also possible that some of the heat has gone even deeper into the ocean, he says. Or it's possible that scientists need to correct for some other feature of the planet they don't know about. It's an exciting time, though, with all this new data about global sea temperature, sea level and other features of climate.
"I suspect that we'll able to put this together with a little bit more perspective and further analysis," Trenberth says. "But what this does is highlight some of the issues and send people back to the drawing board."
Trenberth and Willis agree that a few mild years have no effect on the long-term trend of global warming. But they say there are still things to learn about how our planet copes with the heat. |
There is a 4 minute audio at the above link.
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"The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell. |
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Mark Gobell
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 4529
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| James C - I'll knock you down Gobell wrote: | | It's sad to see that in the light of oil at $110/barrel and a rapidly failing global economic system that Ian Crane can still spout the bull sh*t he does. |
Hardly cutting edge research.
But.
Diesel is now 121.9 pence per litre near to me.
But, admittedly I do live in a peak place.
Petrol Prices
121.9 pence = £1.22
£1.22 = $2.42 per litre !
XE
$2.42 per litre = $10.90 per UK gallon
or
$2.42 per litre = $9.14 per US gallon
Conversions
Average US gasoline price last week = $3.2 per US gallon
Source
One US gallon = 3.785 Litres
That means a price of $0.845 per Litre at US prices
Which, in UK money is, 42.6 pence per litre.
Yet, my local diesel, "peaked" this week at 121.9 pence.
That's 286% more expensive than in the USA.
Which could lead to some describing the situation as being that UK fuel is almost 3 times more costly than in the USA.
| James C - I'll knock you down Gobell wrote: | | It's sad to see that in the light of oil at $110/barrel. . |
That's $110 a barrel everywhere in the world then James ?
So, why the disparity in pump prices ?
Is "peak oil" localised ?
| James C wrote: | | In fact, if peak oil were a myth, how come the US peaked in output in 1970 and now produces half of what it did back then? |
So then, if the USA has peaked nearly 40 years ago, then why are they paying a third of what we are paying James ?
Should I survey every country on earth for their retail prices of petrol, gas and electricity ?
Are we to have a peak gas moment too ?
How about a peak electricity crisis also ?
Peak Peanut Oil ?
Peak Carbon Dioxide ?
Peak weather ?
Peak water ?
Peak jobs ?
Peak Credit Crunch ?
Peak Climate Change ?
Peak mortgages ?
Peak rain ?
Peak wheat ?
Peak food ?
Peak people ?
Personally, I'm looking forward to a Peak Terrrrrrrrorrrrrism so that we can all relax again.
Peak Faith James or Peak Fear ?
Perish the thought.
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The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
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John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Your offer is very kind and I will take you up on it but only when Ian responds to my questions (which I have been asking since last July) and he proves once and for all that ASPO, ODAC, the EIA and IEA are wrong about their figures. I don't want any hearsay stuff from his Schlumberger days or nonsense about Jerome 'abiotic' Corsi but an analysis of the actual data that exists from the relevant monitoring groups. For instance, can he really back up his claim that oil reserve figures have increased by 500% in the past few years?
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I find the heatedness in this debate understandable but regretable
However, this is precisely the kind of claim that I not only want, but need, to see validated before I'm going to come close to any kind of acceptance of peak Oil "being a scam": and if it can't be validated, then its rash to accept it
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Free your Self and Free the World |
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gruts
Major Poster
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 1050
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So, why the disparity in pump prices ? |
different rates of tax? |
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James C
Major Poster
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1046
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Another day and Mr Crane still can't answer, or won't answer, my questions.
What does Ian have to lose if his theory is so sound? And I was so looking forward to receiving my free DVD from The Watcher too.
Perhaps Mr Gobell would care to answer my questions on Ian's behalf instead of resorting to pointless observations about pump prices (cheap fuel in the US does not mean it didn't peak in 1970 - what a joke!). Or how about any of Mr Crane's other followers - care to offer some input about the data instead? Ian's silence on this issue must be really embarrassing for you all. |
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James C
Major Poster
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1046
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Oh this is getting worse.
Due to my stance on this issue, my status on this site has been changed from Major Poster to 9/11 Truth Critic!!!!
What is it with some people. Such incredible petty mindedness is beyond a joke.
Isn't this just fascism? Whoever did this is no better than the neo-cons or any other conspiratorial group they are rallying against. Shame on them.
Pathetic!
Oh, and I noticed that Mr Crane was on the forum this morning and yet still didn't take any time to answer me. There are too many cowards on here ready to spout utter nonsense and vitriol rather than discuss the data.
Again, pathetic!! |
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