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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:37 am Post subject: Eurosocialist & Antifascist: Who's blocking our Rights? |
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Eurosocialist and Antifascist
http://tinyurl.com/yqslpc
My readers will have noticed by now that the Chimes of Freedom blog is headed by the European flag under which is stated that it is both Eurosocialist and Antifascist.
Non-British readers may not be aware of the ongoing campaign by the extreme Right against Britain's membership of the European Union. These Europhobes --more kindly described as Eurosceptics-- are a motley group of Little Englanders, mainly of a xenophobic and reactionary right persuasion.
But, having lost an Empire and any sense of raison d'etre, it is not only the usual blimpish right that lays a claim to exercise British xenophobia. The malaise stretches right across the social and political spectrum to include a lot of lefties lost in a political wilderness and without an ideological home.
Whereas the concept of a united, European Left is both a popular and normal phenomenon in continental Europe, the British Left has retained its traditional aloofness and pukka attitudes by not joining that common European front. 'Europe' is referred to as 'somewhere over there' as if Britain is somehow separated from Europe.
Of course this is nonsense. Britain is and has always been indivisibly part of Europe in its geography, its culture, its religion, its politics and its language. Only in a strangely schizophrenic British attitude of mind will you find Britain to be a separate entity, where when fog obscures the Channel it is the Continent that is cut off, not this overcrowded little island.
And due, no doubt, to the dumbing-down of the British mainstream media (MSM) even the Continent is no longer referred to as such. It has become 'Europe', something which Britain is not part of. The traditionally conservative outlook of the Brit has become so insular it would rather cut off all contact with the non-English speaking world to live in an artificial bubble of unreality which it hopes will be forever England.
It is part of a serious social malaise that is now so advanced it is eating at the imperial foundations upon which the very United Kingdom itself was built. Britain is in post-imperial collapse and in denial, projecting instead its unhappiness with itself on 'Europe' and immigration.
This social malaise (or is psychosis a more appropriate description?) is now so widespread that Britain provides the Basil Fawlty-type xenophobic Right with a breeding ground for the narrow-minded, petty bourgeois attitudes that Mrs Thatcher implanted in the susceptible British psyche.
The so-called demand for what is referred to as a referendum on Europe perfectly describes the spell of reactionary-minded xenophobia the British (predominantly the English) have fallen under. Disguised by a blimpish indignation against having to use metric measurements instead of imperial ones and driving 'on the wrong side of the road' (it appears that most of the world has been driving on the wrong side) this xenophobia is currently expressing itself as (i) Europhobia, (ii) a general hostility towards immigration, and (iii) an Islamophobia fuelled by the Bush/Blair fake 'War on Terror'.
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As an ex-colonial Brit, I am able to gauge and understand the British mentality both from a peculiarly British view of things as well as to perceive it from an arm's-length-view of one who still has a colonial memory of being at the receiving end of British attitudes.
The world-famous Canadian author of The English Patient, Michael Ondaatje, is a fellow expatriate of mine. His father, Mervyn, a planter in the old colonial Ceylon of the 1930's, was a pal of my old man who was also a planter. The Ondaatjes used to visit my family from time to time and my elder sisters have a memory of Michael as a rather tubby, aloof little chap who used to love scoffing on a can of condensed milk.
Michael Ondaatje
In his book, Running in the Family, Michael Ondaatje writes of an occasion when Mervyn, who rather worse for drink, held up the Colombo to Kandy train by running along the top to the engine, getting the driver drunk on arrack, leaping off the hotplate to strip off his clothes and run naked into a tunnel from whence he refused to emerge, thereby playing havoc with the Ceylon Government Railways' wartime schedule.
But why did a Ceylon Army officer have to run along the top of the train?
Because, as a dusky Eurasian, he with every other non-white officer was forbidden to walk through the train's corridors where there were compartments occupied by pukka white officers of the stiff upper lip British raj. That kind of mixing simply wouldn't do. It just wasn't British.
Eurasians of my ilk grew up with a memory of the precious white attitudes of Brits who walked around Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) with a permanent, invisible wall of separateness that kept them in a constant state of undeclared apartheid from the rest of the dark-skinned rabble. Fortunately for me, any fake ideas of British or white superiority that might have been implanted within by colonial conditioning was soon knocked out in the nationalist upsurge of the 1950's when British colonialism was thrown unceremoniously out of the window.
That nationalist reaction to four hundred years of colonial rule, first by the Portuguese, then by the Dutch and finally by the English, was understandable. But sadly, like all extreme reactions, it too was destructive leading to the fifty-year civil war that Sri Lanka experiences to this day. But that's another story.
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Returning to the white, pukka attitudes of the British mentality: really, nothing has changed very much since it lost its Empire. The pukka attitudes simply submerged into a quite artificial, Basil Fawlty-type 'Britishness' and continued to emerge as a desperate distaste and even hostility towards 'coloureds', foreigners in general and now, together with the rest of Europe, as Islamophobia.
But none of these things can be admitted to. The British believe themselves to be far too tolerant and fair-minded for that. So they have to be thinly disguised by entirely nonsensical rationales such as a pretend 'Euroscepticism' which hides a fully-blown Europhobic, xenophobia.
A xenophobia which is a sign of an endemic mental weakness or malaise, exposing Britain as the perennial sick man of Europe. A sickness which right-wing politicians, 'neo-liberals', Atlanticists and Washington's Neocon, closet fascists fully use to their advantage to drive a wedge between Britain and the rest of the European Union.
It is highly significant that an anti-EU Referendum rally is to be held in London next week, preceded the day before by the blimpish racists of the No Sharia Here SIOE, led by the Fawlty-like Stephen Gash and masterminded by the ubiquitous political opportunist, the Danish Anders Gravers. You can be sure that a lot of the Islamophobes marching on October 26 will also be marching in the EU Referendum rally. The same petty-bourgeois closet-racists are behind both Islamophobia and Europhobia.
Stephen Gash out of Fawlty Towers
And these phobic types are being supported by media tyrants like Rupert Murdoch who, like the criminal Conrad Black, not only support the Bush fascists but would have Britain out of the EU and into the economic hegemony of the North American Free Trade Association (NAFTA).
Ever since the end of WWII, Britain has been under the military hegemony of the US and its foreign policy. During the Thatcher years, Britain became 'Airstrip One', a forward base for US imperialism and potential nuclear attack in a European Theatre of War. But it remained, on the whole, within the economic hegemony of the European Community, later Union.
Thatcher never like that idea and cashed-in on the natural anti-European sentiments of Britain's Basil Fawlty mentality by keeping Britain out of the Euro and the Maastricht treaty.
Homegrown xenophobic, Europhobia also provided the Thatcherites and their successors, the Blair/Brownites, with the political clout to opt out of various areas of European legislation meant to protect the rights of trades unions and, through the Working Directive, to provide a maximum limit of 48 hours to the working week.
Using Newspeak and by turning reality on its head, this socially progressive legislation by the European Union was presented to a wholly prejudiced and tranced-out British audience as somehow a threat to British liberties! And this in a country which remains the historical cradle of trades unionism and the struggle for a 40-hour week which, when finally obtained, was done in by Thatcher and her peculiarly British form of fascism.
Thus, in today's dark ages, even a 48-hour week is presented by British capitalists as something that we progressive Brits would rather not have! And, together with having opted out of that social legislation, the closet-fascists and their Tory fellow-travellers in the Cameron party of Neocons would have us give away our human rights as well, the Human Rights Act of 1999 being presented by Britain's lying media as something which militates against and threatens our human rights!
A Human Rights Act, by the way, which it took 49 years for the complacent Brits to get around to legislate into its own laws, such was the reluctance of the British ruling classes to deal with anything that smacked of rights for the lower classes! And now the Brits are being conned into believing that 'Europe threatens its independence'! In the 51st State what independence does Britain have? The British bubble of unreality again!
Reich Fieldmarshall Hermann Goering was right in one thing at least when he predicted in 1940 that in twenty years time Britain would become an overcrowded little island living on the glories of its past.
Overcrowded, yes. But not by immigrants. By a breakdown of infrastructure and public transport and an overpopulation of private transport. Living on the glories of its past, yes. But where the Neocon fascists in Washington are calculatedly using British xenophobia, nostalgia and an entirely false belief in its independence to stir-up racism, religious hate and persecution and to persuade a generation of British working people, ignorant of their past struggles, to forsake all their hard-earned rights by turning its back on protective European social legislation.
The call for a Referendum is a fake, carefully packaged by the Right to sound as if it were something to do with free speech. The same free speech which the Right constantly abuse by using it to promote xenophobia, race hate and to attack the people's social and civil rights.
It is for these reasons that Chimes of Freedom and New Civilization remains solidly Eurosocialist, in defence of the people's rights, and Antifascist against the pukka white nonsense of xenophobia and imperialist racism. _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com
http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/
http://x09.eu/splash/
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Last edited by Rory Winter on Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:28 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: Valéry Giscard d'Estaing: The EU Treaty is the same as the C |
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Valéry Giscard d'Estaing: The EU Treaty is the same as the Constitution
Lift the lid and look in the toolbox, and all the same innovative tools are there
The Independent, 30 October 2007
http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article3109902.ece
The difference between the original Constitution and the present Lisbon Treaty is one of approach, rather than content. The draft constitution resulted from a political desire to simplify European institutions, rendered inefficient by recent expansions. It was about creating more democracy and transparency within the European Union. It was about opening the way for a "Constitution for the people of Europe".
These goals were reflected in the composition of the treaty-drafting Convention which brought together representatives from the European Parliament and national parliaments, from the governments of member states, as well as from the European Commission. The debates were very public. The resulting draft constitution was a new text and replaced all previous treaties.
For the Treaty of Lisbon the process has been very different. It was the legal experts for the European Council who were charged with drafting the new text. They have not made any new suggestions. They have taken the original draft constitution, blown it apart into separate elements, and have then attached them, one by one, to existing treaties. The Treaty of Lisbon is thus a catalogue of amendments. It is unpenetrable for the public.
In terms of content, the proposed institutional reforms – the only ones which mattered to the drafting Convention – are all to be found in the Treaty of Lisbon. They have merely been ordered differently and split up between previous treaties. There are, however, some differences. Firstly, the noun "constitution" and the adjective "constitutional" have been banished from the text, as though they describe something inadmissible. At the same time, all mention of the symbols of the EU have been suppressed, including the flag (which already flies everywhere), and the European anthem (Beethoven's Ode to Joy). However ridiculous they seem, these decisions are significant. They are intended to chase away any suggestion that Europe may one day have a formal political status. They sound a significant retreat from European political ambition.
The concessions given to French opponents of the constitutional treaty are more symbolic than substantial. The expression "free and undistorted competition" has been taken out at the request of President Sarkozy. It reappears at the request of the British, in an annexed protocol to the new treaty which stipulates that "the internal market, such as is defined in Article 3 of the treaty, includes a system guaranteeing that competition is undistorted".
Far more important are the concessions made to the British. The Charter of Fundamental Rights – an improved and updated version of the Charter of Human Rights – has been withdrawn from the draft treaty and made into a separate text, to which Britain will not be bound. In the area of judicial harmonisation and co-operation, Britain will have the right to duck in and out of the system as it pleases. Having already weakened all attempts at further European integration – such as by refusing the title of Minister for Foreign Affairs – Britain has also been allowed to be the odd man out whenever it feels like it.
Otherwise, the proposals in the original constitutional treaty are practically unchanged. They have simply been dispersed through old treaties in the form of amendments. Why this subtle change? Above all, to head off any threat of referenda by avoiding any form of constitutional vocabulary.
The Brussels institutions have also cleverly reclaimed the process from the – to them – unwelcome intrusion of parliamentarians and politicians in the work of the original drafting Convention. The institutions have re-imposed their language and their procedures – taking us even further away from ordinary citizens.
Now comes the ratification process. There should not be any big problems – except in Britain where a referendum would obviously lead to a "No" vote. Elsewhere, the complexity of the new text, and the apparent surrender of all sweeping ambitions, should be enough to smooth over all difficulties.
But lift the lid and look in the toolbox: all the same innovative and effective tools are there, just as they were carefully crafted by the European Convention: a stable Presidency; a streamlined Commission; a Parliament with genuine legislative rights; a Foreign Minister, even if he has been given another inadequate title; decisions taken by a double majority of governments and citizens; and the most advanced charter of fundamental rights in the world.
When men and women with sweeping ambitions for Europe decide to make use of this treaty, they will be able to rekindle from the ashes of today the flame of a United Europe.
The writer, a former French President (1974-81), was president of the Convention on the Future of Europe, which drafted a new constitution, 2002-03
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Rory's Comments:
Giscard d'Estaing's comments about the 'concessions' made to the British bear out what I have already said in a previous article, Eurosocialist and Antifascist.
http://tinyurl.com/yqslpc
The 'concessions' made to the British government by the Lisbon Treaty are those which will benefit British capitalism and the ruling classes, not the ordinary person. By allowing Britain not to be bound by the new Charter of Fundamental Rights and to duck in and out of judicial harmonisation and cooperation the Treaty of Lisbon has effectually allowed the encroaching British police state an unfettered freedom to do as it will and its judiciary to continue as a law unto itself.
All this amounts to very bad news for the average Brit who, as I have said, was bamboozled by the British right into thinking of a new European Constitution as somehow a danger to it. As always, the British Right was able to turn reality on its head and to use a gullible and misinformed public to serve its own purposes.
CHIMES OF FREEDOM, http://tinyurl.com/3bcb6u _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:00 am Post subject: |
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Here is what the European Greens had to say about Britain's opt-out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights:
EU Summit : British opt-out from Fundamental Rights Charter is unacceptable
23.06.2007
Commenting on the outcome of the EU summit Johannes Vogggenhuber, MEPand Vice-President of the Constitutional Affairs Committee in the European Parliament, today said:
"Europe has come close to a deep division, which has only been avoided at the very last moment. This summit has shown that the political integration of the continent, which has been pursued for 50 years now, has adversaries within. An alliance of nationalists, neoliberal ideologues and Rumsfeld's New Europe is at work to reduce the continent to an internal market plus NATO. The 18 member states, which ratified the Constitutional treaty, underestimated the determination of this coalition and closed ranks too late.
Despite the absurd menaces and blackmail attempts of the [Polish] Kaczynski twins, the real bad guy of the summit is Tony Blair. The opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights he secured for the United Kingdom is unacceptable. Bearing in mind the universal principle of human and citizen rights', this opt-out is extremely destructive for the credibility of the European Union as a community of shared values both at home and abroad. These values are at the very heart of Europe and if the UK doesn't share in them is it openly putting into question its own Community membership. Instead of allowing an opt-out, the EU should rather accept that the UK leaves the European project for good."
http://www.greens-efa.org/cms/pressreleases/dok/188/188278.eu_summit@f r.htm
Charter of Fundamental Rights, PDF Version
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/charter/pdf/text_en.pdf _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
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Last edited by Rory Winter on Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: You, Europe, and your rights |
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These are the Fundamental Rights which the Brown government has opted out of. This amounts to nothing less than an all-out attack by Brown & Co on the fundamental rights of people in Britain!
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You, Europe, and your rights
The Government is blocking an EU charter which would protect these fundamental rights for British people. Why?
The Independent, 22 June 2007
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2692471.ece
Eugenics
Prohibition of eugenic practices, particularly those aiming at the selection of person. Article 3
What's at stake: Science is seeking to eradicatedisabilities by genetic manipulation. It might be possible for parents to order a "designer" baby.
Expert opinion: "I would be totally opposed to any attempt to socially engineer people."
Ian Gibson, vice-president, Royal Society for Public Understanding of Science
Torture
No one should be subjected to torture. Article 4
What's at stake: Since the invasion of Iraq, British soldiers have found themselves in the dock over the abuse of civilian detainees
Expert opinion: "It is all the more deplorable when some of the most powerful men on earth seek to justify the use of torture."
Moazzam Begg, a torture victim and former prisoner in Guantanamo Bay
Human trafficking
Trafficking in human beings is prohibited. Article 5
What's at stake: This year the UN said that human trafficking had reached epidemic proportions. The Home Office said that in 2003, 4,000 women were trafficked into the UK for sexual exploitation
Expert opinion: "It is shameful that this country is trying to duck out of a charter that specifically prohibits child trafficking."
Louise Christian, human rights lawyer
Data protection
Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her. Article 8
What's at stake: A vast amount of data is stored on each of us already. From 2010, ID cards will be compulsory for anyone applying for a passport in the UK.
Expert opinion: "It's... a safeguard to protect the right of the individual in relation to the state."
Maurice Frankel, director, Campaign for Freedom of Information
Right to protest
Everyone has the right to freedom of assembly and of association. Article 12
What's at stake: Anti-war protests prompted the Government to bring in legislation to prevent unlicensed demos within quarter of a mile of Parliament
Expert opinion: "Allowing dissent in the form of peaceful protest is the hallmark of a country that understands respect for human rights."
Kate Allen, Amnesty International UK director
Working rights
Every citizen of the Union has the freedom to seek employment... in any Member state. Article 15
What's at stake: The Conservatives' fear is that Poles and other east Europeans have taken up jobs and housing at British workers' expense
Expert opinion: "People who come to work in the UK are providing vital services which would collapse without them."
Brendan Barber, TUC general secretary
Deportation
No one can be removed to a state where there is a serious risk of torture. Article 19
What's at stake: The Government's determination to deport terror suspects to countries with questionable human rights records
Expert opinion: "In an effort to circumvent its obligations, the Government has secured 'memoranda of understanding' with Jordan, Libya and Lebanon."
Shami Chakrabarti, Liberty director
Industrial action
Workers have the right to take collective action to defend their interests, including strike action. Article 28
What's at stake: The right to strike has been restricted in the UK since the 1980s. There are rules about ballots andpicketing. None of these restrictions is mentioned in the charter
Expert opinion: "We back the right to strike, to negotiate, to fight against unfair dismissal."
John Monks, European TUC leader
Child exploitation
The employment of children is prohibited... except for limited derogations. Article 32
What's at stake: Could be a threat to family-run corner shops where children help out, or to the pocket money others earn from babysitting or paper rounds
Expert opinion: "To keep children safe, we must ensure parents and employers are clear about how and when children and young people can be employed."
NSPCC statement
Health care
Everyone has the right to preventative health care. Article 35
What's at stake: Earlier this month, The Independent highlighted a new pill that could help hay fever sufferers, which the NHS will not prescribe because of cost. Critics say this clause could open the NHS to litigation
Expert opinion: "This article would not give much backing to any patient who took on the NHS."
Dr Evan Harris, member Medical Ethics Committee _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
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Last edited by Rory Winter on Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:27 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: Do not Surrender Yet! |
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And now the point has to be made and loudly: it is not 'Europe' or a European Constitution which threatens the fundamental rights of the British. It is the fascist attitude of our own governments (both Nu Labour and Tory) which are creating the police state!
It is Britain that is the odd-man-out when it comes to the European Charter of Fundamental Rights. That is the reality. Yet what we read in most of the mass media (utter lies of course) makes out 'Europe' to be the threat! These lies must be challenged by folk like you and me. The fascist policies of British governments must be challenged, by civil disobedience if necessary, and we must appeal to the European Union for help. It is our only, last chance!
This goes for all of us but especially for minority groups who are at the sharp end of the British government's fascist persecution.
The people of Britain are the victims of the treason of their own political leaders. In the name of God, how long will it be before they wake up to see the truth. The truth, not the nonsense that is being shoved down our throats by a Right wing, fascist establishment?
There is still time to fight these fascist chickenhawks. To give up the struggle before the battle is over is to be a coward and a defeatist. Worse still, to do so is to betray ourselves, our families and our most precious beliefs.
We must not surrender to them! _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
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xmasdale Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1959 Location: South London
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: |
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I agree with you, Venceremos. Unfortunately I think there is a preponderance within the 9/11 Truth Movement of the attitude that EU means the UK government signing away our rights and freedoms to an unaccountable bureacracy in Brussels.
The way things are developing, though, there is a certain logic to what they are saying. Unfortunately I have not found the time to study the new European treaty in order to analyse exactly what powers now lie with Brussels, rather than London, or if there are many meaningful powers that lie in Edinburgh, Cardiff or the Greater London Authority or with my local borough.
However, throughout my life I have watched successive British governments resist moves towards federating Europe, on the grounds that Britain, they claim, is so much more democratic than the rest of Europe. But, if it were democracy (accountability to the people) they were truly concerned about, they would not at every stage of its development have resisted greater powers being given to our elected representatives in the European parliament. They most certainly would not not have opted out of the European Charter of Fundamental Rights. We need these rights enshrined in British law to protect our dwindling liberties.
Now I find myself surrounded by anti-European campaigners who reckon that the European Union and NAAFTA are all part of a plot to take away democratic freedoms and concentrate power in the hands of the few. Creating large units of governance, they maintain, aids this sought after domination and takes us further towards the ultimate goal of a global fascist state. The 9/11 Truth Movement, they argue, should identify with the little englanders who will thereby become receptive to the truth about 9/11.
While they argue that creating large units of governance furthers the global fascist agenda, they also argue in the case of Yugoslavia that that country was broken up by the same forces of darkness, because small units of governance are much easier to control, on the divide and rule principle. They are now maintain it is the same divide and rule principle which is being used in Iraq and soon will be in Iran.
Strikes me, that whatever happens, you will always find someone to argue it is all part of an illuminati plot.
Another principle of federalism which is so frequently not understood is that of "subsidiarity", the notion that decisions should be taken by the smallest competent authority. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity The EU has, I believe, failed to implement that principle sufficiently, largely in order to please commercial pressure groups which stand to gain by standardisation. But the EU has not gone down the road towards centralisation of power, nearly as far as has the Russian Federation, the United States or the United Kingdom.
The people's campaign within the EU should, I believe, be for subsidiarity, essentially demanding more powers to local and regional governments and less to national and continent-wide institutions. Autonomy for all nations and regions within continent-wide and global democratic institutions should be the ultimate goal, but we are a very long way off achieving that.
To those who try to frighten us with the phrase "world government" as the ultimate oppressive institution which threatens, I say "what kind of world government are you talking about?" presumably not the kind I would like to see which would be democratic, answerable to a global electorate. (In fact a useful reform towards that end would be the addition of an elected people's chamber to the structure of the United Nations. Currently the UN does not represent people but governments).
I believe we already have a form of world government. It goes on behind the scenes conducted through networks of the rich and powerful, the upper echelons of the capitalist class. They take decisions about the future of the whole planet and they do so in their own interests: that of profiting from commerce, banking and warfare. The challenge is surely not to spend time resisting "world government" as such because certain global decisions (particularly those of keeping the peace) need to be taken at a global level, but rather of ensuring that the world is governed in the intersts of us, its people, by establishing instruments of world government which are answerable to us, the people, whom those b****** are oppressing.
For my part the only European body I shall be resisting is NATO.
I hope some of these anti-EU campaigners will clarify their views on this thread. |
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Cruise4 Validated Poster
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: 292
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Overall... what a load of inconsequential rollocks.
The EU is a fascist dictatorship and will act accordingly. The British and European Governments, along with most governments around the world are corrupt criminal traitorous liars and murderers. The EU has lied about its agenda from Day 1. National sovereignty is non-negotiable and its the British people who will decide the future of our country, and our European brothers will fight for their countries too, in the end.
Break up the EU completely and the UN and the IMF and the World Bank and the other 1001 methods of control and servitude they are responsible for.
This is War!
Half the people or less telling the rest what to do is NOT democracy. Chinese perspective is NOT English perspective. Cultural difference over homogenity. Global decisions can be taken without centralisation. Money is a racket. The Law is a racket.
ALL government needs reigning in. No councils, No Council Tax, No surveillence, No License fees, No Income tax, No dumbing down of kids, No MI6 drug importing, No 'out of control' immigration, No oil use, No additives, No vaccinations, No invented plagues, No Financial Service industry, No lawyers, No Judges, No courts, Vastly reduced police, vastly reduced army, right to bear arms, No party politics, No lost deposits if a candidate, No media ownership by a few, No secret societies, No prison for non violence, no troop pre-emption, No secret service criminal outfits, No more establishment, no more wars, no more phony rollocks that these people have foisted upon us all.
They want a prison planet, we should and could have a paradise. The EU will begin to lock in the former. We won't rest until we have the latter. |
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spiv Validated Poster
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 483
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: The European Convention on Human Rights...... |
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I've been pursuing a case in the European Court of Human Rights for in excess of seven years on behalf of a client. Without getting into detail, several years ago his wife tragically died, but he has been denied a tax allowance (widow's bereavement allowance) because he is male, whereas had it been he who had died, his wife would have been eligible for this allowance for two years.
Now article 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights states "The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention
shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status". Now I claim my client's case is blatant discrimination on the grounds of gender. There are several cases of the same type travelling through the courts.
See the convention at http://www.echr.coe.int/NR/rdonlyres/D5CC24A7-DC13-4318-B457-5C9014916 D7A/0/EnglishAnglais.pdf
However, despite the UK Government's rhetoric about "Human Rights", the "Human Rights Act" (remember the fanfare when Jack Straw introduced this?), the introduction of much legislation against discimination and so forth, the UK Government have been fighting hard opposing my client's claim. Other cases have gone as far as the House of Lords, so hard has the Government fought them.
Recently the outcome was that the European Court of Human Rights agrees that blocking this tax allowance for men was discrimination, but they refused to award any compensation to these men, yet costs of representation have been awarded (so yes, the lawyers line their pockets!!).
So once again we have the Government saying one thing, which is then trumpeted by the mainstream media as propaganda, but the actual truth is very hidden from the Public's view.
By the way, if you read through that convention, see the link above, you will also, I feel sure, wonder at just how much is being flagrantly ignored when it comes to the restrictions of our rights and freedoms under this fictional "war on terror"!! |
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xmasdale Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1959 Location: South London
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: Re: The European Convention on Human Rights...... |
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spiv wrote: |
By the way, if you read through that convention, see the link above, you will also, I feel sure, wonder at just how much is being flagrantly ignored when it comes to the restrictions of our rights and freedoms under this fictional "war on terror"!! |
Yeah! European and International law, even much UK law, is being flagrently ignored in the interests of the ruling elites. It appears that the informal networks of old boys clubs (the fratriarchy) carry much more weight than do the formal structures of elected political representatation, legislatures and courts of law.
A pamphlet called "The Law of War", by Chris Coverdale of Action Against War, outlines how Britain and other countries are in breach of international law, based on treaties which their governments have signed, and how the courts, lawyers and politicians refuse to do anything about it.
Taken together with Elias Davidsson's pamphlet, The Events of September 11th 2001 and the Right to Truth, we can see how there is enormous scope for using breaches of law by the authorities for campaigning to expose the hypocritical games they play and to end warfare.
Chris's pamphlet can be obtained from either: actionagainstwar.org or laaw.org or peacestrike.org.
Elias's pamphlet can be obtained by e-mailing b.mckenzie@btinternet.com |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I agree with you, Venceremos. Unfortunately I think there is a preponderance within the 9/11 Truth Movement of the attitude that EU means the UK government signing away our rights and freedoms to an unaccountable bureaucracy in Brussels. |
Yes they will, Xmasdale. They are their own worst enemies so hear them but don't be influenced by them. They are as much the product of decades of imperialist brainwashing as are their imperialist rulers. And that goes right across the political spectrum, left, right or whatever.
That's why I call them Little Englanders. They reflect perfectly Goering's prediction in 1940 that within 20 years Britain would be a country "living off the glories of its past."
These Europhobes labour under the misconception that somehow further integration between Britain and the European Union would threaten "their freedoms."
What freedoms?! The freedoms that their own governments, both Tory and Labour alike, have and are taking away from them? The freedoms which the European Charter of Fundamental Rights seeks to protect and which the British Government has opted out of?
Europhobic thinking is, by its very nature of being a phobia, totally upside down and is a close reflection of the Rupert Murdoch line of thought.
It is totally naive to bunch the EU and NAFTA together where the first concerns European interests and the other Washington's. Oh yes, it's very easy to damn them all by talking about Illuminati and the NWO. The NWO I can understand but who the hell are the Illuminati? Nothing more than a nebulous group enabling David Icke to sell his books, now that he seems to have given up on the reptilians!
Xmasdale, these people are nutters! Let them rant on and find your own place as a Briton and a European citizen to fight the fascists both in and outside our government.
Years ago I had the premonition that the day would come when it would be necessary for Britons to defend themselves from their own government and to appeal directly to European institutions to protect their rights. That day has now come and what I am proposing is the creation of networks of British pro-Europeans to defend those interests.
Are you in? If so, please email me directly & we can talk. _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com
http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/
http://x09.eu/splash/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK_FREE_UNIVERSITY/
Last edited by Rory Winter on Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | A pamphlet called "The Law of War", by Chris Coverdale of Action Against War, outlines how Britain and other countries are in breach of international law, based on treaties which their governments have signed, and how the courts, lawyers and politicians refuse to do anything about it. |
Quite. What we are fighting is our own ruling classes who would prefer for us to remain their servile subjects rather than free citizens of Europe.
The proof?
Quote: | However, despite the UK Government's rhetoric about "Human Rights", the "Human Rights Act" (remember the fanfare when Jack Straw introduced this?), the introduction of much legislation against discimination and so forth, the UK Government have been fighting hard opposing my client's claim. Other cases have gone as far as the House of Lords, so hard has the Government fought them. |
_________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com
http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/
http://x09.eu/splash/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK_FREE_UNIVERSITY/ |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Why are Tony Blair and Gordon Brown trying to deny us the Charter of Fundamental Rights?
Spy.blog, 23 June 2007
http://tinyurl.com/27uooz
What with all the media spin by the UK Government and the European Union and the shallow analysis and reporting by the mainstream media, we are puzzled as to what exactly has been agreed at the European Union summit in Brussels this weekend.
We are still especially worried about what exactly Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have agreed to with regard to the European Union Reform Treaty and especially, the legally binding Charter of Fundamental Rights (.pdf) These sort of follow the European Convention on Human Rights and the UK's Human Rights Act 2000:
Article 7 Respect for private and family life
Everyone has the right to respect for his or her private and family life, home and communications.
Article 8 Protection of personal data
1. Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her.
2. Such data must be processed fairly for specified purposes and on the basis of the consent of the person concerned or some other legitimate basis laid down by law. Everyone has the right of access to data which has been collected concerning him or her, and the right to have it rectified.
3. Compliance with these rules shall be subject to control by an independent authority.
However, there are significant differences i,e, there are no explicit exemptions for the Government using vague weasel words like "national security" or "the prevention or detection of crime" or "public health" or "the economic interests of the UK" etc. which so much UK legislation has embedded into it.
Nothing seems to have changed since we commented on this back in 2004: Have the pundits actually bothered to read the EU Constitution ?
See also this confusing BBC background article on Charter of Fundamental Rights
Is there really a workable United Kingdom "opt out" from these clauses ?
If so, then why should we tolerate authoritarian Labour politicians who seek to deny us these human rights, which are enjoyed and legally enforced by the rest of the European Union ?
We demand that these existing human rights are upheld now and ratified by this UK Government and all future ones.
__________
Rory's Comments:
Although this article was published last June the points being made are still highly relevant. The Blair/Brown regime has cunningly cashed in on the innate Europhobia of the British (and in particular the English) by using a wholly unfounded disaffection among Brits for the European Union to exert pressure on other member nations and the Commission in order to extract 'concessions' from the Union, not in the interests of the common people but on behalf of the vested interests of British capital and the ruling classes.
The high level of ignorance and Europhobic prejudice amongst Brits was deliberately nurtured by British politicians and their attendant media in order to use it as a weapon against progressive European social and civil rights.
At the recent meeting at Lisbon, not only did the Brits insist on their right to opt put of the new Charter but went out of their way to water-down the Charter nevertheless. Proof indeed of the mischievous intent of the Brits to act as a reactionary force within the EU working, no doubt, in the interests of Washington's neocons.
The British, along with others on the Right in countries like Poland, are now seen by other Europeans to be a trojan horse for Washington. They play an entirely destructive role as an adversary of the EU. While doing so they ensure that their own people are kept ignorant of the deceptive game they are playing.
Ultimately, it is the British people who will pay the price and that they have now begun to do with Britain's inexorable slide into becoming a full-blown police state. The time has already come when those of us in Britain who consider ourselves to be rightfully citizens of Europe to mobilize ourselves against these tinpot dictators. All is not yet lost and I believe the time has come, as European citizens, to make a direct appeal to the European Union to help us protect our fundamental civil rights against an oppressive, domestic government.
http://tinyurl.com/3dyefr _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com
http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/
http://x09.eu/splash/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK_FREE_UNIVERSITY/ |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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xmasdale Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1959 Location: South London
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting that not many seem interested in this topic. |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:46 am Post subject: Nil Carborundum! |
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Quote: | Interesting that not many seem interested in this topic. |
Yes, I had noticed that too. They seem only interesting in bleating and whining and making entirely negative statements about 'Europe'. Which, of course, is entirely characteristic of the general whingeing attitudes of the Great British Public who whinge and whine about everything, including the weather, and then go back to watching Eastenders.
Anyway, and nothwithstanding the expected apathy, I have launched a Mailing List for those of Pro-European sentiments: those include everything from federalist to decentralist and supporters of European bioregions.
But clearly not a list for the Little Englander whingers!
If you are interested in joining the List please mail me at <greengorilla47(at)googlemail.com> and I will put you on the List and keep you updated. _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com
http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/
http://x09.eu/splash/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK_FREE_UNIVERSITY/ |
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Justin 9/11 Truth Organiser
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 500 Location: Cumbria / Yorkshire Dales
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Ivenceremos wrote:
Quote: | It is totally naive to bunch the EU and NAFTA together where the first concerns European interests and the other Washington's. Oh yes, it's very easy to damn them all by talking about Illuminati and the NWO. The NWO I can understand but who the hell are the Illuminati? Nothing more than a nebulous group enabling David Icke to sell his books, now that he seems to have given up on the reptilians!
Xmasdale, these people are nutters! Let them rant on and find your own place as a Briton and a European citizen to fight the fascists both in and outside our government. |
If you had read David Icke's books properly with an open mind (no, he has not given up on his 'reptilian' research), listened to the wisdom of people like Zulu Shaman Credo Mutwa and other indigenous peoples and understood a little about cutting edge Quantum Physics, you would realise very quickly that humanity has suffered from an unaccountable, unelected and incredibly powerful elite for thousands of years with the 'Illuminati' being an integral part of this 'global conspiracy' since the mid 18th Century.
And if you can't see how the big game plan is unfolding then I really do pity you for your blindness. Large power blocks of countries are being formed - Europe being the first. It started as a trading block of a few countries with the promise that if you improve trade and mutual economic dependence, then you will lessen the chance of another European conflagation. I certainly voted for that back in the 1970s when Britain joined the EEC. But then came Stage 2, the political and monetry union with the Euro. This is clearly designed to break up the larger member countries into smaller units (see what groups like Common Purpose are doing to undermine the foundations and identity of our own country) and before long we will have one very powerful European Government made up from lots of small countries and regions, many of them artificially created.
This process is happening across the globe as semi secret talks steer the appropriate leading countries towards a North America Union and an Asia Pacific Union with a similar but not so effective strategy being implemented within Africa. Don't you find it strange that we have the Euro whilst the NAFTA members Mexico, Canada and the US will shortly be faced with the decision to accept the Amero once the orchestrated demise of the once mighty US Dollar has happened? Only a very stupid person would deny there is a pattern forming - are you stupid Ivenceremos? _________________ Connect to Infinite Consciousness - enjoy the ride! |
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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xmasdale wrote: | Interesting that not many seem interested in this topic. |
People are interested in this topic but speaking personally i have no desire to get involved in yet another never ending row.
As i have stated many times i believe that the European Union is the most evil empire on our planet in many ways worse than the USA.
I will never accept european sovereignty and would rather emigrate or even participate in a UK independance struggle.
Most of the British public at least 75% would like the oportunity to vote for UK independance from Europe.
Ivenceremos makes a number of very good posts but unfortunately also makes some bad ones. This pro USSEU post is one such other previous pro Argentine Facist Junta posts come to mind.
What is so good about being ruled by an unelected politburo comission of failed politicians such as Peter Mandlesohn and Neil Kinnock.
Who like in Orwell's 1984 send out a stream of directives and targets.
The EU is responsible for the starvation of many third world producers blocked from selling goods to the EU by quotas and tarriffs and undercut on the world markets by EU surplus production priced with subsidy so causing third world farmers to lose markets.
Some of you may remember my argument with George Galloway on this very subject.
Surely democracy is the better system?
The EU is a creation of the Rothschild / New World Order.
In terms of examples well look at Norway and Switzerland. Nice countries with good human rights records and both very prosperous. Neither of them is an EU slave and both are doing well.
Switzerland and Norway dont go around the world invading countries or imposing their directives on others.
For someone who is an anti capitalist dont you know the EU is run purely and simply for the benefit of large corporations?
As a person who has NEVER been allowed to vote against Europe i am one of many disenfranchised people in the UK.
On every issue Europe comes out bad. Pollution, health, foreign policy, wealth creation, human rights, democracy, religious freedoms, etc _________________
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | This process is happening across the globe as semi secret talks steer the appropriate leading countries towards a North America Union and an Asia Pacific Union with a similar but not so effective strategy being implemented within Africa. Don't you find it strange that we have the Euro whilst the NAFTA members Mexico, Canada and the US will shortly be faced with the decision to accept the Amero once the orchestrated demise of the once mighty US Dollar has happened? Only a very stupid person would deny there is a pattern forming - are you stupid Ivenceremos? |
Look, for goodness sake don't bring that nutter Icke into it, ok. He made himself a laughing-stock going on about reptilians. The man is just a loony but a clever one who knows how to manipulate gullible audiences and cash in on it.
We can pontificate forever about the growth of power blocs. I don't think you have any concept of the original purposes that many Europeans had for a united Europe. Or of the hopes that many socialists, democrats and greens had for creating a Europe based on social democratic principles which would be a force for good in the world.
Since those headier days the Union has been taken over by the Neocons and the so-called promoters of liberalisation, a hatchet job performed by the Bush cabal and Washington. But instead of just abandoning the whole European project we Eurosocialists will continue the fight within the Union and not outside it.
What other realistic alternative to a European Union would you propose? _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com
http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/
http://x09.eu/splash/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK_FREE_UNIVERSITY/
Last edited by Rory Winter on Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | What is so good about being ruled by an unelected politburo comission of failed politicians such as Peter Mandlesohn and Neil Kinnock. |
Nothing, Stelios, nothing good. But the reason we are still ruled by a Commission as well as by a totallly undemocratic Council of Ministers is because the European Parliament is deliberately kept weak.
The Council of Ministers is chosen by the member states and so they tend to represent national views rather than European ones. They are forever sabotaging legislation which is in the collective interests of the Union as a whole.
One of the reasons the Parliament is weak is precisely because of a high level of ignorance amongst the population of member states as to what is going on and who is running things. If there was more enthusiasm for the European project among apathetic or Europhobic populations then there might be an opportunity to bring more pressure for a strong Parliament.
The European Parliament has been a progressive element all along, especially so in the case of promoting civil and human rights. Compared to it the British government's treatment of those rights has been a calculated attempt to create a police state in this country.
It is a complete reversal of reality to project the blame on the Union when it is our governments who bear the responsibility for the growing police state.
Quote: | On every issue Europe comes out bad. Pollution, health, foreign policy, wealth creation, human rights, democracy, religious freedoms, etc |
That is completely untrue. It is European anti-pollution directives that forced British governments to do something about air and marine pollution around Britain. I have a direct experience of that having campaigned against the UK government on the latter issue in the 'nineties.
Similarly health, foreign policy, the distribution of wealth, human rights (reread my articles about the Charter!), democracy and religious freedoms.
In the reality of things your comment is a preposterous nonsense. _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com
http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/
http://x09.eu/splash/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK_FREE_UNIVERSITY/
Last edited by Rory Winter on Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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¡venceremos! wrote: |
What other realistic alternative to a European Union would you propose? |
Freedom, democracy, self determination.
For a person who argues against colonialism dont you see the obvious juxtaposition? Why do we have to be part of a superstate? _________________
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Freedom, democracy, self determination.
For a person who argues against colonialism dont you see the obvious juxtaposition? Why do we have to be part of a superstate? |
Arguments against colonialism are an entirely separate issue to the European Project which is about the realignment of European countries.
Instead of introducing another red herring try answering the question: what other alternative do you propose?
Compared to anything produced by anti-democratic British governments over several decades, European legislation has provided us with protections that we would not have otherwise had. Two examples of that are in anti-pollution legislation and human rights, the first which the UK government is back-pedalling on and the second withdrawing from.
And then you blame 'Europe'! What a blind refusal to recognize the reality! _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com
http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/
http://x09.eu/splash/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK_FREE_UNIVERSITY/ |
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karlos Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 2516 Location: london
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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The alternative I propose is for the UK to be a free country again. Setting our own laws and running our own affairs. Simple.
UK must become a sovereign nation again.
You telling us that the EU's open skys policy is good for pollution with aviation fuel enjoying zero taxation?
What protection has the EU legislation provided us?
muslims imprisoned without trial
uk fishing industry decimated
uk agriculture on its knees
uk manufacturing all gone
uk taxes highest in history
crime highest ever
drug taking
murder
UK abortions 250,000 every year
i could go on and on but no point really, while there are a few euro slaves left the government will feel justified in continuing to deny the UK public the chance to vote for freedom.
The EU is an evil empire. _________________
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Leiff Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 509
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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¡venceremos! wrote: | BTW, all those who bleat about their human rights being taken away (the right to demonstrate etc) should recall exactly who it is that's taking away those rights!
Not 'Europe' but our own government!
They can't have it both ways. If they object to their human rights being taken away then they should be attacking their government, not 'Europe'!
Duh! |
Quote: | Brussels bulldozes peaceful protest
21-06-2007
The Bulldozer
Four MEPs were threatened with arrest today after Belgian police objected to a peaceful protest outside the European Union summit.
Divisional Commander Pierre Vandernissen said he was "acting on instructions from a higher authority" when he confiscated an inflatable bulldozer and threatened to arrest MEPs Nigel Farage, John Whittaker, Derek Clark and Gerard Batten. When questioned why he was doing it, he answered "because I have the power" and refused to say whether or not it was politically motivated. "I don't have to answer you" he said.
Part of the discussions over the new EU Treaty is the plan to decide Justice and Home Affairs by Qualified Majority Voting and remove the veto which Britain currently has.
The inflatable bulldozer was part of an 11,000 euro display by the Independence and Democracy group attacking EU politicians for their secrecy over the treaty.
On it was written, 'Clearing the way for the EU constitution' and 'don't let them bulldoze the treaty through'.
Within 20 minutes of the bulldozer being inflated, just yards from the entrance to the European Council on the 'Zone of Free Expression', 35 policemen had arrived, switched the generator off and parked their police vans to obscure the view of the world's TV cameras which had been trained on the spot. The inflatable was confiscated and will not be returned until the end of the summit, if then.
The police commander told Mr Farage that "you will go to a cell for 12 hours and then we will sort it out." He later threatened to arrest everyone in the area, including civil servants and members of the press.
UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage slammed the moves by police as "storm trooper tactics."
"I have seen the future of Europe, and I don't like it." said Mr Farage. "It was an outrageous response to what was intended to be a humorous counterpoint to the debate over the future of the continent".
"We have protested all over Europe without a complaint from anybody. This is a deliberate attempt to stifle any objection to the new EU treaty.
"Once again we have seen that the EU don't want to know about concerns people may have. They can't accept that 'no' means 'no' which is why they are holding discussions over this treaty in secret, and they are trying to sneak in parts of the EU Constitution even though the French and Dutch voted against it.
"How Labour, Conservatives and Liberal Democrats can want to hand over more power to these people is, frankly, astonishing." |
¡venceremos! wrote: | It is a complete reversal of reality to project the blame on the Union when it is our governments who bear the responsibility for the growing police state. |
Quote: | UK To Assist Euro ID Card Pilot Project
11 October 2007
Article by Yuban Moodley and Ian Stevens
Eema, the e-business trade association, has announced a new pilot project to develop electronic ID cards that can be used EU-wide. Eema is targeting a 2010 delivery date for the project, to coincide with the coming into force of the EU's eID management framework.
Researchers will be exploring ways to establish secure systems that enable mutual recognition of national electronic ID's by member states. The project, in which the UK Government is set to play a significant part, will also test non-government agents that would be involved in initial registrations, authentication of identities and the supply of the electronic ID cards.
If successful, Eema believe the project should make it easier for citizens to migrate, set up businesses, access health services and purchase properties, although it is not intended to replace passports in the short term.
Among other key challenges to be addressed, the project will need to demonstrate the scalability of the technology and achieve pan-European acceptance of the credibility, quality and sufficiency of the requisite vetting, registration, card issuing and authentication processes across member states.
With identity theft and fraud on the increase, the security of any such pan-European system will be critical, as will liability for breaches.
The recent House of Lords report on Personal Internet Security recommended that, to encourage software and hardware manufacturers to raise security standards, a principle of vendor liability should be introduced at EU level within the IT industry. Such a proposal is strongly opposed by many vendors who argue it would suppress interoperability and innovation. In the context of a pan-European ID card, it also raises the question of who the vendor should owe a duty of care to - just the government purchaser that contracted to buy the relevant software/hardware, or the ID card holding public at large as well? The scope of the potential liability for a breach is enormous. It remains to be seen what stance the EU and member states' governments will take on this in the future.
http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?article_id=53180 |
¡venceremos! wrote: | Ultimately, it is the British people who will pay the price and that they have now begun to do with Britain's inexorable slide into becoming a full-blown police state. The time has already come when those of us in Britain who consider ourselves to be rightfully citizens of Europe to mobilize ourselves against these tinpot dictators. All is not yet lost and I believe the time has come, as European citizens, to make a direct appeal to the European Union to help us protect our fundamental civil rights against an oppressive, domestic government. |
Quote: | "CORPUS JURIS" AND THE EFFECT ON BRITISH COMMON LAW RIGHTS
EU PROPOSALS TO GET POWERS TO ARREST AND DETAIN BRITISH SUBJECTS ON BRITISH SOIL, UNDER THE CONTINENTAL (INQUISITORIAL) SYSTEM OF LAWS
Chris Lees TPUC member.
Britain has a unique system of parliamentary democracy backed by our Common Law. The latter has been adopted, in various forms, by other English speaking nations, notably the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Rep. Ireland and Malta. Our legal system is unique in that it embodies our concept of the individual's freedom (Power of the People as embodied in our Common Law) and makes our laws quite different to those of our friends in Continental Europe. These ancient rights are now under imminent threat from Brussels under a proposal known as 'Corpus Juris' ("CJ").
How our law differs from that of Continental Europe
1. Our Common Law, as far back as 1215 with Magna Carta, states that a citizen can only be judged by his peers (Section 39). These rights protect the individual against arbitrary conviction and imprisonment. Our Common Law recognises several vital rights to the citizen:
• The right of Habeas Corpus (that the accused must be taken to a public court within a very short period of time, usually 24 hours, and the accusers must produce their evidence then and there).
• The right to Trial by Jury at which jurors can in fact even disregard the law if they think it would give an unjust conviction. The jurors are thus 'sovereign'.
• If found innocent, the accused cannot be tried again on the same charge ('double jeopardy').
• In other words our process is 1) suspicion, 2) investigation, 3) arrest, 4), charge.
2. Under the Continental system, known as the Inquisitorial System (often loosely referred to as the Napoleonic system) things are quite different:
• In Europe the sequence of events is 1) suspicion, 2) arrest, 3) investigation and 4) charge. In other words the citizen can be arrested and imprisoned without anyone having to produce any evidence against him. There is therefore:
• No Habeas Corpus so one can be imprisoned for very long periods (weeks, months, occasionally years) without any evidence being produced against you.
• No right to Trial by Jury as their system involves judgements being made by a career judiciary who are the judges and prosecutors and who are, to all intents and purposes, 'colleagues' (a quite separate body of lawyers makes the defence and are often treated as inferiors).
• In most instances the accused can be tried a second time for the same offence, since the prosecution has the right of appeal against acquittal.
What is Corpus Juris?
In April 1997 a seminar was held in San Sebastian, Spain, to discuss a proposal for the 'Criminal protection of the financial interests of the European Union' (CJ) under the auspices of the Directorate General XX of the European Commission. Subsequently there have been numerous attempts at denying that the European Commission has been involved in these proposals and that the meeting was just a non-related discussion group. "The objectives of the seminar were twofold: to seek to call the attention of jurists in general to the need for effective protection of the Community budget, particularly in connection with fraud against subsidies: and to make known the contents of the CJ for protection of these financial interests, which has been conceived as the embryo of a future European Criminal Code"
The proposals aim to:
• Introduce a "single legal area" within the European Union.
• Introduce a European Public Prosecutor ("EPP") with national public prosecutors being "under a duty to assist" him or her (Article 18.5).
• There will be a "Judge of Freedoms" whose function is ostensibly to protect the citizen's rights, which however do not include the right to demand that evidence be produced. This means, of course, that an enforceable arrest warrants can be granted without there actually being any evidence at all, since there is no right to verify it at that stage..
• A European Warrant of arrest shall be issued by a national judge on "instructions" of the EPP, and any police force in any member State can be required to enforce it.
• A suspect can be imprisoned without charge for 6 months, renewable for a further 3 months without any limit to the number of renewals.
• The 'trial' shall be heard by professional judges, specifically without "simple jurors" or "even lay magistrates" (a clear and specific reference to the British trial system where the crucial decisions are taken by ordinary people)
• An accused can be retried on the same charge if found innocent (i.e. the prosecution can appeal against an acquittal).
Can it be imposed on Britain?
• Speaking for the government in Parliament Kate Hoey MP stated that CJ proposals would infringe on civil liberties and could not be introduced into Britain, as the government would veto any such move.
• The House of Lords is the only public body in Britain to have reviewed CJ in detail (See House of Lords, 9th and 19th Reports, 1998/99 session). Some of the findings were:
1. They interviewed two EU representatives who stated that CJ could, and will, be introduced under Article 280 of the Amsterdam Treaty (pages 84 and 85, 9th Report). Article 280 provides for Qualified Majority Voting so Britain will have no veto.
2. Advice from the Law Societies of both England and Scotland stated that CJ was unacceptable
3. In the second House of Lords report, on page 73 Jack Straw, the then Home Secretary, stated that he was unaware of any proposals for the introduction of Justice & Home Affairs measures by Qualified Majority Voting - presumably he never read the earlier report !!!
When may CJ be introduced?
• Basically at any time now that the new European Commission has been established.
• In March 1999 the European Parliament "welcomed CJ" in principle with support from all Britain's MEPs bar two Labour MEPs. Subsequently the Conservative MEPs claimed that they had voted the wrong way by mistake! Presumably the Labour and Lib Dem MEPs meant to support the CJ proposals, although Tony Blair has not yet been asked why his MEPs all flouted his government's stated policy, which is to reject CJ. One of the motions approved stated that CJ could be applied to 'serious crimes', undefined of course, opening the door to CJ being applied to areas outside EU fraud.
• On 11 Sept 99, the 'Wise Men', who had previously revealed fraud in the European Commission, recommended that CJ be introduced in a three step programme – clearly designed to sugar the pill so that the UK will swallow it:
1. Step 1: should just apply to the European Commission and its employees
2. Step 2: establish a Prosecutor's office in each member state to work with the national police & courts
3. Step 3: link the central and peripheral offices and establish a European Prosecutor's office after holding an Intergovernmental Conference which would clearly be to ratify the introduction of CJ
• Mrs Diemut Theato, a German MEP, has asked for the introduction of a European Public Prosecutor to be part of the package of EU Treaty changes discussed in this year's Inter-Governmental Conference.
Can CJ be stopped?
On the face of it – probably not. Britain would have to leave the EU to be sure of avoiding it.
In the short term, we have seen a compromise proposal from Britain, which would introduce the concept of 'mutual recognition' of every EU country's legal decisions by criminal courts. This proposal would remove our Habeas Corpus safeguards and we would accept that a judge in another EU country could order the arrest of a UK citizen on UK soil under their laws, without having to produce any evidence (in fact this situation already exists in the case of extradition within the EU) or any formality whatsoever (it is still possible to produce arguments to resist extradition requests. This last possibility will be eliminated)
As with so much legislation from the EU, CJ is following a well worn path: a secretive start to the proposal, then disclosure by a whistle blower, then government and often EU denials ("it is only a discussion paper" – "nothing to worry about" – "we can stop it anyway"), followed by its introduction into legislation by stealth; and then, when the full horror is revealed, a shrug of the shoulders ("well, it is too late now to do anything")
Initially it may well look innocuous, indeed even desirable. After all, who is going to stand up and say that fraud with the European Commission itself should not be tackled? Once the principle has been accepted then it will be much easier for them to apply it as an overall EU Code of Criminal Law. If CJ is imposed and Britain refuses to accept then the issue will go before the European Court of Justice, which surely will uphold the majority decision to introduce it under Article 280 of the Amsterdam Treaty. (The intention to use this device is confirmed in pp 84-85 of the House of Lords Report, HL 62, HMSP 1999)
http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38 |
_________________ "Democracy is sustained not by public trust but by public scepticism"
George Monbiot |
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xmasdale Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1959 Location: South London
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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¡venceremos! wrote: |
Look, for goodness sake don't bring that nutter Icke into it, ok. He made himself a laughing-stock going on about reptilians. The man is just a loony but a clever one who knows how to manipulate gullible audiences and cash in on it. |
I have more respect for David Icke than that. I believe he is completely sincere and has exposed a lot which has turned out to be true, but I don't accept everything that he says. To my mind this lizard bloodline theory inevitably sounds absurd and is most unwise to persue in political discussion. I need more evidence than some alleged Babylonian tablets written in a language few can decypher and which seem to have disappeared during the sacking of Baghdad.
I also think it is unwise to dismiss others within the movement for truth as "loonies". We all get dismissed as loonies at times. That is a cross we must bear as a price for stepping outsde mainstream public opinon. Imputing to others base motives for expressing their opinions also tends to rebound on us. It tends to divide the movement and to make enemies among those who, if they agreed to differ, could become friends. David Icke has been generous towards the 9/11 truth movement and that does not mean he has been financing it.
As for the term "illuminati" it is very difficult to get a handle on. I know Justin believes that it refers to a very small group of people who are not only rich and powerful, but also tend to intermarry and thereby preserve this alleged reptilian bloodline. I accept that there is a small group of intensely powerful people pulling the strings in their own interests, but that is almost a law of human nature. Unfettered free-market capitalism tends to concentrate power in the hands of increasingly fewer people as time goes on. Whether that in turn is reinforced by a genetic factor due to inbreeding among the ruling classes I really don't know, but I can't rule it out, though it sounds rather like fascistic eugenics arguments.
I am certain that the "old boys" factor operates. People share power with their friends. They set up secret societies and swear oaths of loyalty to each other. The fratriarchy (groups of men who bond together within such secret societies, away from the moderating influence of women) tend to use power in callous ways to further their own strength and comfort. We therefore need to be wary of these men-only networks, eg: freemasons, jesuits, certain Zionist groups, opus dei, Bilderberg, the Trilateral Commission, Alpha Beta Kappa, Council on Foreign Relations, Bohemian Grove and many others. These networks are in place for whatever reason and people have a tendency to use such networks to scratch each other's backs. Inevitably the most powerful people will use them to further their own ends.
But what happens when it comes to organs of governance is that a deal is struck between the rulers, who want power, and the people, who want freedom. Thereafter a struggle ensues for control of such governments between the ruling class trying to intensify its power and ordinary people trying to increase their influence. In a democracy both agree to play by certain rules, but when the ruling class flagrantly disregards those rules, as is currently happening in the drive of the rulers to take over the Middle East, the people become angry and likewise tend towards unlawful means of struggle.
It's worth remembering that no power is ever conceded by the rulers without the people having struggled for it. So if we look at any instrument of governance we find in it both the influence of the rulers and the influence of the people. In dictatorships the influence of the rulers is supreme. In democracies it is less so. [/quote]
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¡venceremos! wrote: |
Since those headier days the Union has been taken over by the Neocons and the so-called promoters of liberalisation, a hatchet job performed by the Bush cabal and Washington. But instead of just abandoning the whole European project we Eurosocialists will continue the fight within the Union and not outside it. |
The power of the rulers in the UK is extremely strong, hand in glove with the US rulers and undermines democratic principles. At every stage they have resisted moves to democratise EU institutions, prefering to keep the EU as an economic arrangement of free-market capitalism and to diminish the tendency within it for people power to be represented. It is a reflection of their anti-democratic aims that they have gained for Britain an opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights. There is no possible gain for the British people to be had from this anti-democratic opt-out. It strengthens the US/UK drive towards a New World Order of increased domination by the rulers and diminished rights and power of the people. This opt-out has certainly not been instigated on the continent of Europe, more likely on the continent of North America. |
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Justin 9/11 Truth Organiser
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 500 Location: Cumbria / Yorkshire Dales
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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¡venceremos wrote:
Quote: | Look, for goodness sake don't bring that nutter Icke into it, ok. He made himself a laughing-stock going on about reptilians. The man is just a loony but a clever one who knows how to manipulate gullible audiences and cash in on it. |
I've known David for twenty years exactly - he lives a humble lifestyle in a one bedroom rented flat (I know - I slept on the settee!). He hasn't cashed in at all, in fact he has been illegally deprived of his royalties for most of his recent books and this has now gone to court in America. Almost on a daily basis he is strapped for cash.
Ivenceremos, or whoever you are, you're a typical ignorant loud mouth who latches on to popular myths and takes the lazy way out by doing no detailed research of your own. Your contributions on this thread are therefore worthless! _________________ Connect to Infinite Consciousness - enjoy the ride! |
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Mark Gobell On Gardening Leave
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 4529
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting thread.
Would be even better if we could keep our emotions in control.
I must admit that the idea of voting to stay in the EU in order to protect our Human Rights threw me somewhat.
I'm always sceptical of reasoning that suggests we wouldn't have benefited from something unless we were in it.
How is this possible to gauge ?
Did we have Human Rights before the EU gave them to us ?
Do we need them ?
Are they not enshrined in UN Charters anyway ?
If Human Rights are so essential then who is to say that campaigning for them from within nation states would not have produced results ? _________________ The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Rory Winter Major Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1107 Location: Free Scotland!
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Did we have Human Rights before the EU gave them to us ? |
No we didn't, Mark. And that's the very point I'm trying to make. Whatever differences of opinion we might have about the way the EU is run (and it would be stupid to accept it uncritically as a monolithic entity) the point is that in it we are citizens not subjects as we are under this ridiculous anachronism of a monarchy.
Citizens have rights, subjects have none.
It is the EU that has given us a Charter of Rights. Before it we had none. The UN Charter is too vague whereas the European Charter has legal teeth and can be used in the European Courts of Justice as it is from time to time by Britons who have been screwed by their own government.
That is one of the major reasons the UK governments dislikes the European Charter. And the recent opt outs show just how the UK Government is working against its subjects and how the EU Charter works in favour of its citizens.
That's why I prefer being a citizen of Europe than a subject of an imperialist, fascist London government which, as a Scot, I reject anyway. _________________ One Planet - One People - One Destiny
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com
http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/
http://x09.eu/splash/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAIALINK_FREE_UNIVERSITY/ |
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