Throw your hats in the ring: London gathering Sat 15th

[ian neal]

9/11 truth campaign gathering, 15th March, London after the stop the war march

After careful consideration I have decided to handover all responsibility for this forum and to step down as co-chair of the campaign at the next AGM (to be held later this year). Also Annie (co-chair), Justin (co-chair), Belinda (treasurer) and Stefan (secretary) have decided to step down from their position within the campaign. So here is the opportunity for anyone who is interested to throw your hats in the ring either to accept full responsibility for this site or to put yourselves forward to co-ordinate the campaign.

Also as many of you know there is a stop the war demonstration from 12pm on Sat 15 March and this seems an opportune time for 9/11 truth campaigners to get together.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/

It is also an opportune time to discuss the future of this forum and the future of the UK 9/11 truth campaign and the UK truth movement in general. If you want to meet up with other 9/11 and truth campaigners in London on Saturday 15 after the march or on Sunday 16, please email me. Although given the short notice and the unlikelihood that all committee members will be able to attend, this will be a general gathering/get together to reflect on where we are and where next including agreeing the process for selecting between candidates should more than one person choose to put themselves forward.

The future of the forum

The original vision for this site was a respectful, free-speech zone in which UK campaigners could share news, ideas and resources and plan action together. From the outset, the driving motivation has been to avoid the in-fighting that has plagued certain sections of the US movement. Unfortunately the inherent weaknesses of public discussion boards (where anyone can register whilst retaining their anonymity) has meant that the nature of discussions and who uses the site has changed over time and are increasingly promoting the very thing the site set out to avoid. Another change that has occurred since the site was set-up has been the growth of social networking sites and blogs as well as higher awareness of the 9/11 truth movement amongst the British public. Finally the ISP charges have increased. Currently I am paying around £70/month in charges.

All of which explains why after careful consideration, I intend to stop paying for the ISP at the end of this month. If someone steps forward who is willing to accept full responsibility for the forum then Simon (SuperAdmin) and I are prepared to hand over the forum to you. Full responsibility means responsibility for paying the bills, hosting, moderating, technical support and any legal responsibility. If you are interested please contact me. Should I receive more than one offer, I will seek to arrange an agreement between the people who approach me. Failing this I will consult other campaigners before proposing a solution. If I receive no such offers, the site will be archived. So if you are interested throw your hat in the ring.

The web address www.nineeleven.co.uk is currently the top UK web address in searches on 9/11 truth. One suggestion is that www.nineeleven.co.uk will be redesigned to become a one page portal or gateway to the wide range of truth sites set up UK activists over recent years, a list to all the top links of truth multi-media, blogs, forums and websites. The campaign website and the address of any new home for this forum will be top of that list.

The future of the campaign

I also intend to step down as co-chair at the next AGM and it is my understanding that Annie and Justin, my fellow co-chairs and Belinda, campaign treasurer also intend to step down. Over the past year or so, 9/11 truth has started to attract quite a lot of media attention. There can be few within politics and the peace/anti-war movement who is unaware of the 9/11 truth movement. Of course much of this coverage was predictably negative, but we have achieved a lot. I had hoped that sufficient people would be provoked by this coverage to look again at 9/11. I thought there would be sufficient people provoked by their opposition to the war and the blatant lies surrounding the war to start questioning 9/11 as well, to look honestly at the evidence and be convinced by it. The evidence already freely available in films like Press for Truth and Loose Change along with the plethora of other books and websites makes such a compelling, self evident case to me that I assumed we would have won far wider and active support by now. We haven’t and this calls for a rethink..

I still believe a popular ‘truth’ inspired awakening and uprising against the fascist global forces is inevitable but believe that if an official campaign for 9/11 truth in this country is to be the catalyst to kick start this truth awakening it will need to be a far more professional and better resourced operation than we are currently able to mobilise. I think such an operation is possible and out of the truth movement the people with the skills, resources and motivation required may emerge. But it is equally possible they won’t. Either way this need not be a problem provided grassroots ‘truth’ inspired activism continues to flourish.

I believe that all of us involved in the British 9/11 truth campaign and British truth campaigning in general would benefit from getting together more and discussing how best we are going to work together to be effective. What works? What lessons have been learnt? How do we move from cyber-activism to ‘real’ activism? What role if any does a ‘central’ campaign play that can’t be performed by autonomous groups and activists?

It is not really for me to suggest what the answers are. I will be retiring from any official involvement in the 9/11 truth campaign whilst continuing to work for its aims. It is for those who feel they have a vision for the future of British 9/11 Truth and motivation and commitment to make it happen, to step forward and throw their hat in the ring. Who takes the campaign forward will be decided by the campaign committee but I suggest that decision is best reached in the light of wider discussions. Discussions which I hope can be started on Sat 15th after STW march and continued beyond. Ultimately it is for the local groups whose representatives make up the committee to decide.

The gathering I propose on Sat 15th or Sunday 16th would be fairly informal and open to anyone (space allowing) although right of admission reserved. The campaign and forum will be discussed but any formal decisions would be taken at the AGM to be held later in the year and following further consultation. If you are interested in coming, please send me an email to me.

If you are interested in taking this forum or the campaign forward please email me or post here (link to forum). Any interest in the campaign will be forwarded to the campaign committee. Finally this is a good time to thank everyone who has worked with me on truth campaigning over this past year and the years before that. I will carry on campaigning but thanks to all those people who have helped us get this far.

Ian

[TonyGosling]

The future of the campaign
by Ian Neal

I intend to step down as co-chair at the next AGM and it is my understanding that Annie and Justin, my fellow co-chairs and Belinda, campaign treasurer also intend to step down. Over the past year or so, 9/11 truth has started to attract quite a lot of media attention. There can be few within politics and the peace/anti-war movement who is unaware of the 9/11 truth movement. Of course much of this coverage was predictably negative, but we have achieved a lot. I had hoped that sufficient people would be provoked by this coverage to look again at 9/11. I thought there would be sufficient people provoked by their opposition to the war and the blatant lies surrounding the war to start questioning 9/11 as well, to look honestly at the evidence and be convinced by it. The evidence already freely available in films like Press for Truth and Loose Change along with the plethora of other books and websites makes such a compelling, self evident case to me that I assumed we would have won far wider and active support by now. We haven’t and this calls for a rethink..

I still believe a popular ‘truth’ inspired awakening and uprising against the fascist global forces is inevitable but believe that if an official campaign for 9/11 truth in this country is to be the catalyst to kick start this truth awakening it will need to be a far more professional and better resourced operation than we are currently able to mobilise. I think such an operation is possible and out of the truth movement the people with the skills, resources and motivation required may emerge. But it is equally possible they won’t. Either way this need not be a problem provided grassroots ‘truth’ inspired activism continues to flourish.

I believe that all of us involved in the British 9/11 truth campaign and British truth campaigning in general would benefit from getting together more and discussing how best we are going to work together to be effective. What works? What lessons have been learnt? How do we move from cyber-activism to ‘real’ activism? What role if any does a ‘central’ campaign play that can’t be performed by autonomous groups and activists?

Ian

[outsider]

See under 'Campaigning' on our Forum: this is shattering news.

[acrobat74]

Ian's original post is here (under 'Campaigning'):
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=13874

There's a bit about the future of the forum as well:

[scubadiver]

The 9/11 critics and the stuff like NPT etc etc is producing a lot of negativity that is affecting the campaign

I will pose a controversial suggestion: Should the forum be scrapped?

[acrobat74]

[Thermate911]

Well, thank you for all you have done, Ian. This is without doubt the most balanced 9/11 site presently extant. Contrary to scubadiver's reactionary suggestion, scrapping this forum would lead to many critics enhancing the derision factor, IMO.

[Anthony Lawson]

Well done!

Ian: Whatever our differences, you’ve given it your best shot, and you should not be dissatisfied with the results. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to be involved in this important work.

A lot of things will be said and written about whether the 9/11 Truth Movement will ever achieve what, from time to time, it so tantalisingly appears to promise, but if it were not for people like you so many of us may not have had the possibility to do something constructive. To those who have, on the other hand, been destructive, I’ll leave them with this thought:

[xmasdale]

I am very sorry to hear, Ian, that you Justin, Annie, Belinda and Stefan are all standing down. That leaves a core committee of Anthony Beckett and Andy Baker - plust the wider committee of one representative from each local group. I believe we should regard this as an opportunity for more people to come forward to lead a new phase of our development, rather than any sense of failure.

Unlike you, Ian, I am not disappointed by our rate of progress; it has been faster growth than I had expected. At the very least more of the same from us will make further progress, though we should be looking too at further ways to communicate to the public. I agree that this website forum, though it is not an official site of the British 9/11 Truth Campaign, is in many ways damaging and therefore I have largely stopped posting on it or indeed reading it. For the campaign to flourish it needs to be more distinctly seperate from the campaign. Announcements of our events should go somewhere other than here, presumably on a revamped http://www.911truthcampaign.net/ . I think that this forum should be retained in some form or other as it has built up a community.

I understand Arjen in Amsterdam has offered to host our website(s) for free. I shall e-mail him to confirm that.

The recent European 9/11 Truth gathering in Amsterdam with a huge delegation from Britain present has demostrated the vigour of the campaign in this country. I am sure we are in a strong position to make further progress. I've just been watching a video of me being interviewed in January of last year, saying that I hoped that in 2007 we would achieve a situation in which everyone had heard of and had an opinion about our campaign. I think we have now achieved that within in the peace/anti-war movement though not within the mainstream media.

Anyway, I'm up for meeting this weekend to discuss both the furture of the forum and of the campaign. I hope we have plans to do something at or around the Stop the War demo, but so far have heard of no definite plans.

Noel

[TonyGosling]

The explanation, so far as I can gather, is that Belinda, Ian and Annie etc have decided to spend their time on something new called 'the campaign to make war history'. I imagine it will be like the long existing 'Campaign for the Abolition of War' which came out of theradical end of CND but with a '9/11 Truth' slant. Am I right?

I find it strange Outsider, that you didn't know about this coming, my excuse is I wasn't in Amsterdam and I'm not in London.

[spiv]

I was in Amsterdam, last Sunday afternoon, when a group of us took the decision to form a European movement to "make wars history". There is a very compelling case to lodge criminal complaints against our Government leaders (amongst others) and for the police to be made to investigate these leaders for war crimes and crimes against humanity, as per our sovereign laws and treaties.

However, 911 is not being lost or forgotten. Indeed, quite the contrary, because it was 911 which was the trigger for the creation of the illegal wars we currently have in Iraq and Afghanistan, and, of course, the so called "war on terror", fiction though that is.

So this is a way of creating awareness amongst the populace of not only the lies of 911, but the lies which sprang from 911, and the resultant criminal actions of our leaders. It is another attack on "the other flank", so to speak, and one which I absolutely support.

[Thermate911]

[Sixy]

Ian, I just wanted to say thank you for everything you have done for the campaign and movement ..... and taking on this forum!!

I'd also like to pass on my thanks to Annie, Justin, Belinda and Stefan.

All of you have worked so hard for the campaign over the years and it's been a pleasure to meet you.

I totally understand reasons for you to be stepping down and wish you all the best for the future.

Happy futures ..... and once again, thank you!!

Lou

[Snowygrouch]

Eh?!?!?!

This is all very much news to me; and also a bit of a shocker.

What exactly was the point in 45 odd people from all over europe meeting to decide to throw in the towel?

A phone call would have sufficed!

I would agree that the campaigns progress thus far has been short of expectations but I would say it has been far and away above a failure....

We have all known for YEARS what needed to be done to run a professional campaign and for reasons beyond my cerebrum it didnt occur. I`m far from pleased by this.

Call me a stick in the mud but reading the post from Ian and co the story could be summarised roughly as follows.

1: "We know what to do but wont/cant/shant do it"

2: "oh look it didnt work beause we didnt do it"

3: "I give up and run back to mother"

Am I being unfair? Probably.

If life fair? No.

Does this development all sound like a right royal load of * nonsense? Yes.

I DO wholeheartedly agree that the Make War History idea is a huge development and must be supported to the max...but I WAS under the vague impression from Amsterdam that we would be supporting it not throwing in the towel etc...

We`ve just got two fairly promenant world politicians TOTALLY on board with 9.11 campaigning; meet them in Amsterdam and THEN say its all a waste of time??!?!?!?!?

What the FK!?!?!?

Anyway; sorry I`m rather pissed at totally wasting a weekend and £200 when I could have been studying for my exams. But whatever.

Calum Douglas
Oxford 9.11 (or should that be "Oxford NOT 9.11")

[outsider]

[outsider]

[marky 54]

[TonyGosling]

Just spoke to Ian and I'm happy to take over the running costs of this forum, at least for six months then maybe we can look at a publishing co-op owned by some of the the non-shill posters and mods? There are all sorts of directions it might take.

There are one or two people who want it shut down for good but I don't think that'll happen simply because of all the time and effort you lot have put in to make it what it is cannot be put on ice or thrown away.

We'll probably move over to a new domain with the old domain redirecting here for a few months. Onward for peace and freedom if we can get our collective acts together!

try this for instance

http://www.spies4peace.org.uk

[scubadiver]

[astro3]

When Webster Tarpley came over last year he said at the start of his talk, that the London group was probably the most credible 9/11 group anywhere - so let's not underestimate what is being and has been achieved.

Looking into my crystal ball, the 'Make War History' movement does not necessarily have a future. Its very exciting at the moment, because Simon and Rob got the PC at Marylebone Court to take down evidence and give them a case number. When I went to the Belgravia police station with Chris Coverdale, Rob & Simon the officers were 'taking evidence' from them - and begged Chris not to go ahead with a citizen's arrest of some lawyer at that time - which he did, and I gather (but let's hope I'm wrong) that they will not now be taking the matter any further. Chris C. can have quite a confrontational and inflexible manner and he broke up 'Legal Action Against War' (LAAW) which he had been running with James Thring (a member of our 9/11 group). He ran it himself as 'Action Against War.' LAAW had been advising 'Stop the War' on legal matters so I felt that was a pity.

The UK Government will never deliberately or intentionally pass a law that will inhibit its ability to make war. It passed the International Criminal Court Act 2001, and the prescriptions of that Act concerning genocide may have been intended in relation to African states etc. Now, I reckon that Chris C's arguments concerning how the relevant sections apply in relation to the Iraq war, are valid, but its quite a subtle argument - I'm just pointing that out. I am saying that Chris's grasp of the UK's ICC Act is potentially very important. Put it this way: the Powers of Darkness are happy with all sorts of fine-sounding international laws that limit or prohibit war eg the Nuremberg Principles or the Geneva Protocols, but won't enact a UK domestic law that enables any UK minister to be prosecuted thereby. Normally, year after year and decade after decade peace activists try to use these obviously-relevant laws to justify their protests, and are dismissed and 'fail' in their arguments in that no court will hear them.

There was one brilliant exception, when the Ploughshares women walked free from Liverpool Crown Court after a week's trial, after smashing up some Hawk jets bound for East Timor. That was a lady called Angie Zelter, who really knew her legal arguments. But that could not happen now, because of all the anti-terror laws.

Obviously we'd all like to see Blair and his Cabinet tried for planning and preparing a war of agression, but that ain't going to happen. I urge our now-resigning members to think hard about whether this new cause will really get somewhere before leaving the 9/11 group. Also forgive me for mentioning that Chris C. has no legal qualifications. Lawyers are the very hardest thing for the peace movement to get hold of, they're like gold dust if one can be found who will work for the peace movement. The only one I'm aware of in the UK is Phil Shiner who runs PeaceRights up in Birmingham. He produced a most impressive dossier which was submitted to Mr Ocampo, Chief Prosecutor at the ICC, the International Criminal Court at the Hague. But in the end, nothing is done with that document - that's the point. Over a hundred nations have signed the Rome Statute of the ICC, and we must all agree with Chris that its section 58 'Genocide, Crimes Against Humanity and War crimes' is the essential modern basis in trying to delegitimise war. By the way, Phil Shiner cleaned out CND with his 80k bill after their High Court case prior to the Iraq war - real lawyers aren't cheap! Did CND achieve anything with that case?* I just don't want our retiring-committee group to have too high or illusory expectations of what they might be able to accomplish. The New World Order doesn't give a toss about international law in relation to war.


* Hard to say, really. I co-edited the text of their arguments, The Case against War, The essential legal Inquiries, Opinions and Judgements concerning War in Iraq published by Spokesman 2003.

[acrobat74]

[Annie]

[chrisc]

[TonyGosling]

That was getting confusing - two threads with the same headline so I merged them. As a result Ian's bombshell (no, I knew nothing about this) has moved fully over from campaigning.

There have been some excellent proposals on here and I'm glad to see there's a solid consensus to keep this bit of territory for freedom of expression.

There are some pressures behind the scenes to close down this site. I trust Ian knows all about that and agrees that it would be a betrayal of our registered users.

I don't want to congratulate 'the committee that only met once', because that would be too 'media luvvie' for me................... but I will do anyway so thanks for all wot you've all done! Which is actually shedloads. People get burnt out, pissed off and it has been a high pressure/temperature campaign to say the least.

Actually we've achieved quite a bit of awareness raising through internet and face-to-face activism (come on it's not a competition) even maybe enough, with a bit of God's help, to have helped wake hundreds of thousands of people up.

Which is not bad for such a rough and ready (well except Belinda and Annie) bunch as us

[Snowygrouch]

Hi Annie,
Well it was my typically "corrosively worded" post I suppose; perhaps I`ve over reacted or misinterpreted the situation but it just all seemed very odd to make such an announcement a week after such massive groundbreaking developments occur. Nobody even hinted at any such thing being even in the pipeline while I was in Amsterdam. Belinda had just sent out means to donate to the campaign and I understood had actually hired someone to help with various antiwar/911 campaign organization. I just have a slightly hard time correlating that with deciding you`ve had enough of being "in charge". Perhaps the fact I had to leave Amsterdam early has cut me 'out the loop' to a dangerous extent?

What with the central position of "The highgate house" as a focal point for meeting and organization of the usual escapades; I see standing down as being a bit more of an issue for us than simply 'handing the torch to the next person in line.'

I would find it very useful if the persons involved could be so kind as to PM me and lay out exacty what went on when this descision was taken and why they are standing down. That would be of considerable comfort to be party to.

While I certainly agree "waste of £200" was a bit strong, I would really like to have it explained to me what these descisions mean in practise for the campaign.

Cheerio

Calum

[andyb]

in practise it means that you can run for office

[Snowygrouch]

Are we using an electronic ballot?

[andyb]

yep, got diebold coming in to oversee proceedings

[Snowygrouch]

sweet

[xmasdale]