Politicking putting this forum & campaign at risk

TonyGosling · Last edited by TonyGosling on Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:16 pm; edited 2 times in total

A month ago we held a meeting at Belinda's on the evening of the London Stop The War march where Simon Aronowitz announced he will be withdrawing the nineeleven.co.uk domain name from this site on 15th June 2008 because he doesn't like the way it's going.

As editor I never had any communication from Simon that he was unhappy with my style of moderation. It was a blow to hear that he was effectively knobbling this site's google ratings and web connectivity as many hundreds of sites link to the nineeleven.co.uk domain.

At that meeting a consensus emerged to move the site to a new domain within a month. To give plenty of time for search engines and users to adjust that should have been set in train by Ian Neal, the only person who can do it, by the end of this week but it has not.

Ian Neal has decided to delay until the issue of the (consortia X editted IN) bid to take ownership of this site has been resolved. That will take many weeks or months because unless I am included in the new 'regime' I will contest their 'takeover bid'. People may remember I was given a probation last year and the site should have passed to me by February 2008. The (consortia X editted IN) takeover would mean a new system of anonymous moderators which will drastically reduce this site's accountability and credibility in the eyes of journalists and public alike.

The delay in moving domains is a disaster for this forum and its users but I have had no response to repeated phone calls, texts and Private Messages to Ian Neal over the last two days.

What I am faced with is a re-run of the Andrew Johnson episode last year with Ian Neal is entertaining secret complaints about me which have not been run past me and reversing decisions without telling me. A diabolical, bullying management style.

I have been given no opportunity to defend my actions. After the time and effort (2-3 hours a day) I've put in to keep this site looking relatively credible to journalists and anyone interested in 911, 7/7 and the War on Freedom over the last year or so I am honestly appauled at being treated in such a sneaky, underhand way.

There is common decency and there are also rules on this forum which have been put together by Justin, Ian and myself which have simply been ignored in a cult-like MI5 tactic whispering campaign against me.

Thankfully some people central to this campaign don't want decisions to be made in this fashion and have told me what's going on. Ian's reluctance to pick up the phone begins to make sense.

Faced with a wall of silence over the last two crucial days I am reluctantly resorting to informing forum users of the fashion in which meetings are being circumvented, by private networking and I hope Ian will give a full public explanation of his inaction now, specifically on not moving to the new domain this week, which is putting the movement, and the goodwill of all the genuine people who post here in jeopardy.

After that central issue has been addressed I would appreciate a full account of why he considers my stewardship a failure.

Gerald Bostock · Banned Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 22

It is said that actions speak louder than words. I guess inactions do likewise.

ian neal · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject:

I answered your text and PM by email to you tonight and yesterday evening. Here is yesterday's email

TonyGosling · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject:

Ian,

You are mixing up two different issues

1. the domain move which is now extremely urgent
2. the competition which may or may not happen over the coming weeks for ownership of this database of content.

No texts, PMs or phone calls recieved here. Just got an acknowledgement of your switching on your mobile at about 9pm this evening with no reply. How much easier iof you had replied - and it sounds like you're denying that you have been making judgements about my abilities and keping me out of the loop.

Do I take it that (X) have vetoed the domain move?

Anyway, please answer the question straight.

If it's not in Keith's minutes then they are not an accurate record. You were there.

Have you initiated the domain move as agreed or not?

If not why not?

ian neal · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:08 am Post subject:

In answer to your questions

TonyGosling · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: dog's dinner

TonyGosling · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject:

One apparently ignored option which I put forward would circumvent a 'private decision of the (non-existant) committee'.

That is to duplicate the database and hand it over to both the existing team and the new WY group.

as took place here
http://sf.indymedia.org/
http://www.indybay.org/

Then we'd have both a pro and anti alien version of ths forum and everyone would be happy.

It would also save a lot of wasted time and energy. And there would be no grist to Larry O'Hara's 911 Cult Watch mill.

Whatever happens - the domain must be moved right now Ian.

Rory Winter · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject:

TonyGosling · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject:

Here he is, like a bad penny. Yes, I know how much you lobby Ian Rory behind the scenes.

As you know, if I'd had my way you'd have been banned from disrupting EU posts this site a long long time ago becuase of your obsessive & disruptive support for the fascist EU, sucessfully knobbling almost all discussion of it here... and other stuff I can't be bothered to drag up under your previous incarnation, Vencemeros.

Every further minute of Ian's inaction is a betrayal of last month's face to face meeting and more mildew on the connectivity of this site.

ian neal · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: dog's dinner

Right I will answer these questions and then I really really strongly advice to sort out the rest out in private and then lock this thread. If after it is resolved you are not happy you can of course put your account in the public domain. My friendly advice which you are free to ignore

TonyGosling · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: dog's dinner

Ian you have no right to stifle this discussion.

When and where is this full meeting of the remains of the committee taking place? I certainly haven't received an invite (unless its on email which I only check about twice a week).
One of the main problems of the committee (apart from the fact that it never meets) is that it only ever seems to discuss this forum which is not an official campaign forum anyway Wink

What a bore.
I notice you also added the word 'secret' into the 'decision of the committee' description. You really are inviting Larry O'Hara to have a field-day with this campaign. I suppose we will all be meeting under Chatham House rules too? Rolling Eyes

You are trying to act as judge and jury exonerating yourself for what is (if you don't get your finger out) a potentially disasterous decision which YOU, not those who met last month, have made.

You have brought a public discussion of this on yourself firstly because you don't trust me and secondly because, rather than listening to common sense and reason you are trying to dig yourself in to defend a rash decision you have made. Your inaction, in this case, is a decision in itself.

We all agreed, whether Keith wrote it down or not, that the domain would be transferred no later that ONE MONTH after the date of the meeting to give migration time. The redirect should be starting NOW because Simon is pulling the domain on June 15th 2008.

Anyone who understands how the internet works knows how important it is to make this domain move without delay.

If you want I can transfer the ownership of www.911forum.org.uk to you immediately then you can get moving.

I am looking out for the best for this community and you are being a stick-in-the mud. It's really ugly that it has come to this to get you to

1. listen
2. act for the forum rather than your own reputation
3. do what you said you'd do

And finally....
there is no need to have a 'competition for the forum and a secret decision of the committee'. If we have two or even three competing groups wanting to take the forum in different directions they can ALL do that. There is no need for the database of posts to only go to one group it can go to them ALL.

ian neal · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:

Basically what you are asking me to do (transfer the site to a new domain along with the codes to manage and moderate the site) is the end of the process.

Whichever individual or entity owns the domain and pocesses the passwords is the one in control of the site.

I will do this as soon as the committee is agreed on these details. I have set out the details of this process which has all been clear and transparent and if needs be I can produce the emails to demonstrate this.

But let's rewind. Clearly you are unhappy with the process: who should make this decision and how it should be made. This is despite me spelling it out several times and giving you and others the time and opportunity to object and propose alternatives.

Well tell you what. You make a proposal. You tell me what you think would be a fair and transparent way of doing this (in the 6 weeks that remain before June 15) so the decision best reflects the opinion of 9/11 truth campaigners in the UK and I will consider it. But do it quckly or otherwise it goes to a vote after next Friday (as stated in yesterday's email revising the timetable to give you and consortia x more time to consider IF you want to propose an agreed joint proposal)

But basically there will be no transfer unless there is this agreement or vote that reflects the wider will of 9/11 UK campaigners.

Your suggestion of 3 or 4 multiple copies of this site flying around the internet is a non-starter I suggest, but if you feel otherwise put this proposal in writing to the committee. In affect the third choice currently on the table (after yours and 'consortia X's) to freeze the site and keep it as a public archive on a holding page here with links to other 911 / 'truth' forums and an open invitation to people to go off set up their own forums/blogs/news portals/whatever as they see fit is very similar.

TonyGosling · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject:

No Ian it's not.

The domain name is a Domain Name Server (DNS) 'signpost' which Simon has decided to 'point away' from your server on 15th June. You will continue to control the content of the site because you are paying the ISP.

As I suggested the fairest and by far the least time-wasting way out of this minor maelstrom is for 'consortia X' (edit IN: STOP PUTTING THEIR IDENTITY IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN) to register their own preferred domain name to replace www.nineeleven.co.uk.

Their new ISP can then copy the database. We'd then have two versions of this forum on the web one would be mine and one would be theirs. People can then choose which editorial mission statement they prefer, they might even re-register with both.

Then you're shot of it!

But please please please talk to your ISP straight away about the domain move NOW and let me know the nameservers and I'll set them up on www.911forum.org.uk.

You may have noticed I have already configured www.911forum.org.uk to point to the forum at my end. If you type it into your browser you get this site. See this for example.

http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewforum.php?f=10

This sort of difficulty between editors (me) and managers (you) goes back as long as printing itself.

ian neal · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:48 am Post subject:

Should I assume that this is in essense is your final proposal?

That you won't be looking further at whether you and 'consortia X' can work together.

That your proposal is that the site is copied to two sites on two URL's with 2 different managements.

If so, we can cut to the chase and see if this has the support of the committee.

I suspect you won't be happy with this last bit. But there are basically 3 ways to make this decision

Either

1) I make it in consultation with Simon
2) The committee makes it or
3) You make an alternative suggestion as to how the decision is made.

Any proposal you make will need to attempt to reflect the will of 911 truth campaigners in this country or I will veto it.

Best wishes

Ian

Keith Mothersson · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: Meeting of March 15

Hi Tony

As the chair and minutes taker on March 15th, I disagree with your assessment that we all agreed that the Domain Name transfer stuff was going to happen within a month i.e. with 8 weeks transition time.

ianrcrane · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: Sabateurs at work?

One copy of the forum content should be given to Tony to continue administering through www.911forum.org.uk .

Tony has proven his competence as lead moderator of this forum; his integrity and motivation for volunteering to take on this role is beyond reproach.

Any other proposals should be considered as a potential parallel version of the forum ... but my vote goes with Tony.

Ian R. Crane

ianrcrane · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject:

Keith wrote:

paul wright · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject:

Ian, I composed a pm to you but decided not to send it
Like me, go with the flow is all I can suggest

ian neal · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: Sabateurs at work?

Rory Winter · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject:

Mick Meaney · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:15 am Post subject:

If my understanding of the situation is correct then no action will be taken until all 41 names have viewed both proposals and voted for their prefered.

It seems voting has begun before we've seen the WY proposal... ?

Lets not allow personal feelings to cloud the decision making, everyone wants the same thing even if we disagree about how we get there.

xmasdale · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:03 am Post subject:

One piece of misinformation which needs clarifying is the allegation that the committee has already resigned. The Campaign committee consists of eight directly elected officers plus one representative from each local group. My understanding is that Morgan Stack, who represented Ireland as a vice-chair, is the only member who has resigned and did so when campaigners in Ireland decided to go independent of Britain. May they have all the luck of the Irish!

The other seven officers have merely announced their intention to resign at the next AGM, scheduled for Sunday 6th July in Bristol. Until then all the remaining seven remain in post, as do the 30 or so representatives of each group.

Though this forum is not part of the British 9/11 Truth Campaign, many of us use it. It therefore seemed to be the most representative way to decide what happens to this forum to consult the campaign committee. A decision to do so was taken by a meeting of around 20 people held in London last month.

I believe that the best thing to do is to agree in advance that we shall abide by the decision of the committee once they have voted on the options presented to them. To go back on the decision taken last month to proceed in this way will merely create chaos.

Let's take a calm, rational decision collectively.

Peaceful and truthful wishes to all.

Noel

Rory Winter · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:22 am Post subject:

If the status quo remains as it is, there is a strong chance that the Scottish Group would consider seceding.

After the treatment I have received recently there is no way that I shall remain on this Forum under constant threat of banning simply due to an ideological difference with the Administrator ... something which has nothing whatsoever to do with 911 except in the tortuous thinking of certain individuals.

I am saddened how far from the subject we have strayed but that's what happens on a forum. A forum, however, should be policed lightly and that, alas, has not been happening. People like myself have fallen foul of ideological apartheid and that should never have happened.

Pikey · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject:

TonyGosling · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Meeting of March 15

andyb · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject:

Tony, it is time to wake up and see how much this site has gone downhill under your command. There used to be loads of posts every day but now this has gone down to single figures. Many regulars have left. You let your beliefs get in the way and that is no way to run a form. You call yourself the Editor, yet forums do not have editors. You have started PM'ing users complaining of some sort of conspiracy against you. As a member of the comittee I have unfortunately had to receive far too many complaints about the way you run the forum. You took a unilateral decision on the new domain name and forum and this is not how democracy works. The NeoCons at leats allow an election, even if they do fix it.

Busker · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject:

TonyGosling · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject:

I'm trying to remember, were you there at the end of the meeting when we discussed the swapping over in a month or not?

The site has gone up and down in density and quality depending largely on current affairs getting very busy during the Glasgow Terror plot etc. We've also almost entirely got rid of the kookie stuff which plagued the front page. Of course it could be better but that requires your input advising me what you do or don't want me to do.

I disagree with you, this IS one of the best 911 sites in the world and remains so. It' so good to see the likes of Rick Segal saying so.

For example, we're in a difficult situation as a movement with Nick K being accused of holocaust denial by Rachel North just after I institute a 'get tough' policy on the holocaust, urged on me by users. I decided to make an exeption to the rule otherwise we would be censoring this crucial debate. It's only by taking my own prejudices out of the equation that this space can thrive but I do need people to PM me at the very least if they think I am being prejudiced. It's no good just moaning about me behind my back down the pub.

My quibble is that whilst people may well have legitimate grievances they have not run hardly any of them past me. I'm happy to be self-critical Andy and I'm happy to hand over if there is a due process rather than a witchhunt. I need to be confident that the forum's in safe hands.

If there turn out to be two 'camps' then it would make sense to let them go off amicably in their seperate directions rather than have a battle over the forum. For example the believers in aliens and the non-believers (I am the former). However it pans out.

I'm a very good listener and two months or so ago circulated Ian, Justin and several others asking if they had any comments on how my moderation should be improved reply zilch. I also PMd Noel asking him if he wanted a private chat about our differences, again zilch.

You say I'm not but I am the editor since I have appointed and have been responsible for a 'stable' of moderators. I also have a 'manager' Ian whos paying the bills but Ian maybe doesn't recall this short discussion where there were nods around he room and affirmation that the domain name shift has to happen after a month so we don't end up having the domain pulled out from under us with nobody knowing where the forum is.

Fran Scott
Ian Neal
James Robinson
John White
Mick Meaney
Paul Wright
Caz - runs the war on children section
Moheen Yaseen - Jihad for peace
and Keith Mothersson who, in turn, has appointed three more moderators o the scottish section

I think they're a bloody good honest and reliable team and would back them to the ends of the earth. I know Belinda and Moheen don't get on but I don't play favourites, just select people I think are politicaly astute enough for the job.

BTW, this is a lie.

chrisc · Validated Poster Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 154

chrisc · Validated Poster Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 154

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