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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: 'Screw' 'Loose Change Final Cut'? |
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| Is this in the 'pipeline'? I unerstand LCFC only deals in verified facts and not speculation so it will likely be a challenge to the official story fundermentalist zealot 'screw people'. |
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Alex_V
Wrecker
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: 'Screw' 'Loose Change Final Cut'? |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | Is this in the 'pipeline'? I unerstand LCFC only deals in verified facts and not speculation so it will likely be a challenge to the official story fundermentalist zealot 'screw people'. |
I'm not sure there will be one - the response to it seems to have been so muted that I wonder whether it's required. It's also hard to see it - I have downloaded part of it, but obviously I don't want to support LC by paying for it. There is a slowly growing thread on JREF on its mistakes...
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=98603
I would prefer to see the Zeitgeist film properly investigated - it is full of spurious nonsense and seems to be doing very well on streaming website polls, so perhaps it would be a better target. |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ...Is it also the truth that the '9/11 official story (latest version that day) fundermentalist zealot screw people' have ALWAYS ducked Loose Change's challenge to a public debate on 9/11? chickenhawks like their paymasters? |
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pepik
Banned
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm really surprised you are trying to promote LC at all, their films were embarassing, the filmakers themselves have admitted the research was nonsense, and they are slowly slipping into obscurity.
Did you know that Korey Rowe was in the military and Dylan originally intended the film to be fictional?
Looks like a cointelpro project, can you prove it isn't?
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"could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section. |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm sure Woodward and Bernstein(Watergate investigative journos, kids)followed some false leads en route to nailing Nixon, one day the Loose change trio will have a statue next to Lincoln's in Washington for services to the principles of the founding fathers. |
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Jonnolad
Minor Poster
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | ...Is it also the truth that the '9/11 official story (latest version that day) fundermentalist zealot screw people' have ALWAYS ducked Loose Change's challenge to a public debate on 9/11? chickenhawks like their paymasters? |
Really - where was the challenge and where was it refused? I'd happily take part, if it was close of course. I'm obviously not traveling half way round the world to have a debate with people who have catagorically and consistantly been shown to misquote / mislead etc. If it was local-ish though I'd happily go.
Incidentally when you say '9/11 official story (latest version that day) fundermentalist zealot screw people', I'm wondering how you think the official story has changed much (if at all); terrorists took over and then flew planes into various locations. How has that changed? |
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Jonnolad
Minor Poster
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | I'm sure Woodward and Bernstein(Watergate investigative journos, kids)followed some false leads en route to nailing Nixon, one day the Loose change trio will have a statue next to Lincoln's in Washington for services to the principles of the founding fathers. |
The massive difference between Woodward and Bernstein and the Loose Change trio is Woodward and Bernstein were real journalists who conducted real investigations to uncover real evidence.
Where is any real evidence that the Loose change trio have uncovered of a conspiracy? Have they found any - if so what is it? |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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GOLLY! the web is full up with people WHO KNOW the official 9/11 Zelikow ministry of truth narrative is cast iron 'gospel'!!! why do they spend sooo much time on us poor deluded folk? I don't think anyone but the 9/11 guilty know the definitive 9/11 truth, they won't have a proper open independent enquiry and the falsely acused won't take their false accusers to litigation, another one that leaves me in a quandry.Methinks these net official story 'defenders of the faith' doth protest too much!
Originally we were told there were NO films or photos of whatever made that tiny hole through three rings of the Pentagon 9/11 then when Meyssan started sniffing around, the official story changed to 'oh there are these four frames with the wrong time and date on' then when Judicial watch demanded to see ALL the CCTV security and FBI confiscated film of something impacting the Pentgon under FOI the official story changed to 'oh there is this blurry fish eyed lense film'. Is this not an example of the official story changing? and which of these official stories to you subscribe to? they can all be lies mathematically but they can't all be the truth.
And "real Journalists"?1?... what does that mean? they were picked of the 'real journalist tree' by the owner of the Washington Post? The film 'All the presidents men'shows them following several false leads.
Loose change showed us evidence that the US authorities lied about there being no films or photos of whatever pierced that small hole through 3 rings of the Pentagon and evidence that F77's blackbox recorder's data on the plane's trajectory conficted with the official Pentagon lampoles KO trajectory account.
Last edited by SHERITON HOTEL on Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pepik
Banned
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I really find the comparison to Woodward astonishing. The one thing you will notice in a debate with the loose change filmakers (e.g. vs popular mechanics) is that after so many years, for questions like "did you speak to any of the witnesses" or "have you asked a structural engineer" the answer is always "uhhh... we're just asking questions".
Comparing that to journalists who busted their asses tracking down every lead, in a pre internet, pre email, pre mobile phone world where that kind of investigation was a huge undertaking.
_________________
"could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section. |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you have any actual physical medical evidence of Woodward and Bernstein busting their asses? One persons 'investigative journalist' is another persons 'meddlin' kid' it's all subjective judgement. |
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pepik
Banned
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Is that a joke or are you really that ignorant?
Actually there is a certain, perfect irony in a question that stupid. You are too lazy to get off your own ass to find out if someone else has ever done any real work.
Perfect.
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"could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section. |
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James C
Major Poster
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1046
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| pepik wrote: | Is that a joke or are you really that ignorant?
Actually there is a certain, perfect irony in a question that stupid. You are too lazy to get off your own ass to find out if someone else has ever done any real work.
Perfect. |
Care to show us what evidence you have had personal contact with? Have you been shown by NIST the inner workings of their analysis or do you accept it at face value? Don't forget, NIST is a government agency, their job was to make the data fit with the official account and in the case of WTC7 they still can't seem to do that. Perhaps you'd care to help if you know more than they. |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you have a sense of irony? are you from the colonies? Imagine you standing up in a court of law and saying.. "M'lud, Bernstein and not Avery is clearly the investigative journalist, look at the way he busted his ass on the Watergate Washington Post story compared to Avery's intact ass post his 9/11 investigation"I find it extraordinary you put any faith in Popular (the impact hole was 90ftwide)Mechanics! your reverting to personal insults covers up your evasion of my question about which official Pentagon photos or films/whatever impacting the facility 9/11 do you subscribe to. Talking of human senses, you don't seem to have normal human suspicion response if you can't see they're blatently lieing to us on this aspect of the 9/11 jigsaw. |
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marky 54
Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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how ironic. the very people who request proof of claims made are making a thread about errors, most do so without providing one inch of evidence for their claims.
thats not to say lcfc has'nt got mistakes, but i just find it ironic people are expected to believe what they say on their say so with no links or evidence provided to back up the claim. whilst at the same time requesting evidence of anyone who disagrees with them, inorder to prove what they say is true.
why would i expect anything different, it works the same here.
truther makes a claim = evidence please.
critic makes a claim = no other information needed, he said it, therefore it must be true!
i would of found the information over at jref compelling if they had provided evidence for their claims. as it is nothing has changed, i have no reason to believe their claims with no evidence, the same as i have no reason to believe others claims without evidence.
critic: 1: its not a spider its a beetle.
critics 2: oh man these looney have been 100% debunked.
critic 1: yeah, it was'nt hard to see.
truther: hold on a mintue, a spider dos'nt have antenni coming out their heads, its a beetle.
critic 1: evidence please, how do you expect people to believe what you say without evidence.
Brainster:
They also show an Air Force officer saying "We fought many phantoms that day," without mentioning that he's not referring to their supposed "insertions" but to phantom Flight 11, which the military believed was still airborne long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center, and to other flights which were believed to have possibly been hijacked like Delta 1989.
TC329:
Why did the military believe AA11 was stilll airborne?
Oh yeah because it never disappeared off of the radar. In fact it stayed on the radar for a good 45 minutes or so afterwards I believe.
Explain.
TheRedWorm:
Do you have evidence that it stayed on the radar screen for 45 minutes?
TC329:
Erase the time because I believe that was the amount I heard.
Regardless it stayed on radar long enough for the military to "confirm" that it was "definitely another plane that hit the tower" and that AA11 was "still airborne and still a hijack" to the FAA?
Those quoted words I recall directly from the recordings.
TheRedWorm:
So, you were wrong about your 45 minute claim, yet you expect us to trust your memory to provide correct and in context quotes from (?) recordings?
TC329:
So you're now actually denying AA11 remained on the radar after it's impact with the North Tower?
Really?
Please say yes.
TheRedWorm:
That's not what I said. I simply asked you to provide evidence for your claim. It sounds as if you can, so, if you don't mind, present it.
END.
see how it works? critics make a claim it must be true. any truther making a claim requires evidence. i see very little evidence provided in the jref thread to back up their claims that lcfc got their information wrong. |
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| marky 54 wrote: |
........see how it works? critics make a claim it must be true. any truther making a claim requires evidence. i see very little evidence provided in the jref thread to back up their claims that lcfc got their information wrong. |
You know marky, you often say something similar, but actually both truthers and critics make claims without evidence, and both truthers and critics ask each other for evidence. There is actually no difference between them in that respect, but for some reason you always attack critics not truthers about it. |
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marky 54
Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Bushwacker wrote: | | marky 54 wrote: |
........see how it works? critics make a claim it must be true. any truther making a claim requires evidence. i see very little evidence provided in the jref thread to back up their claims that lcfc got their information wrong. |
You know marky, you often say something similar, but actually both truthers and critics make claims without evidence, and both truthers and critics ask each other for evidence. There is actually no difference between them in that respect, but for some reason you always attack critics not truthers about it. |
the very reason i was pointing it out, is the fact that critics never ask each other to confirm their findings. they never seem to attack eachother about it, only truthers.
so tell me bushwacker, if someone at jref makes a claim does that make it correct, and do you believe it when no evidence has been provided to confirm that claim?
there seems to be a lot of double standards coming from critics. i keep pointing it out because in effect all they do is turn up here make a claim or ridicule, and provide no evidence what so ever to support their claim.
it makes it very hard to believe what is being said and gives no information that would provide more knowledge to throw out theorys or evidence which has been proven false with back up facts. instead we are all left to rely on critics say so.
information against is just as important imo. however those who are 100% against cannot share or provide it 90% of the time. |
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| marky, I do not think anyone has a right to expect that anyone will believe him just because he says so, we all need to be able to back up what we say with evidence, if we are making a categoric statement, that applies to critics and truthers alike. And equally, we can say that something is simply our opinion, although we have little or no evidence for it. |
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A.L.EX-N.E.TA
Minor Poster
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Derbyshire
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Loose Change: Final Cut (which is a new film and not a new cut despite the title) here - www.loosechange911.com/finalcut
_________________
Buy 9/11 Truth dvds on Amazon.com from seller BOXBOX - U.K residents get 2 or 3 FREE dvds from him with every order (due too the postage being $13 even though it only costs $3.65 at the most)
I've brought about 4 things from him and collected about 12 free dvds. |
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NorthernSoul
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 100
Location: Grimsby
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | ...Is it also the truth that the '9/11 official story (latest version that day) fundermentalist zealot screw people' have ALWAYS ducked Loose Change's challenge to a public debate on 9/11? chickenhawks like their paymasters? |
Now I don't know where you get this idea from, the bloggers at SLC make no money from their work and have other jobs and priorities. The Loose Change gang are made up of army deserters and kids who weren't accepted in to any college who make money out of their "documentaries" so you have to put it in to perspective.
To my knowledge James and Pat at SLC have never taken part in a debate, however Mark Roberts recently put out an open challenge to all prominent truthers to take part in a Hardfire debate. Only a single, nutty no-planer, answered his challenge. In the end the debate was very much cancelled. I'm sure Roberts was looking for somebody like David Ray Griffin or Richard Gage |
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Stefan
Banned
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1219
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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"Army Desserters"
Would you like to back that up?
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Peace and Truth |
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NorthernSoul
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 100
Location: Grimsby
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Korey Rowe admits running away from the army.
Then again last I heard he was claiming to be in a military prison, though he was seen at Loose Change viewing somewhere in the states apparently... |
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Stefan
Banned
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1219
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Can I remind you that under international law a soldier is required to refuse to fight when the order is illegal?
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Peace and Truth |
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NorthernSoul
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 100
Location: Grimsby
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| You ae assuming he was given an order at all, I don't know the details of his desertion, however it is fair to assume that he was not serving abroad at the time. Furthermore he has never given any indication, to the best of my knowledge, as to why he left, beyond being an advocate of 9/11 Truth. |
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