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TetraGrammatonCleric
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isfahan
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TetraGrammatonCleric
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 Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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"It should be borne in mind that Gerrish has some pronounced McCarthyite attitudes and is part of and supports extremist Right-wing organisations like the Thatcherite, union-busting Freedom Association.."
do we have proof to back up this hyperbole? |
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isfahan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | do we have proof to back up this hyperbole? |
Well, you have to use your intelligence to check ii out. First, listen to his videos where he refers to various 'red conspiracies' going on in the UK and refers to the EU as "the Communist Party of the EU". All McCarthyite nonsense.
His own group works with Roger Helmer (UKIP MEP) who is Chairman of the Freedom Association which has a known history of pro-Thatcherite union-busting. Just two points "to back up this hyperbole." |
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TetraGrammatonCleric
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| communism is a b****** child of the NWO. Every time he mentions 'red' or 'communist' i just translate that as the Illuminati agenda and this 'common purpose' sounds like the sort of organisation that would work to inculcate communist(fascist, anti-freedom) leanings in high ranking people to make them see an ever more fascist totalitarian agenda as a good thing. I'm not locked into this 'commies are out to get us' I realise all these 'isms' are the same meant to enslave. Just thought this was interesting from the point of view of the encroaching enslavement agenda as it seems this is the kind of softly-softly approach to changing peoples minds(for the worse) that they would use. |
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isfahan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | communism is a b****** child of the NWO. Every time he mentions 'red' or 'communist' i just translate that as the Illuminati agenda and this 'common purpose' sounds like the sort of organisation that would work to inculcate communist(fascist, anti-freedom) leanings in high ranking people to make them see an ever more fascist totalitarian agenda as a good thing. I'm not locked into this 'commies are out to get us' I realise all these 'isms' are the same meant to enslave. |
Well, that's your subjective interpretation but I wouldn't think it would be his. The guy's ex-Royal Navy and no doubt grew up suckling on that other McCarthyite, Thatcher's teats.
| Quote: | | Just thought this was interesting from the point of view of the encroaching enslavement agenda as it seems this is the kind of softly-softly approach to changing peoples minds(for the worse) that they would use. |
I would venture that someone like Gerrish is very choosy about who he might complain had an enslavement agenda and who not. After all, his pals in the Freedom Association were quite happy to bust the unions which are the only protection a worker has. So it appears that the Gerrish crowd don't object to certain types of enslavement just so long as it doesn't include them. |
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TetraGrammatonCleric
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| yes, it could be a misdirection, saying its the communist EU when the problem is much bigger than that- reminds me of Icke and the David Davis situation- Davis is the possible 'place man' to misdirect public concern about big brother - whereas this Gerrish guy could serve the same purpose. |
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isfahan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | yes, it could be a misdirection, saying its the communist EU when the problem is much bigger than that- reminds me of Icke and the David Davis situation- Davis is the possible 'place man' to misdirect public concern about big brother - whereas this Gerrish guy could serve the same purpose. |
Oh, Sweet Jesus, You can't win with the conspiracyholics, can you? What are you suggesting now? That Gerrish is a placeman of the people behind a communist EU whose purpose is to disinform and demoralise?
How much more convoluted can a person's thinking become?
Look, if there's any conspiracy here the reasoning is pretty straightforward. Gerrish is a habitual McCarthyite as his words and statements about 'reds under the bed' clearly suggest. He is also anti-EU and may bear an (understandable) grudge against Common Purpose after what happened to his daughter. He also hobnobs with extreme right-wingers from groups like the Freedom Association. As an ex-serviceman and naval officer he may also have doings with either the MoD or MI5 or both.
Is the real target of his attack Common Purpose or the EU? Probably both. Even if he were not working with others, even if he is just an embittered individual spreading his distorted views amongst the gullible one thing is clear: he has a predatory (shark-like) nature and seeks to manipulate people psychologically to accept his message.
And in doing so he does the Neocons (who fear the EU) a great service.
| Quote: | | reminds me of Icke and the David Davis situation |
I would never compare Gerrish with Icke. Whereas Icke is an honourable man who does a tremendous service to his countrymen, Gerrish is sneaky and underhanded and, all in all, a most unpleasant piece of work in my estimation. |
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TetraGrammatonCleric
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I was partially trying to see where your mindset lies. Saying that Icke is an honourable man (which I totally agree with) then by extension you must be a 'conspiracyholic' in some way , shape or form according to a large percentage of the population. Neocons fearing the EU? from what i've seen its all part of the same consolidation agenda - American Union, Asia union etc. same force behind it. One wonders who's thoughts are convoluted here. |
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isfahan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Neocons fearing the EU? from what i've seen its all part of the same consolidation agenda - American Union, Asia union etc. same force behind it. One wonders who's thoughts are convoluted here. |
Well, I'm afraid you are hopelessly wrong. The Neocons dread an economically and militarily strong EU because they see that it could provide them with a serious, challenging power bloc.
At the moment they are trying to infiltrate the EU's structure in order to get it to align militarily with the USA. They have had some initial success but I think in the longer term the two blocs will drift away from each other and become increasingly competitive. That is what usually happens in the world of capitalism.
As for "the same consolidation agenda" you are making the same mistake that most conspiracy-theorists make, assuming that there is one big guiding hand behind it all, that an unknown group of manipulators are organising all the pieces on the chessboard.
This is similar to the belief that there is a Malign Plan in the Universe with a demonic guiding hand calling all the shots, a sort of new religion of A Malign Universal Conspiracy! It's scary, it's neat, it's mechanistic and it's unreal.
This is not to say that conspiracies of the Bilderberg and Trilateral variety don't exist. Nor that 911 and 7/7 weren't state-sponsored terrorist incidents. And if there is a really big conspiracy on this Planet it's the capitalist system which calls most of the shots.
But even capitalists still compete with themselves and there are still big divisions of interest between the North American and European variety. The Neocons want global dominion by the US, the Europeans do not want that and would prefer to have an entente with Russia and the SCO countries. These differences eventually translate into foreign and military policy.
The real world is far more complex than any Malign Conspiracy Theorist might suppose.
Last edited by isfahan on Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TetraGrammatonCleric
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ok, its interesting how we all fight amongst ourselves...those of us above all the petty bickering and infighting on the nightly news. Who know something is wrong. That is all. "Well, I'm afraid you are hopelessly wrong" dont patronise me, you obviously have all the answers so there is no more to say here. |
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isfahan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "Well, I'm afraid you are hopelessly wrong" dont patronise me, |
I'm not patronising you, that's the chip on your shoulder showing. 
Let's try again then: "You're hopelessly wrong, period." |
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xmasdale
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| TetraGrammatonCleric wrote: | | ok, its interesting how we all fight amongst ourselves ... you obviously have all the answers so there is no more to say here. |
May I stick my oar into this dialogue? I don't claim to have all the answers, but I have had some contact with Brian Gerrish.
I was first put on to him by Justin Walker, who was recently David Icke's election agent in Haltemprice and Howden. I regard Justin as a good friend though I disagree with him politically in certain ways. Despite Justin's military background and close association with Icke, he does not come across as full of right-wing prejudices in the way that Brian Gerrish does.
I first contacted Brian Gerrish on the phone earlier this year over the issue of a child with learning and behavioural difficulties being mistreated by staff at a London school. Children who misbehave get locked in a secure punishment unit at this school. Common Purpose influence was suspected but we were not able to prove it.
In a phone conversation about this school Brian said to me words to the effect that Common Purpose had been set up by the European Union in order to make institutions in Britain malfunction so that they can be taken over by a European superstate. I have not been able to find any evidence for this allegation, so I have to ask myself whether it is simply a figment of Brian's right-wing and Europhobic prejudices.
At the 9/11 movement gathering in Bristol last month I heard Brian give a talk. He presented lots of information, showing many documents on a screen, but none, so far as I could see, showed any connection between Common Purpose and the EU, nor did any show that the aim of CP is to make UK institutions malfunction. Brian's lecture was strewn with words and phrases which to my mind betrayed his right-wing prejudices. Well we all have prejudices and mine are of the Left. I thought it was significant that one activist commented to me after "Pity Brian Gerrish is such a fruit-cake," while another heckled during his talk.
The serious issue is whether Brian proves what he says about CP. To my mind he demonstrates that it is an unaccountable organisation, favoured by the Establishment, which trains people in "leadership skills" and possibly puts people unwittingly through some kind of brain-washing, and which penetrates and influences many established institutions. To my mind that is sinister and CP therefore needs exposing on those grounds, but not on unproven grounds.
I was first warned about Common Purpose three years ago by the astute Dr Mohamad Naseem, chairman of the Birmingham Central Mosque. I find him a wise soul whom we would all do well to heed.
If you go to this thread on the Wake Up forum http://www.truthforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=34 you will see that a guy called Rory Winter (who incidentally has been banned from this forum for not embracing blanket condemnation of all EU institutions as part of a global fascist conspriracy) has been attempting, unsuccessfully, to find a connection between the EU and CP. Since lack of evidence is not evidence of the lack of something, we cannot assume that there is no such link, but if people want to continue to make that allegation they should dig further to find it but if they fail, refrain from making unsubstantiated allegations. |
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kbo234
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Excellent post Xmasdale. |
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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'The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so--called ideologies [marxism/fascism/socialism v. democracy/capitalism] to enable them [the Illuminati] to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other.'
-- from The Illuminati and the Council on Foreign Relations by Myron Fagan" |
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isfahan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 'The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so--called ideologies [marxism/fascism/socialism v. democracy/capitalism] to enable them [the Illuminati] to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other.'
-- from The Illuminati and the Council on Foreign Relations by Myron Fagan" |
I don't know who Myron Fagan is but assume by the unlikely name that he or she is yet another one of those north American cranks who believe that Communism and Fascism are both the same thing and, like Gerrish and some others here, that there's a Red or a Nazi or a Jew always concealed under the bed waiting to spring out and terrorise us innocent souls.
Andrew, you really should read what has already been written on threads before jumping in & repeating what has already been dealt with. First, the Illuminati. Can you please prove to me their present-day existence? On asking this question from several others who mention the name I am told that it is 'merely shorthand' to describe the Freemasons.
Ok, Freemasons then. But call a spade a spade. No need to go on with romantic superstitions about non-existent organisations. It doesn't help your case and merely confirms you to be a conspiracyholic. As if we don't have enough problems dealing with that allegation because of our stand on 911 and false-flag operations. So, please put the Illumninati in the bin where they belong.
Second, there is no Great Universal Malign Conspiracy whose diabolic hand controls all events "to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other".
This idea smacks of a modern-day superstition along the Cathar idea of the existence of a Rex Mundi, a material Murphy's Law which ensures that however hard we might try on the physical plane our best laid plans are doomed from their very inception!
Sorry mate, your idea of an Illuminati-led Universal Malign Conspiracy to divide, rule and destroy humanity might just as well include horrid little Green Men from Proxima Centauri. The idea is scary, yet mechanistic as if we're all hopelessly part of a works with an Illuminati spanner in it.
I seem to recall that this paranoia that Fagan promotes is described by some as the Hegelian Dialectic, not to be confused by Marx's dialectical materialism. Frankly I would be insulted by it were it not so nonsensical, typical of the superstitious rubbish that comes out of the febrile minds of north Americans exercised by one or another form of Armageddon.
What proof is there of a conspiracy between the Rothschilds and international communism? Marx might have been financed by the industrialist Engels and Lenin might have borrowed money on Wall Street for the bolshevik revolution. So what? Where else was Lenin going to obtain the vast sums that he needed after he started to run out of the Czar's gold?
If anything, the accusation of practising the so-called Hegelian Dialectic should be levelled against Wall Street for so generously funding Lenin and Hitler. But even though I am a dedicated anti-capitalist I wouldn't be so naive as to do that. Wall Street is totally irresponsible when it comes to morals. It's amoral, it'll lend to anyone who is considered to be a good risk.
It's interesting that Fagan has to balance the illusory nature of the Illuminati with a real, nuts and bolts organisation like the Council on Foreign Relations whose British sister group is Chatham House (ex- Royal Institute of International Affairs). By doing so he gives his crackpot idea a claim on reality.
My suggestion is this: notwithstanding their enticements, stay off Lizards, the Illuminati and Universal Conspiracies. They only encourage the opposition, those who wish us ill. Concentrate on the multiplicity of real time organisations who are behind conspiracies to bring about a New World Order. And there are plenty of them: Bilderberg, the Trilateralists, the Round Table, the CFR, Chatham House, the Heritage Foundation, the Neocons, the Henry Jackson Society, the ex-Congress for Cultural Freedom and whichever form in which it has reincarnated, the Atlanticists, the World Bank, the IMF, the World Trade Center, the so-called neo-liberals with their mendacious 'free-markets' ... and all their hangers on.
We have no shortage of real life conspiracies amongst these. So instead of quoting claptrap about imaginary culprits start dealing with the real ones. To dwell on will o'the wisps while ignoring the real threats is tantamount to spreading disinformation. I'm sure that's not your intention. So please desist from doing it. 
Last edited by isfahan on Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Isfahan.
Have you not read 1984 and Animal Farm by George Orwell (Eric Blair) both of them.
Also not to forget that they were only Fabianist books. Watered down from some other famous work from around the time of 1884. |
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isfahan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Isfahan.
Have you not read 1984 and Animal Farm by George Orwell (Eric Blair) both of them.
Also not to forget that they were only Fabianist books. Watered down from some other famous work from around the time of 1884. |
Yes, I have read them as well as several other books of his and about him ... several times as well as giving lectures on them and Orwell. Orwell's work I respect for what they are but there simply is no comparison between a serious free-thinker like Orwell and some idiot masquerading under the improbable nom-de-plume, Myron Fagan.
I suspect in quoting 1984 for example you are alluding to the habit of Big Brother to create various false-flag terrorist incidents to frighten, brainwash and control the proles. I have no doubt that such things go on in real life. In fact, I'm damn sure they do. But you don't need to attribute the blame onto a non-existent Illuminati when MI5, Mossad and the CIA will do. |
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kbo234
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| isfahan wrote: |
Second, there is no Great Universal Malign Conspiracy ......
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You do not know this.
Perhaps we should look at some of the evidence.
Usury was banned in Christendom for many centuries. How has it come to be the core culture of almost the entire world? Has this happened by accident....or have the central bankers organised their affairs in order to make it so?
I think you will have to agree, the latter.
Considering this along with the fact that this all-defining aspect of our culture has never been openly discussed in the public domain in our lifetimes I think you will also have to agree that secrecy contributes a very large part of the success of these bankers operations.
This, then is a conspiracy. What is conspiracy but to organise in secret?
You want my opinion Isfahan (well, you probably don't)?
Nothing on earth is or can be more malign.
What do you think 'globalism' is but the determination by this group to control the whole world. They will manufacture our money out of nothing for us and charge us interest for the privilege of allowing them to do so?
This will be total control if they ever get there.
Do you fancy living in a global Soviet Union?
This is a great conspiracy, it is a global (or Universal, if you like) conspiracy and it is malign, malign, malign.
| isfahan wrote: |
This idea smacks of a modern-day superstition |
Material fact, more like.
Last edited by kbo234 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| isfahan wrote: | | Quote: | Isfahan.
Have you not read 1984 and Animal Farm by George Orwell (Eric Blair) both of them.
Also not to forget that they were only Fabianist books. Watered down from some other famous work from around the time of 1884. |
Yes, I have read them as well as several other books of his and about him ... several times as well as giving lectures on it and Orwell. Orwell's work I respect for what they are but there simply is no comparison between a serious free-thinker like Orwell and some idiot masquerading under the improbable nom-de-plume, Myron Fagan. |
Have you read his “Moon under water” piece?
The Moon Under Water
by George Orwell
Evening Standard, 9 February 1946
George Orwell's favourite pub
And his work on Rudyard Kipling?
And then search for some work written long before “Moon under Water”
About “A very big Idiot” by Rudyard written well before “Moon under Water” year 1888 |
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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kbo234 wrote: 
Do you fancy living in a global Soviet Union?
http://www.george-orwell.org/Rudyard_Kipling/0.html
"It was a pity that Mr. Eliot should be so much on the defensive in the
long essay with which he prefaces this selection of Kipling's poetry,
but it was not to be avoided, because before one can even speak about
Kipling one has to clear away a legend that has been created by two sets
of people who have not read his works. Kipling is in the peculiar
position of having been a byword for fifty years. During five literary
generations every enlightened person has despised him,"
On and on with slurs.
Excerpt only:Rudyard Kipling. year 1888
"So the Club had rest when he returned; and if ever you come across Aurelian McGoggin laying down the law on things Human--he doesn't seem to know as much as he used to about things Divine-- put your forefinger on your lip for a moment, and see what happens.
Don't blame me if he throws a glass at your head!"
George Orwell's favourite pub year 1946
Do you fancy living in a global Soviet Union? Gog and magog Two cities in Russia.
I'm impressed kbo234 |
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isfahan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This is a great conspiracy, it is a global (or Universal, if you like) conspiracy and it is malign, malign, malign. |
Ah, so you do believe in the modern equivalent of the Cathars' Rex Mundi, a Malign Universal Conspiracy (headed by Jews and Commies). Mr Hilter & you would have found a lot in common.
Well, in that case all I can suggest is that you keep taking the medication and not miss out on a single dose.
| Quote: | | Do you fancy living in a global Soviet Union? |
You and I already live in a totalitarian, global village ruled by corporate-capitalist fascists. What is the difference, really? Try organise an uprising today & see what happens to you!
Last edited by isfahan on Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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simplesimon
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Commendable and thoughtful post xmasdale. I agree with you in general terms that we should collect as much evidence as possible before making allegations, but:
xmasdale wrote:
| Quote: | | Brian said to me words to the effect that Common Purpose had been set up by the European Union in order to make institutions in Britain malfunction so that they can be taken over by a European superstate. I have not been able to find any evidence for this allegation |
That's three allegations - the most concrete is that CP's MO is to bring about malfunction, but I suppose Gerrish would agree with you that they "penetrate" and "influence" :-
xmasdale wrote:
| Quote: | | To my mind he demonstrates that it is an unaccountable organisation, favoured by the Establishment, which trains people in "leadership skills" and possibly puts people unwittingly through some kind of brain-washing, and which penetrates and influences many established institutions. |
Malfunction, or penetrate and influence to change their function - it's kind of the same allegation isn't it?
I agree that Gerrish hasn't demonstrated that "The EU" "setup" Common Purpose, (please - as though that's how it would work) or directly shown that it's objectives are to facilitate EU takeover. However, one of CP's central mantras is "Leading Beyond Authority", and those of us opposed to the EU see it constantly claiming and exercising power beyond it's authority - that is beyond the authority ordinary people ever gave it or were / are even aware that it has. They appear to embrace similar philosophies and methods.
So I think it's pretty meaningless to decry the lack of a signed confession, or any "documentary evidence". If A and B are attacking C, it's reasonable to suppose that A and B have interests in common, and speculate that they are on the same side. What CP are doing would seem to facilitate takeover by a European superstate - even if there is little evidence that they act in concert, they seem to have the same objectives.
Oh... and CP's logo incorporates the Zionist/Talmudic/Satanic/Kabbalist (whatever - but not Jewish as I understand it) symbol known these days as "The Star of David". If you don't think that's "evidence" of anything, don't you have to suppose that well paid graphic design consultants either didn't know, did it accidentally, or are having a bit of a laugh?
It's open to question whether Rory Winter is "attempting... to find a connection between the EU and CP". As he seems to defend the EU above all else and (dishonestly IMO) equates opposition to a globalist institution (EU) with opposition to "Europe" and xenophobia, I think it's reasonable for me to suggest that he might be doing the opposite. To frame Gerrish's allegations in such simple terms as "The EU setup CP" looks to me like misdirection, whether intended or not - we all know things are more complex than that don't we?
I do condemn all EU institutions as part of a globalist conspiracy - Rory Winter doesn't, and I agree with you that he should not have been banned for his views.
=======================================
isfahan wrote (re The Illuminati):
| Quote: | | Can you please prove to me their present-day existence? |
The historical reality of the Bavarian Illuminati is not disputed is it? Can you prove that they disbanded? Do you think they got together one day and said "I say chaps, this world domination wheeze isn't really cricket is it? Let's drop it and concentrate on charitable works from now on shall we?"
| Quote: | | Second, there is no Great Universal Malign Conspiracy whose diabolic hand controls all events "to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other". |
Have you any evidence for that? Or do you just not believe it, or not want to believe it, or are you not capable of imagining it?
East/West (Cold War - many of us think it was a hoax)
Left/Right (All contemporary politics - leading to "The Third Way")
Man/Woman (Battle of the Sexes) - what a ridiculous notion.
Old/Young - when (and how) did we stop respecting our elders?
I predict that the phrase, or the concept of "Battle of the Generations" will appear before too long, in fact it's already here re ideas and resources.
Did these "opposing camps" arise spontaneously?
| Quote: | | ... this paranoia ..is described by some as the Hegelian Dialectic,...I would be insulted by it were it not so nonsensical, typical of the superstitious rubbish... |
That's hardly an adequate refutation of Hegel's ideas - I daresay that you, like me, could not argue at his intellectual level. But, in keeping with my handle, I see some things in simple terms, like "Problem, Reaction, Solution". The secret elite who run this world are much cleverer than you or I - they might say "Thesis, Anti-thesis, Synthesis". You and I can easily understand this, and how it works, so I just don't see why you're arguing that "they" don't.
| Quote: | | that comes out of the febrile minds of north Americans exercised by one or another form of Armageddon. |
That looks to me like you're playing on the false notion that Americans are dumber than us. I would say it borders on "racist", except I don't really care about that - just whether it's true. While it may be true that Americans on average are more dumbed down and mind bent than us Brits, I would sugggest that "awake" Americans are on average more perceptive and informed than their European counterparts, largely due to their constitutionally enshrined ideas of individual freedom and liberty.
| Quote: | | Concentrate on the multiplicity of real time organisations who are behind conspiracies to bring about a New World Order. |
All of which in your own words "are behind conspiracies to bring about a New World Order". Why do you attack the idea that if they are working to the same end, they might be centrally directed?
If factionalism is the dominant factor, which faction did 9/11, 7/7 etc., and why haven't any opposing factions exposed them?
| Quote: | | But you don't need to attribute the blame onto a non-existent Illuminati when MI5, Mossad and the CIA will do. |
If we get glimpses of what looks like the man behind the curtain behind the man behind the curtain behind the man behind the curtain, why do you tell us to look only at the man behind the curtain?
_________________
If you want to know who is really in control, ask yourself who you cannot criticise.
"The hunt for 'anti-semites' is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the NWO"-- Israel Shamir
"What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." - Heinz "Henry" Kissinger |
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isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I agree that Gerrish hasn't demonstrated that "The EU" "setup" Common Purpose, (please - as though that's how it would work) or directly shown that it's objectives are to facilitate EU takeover. However, one of CP's central mantras is "Leading Beyond Authority", and those of us opposed to the EU see it constantly claiming and exercising power beyond it's authority - that is beyond the authority ordinary people ever gave it or were / are even aware that it has. They appear to embrace similar philosophies and methods. |
Just because, in your minds, you see the EU doing this does not mean that it has anything to do with Common Purpose or, as Gerrish so often states, that "Common Purpose is the Communist Party of the EU." What you are trying to do here is to prove the unproven by using guilt-by-association, a trick that Gerrish often uses.
Birds of a feather & all that ... |
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isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The historical reality of the Bavarian Illuminati is not disputed is it? Can you prove that they disbanded? Do you think they got together one day and said "I say chaps, this world domination wheeze isn't really cricket is it? Let's drop it and concentrate on charitable works from now on shall we?" |
It's the business of those who allege such contemporary conspiracies to prove that they do, in real life, exist. Similarly with the Illuminati. As I say, when I challenge people on it I usually get the answer that the use of the name Illuminati is a "short-hand" for groups behind a global conspiracy, starting with the Freemasons.
Fine, then call them the Freemasons or "a global conspiracy," not an organisation for which there is not the slightest scrap of evidence of their current existence.
| Quote: | | If we get glimpses of what looks like the man behind the curtain behind the man behind the curtain behind the man behind the curtain, why do you tell us to look only at the man behind the curtain? |
Oh God help me! Convoluted thinkers ride again! Sorry, I feel myself being sucked into a bottomless well. I'm off for my supper. |
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simplesimon
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 249
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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A rather hasty and feeble response to my post if you don't mind me saying so, that serves only to push what I've said off the page.
The only points you have even acknowledged (without addresssing) are:
* whether the EU "constantly claims and exercises power beyond it's authority - that is beyond the authority ordinary people ever gave it or were / are even aware that it has."
Care to refute that?
and:
* They appear to embrace similar philosophies and methods.
"Leadership Beyond Authority" - by the globalist EU and the sinister Common Purpose - they do the same thing, apparently to the same end.
That's what they "have to do with each other"
_________________
If you want to know who is really in control, ask yourself who you cannot criticise.
"The hunt for 'anti-semites' is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the NWO"-- Israel Shamir
"What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." - Heinz "Henry" Kissinger |
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isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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GONE FOR SUPPER
| Quote: | It's the business of those who allege such contemporary conspiracies to prove that they do, in real life, exist. Similarly with the Illuminati. As I say, when I challenge people on it I usually get the answer that the use of the name Illuminati is a "short-hand" for groups behind a global conspiracy, starting with the Freemasons.
Fine, then call them the Freemasons or "a global conspiracy," not an organisation for which there is not the slightest scrap of evidence of their current existence. |
If you disagree with this then prove their contemporary existence ... |
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911Eyewitness
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Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| isfahan wrote: | | Quote: | | do we have proof to back up this hyperbole? |
Well, you have to use your intelligence to check ii out. |
In plain English then, no. There is only subjetive induction. |
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kbo234
Validated Poster
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| isfahan wrote: | | Quote: | | This is a great conspiracy, it is a global (or Universal, if you like) conspiracy and it is malign, malign, malign. |
Ah, so you do believe in the modern equivalent of the Cathars' Rex Mundi, a Malign Universal Conspiracy (headed by Jews and Commies). Mr Hilter & you would have found a lot in common.
Well, in that case all I can suggest is that you keep taking the medication and not miss out on a single dose. |
I find it difficult not to think of you as simply an obnoxious idiot.
| isfahan wrote: |
| Quote: | | Do you fancy living in a global Soviet Union? |
You and I already live in a totalitarian, global village ruled by corporate-capitalist fascists. What is the difference, really? Try organise an uprising today & see what happens to you! |
So you think it won't get much worse if we allow the financiers to create a one-world government?
We enjoy elements of freedom now that will disappear.
In the Soviet Union dissidents (i.e. people who simply criticised the state) were routinely taken away and shot.
At rallies in the early days the first people to stop clapping the local commissar's speech were dragged out and shot.
Millions of people whose only crime was that they owned a little property were exterminated.
The only people who thrived were high officials of the party.
Are you trying to realistically compare our situation with this? |
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isfahan
Validated Poster
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The historical reality of the Bavarian Illuminati is not disputed is it? Can you prove that they disbanded? Do you think they got together one day and said "I say chaps, this world domination wheeze isn't really cricket is it? Let's drop it and concentrate on charitable works from now on shall we?" |
Simplesimon, I have already challenged you on this. If you believe that the Illuminati still exists please be so good as to furnish us with proof to substantiate your claim. Your silence will be taken as read that you have no evidence.
As I have said, it's the business of those who allege such contemporary conspiracies to prove that they do, in real life, exist. Similarly with the Illuminati. As I say, when I challenge people on it I usually get the answer that the use of the name Illuminati is a "short-hand" for groups behind a global conspiracy, starting with the Freemasons.
Similarly,
| Quote: | | Have you any evidence for that? Or do you just not believe it, or not want to believe it, or are you not capable of imagining it? |
If you have evidence of a Global Conspiracy of the kind I have described then, again, please provide the evidence.
| Quote: | | That's hardly an adequate refutation of Hegel's ideas |
You misunderstand me. I never refuted the Hegelian Dialectic as put by Hegel. What I do describe as nonsense is its use to describe some global, Machiavellian plan to 'destroy humanity' by creating oppositions who then fight each other. As suggested, this strikes me as yet another version of Armageddon theory originating in the febrile mind of some superstitious north American loony.
| Quote: | | That looks to me like you're playing on the false notion that Americans are dumber than us. |
North Americans, not Americans. Those in the USA, not Canada or Latin America. I recently read that a considerable percentage of US Americans still believe the Earth is flat. Dumb or what?
| Quote: | | I would sugggest that "awake" Americans are on average more perceptive and informed than their European counterparts, largely due to their constitutionally enshrined ideas of individual freedom and liberty. |
Agreed.
| Quote: | | All of which in your own words "are behind conspiracies to bring about a New World Order". Why do you attack the idea that if they are working to the same end, they might be centrally directed? |
Because, apart from the obvious difficulty of trying to coordinate every conspiracy group in the world --including the non-English ones in Russia, China and Asia-- there is not a scrap of evidence pointing to such a coordinated, James Bond-like operation. |
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