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kbo234 Validated Poster
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: Money From Thin Air - at the root of credit crunch |
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A short article I missed that was published in March by Guardian Online but did not (unsurprisingly) appear in the printed editions. James Robertson is an alternative money systems 'guru'.
See
www.jamesrobertson.com
Money from thin air
High street banks issue money in the form of loans. Could this be the root cause of the credit crunch?
* James Robertson
* guardian.co.uk,
* Thursday March 20, 2008
Northern Rock has been nationalised. A report by the Commons treasury select committee on how various government institutions failed has meant little to anyone except insiders. The government is canvassing complicated proposals to increase banks' compensation to depositors whose money they lose in future. And a distinctive feature of the budget was its 23 motherhood-and-apple-pie references to "financial stability".
Meanwhile, the global credit crunch is spreading and deepening. Complicated calculations suggest that the billions of dollars, euros and pounds already "lost" by banks are turning into trillions, but even the banks themselves don't know how much it really is.
What we do know is that, once again, governments' failure to control the greed of bankers is creating financial disaster for many innocent people; and that, once again, officialdom has failed to ask the basic questions about why this has happened, and to give answers in words that normal citizens can understand.
At the heart of the matter is the fact that commercial banks are allowed to create almost all the money we use. They create it out of thin air and put it into circulation in the form of profit-making loans. They credit those to their customers' accounts by a simple accounting procedure, and their customers spend the money into circulation.
This bank-account money is the money that all of us, people and organisations alike, have in our bank accounts. It is held in electronic form in bank computers. It is far and away the largest part of the money supply. The rest, less than 5% in this country, is "cash". This is issued by agencies of the state in the form of paper banknotes by the Bank of England and metal coins by the Royal Mint.
The key question is this: did the banks' privilege of creating bank-account money to lend to one another play a significant part in fuelling the credit bonanza, subprime market and financial boom that bust, leaving such a tangle of international interbank indebtedness that central banks and other authorities like the Financial Services Agency could not assess the potential consequences if it unravelled?
The answer, of course, is yes. But supposedly democratic parliaments, governments and monetary and financial authorities avoid explaining points like that to citizens in understandable words. Secrecy and deception about how the money system works, why it works as it does, and whether there might be a clear and simple way in which its workings could be reformed in the public interest, undoubtedly contributes to disillusionment with democratic politics and government.
Monetary reform would not be complicated. At present the Bank can only try to influence how much new money the banks create, by regulating interest rates. Monetary reform would make the central bank responsible for creating required additions to the money supply. We would simply be following the example of our 19th century predecessors, who recognised that banknotes were no longer just the "credit" notes they had once been, but had become money accepted by everyone for making payments. So they transferred from other banks to the Bank of England the function of issuing them. Similarly, everyone knows today that bank-account money has become real money, and is no longer just something called "credit".
Transferring the function of issuing bank-account money to the central bank would deprive the commercial banks of a nice little earner, and reduce the power they exercise over the economy and society as a whole. They would fight against it - no holds barred. That is a scary prospect for most practising politicians, government officials, City lawyers, economic academics and commentators, as well as bankers themselves and others professionally connected with money and banking. Until they see the "risk-to-reward ratio" for career survival and success shifting in favour of taking monetary reform seriously, they will keep their heads below the parapet.
So the challenge is for independent citizens outside the mainstream political, economic, and financial complex to start shifting that ratio from outside. We should begin by pressing the chancellor and others responsible for managing our money system to tell us, in words we will understand:
• Where did the billions of money come from which fuelled the credit bonanza, subprime market and associated financial boom?
• Broadly what proportion of that money was created out of thin air by commercial banks as loans to one another to invest in risky packages of already existing debts?
• Did their ability to create it for that purpose make it more difficult for the authorities to assess the potential consequences of the tangle of international interbank indebtedness when it threatened to unravel?
• Who are the people who have actually suffered from the banks having "lost" billions of pounds and dollars?
• Where have those billions gone? Where are they now? Who got them, and what have they done with them? Have they "been laughing all the way to a bank" with them? Is their bank quietly laughing too?
• Or have the lost billions simply disappeared into the thin air from which bankers originally created them?
• If so, during their return journey from and then back into thin air, roughly what proportion of them will have enriched the bankers and other financial operators who handled them on the way?
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blackcat Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 2376
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | our 19th century predecessors ..... recognised that banknotes were no longer just the "credit" notes they had once been, but had become money accepted by everyone for making payments. So they transferred from other banks to the Bank of England the function of issuing them. |
Its a tad more involved than that!!!!!!!!
Quote: | Transferring the function of issuing bank-account money to the central bank would deprive the commercial banks of a nice little earner |
Whilst leaving the real culprits with total control to continue their scam.
This ahem "person" is suggesting we give control to Central Banks when it is the Central banks which cause all the problems in the first place!! Even though High Street Banks, practising fractional reserve banking, lend far more than they borrow, at least they do have to borrow, and pay back with interest. Central Banks on the other hand create the money that is lent to High Street Banks from thin air, but charge the High Street Banks repayment in REAL money value, plus interest which has not been created and therefore does not exist, and so CANNOT be repaid!!! That article is typical of the smoke and mirrors used to defend this gigantic pyramid scam. The solution is to reform CENTRAL banking and make the issuance of currency a government function, not a private bankers greedfest hiding behind government sounding names like "The Federal Reserve" or "The Bank of England".
_________________ "The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell. |
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acrobat74 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 836
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | At present the Bank can only try to influence how much new money the banks create, by regulating interest rates. |
No, interest rates have nothing to do with this.
If the central bank wants to interfere with the money 'creation' process, it can change the fractional reserve requirements for commercial banks.
It is this requirement that defines how many £ of 'debt money' a commercial bank can 'create' for every £1 on deposit with the bank.
For example, a bank can create £9 in 'debt money' for every £10 on deposit with the bank. It can't exceed this ratio.
In essence, it is the central bank that 'creates' money by emitting base money into the system. The central bank obviously knows 'by how much' it wants to inflate the money supply.
The commercial banks then apply fractional reserve banking and 'multiply' this base money by giving out loans.
Money Masters FAQ:
http://www.themoneymasters.com/faqs.htm
Money as debt:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279
Regarding the credit crunch:
Eventually, it is the individual that bears the responsibility for the credit crunch.
It's quite simple: this all came about because lots of people took on credit they couldn't realistically afford.
Bad banking and greedy, predatory, unethical bankers will always exist.
However, they can't force anybody to take on a mortgage he/she can't afford. There is (or at least there should be) individual responsibility.
Unless we want a big government to make our borrowing decisions for us?
What's nasty is when government colludes with banking to encourage predatory lending:
Elliot Spitzer: Predatory lenders' partners in crime
Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008 021302783.html
_________________ Summary of 9/11 scepticism: http://tinyurl.com/27ngaw6 and www.911summary.com
Off the TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4szU19bQVE
Those who do not think that employment is systemic slavery are either blind or employed. (Nassim Taleb)
www.moneyasdebt.net
http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/
Last edited by acrobat74 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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simplesimon Moderate Poster
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 249
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I've noticed over the last 12 months or so that "they" are giving the sheeple a glimpse of this truth, that banksters create money from thin air.
Examples:
* Religious discussion programme on R4 about a year ago, Presenter, Christian, Muslim and Jew discussing things, including usury. The Muslim was allowed to quickly say it outright "create money from nothing", though not to expand on it of course.
* You & Yours phone-in, R4 about 3 months ago about the "credit crunch". A caller began by saying something like "The problem is that all money is created as debt...". The guest expert butted in and said something like "Well, it would take about an hour to explain (chuckles all round in the studio) the real issue is...."
* R4 Six o'clock news, (IIRC) about 2 months ago - financial correspondent said something like "... for every 1 dollar the banks holdings go down, the amount they are allowed to loan out goes down by 10 dollars...". Sadly, I reckon only 1 in a 100 people would stop and think "hang on - so does that work the other way round? - but anyway "they" appear to be letting the "secret" out "officially".
Those are just the examples I can clearly remember - I don't consume much media these days, not wanting my mind bent.
Now we have this article. (thanks kbo234 - interesting find) Seems to me the writer doesn't give readers the full skinny. The writer looks like a globalist, albeit one who tells you that it could be "people centred" which is saying "people-driven" - as though ordinary people have any choice or power whatsoever.
Now, it would be easy to think that, basically because of the internet, more and more people are finding out about money from thin air, and "they" want the sheeple to gradually absorb the knowledge, so as to diffuse the bomb before it goes off, so to speak. They might for example package any glimpse of the truth with vague notions of "well, it sort of has to be that way... economics... complicated... don't worry your little head...".
{Aside: I recently asked, and no-one answered, if folks had noticed that only one poster defends the banking scam. Must be just me who noticed that.}
But - hang on - I remember reading SOMETHING, somehere - about some kind of plan for world domination. It was IIRC written over 100 years ago. It had all kinds of stuff about how the banking scam would be used to gain power and control - and stuff about how society would develop - or breakdown, over the 20th Century - whoever wrote it seemed to be very well versed in economics, "good with money", you might say. I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE DOCUMENT WAS CALLED.
But what worries me is, despite just not remembering what the document was called, I'm sure it said something about, WHEN THE PLAN WAS FULFILLED, THE BANKING SCAM WOULD END, and only corporations would be permitted to charge interest, but on real money only. Or something like that.
Has anyone else seen anything like this?
_________________ If you want to know who is really in control, ask yourself who you cannot criticise.
"The hunt for 'anti-semites' is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the NWO"-- Israel Shamir
"What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." - Heinz "Henry" Kissinger |
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blackcat Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 2376
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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acrobat 74 wrote: | It's quite simple: this all came about because lots of people took on credit they couldn't realistically afford. |
People certainly did that and were given every encouragement to do so but that is not the explanation for the current situation. The reason that so many people who's credit rating was poor were invited in to the party was to keep the scam rolling a while longer. The pyramid scheme was reaching its end so a few more suckers were dragged in. The problem is esentially this - a sum of money is "created" by Central Banks then loaned out. That sum has to be repaid WITH INTEREST!! But there IS no money to pay the interest because it has not been "created". This scam can be hidden in the vast complexity of economic affairs but only for a while. It is bound to fail. The commercial banks are left holding the baby, they go bust and are either nationalised (ie we pay for its failure!) or sucked up by the Central banks like Bear Stearns recently, at a knock down price. The Central Bankers thus get to own the world!!!
_________________ "The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell. |
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acrobat74 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 836
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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blackcat wrote: | acrobat 74 wrote: | It's quite simple: this all came about because lots of people took on credit they couldn't realistically afford. |
People certainly did that and were given every encouragement to do so but that is not the explanation for the current situation. The reason that so many people who's credit rating was poor were invited in to the party was to keep the scam rolling a while longer. The pyramid scheme was reaching its end so a few more suckers were dragged in. |
Agreed, predatory bankers lured more 'suckers' into loans they couldn't afford.
And we know government colludes with banking by the very fact that bank-generated credit is exchangeable with the official government fiat currency.
Getting credit is a big 'buyer beware' issue.
However, don't you think the 'suckers' have any responsibility when they pledge their assets as collateral for loans they can't afford?
And why are they 'suckers' in the first place? Aren't they responsible for being 'suckers'?
_________________ Summary of 9/11 scepticism: http://tinyurl.com/27ngaw6 and www.911summary.com
Off the TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4szU19bQVE
Those who do not think that employment is systemic slavery are either blind or employed. (Nassim Taleb)
www.moneyasdebt.net
http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/ |
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kbo234 Validated Poster
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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blackcat wrote: |
This ahem "person" is suggesting we give control to Central Banks when it is the Central banks which cause all the problems in the first place!! |
My impression has been that he wishes government to issue public revenue through the central bank rather than allow the central bank to create the money itself and charge us interest.....in other words the 'central bank' should be strictly the instrument of government.
I could be wrong about this.
It would certainly be a crucial and deadly error to allow the traditional central bankers to control (or have anything to do with) the process.
I must find time to read up more about this stuff.
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Alexander Moderate Poster
Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 143
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fish5133 Site Admin
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 2568 Location: One breath from Glory
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Suppose somehow this could be leading towards a greater form of cashless society and those without the "mark of the beast" (whatever that may be) will not be able to buy or sell.
I suppose another concept, which i havent really put much thought to is the idea of "value". Everything has some level of "value" for us. Basic needs (food, water,shelter, etc) actually carry more "value" than say a big Porsche. The real value of money only happens when it becomes the only means of obtaining our needs less so our "wants" (e.g. luxuries).
_________________ JO911B.
"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12 |
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simplesimon Moderate Poster
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 249
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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fish5133 wrote:
Quote: | Suppose somehow this could be leading towards a greater form of cashless society and those without the "mark of the beast" (whatever that may be) will not be able to buy or sell. |
A forcibly implanted chip with a kill function?
I like your post fish5133 - because (if I have you right), you've taken a quick look, and come back with a quick response based partly on instinct, or your general understanding. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Here's mine:
EDIT - anyone know why my attachments are disappearing?
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what does that symbol say to you? |
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_________________ If you want to know who is really in control, ask yourself who you cannot criticise.
"The hunt for 'anti-semites' is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the NWO"-- Israel Shamir
"What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." - Heinz "Henry" Kissinger
Last edited by simplesimon on Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kbo234 Validated Poster
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Another brilliant exposition of how things are today.
Unfortunately unfinished (being published in instalments) but well worth a look. The chapter about 'Bubbles' was particularly informative, I thought.
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acrobat74 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 836
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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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kbo234 wrote: |
Another brilliant exposition of how things are today.
Unfortunately unfinished (being published in instalments) but well worth a look. The chapter about 'Bubbles' was particularly informative, I thought. |
Indeed another excellent resource, very factual and to the point.
I liked how it's making the point that inflation is always a consequence of policy, a 'monetary phenomenon': when demand remains stable prices rise because our money loses its value, not because 'we have inflation'.
http://www.chrismartenson.com/inflation
When demand remains stable, it is the devaluation of the currency that creates inflation (as more £ are needed to buy the same goods & services).
So, if demand can be assumed to be relatively stable, why is our currency getting devalued?
Simple: there's more of it around.
How come?
Well, somebody (a.k.a. central bank) 'printed it', or rather, generated it out of thin air, into existence (this is typically done by 'buying' government bonds from a commercial bank; an accounting transaction credits the commercial bank's account with money that came out of nowhere).
This triggered the fractional reserve banking process, whereby commercial banks loaned out multiples of this 'base money' into existence, thus inflating the money supply (hence the 'more money around' part).
_________________ Summary of 9/11 scepticism: http://tinyurl.com/27ngaw6 and www.911summary.com
Off the TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4szU19bQVE
Those who do not think that employment is systemic slavery are either blind or employed. (Nassim Taleb)
www.moneyasdebt.net
http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/ |
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acrobat74 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 836
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blackcat Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 2376
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: |
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http://www.richardccook.com/articles.php
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=COO200 70511&articleId=5615
Quote: | Monetary Reform and How a National Monetary System Should Work
by Richard C. Cook May 11, 2007
“the U.S. financial system headed by the Federal Reserve System has failed, and…only an emergency program of monetary reform can address conditions which may be leading to a catastrophe like the Great Depression or worse.”
Note that all the banks of the Western world are ultimately private institutions owned by the world’s super-rich. The international banking structure is operated by and on behalf of the world’s monetary elite primarily for their own profit. |
Full article at link above.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=COO200 70426&articleId=5494
Quote: | An Emergency Program of Monetary Reform for the United States
by Richard C. Cook April 26, 2007
The author of this independent report worked for the Carter White House and NASA, then spent 21 years with the U.S. Treasury Department. In the report, he explains that the U.S. financial system headed by the Federal Reserve System has failed and that only an emergency program of monetary reform can address conditions which may be leading to a catastrophe like the Great Depression or worse. Such an assessment has become increasingly familiar as economic storm clouds continue to gather. But the analysis and recommendations contained in the report may be surprising, even to many progressives.
The mass media show attractive images of the comfortable lifestyles of the upper income earners who benefit from the cash-rich global economy. Which luxury car to drive, which championship golf course to frequent, which hedge funds to invest in, which stock brokers to consult—good questions if you’ve got the money! But behind this attractive scenery, debt, bankruptcy, and poverty are a tsunami that is overwhelming much of the world’s population, including growing numbers in the U.S.
Following close on the heels of these calamities is a worldwide breakdown in law and order. Drug dealing, money laundering, gangsterism, white collar crime, political corruption, weapons trafficking, human slavery, terrorism, and endemic warfare are the dark side of a global financial system where everything has a price, the rich seem above the law, and individual security is almost impossible to attain.
The CEO of one of our leading brokerage houses received over $53 million in bonuses in 2006. Not far from his plush Wall Street office, veterans of two Iraq wars sleep in homeless shelters.......But one thing is connected to another. A good investigator always asks, “Who benefits?” The most salient feature of our financial system is that the creation of new purchasing power through credit—loans, mortgages, credit cards, etc.—is controlled by private financial institutions ..........
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Full article at above link.
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/1232/81/
Quote: | The Basic Income Guarantee and Monetary Reform: A Tale of Two Ideas
Written by Richard C. Cook Saturday, 24 March 2007
“The Basic Income Guarantee and Monetary Reform: A Tale of Two Ideas”
A speech to the U.S. BIG Network Annual Conference in New York on February 23, 2007, by Richard C. Cook |
Read it at above link.
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb07/Cook18.htm
Quote: | Time to Change America by Challenging
Economic Fundamentals
by Richard C. Cook
In this article, I will examine the unfolding disaster, starting with our domestic economy, then propose solutions based on the best thinking of cutting edge movements. Political progressives should take these ideas seriously. By a "political progressive," I mean anyone who wants to solve the deepening crisis without a major war. |
_________________ "The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell. |
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