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Stalin's Jews

 
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blackcat
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:31 am    Post subject: Stalin's Jews Reply with quote

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

I am not posting this to bash Jews or be controversial but to show that there are Jews who see themselves as no different to anyone else, as does the writer of this article. They have suffered no more or less than anyone else and been no less guilty of the less desirable traits that bedevil humanity. In short they are no different, and the constant never ending reference to the Holocaust that seeks to elevate their suffering above that of the rest of humanity has got to be seen for what it is, a political tool to justify the present day pogrom of the Palestinians.

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Stalin's Jews

We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

Published: 12.21.06, 23:35 / Israel Opinion

Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.

Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.

We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.

Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.

In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.

Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.

All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened
to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.

And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."

Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.

Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.

Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.

In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.

The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.

Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin.

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isfahan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They have suffered no more or less than anyone else and been no less guilty of the less desirable traits that bedevil humanity.


That misleading statement is typical of the disinformation campaign. While it is true that it is not only the Jews who have suffered from persecution or who have undergone a Holocaust it is unavoidably true that the Jewish people have undergone centuries of terror from a Christian Europe culminating in an obscene climax of horror at the hands of the Nazis.


Kristalnacht

No amount of whitewashing by comments such as the one I quote above will eradicate that reality.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isfahan wrote:
Quote:
They have suffered no more or less than anyone else and been no less guilty of the less desirable traits that bedevil humanity.


That misleading statement is typical of the disinformation campaign. While it is true that it is not only the Jews who have suffered from persecution or who have undergone a Holocaust it is unavoidably true that the Jewish people have undergone centuries of terror from a Christian Europe culminating in an obscene climax of horror at the hands of the Nazis.


Kristalnacht

No amount of whitewashing by comments such as the one I quote above will eradicate that reality.


Historical aggresion from Christian Europe against Jews?

What about historical aggresion from Christian Europe against the Islamic world?

The Hindu world?

North America?

South America?

The Chinese?

The Cathars?

Anyone printing or reading their own bible?

Tyrants do it to their own before they get their own to do it to others

Regardless, how do you qualify the oppression of one human being against the oppression of any other?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Historical aggresion from Christian Europe against Jews?

What about historical aggresion from Christian Europe against the Islamic world?

The Hindu world?

North America?

South America?

The Chinese?

The Cathars?

Anyone printing or reading their own bible?

Tyrants do it to their own before they get their own to do it to others


Agreed. I was referring specifically to centuries of Christian persecution of Jews. That in no way lessens their crimes against others.

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Regardless, how do you qualify the oppression of one human being against the oppression of any other?


Again, I was addressing a statement which is manifestly false and misleading. It is one thing to be a holocaust revisionist and another to be a holocaust denier. The statement I challenged effectively denied that a holocaust took place.

The only qualification I can see that applies here is that the Nazi holocaust was planned genocide. It wasn't the first example of such in history but the one which was being referred to in the entirely spurious reference, "They have suffered no more or less than anyone else ..."

They suffered terribly and shame on anyone who seeks to deny this.
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Andrew.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about people over thousands of years pretending to be Christian.Perhaps more recently people such as George Scherff (Bush)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Again, I was addressing a statement which is manifestly false and misleading. It is one thing to be a holocaust revisionist and another to be a holocaust denier.


Well thats fine and I certainly agree

Quote:
The statement I challenged effectively denied that a holocaust took place.


But this I dont see on what's been posted on this thread

Quote:
The only qualification I can see that applies here is that the Nazi holocaust was planned genocide. It wasn't the first example of such in history but the one which was being referred to in the entirely spurious reference, "They have suffered no more or less than anyone else ..."

They suffered terribly and shame on anyone who seeks to deny this.


Indeed the Bolshevik repression (mass murder on massive scale) of the Russian peasantry springs immediately to mind
For me its notions of "Race" which are spurious, and entirely illusionary, based only in the cultural conditioning with which people see themselves and see others

There is no "anyone else": there is only "us"

A crime against one of us is a crime against all of us: no matter the cultural identity of the person or group perpetrating it

The suffering of "Jews" can NEVER justify the policies of the current Israeli state: that's my position: on that basis there is no real value referencing it at all in that context, the moral issues are unconnected. Wrong is wrong and the totally illegal occupation and oppression of Palestine is wrong

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isfahan wrote:
The statement I challenged effectively denied that a holocaust took place.

Cr@p!! I am SICK of having to respond to that lie. I posted ANOTHER person's (A Jew) article in which he mentions other holocausts and there have been a multitude in history. I say that the Jews are NOT a special case but that is NOT the same as denying they were targetted for genocide. You KNOW that but play the "Get out of jail card" at every opportunity!! Jews are no better and no worse than anyone else. They have no more innate talent or lack of it and they have NOT done any more good or evil than anyone else nor have they been the victim of evil more than anyone else. They are the SAME as anyone else.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moving to other controversies

please take note Blackcat

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