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James Madison Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 129
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: Independent WTC1/2/7 Controlled Demolition Probe |
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8 House Members View Draft Bill on Independent Science/Tech Probe of WTC 1, 2, 7 Collapses
by Dr. Barbara Ellis
Page 1 of 22 page(s)
www.opednews. com
A draft bill setting up an independent science and technology investigation into the destruction of World Trade Center buildings 1, 2, and 7 to mandate construction- code changes was presented Sept. 16-17 in Washington D.C. by three Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice for consideration to eight House members and the director and staff of the House Science and Technology committee.[1]
The bill proposes a 25-member committee with subpoena power, selected from the national and international community of renown scientists, structural engineers, architects, and other technological specialists including those in demolition, advanced weaponry, and 9/11 first-responders.[2]
The proposed legislation was researched and authored by four members of the Scholars for 9/11 Truth organization from Oregon and Maryland.[3]
The pdf of the suggested bill is at the end of this article.
Presentations were made to science and technology legislative staffers of House members Reps. Rush Holt (D-NJ-12), Jay Inslee (D-WA-1), Walter Jones (R-NC-3), Dan Lipinski (D-IL-3), Jim McGovern (D-MA-3), Ed Markey (D-MA-7, Dana Rohrabacker (R-CA-46), and John Tierney (D-MA-6). Two are members of the House Science and Technology committee: Lipinski is vice chair, and Rohrabacker is the third-ranking Republican. Only one staffer (Tierney’s) was disinterested. Another (Rohrabacker’ s) asked the presenters for an additional hour of discussion.[4]
The bill’s aim is to investigate the 14 major theories about what destroyed WTC 1, 2, and 7 that have been widely circulating nationally and internationally since September 2001, and, secondly, to urge Congressional action to mandate federal building-code changes for high-rise buildings (115+ feet ) both before construction or in remodeling the more than the existing 16,000.[5]
They made three points in the presentation:
• That determination of the cause(s) of WTC 1, 2, 7 collapses are vital for a federally mandated national change in building codes for high-rise structures consistent with the investigation’ s findings.
• That previous investigations on the collapses were either significantly limited, as was that of the 9/11 Commission in 2004 and the Federal Emergency Management agency (FEMA) in 2002. Two later studies by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)—2005 on WTC 1/2 and 2008 on WTC 7— at an estimated public cost of $50 million have been judged by scientific and technical experts to be significantly limited, biased, and heavily flawed in fundamental research methods.[6]
• That both national and international demands are growing for a substantive science and technology investigation by an independent group to determine the collapse cause(s).
If this proposed bill—with a $10 million price tag—is accepted by one or several House members, it will be revised for hoppering in the next session of Congress and presumably assigned to the 40-member House Science and Technology committee for hearings and a vote. If passed, it will move to a House floor vote and, from there, to the Senate committee for the same process. If signed into law by the next President, the House committee will select 25-member investigation group giving it subpoena power to probe the 14 theories of collapses to determine the cause(s). They will have a six-month deadline to issue a report on findings for recommendations to Congress mandating federal codes for developers, builders, and remodelers of high-rise buildings.
The draft bill’s origins stemmed from 2007 correspondence between Joel S. Hirschhorn, Ph.D. and Oregon attorney Virginia Ross. Hirschhorn was a former professor of engineering at the University of Wisconsin/Madison before becoming a Capitol Hill veteran as a senior associate at the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment. He was involved in providing expertise, drafting bills, and appearing in hearings as an expert witness on technology issues. Ross is former Air Force officer and an expert and lecturer on 9/11 events, and member of the Portland 911 Truth Alliance organization.
The two were among the thousands of science and technology experts questioning as limited, significantly flawed and largely implausible preliminary reports on the WTC collapses issued by FEMA and NIST indicating fire was the cause. This conclusion has even run counter to President George Bush’s press- conference statement in mid-September 2006 that “explosives” might have been planted in the three buildings. To draft and promote a bill to Congress, Ross contacted Portland’s three Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice: Barry Ball, Barbara G. Ellis, Ph.D., and Warren Pease.[7]
Their draft bill took months of research, discussion, and writing before the final draft was sent for review and changes to Hirschhorn and 22 nationally recognized experts either on the 9/11 event or renown in the scientific and technological fields about the collapses. Among them were three other Scholars in the vanguard of science and technology field issuing the initial adverse verdicts on NIST’s August 2008 report about the WTC 7.[8]
The last step was determining which of the 435 U.S. House members might have interest in and/or expertise in building-code safety regulations or in settling the 9/11 controversy concerning the WTC collapses. That involved a content analyses of every bill that members hoppered from January 2007 to August 2008 regardless of party affiliation. They followed up by the September trip to Washington, D.C. to talk to the Representative’ s science and technology legislative assistants.
Post 9/11 Code Changes for High-Rise Buildings
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22
Dr. Ellis is the principal of Ellis & Associates, LLC, a writers group in Portland OR, a nominee for a Pulitzer Prize in history in 2004, and a former journalism professor at Louisiana's McNeese State University and Oregon State University. She is an active member of the South Side DFA MeetUp Group of Portland and a Scholar for 9/11 Truth & Justice as well as the PDX 9/11Truth Alliance.
http://www.opednews .com/articles/ 8-House-Members- View-Draft- by-Barbara- Ellis-081018- 925.html |
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gareth Suspended
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 398
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: STJ911 Misrepresented in Draft Bill Sent to 8 House Members |
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http://stj911.org/press_releases/Misrepresentation.html
Quote: | FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Victoria Ashley, STJ911 committee member
Phone: 510-769-5109
Site: www.STJ911.org
Email: stj911@gmail.com
Scholars for 9-11 Truth & Justice Misrepresented in Draft Bill Sent to 8 House Members
Berkeley, CA, October 22, 2008 -- On October 18, 2008, an OpEdNews article titled, "8 House Members View Draft Bill on Independent Science/Tech Probe of WTC 1, 2, 7 Collapses," was published by four members of the group Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice (STJ911.org). The authors of the article and draft bill are not spokespersons for Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice, and therefore are individually responsible for it.
Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice does not endorse the draft bill due to the inclusion of numerous unscientific claims and misrepresentations, and condemns in the strongest of terms any associations between the organization and the claims presented by the authors of this bill. As stated at the front page of their website, Scholars for 9-11 Truth and Justice "take[s] care to present the strongest, most credible research available..."
While in agreement with the authors of this bill that a new investigation into the tragic events of September 11, 2001 is warranted, representatives of the Scholars group note that the draft bill and article lack basic scientific rigor and credibility, with statements such as, "the entire WTC [complex] was destroyed by directed energy weaponry (DEW)," and the ideas that "nuclear materials, missiles or DEW weapons were used." The sister publication of the Scholars group, The Journal of 9/11 Studies (www.JournalOf911Studies.com), has numerous peer-reviewed scientific articles refuting such claims.
Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice believes that a much better bill can be crafted using the strong analysis in articles by its members, several of which are recently published in scientific journals, including The Open Civil Engineering Journal, The Environmentalist, and the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.
Kevin Ryan, a former Underwriters Laboratories (UL) manager who was fired in 2004 for publicly questioning the NIST report, and a committee member of the Scholars' group, says the bill is harmful to the cause of exposing the truth. "Basically," he said, "asking Congress to investigate many poorly defined, and highly implausible hypotheses minimizes the chances that Congress would be willing or able to investigate the actual evidence for the demolition of three WTC buildings." In fact, the bill also omits any mention of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee, which provided hundreds of questions left unanswered by the 9/11 Commission.
Scholars' member Dr. Steven E. Jones, a Professor of Physics, also notes that statements attributed to him in the bill are "errors . . . misrepresenting my published statements." Dr. Jones goes on to say, "It is unacceptable to misrepresent my views, as is done in this document by Ellis et al., and to ignore my published technical papers in established journals."
Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization of over 500 independent researchers analyzing the September 11, 2001 attacks with a strong emphasis on the scientific method.
For information: http://www.stj911.com or
Contact: stj911@gmail.com
Phone: 510-769-5109
# # # |
_________________ www.truthaction.org/forum
www.wearechange.org.uk |
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TonyGosling Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
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James Madison Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 129
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: STJ911 Misrepresented in Draft Bill Sent to 8 House Memb |
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Train Wreck
This press release is turning the Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice into a train wreck.
They Need To Either:
* work with Dr. Ellis & the 8 congressional staffs to remove the offending portion of the draft bill
* let the investigative committee debunk the Judy Woods nonsense
* or send Gage, Jones, and Ryan to congress to do their own draft bill. |
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gareth Suspended
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 398
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: STJ911 Misrepresented in Draft Bill Sent to 8 House Memb |
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Rolf Lindgren aka James Madison aka Galileo wrote: | They Need To Either: |
Why is Kevin Barretts PR representative telling Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice what to do?
Quote: | The authors of the article and draft bill are not spokespersons for Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice, and therefore are individually responsible for it.
Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice does not endorse the draft bill due to the inclusion of numerous unscientific claims and misrepresentations, and condemns in the strongest of terms any associations between the organization and the claims presented by the authors of this bill. As stated at the front page of their website, Scholars for 9-11 Truth and Justice "take[s] care to present the strongest, most credible research available..."
While in agreement with the authors of this bill that a new investigation into the tragic events of September 11, 2001 is warranted, representatives of the Scholars group note that the draft bill and article lack basic scientific rigor and credibility, with statements such as, "the entire WTC [complex] was destroyed by directed energy weaponry (DEW)," and the ideas that "nuclear materials, missiles or DEW weapons were used." The sister publication of the Scholars group, The Journal of 9/11 Studies (www.JournalOf911Studies.com), has numerous peer-reviewed scientific articles refuting such claims.
Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice believes that a much better bill can be crafted using the strong analysis in articles by its members, several of which are recently published in scientific journals, including The Open Civil Engineering Journal, The Environmentalist, and the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.
Kevin Ryan, a former Underwriters Laboratories (UL) manager who was fired in 2004 for publicly questioning the NIST report, and a committee member of the Scholars' group, says the bill is harmful to the cause of exposing the truth. "Basically," he said, "asking Congress to investigate many poorly defined, and highly implausible hypotheses minimizes the chances that Congress would be willing or able to investigate the actual evidence for the demolition of three WTC buildings." In fact, the bill also omits any mention of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee, which provided hundreds of questions left unanswered by the 9/11 Commission.
Scholars' member Dr. Steven E. Jones, a Professor of Physics, also notes that statements attributed to him in the bill are "errors . . . misrepresenting my published statements." Dr. Jones goes on to say, "It is unacceptable to misrepresent my views, as is done in this document by Ellis et al., and to ignore my published technical papers in established journals."
Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization of over 500 independent researchers analyzing the September 11, 2001 attacks with a strong emphasis on the scientific method. |
_________________ www.truthaction.org/forum
www.wearechange.org.uk |
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dewstru Suspended
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Why this violent opposition to theories that exotic weaponry caused the two towers to turn into dust fountains as we all witnessed ith our own eyes? totally unpecedented structural failure gravity collapses?
I don't get it!?! |
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gareth Suspended
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 398
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: Misrepresentation |
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dewstru wrote: | Why this violent opposition...? |
?
dewstru wrote: | I don't get it!?! |
http://stj911.org/press_releases/Misrepresentation.html
Quote: | Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice does not endorse the draft bill due to the inclusion of numerous unscientific claims and misrepresentations, and condemns in the strongest of terms any associations between the organization and the claims presented by the authors of this bill. As stated at the front page of their website, Scholars for 9-11 Truth and Justice "take[s] care to present the strongest, most credible research available..."
While in agreement with the authors of this bill that a new investigation into the tragic events of September 11, 2001 is warranted, representatives of the Scholars group note that the draft bill and article lack basic scientific rigor and credibility, with statements such as, "the entire WTC [complex] was destroyed by directed energy weaponry (DEW)," and the ideas that "nuclear materials, missiles or DEW weapons were used." The sister publication of the Scholars group, The Journal of 9/11 Studies (www.JournalOf911Studies.com), has numerous peer-reviewed scientific articles refuting such claims[1].
Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice believes that a much better bill can be crafted using the strong analysis in articles by its members, several of which are recently published in scientific journals, including The Open Civil Engineering Journal, The Environmentalist, and the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.
Kevin Ryan, a former Underwriters Laboratories (UL) manager who was fired in 2004 for publicly questioning the NIST report, and a committee member of the Scholars' group, says the bill is harmful to the cause of exposing the truth. "Basically," he said, "asking Congress to investigate many poorly defined, and highly implausible hypotheses minimizes the chances that Congress would be willing or able to investigate the actual evidence for the demolition of three WTC buildings." |
[1]A Brief Analysis of Dr. Judy Wood’s Request for Correction to NIST: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly By Dr. Greg Jenkins Co-author: Arabesque
Video.Google Interview with Dr. Judy Wood and Dr. Greg Jenkins – National Press Club, Jan 10, 2007
INTERVIEW WITH DR. JUDY WOOD AND DR. GREG JENKINS: National Press Club, Washington, DC, January 10th 2007 - Transcript by Arabesque; Analysis by Dr. Greg Jenkins and Arabesque
The Overwhelming Implausibility of Using Directed Energy Beams to Demolish the World Trade Center Towers by Dr. Greg Jenkins, co-author Matt Sullivan
Hard Evidence Repudiates the Hypothesis that Mini-Nukes Were Used on the WTC Towers by Dr. Steven E. Jones _________________ www.truthaction.org/forum
www.wearechange.org.uk |
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dewstru Suspended
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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At the risk of again being accused of complicity with the 9/11 guilty endeavouring to discredit and divide people who question the official 9/11 story, go look at film of the WTC1 720ft 'spire' momentarily left standing after the north tower collapse' vaporise. Are people saying It fell into a 720 ground level hole that suddenly appeared causing it to fall UPRIGHT? |
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gruts Major Poster
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 1050
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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lol - is "vaporised" the same as "dustified" - or has the "theory" changed? _________________ Nyetu pravdy v Isvyestyakh i nyetu isvyestyi v Pravde |
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James Madison Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: STJ911 Misrepresented in Draft Bill Sent to 8 House Memb |
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gareth wrote: | Rolf Lindgren aka James Madison aka Galileo wrote: | They Need To Either: |
Why is Kevin Barretts PR representative telling Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice what to do?
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Ever heard of freedom of speech? I can say whatever I want to about the STJ911 press release.
If you don't want people to comment on your press releases, don't release them to the public.
This STJ911 press release is pathetic. The draft bill of Dr. Ellis does not "promote" any theory about the WTC. It doesn't "promote" the NIST version, it doesn't "promote" the Jones/Hoffman/Ryan/Gage version, nor does it "promote" the Woods version.
What it does promote is a real investigation.
STJ911 should have issued a press release where they didn't agree with the draft bill as is, that they supported the independent investigation, but opposed the Woods portion.
The fact that they did not do this shows that they are do-nothing control freaks, doing a very lame job of promoting the truth about 9/11. |
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James Madison Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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dewstru wrote: | At the risk of again being accused of complicity with the 9/11 guilty endeavouring to discredit and divide people who question the official 9/11 story, go look at film of the WTC1 720ft 'spire' momentarily left standing after the north tower collapse' vaporise. Are people saying It fell into a 720 ground level hole that suddenly appeared causing it to fall UPRIGHT? |
The spire was cut by thermite like substances. It was the remains from core column rows # 7 and # 8. These are the column rows not next to the elevator shafts, and were thinner than core column rows # 5, # 6, # 9, and # 10. |
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James Madison Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Misrepresentation |
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gareth wrote: | dewstru wrote: | Why this violent opposition...? |
?
dewstru wrote: | I don't get it!?! |
http://stj911.org/press_releases/Misrepresentation.html
Quote: | Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice does not endorse the draft bill due to the inclusion of numerous unscientific claims and misrepresentations, and condemns in the strongest of terms any associations between the organization and the claims presented by the authors of this bill. As stated at the front page of their website, Scholars for 9-11 Truth and Justice "take[s] care to present the strongest, most credible research available..."
While in agreement with the authors of this bill that a new investigation into the tragic events of September 11, 2001 is warranted, representatives of the Scholars group note that the draft bill and article lack basic scientific rigor and credibility, with statements such as, "the entire WTC [complex] was destroyed by directed energy weaponry (DEW)," and the ideas that "nuclear materials, missiles or DEW weapons were used." The sister publication of the Scholars group, The Journal of 9/11 Studies (www.JournalOf911Studies.com), has numerous peer-reviewed scientific articles refuting such claims[1].
Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice believes that a much better bill can be crafted using the strong analysis in articles by its members, several of which are recently published in scientific journals, including The Open Civil Engineering Journal, The Environmentalist, and the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.
Kevin Ryan, a former Underwriters Laboratories (UL) manager who was fired in 2004 for publicly questioning the NIST report, and a committee member of the Scholars' group, says the bill is harmful to the cause of exposing the truth. "Basically," he said, "asking Congress to investigate many poorly defined, and highly implausible hypotheses minimizes the chances that Congress would be willing or able to investigate the actual evidence for the demolition of three WTC buildings." |
[1]A Brief Analysis of Dr. Judy Wood’s Request for Correction to NIST: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly By Dr. Greg Jenkins Co-author: Arabesque
Video.Google Interview with Dr. Judy Wood and Dr. Greg Jenkins – National Press Club, Jan 10, 2007
INTERVIEW WITH DR. JUDY WOOD AND DR. GREG JENKINS: National Press Club, Washington, DC, January 10th 2007 - Transcript by Arabesque; Analysis by Dr. Greg Jenkins and Arabesque
The Overwhelming Implausibility of Using Directed Energy Beams to Demolish the World Trade Center Towers by Dr. Greg Jenkins, co-author Matt Sullivan
Hard Evidence Repudiates the Hypothesis that Mini-Nukes Were Used on the WTC Towers by Dr. Steven E. Jones |
If you're trying to imply that I agree with Judy Woods theory, you're dead wrong. I do not agree with her theory.
Since she is a published PhD mechanical engineer, it would be nice if her theory could be debunked by a real investigation. |
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dewstru Suspended
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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James Madison wrote: | dewstru wrote: | At the risk of again being accused of complicity with the 9/11 guilty endeavouring to discredit and divide people who question the official 9/11 story, go look at film of the WTC1 720ft 'spire' momentarily left standing after the north tower collapse' vaporise. Are people saying It fell into a 720 ground level hole that suddenly appeared causing it to fall UPRIGHT? |
The spire was cut by thermite like substances. It was the remains from core column rows # 7 and # 8. These are the column rows not next to the elevator shafts, and were thinner than core column rows # 5, # 6, # 9, and # 10. |
...er, so this was why the north tower 'SPIRE' stood rigid(unlike the other core columns) momentarily, then fell UPRIGHT??!!?? Cutting a "thinner" core section with thermite/ate at its base causes it to fall UPRIGHT?? sorry does not compute, you'll have to be more specific.
There's a youtube going round showing some other WTC1 core sections falling , as you'd expect, like felled trees, but they ALSO seem to have vapourised to dust before they hit the ground. I think the youtube is called... 'wtc1 inner core collapse, have you seen it?'. |
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gruts Major Poster
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 1050
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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James Madison wrote: | Since she is a published PhD mechanical engineer, it would be nice if her theory could be debunked by a real investigation. |
having a PhD in one discipline doesn't somehow make you an expert in another - just as the ability to speak English doesn't somehow make you fluent in chinese. she's no more qualified to talk about undefined exotic weaponry "dustifying" the wtc steel than you or I, so what makes you think her rather flawed ideas are worth taking seriously?
for example - if a large percentage of the wtc steel was "dustified" there would have been significant quantities of this "dustified steel" in the the dust that ended up coating half of manhattan after the towers were destroyed.
as far as I remember, sample analysis showed that the iron content of the wtc dust was very low. if this is true then the whole idea that the towers were "dustified" is a non-starter.
have judy wood and her admirers checked this evidence and drawn any conclusions from it?
I couldn't find anything about it on her website.... _________________ Nyetu pravdy v Isvyestyakh i nyetu isvyestyi v Pravde |
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dewstru Suspended
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well what does 220 storeys x 1 acre construction steel look like in collapsed form? even if some fell in a large radius, a bit more than a couple of feet in height I suggest. Obvious question but was there ever a proper audit of the salvaged WTC1 and 2 steel? |
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gruts Major Poster
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 1050
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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how about answering my questions instead of avoiding them?
what exactly do you mean by "vaporised"? is it the same as "dustified" - or has the "theory" changed?
and if such a huge amount of steel was turned to dust, you'd expect the iron content of the wtc dust to be pretty significant.
could you please show me some evidence that it was?
as I said above, I couldn't find anything about this issue on judy wood's website. and as it's somewhat fundamental to the credibility of her "theory" that really is quite amazing.
do you think she might be avoiding this area of investigation for some reason, or did it just not occur to her? _________________ Nyetu pravdy v Isvyestyakh i nyetu isvyestyi v Pravde |
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dewstru Suspended
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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How about YOU answering the question "how does a 720ft core section fall UPRIGHT unless a 720ft hole has suddenly formed to accomodate this fall?" (the WTC went down 6 storeys to bedrock I understand)
How about YOU answering the question what does 220 1 acre floors of structural steel look like in collapsed form and was it all audited and accounted for in the salvage operation?
I don't know why you've got this apparent neurotic hangup about the speculative terms dustification and vapourisation, seems like semantics to me. Fetzer has described what we all clearly saw happened to the 'spire' as "turned to anti-matter" I've heard said(by someone I suspect was a genuine shill tho').
How much of the dust rose into the upper atmosphere, is this usual with thermate/ite controlled demolition? |
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gruts Major Poster
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 1050
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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your questions have already been discussed to death in the "controversies" section.
on the other hand I've never seen any evidence whatsoever that the wtc dust contained significant quantities of iron. if you have any, please post it. I'm not holding my breath though.... _________________ Nyetu pravdy v Isvyestyakh i nyetu isvyestyi v Pravde |
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dewstru Suspended
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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These questions may have been discussed "to death"on the controversies forum but I'm not holding my breath waiting for Y-O-U to A-N-S-W-E-R them
I understand Dr Wood disputes the validity of the WTC dust samples officially taken as they were corrupted a days heavy rain altering their composition.Doesn't she theorise much material was reduced to 'nanoparticles' and floated to the upper atmosphere? the WTC tower aluminium facias and paper didn't seem to be affected by whatever brought down those towers.
I think we're all agreed plain old gravity didn't cause the curious mode of those collapses. |
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James Madison Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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gruts wrote: | James Madison wrote: | Since she is a published PhD mechanical engineer, it would be nice if her theory could be debunked by a real investigation. |
having a PhD in one discipline doesn't somehow make you an expert in another - just as the ability to speak English doesn't somehow make you fluent in chinese. she's no more qualified to talk about undefined exotic weaponry "dustifying" the wtc steel than you or I, so what makes you think her rather flawed ideas are worth taking seriously?
for example - if a large percentage of the wtc steel was "dustified" there would have been significant quantities of this "dustified steel" in the the dust that ended up coating half of manhattan after the towers were destroyed.
as far as I remember, sample analysis showed that the iron content of the wtc dust was very low. if this is true then the whole idea that the towers were "dustified" is a non-starter.
have judy wood and her admirers checked this evidence and drawn any conclusions from it?
I couldn't find anything about it on her website.... |
You seem a lot more interested in Judy Wood than I am. I have not read through her theories in detail. Whatever they are, I'd like to see them officially debunked, since she has a PhD in mechanical engineering. |
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Stefan Banned
Joined: 29 Aug 2006 Posts: 1219
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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dewstru,
You're speaking as though the lowest part of the "spire" we see is at ground level - it's not - it falls out of view behind buildings which in London or any other city would dwarf everything else around. We don't know how it behaves once out of site -
As has been said - talk a walk around controversies and you will find all of this explained... _________________
Peace and Truth |
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James Madison Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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dewstru wrote: | How about YOU answering the question "how does a 720ft core section fall UPRIGHT unless a 720ft hole has suddenly formed to accomodate this fall?" (the WTC went down 6 storeys to bedrock I understand)
How about YOU answering the question what does 220 1 acre floors of structural steel look like in collapsed form and was it all audited and accounted for in the salvage operation?
I don't know why you've got this apparent neurotic hangup about the speculative terms dustification and vapourisation, seems like semantics to me. Fetzer has described what we all clearly saw happened to the 'spire' as "turned to anti-matter" I've heard said(by someone I suspect was a genuine shill tho').
How much of the dust rose into the upper atmosphere, is this usual with thermate/ite controlled demolition? |
You can not see much of the spire above the giant smoke cloud. The spire falls into the smoke cloud, out of view, it does not "disintrgrate".
There were many 50-foot and even 100-foot long chunks of steel found in the rubble. Given that the crime scene was not preserved and most of the steel was shipped to Asia, we do not have an accurate accounting of the longest pieces of steel.
The core columns were cut. There were no raybeams. |
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dewstru Suspended
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry none of you have convinced me, Stefan seems to be saying the WTC1 'spire' fell into a mid air hole??? we see it fall UPRIGHT the 13 floors above WTC7 and half the height appx' of building seven 23.5 + 13=36.5 floors=438 feet UPRIGHT till the pulverisation cloud conceals it, the towers went down 72 ft appx' to bedrock.
Dr. Wood's 9/11 theories match the facts better than anything I've heard to date, check out the youtube '9/11 the new hiroshima', before I saw it I was like you people mouthing 'spacebeams' and 'screwball' etc anytime anyone mentioned Dr.Wood. I don't think there's any proof she's a shill, the youtube 'Hutchison effect and 9/11 part 1g' reveals how Mike Rudin tried to recruit her for the WTC7 BBC hitpiece, but she told him what to do with himself! |
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politicstahl New Poster
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: The 'spire' |
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What is onservable about the spire is that it retains its approximate shape while it moves vertically downward, just as Building 7 did. While an otherwise unexplained 'hole' might account for this motion, a more familiar explanation might be that the bottom portion was being converted from a solid to, in effect, a fluid, just as in Bldg. 7. What seems inexplicable without resort to Hutchison-type effects is the fact that it visibly becomes less solid-appearing, and apparently turns to dust or smoke while moving downward and more or less retaining its shape. |
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