Unreacted thermite explosives found in WTC debris

[kbo234]

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19761

So Thermite/Thermate that did not ignite has been found in the debris recovered from the World Trade Centre collapses!

If this doesn't prove the allegations of 9/11 Truthers then what does.

Let's tell the BBC, the Independent, the Guardian. At last a story they cannot ignore.......I don't think.

[scubadiver]

Abstract

[acrobat74]

This looks like smashing news, more strong published peer-reviewed scientific research.

Well done to all involved, you have our gratitude and respect.

The way of the scientific method.


The Open Chemical Physics Journal

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/0000 0001/7TOCPJ.SGM

CONCLUSIONS
Based on these observations, we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.

Authors:
Niels H. Harrit, Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Denmark

Jeffrey Farrer, Department of Physics and Astronomy, Brigham Young University, Provo, UT 84602, USA

Steven E. Jones, S&J Scientific Co., Provo, UT, 84606, USA,

Kevin R. Ryan, 9/11 Working Group of Bloomington, Bloomington, IN 47401, USA

Frank M. Legge, Logical Systems Consulting, Perth, Western Australia

Daniel Farnsworth, Department of Physics and Astronomy, Brigham Young University, Provo, UT 84602, USA

Gregg Roberts, Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Berkeley, CA 94704, USA

James R. Gourley, International Center for 9/11 Studies, Dallas, TX 75231, USA

Bradley R. Larsen, S&J Scientific Co., Provo, UT, 84606, USA


911 blogger article:
http://www.911blogger.com/node/19761

9/11 WTC North Tower Exploding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nc5_5IJek8


@ mods,
Maybe merge this thread with...
http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=17035&highlight=

[Thermate911]

Well this is a pleasant antidote to come home to after the utter futility and pathetic turnout against the G20 meeting.

No doubt yours and scubadiver's post will be combined before long and we might start seeing Reprehensor in a slightly kinder light.

From the article:-

"“Based on these observations, we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”"

But why has it taken so long?

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/0000 0001/7TOCPJ.SGM

[kbo234]

Thanks for that Thermate. Did this information first appear in the February 2009 edition of the magazine? Can't see a clear date on the document.

[Disco_Destroyer]

[Thermate911]

[outsider]

(5-7pm today is 23.00hrs tonight to 01.00hrs tomorrow UK time)

I am pleased to report that Truth Jihad Radio will return to the airwaves tonight, Saturday, April 4th, 5-7 pm Central, on American Freedom Radio, http://www.wfuradio.com .

1st hour: Discussion of the brand-new article "Active Nanotechnologized Thermitic Material..." -- possibly the most important scientific breakthrough yet for 9/11 truth! (See below.) I hope that one or more of the authors will be joining us. (You can hear my recent interviews discussing the article, prior to publication, with co-authors Steven Jones and Kevin Ryan, by going to http://www.noliesradio.org and scrolling down to the archives.)

The article's conclusion is, shall we say, incendiary: "Based on these observations, we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material."


Talk about smoking guns! This, along with the iron-rich microspheres, is hard evidence of controlled demolition.

[item7]

Popular Mechanics will be all over this - fearlessly bringing the latest findings to the American public for vigorous debate. Then there is the government's own investigators. How they must be embarrassed to have missed this during their own thorough analysis of the crime scene. Doubtless they will order an enquiry with no expenses spared to get to the bottom of this.

[QuitTheirClogs]

Visibility 9-11 Welcomes Kevin Ryan and Dr. Steven E. Jones

http://media.libsyn.com/media/visibility911/visibility911_kevinryan030 9.mp3

http://media.libsyn.com/media/visibility911/visibility911_drjones0309. mp3

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19762


Find links to the research paper, these episodes, and watch for other planned interviews on this topic at our Visibility 9-11 Special Report, The Thermite Fingerprint; The Loaded Gun.
http://visibility911.com/reports-thermite01.php


These two important episodes of Visibility 9-11 welcomes back to the program, Kevin Ryan and Physicist Dr. Steven E. Jones.

Our talks today with Kevin and Dr. Jones features an in-depth discussion on a new paper which has been formally published and peer reviewed by The Open Chemical Physics Journal titled Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe. In this revolutionary new research paper, discoveries made in the World Trade Center dust, particularly the red/gray bi-layered chips, are examined in great detail and include evidence of the thermite fingerprint at every juncture.

The research paper ends with this sentence, which pulls no punches when it comes to what the authors believe these red/gray chips to be:

"Based on these observations, we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material."

Kevin Ryan, one of the co-authors of the research paper says,

"My colleagues and I have a new mainstream peer-reviewed paper published today, entitled "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust From the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe". Basically it shows that high tech explosive/pyrotechnic materials are scattered throughout the WTC dust. How can this be?"

Dr. Steven E. Jones another co-author of the paper writes:

"In short, the paper explodes the official story that “no evidence” exists for explosive/pyrotechnic materials in the WTC buildings." The red/gray chips are the "loaded gun" of 9-11.

[Linda]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13049

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

Below is the Abstract, Introduction and Conclusions of this important and carefully researched article

The complete article can be downloaded (pdf)


Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

pp.7-31 (25)

Authors: Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley, Bradley R. Larsen

The Open Chemical Physics Journal

Volume 2

ISSN: 1874-4125

doi: 10.2174/1874412500902010007

Complete Article

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/0000 0001/7TOCPJ.SGM


Abstract:

We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

Global Research Editor's Note

The definition of thermitic material:

A trademark used for a welding and incendiary mixture of fine aluminum powder with a metallic oxide, usually iron, that when ignited yields an intense heat.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Thermite is a pyrotechnic composition of a metal powder and a metal oxide, which produces an aluminothermic reaction known as a thermite reaction. (Wikipedia)

What we are dealing with is the melting/ burning of metal structures.

“Metals are capable of burning under the right conditions, similarly to the combustion process of wood or gasoline. ... A thermite reaction is a process in which the correct mixture of metallic fuels are combined and ignited. Ignition itself requires extremely high temperatures.”

Readers can reach their own conclusions as to the far-reaching implications of these findings.

Although the authors do not address the broader issue of the 9/11 attacks, their findings have a direct bearing on the likely causes of the collapse of the WTC buildings on September 11, 2001. The findings also question the validity of the official report of the 911 Commission.

Below are selected excerpts of the article. Readers can also link to the complete text, by clicking the link

Complete Article

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/0000 0001/7TOCPJ.SGM


EXCERPTS

INTRODUCTION

The destruction of three skyscrapers (WTC 1, 2 and 7) on September 11, 2001 was an immensely tragic catastrophe that not only impacted thousands of people and families directly, due to injury and loss of life, but also provided the motivation for numerous expensive and radical changes in domestic and foreign policy. For these and other reasons, knowing what really happened that fateful day is of grave importance.

A great deal of effort has been put forth by various government-sponsored and -funded investigations, which led, in large part, to the reports released by FEMA [1] and NIST [2]. Other studies of the destruction have been less well publicized but are no less important to the outstanding obligation that remains to the victims of that tragedy, to determine the whole truth of the events of that day [3-10]. A number of these studies have appropriately focused attention on the remaining physical material, and on available photographs and video footage, as sources of evidence still in public hands, relating to the method of destruction of the three skyscrapers.

CONCLUSIONS

We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in significant numbers in dust associated with the World Trade Center destruction. We have applied SEM/XEDS and other methods to characterize the small-scale structure and chemical signature of these chips, especially of their red component. The red material is most interesting and has the following characteristics:

1. It is composed of aluminum, iron, oxygen, silicon and carbon. Lesser amounts of other potentially reactive elements are sometimes present, such as potassium, sulfur, lead, barium and copper.

2. The primary elements (Al, Fe, O, Si, C) are typically all present in particles at the scale of tens to hundreds of nanometers, and detailed XEDS mapping shows intimate mixing.

3. On treatment with methyl ethyl ketone solvent, some segregation of components occurred. Elemental aluminum became sufficiently concentrated to be clearly identified in the pre-ignition material.

4. Iron oxide appears in faceted grains roughly 100 nm across whereas the aluminum appears in thin platelike structures. The small size of the iron oxide particles qualifies the material to be characterized as nanothermite or super-thermite.

5. Analysis shows that iron and oxygen are present in a ratio consistent with Fe2O3. The red material in all four WTC dust samples was similar in this way. Iron oxide was found in the pre-ignition material whereas elemental iron was not.

6. From the presence of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in the red material, we conclude that it contains the ingredients of thermite.

7. As measured using DSC, the material ignites and reacts vigorously at a temperature of approximately 430 °C, with a rather narrow exotherm, matching fairly closely an independent observation on a known super-thermite sample. The low temperature of ignition and the presence of iron oxide grains less than 120 nm show that the material is not conventional thermite (which ignites at temperatures above 900 °C) but very likely a form of super-thermite.

8. After igniting several red/gray chips in a DSC run to 700 °C, we found numerous iron-rich spheres and spheroids in the residue, indicating that a very high temperature reaction had occurred, since the iron-rich product clearly must have been molten to form these shapes. In several spheres, elemental iron was verified since the iron content significantly exceeded the oxygen content. We conclude that a high-temperature reduction-oxidation reaction has occurred in the heated chips, namely, the thermite reaction.

9. The spheroids produced by the DSC tests and by the flame test have an XEDS signature (Al, Fe, O, Si, C) which is depleted in carbon and aluminum relative to the original red material. This chemical signature strikingly matches the chemical signature of the spheroids produced by igniting commercial thermite, and also matches the signatures of many of the microspheres found in the WTC dust [5].

10. The carbon content of the red material indicates that an organic substance is present. This would be expected for super-thermite formulations in order to produce high gas pressures upon ignition and thus make them explosive. The nature of the organic material in these chips merits further exploration. We note that it is likely also an energetic material, in that the total energy release sometimes observed in DSC tests exceeds the theoretical maximum energy of the classic thermite reaction.

Based on these observations, we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.

(emphasis added)

Complete Article

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/0000 0001/7TOCPJ.SGM

[QuitTheirClogs]

Raw Story has published a good summary article:


Scientists find active 'super-thermite' in WTC dust

Joe Byrne -- Published: Saturday April 4, 2009
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Scientists_find_active_superthermite_in_ WTC_0404.html

A team of nine scientists have unearthed startling data from dust gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on 9/11. They discovered that scattered throughout the dust samples were red and gray chips of 'active thermitic material', or an un-reacted pyrotechnic explosive.

“These observations reminded us of nano-thermite fabricated at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and elsewhere; available papers describe this material as an intimate mixture of UFG [Ultra-fine grain] aluminum and iron oxide in nano-thermite composites to form pyrotechnics or explosives. Commercially available thermite behaves as an incendiary when ignited, but when the ingredients are ultra-fine grain and are intimately mixed, this 'nano-thermite' reacts very rapidly, even explosively, and is sometimes referred to as 'super-thermite',” the report explains.

[Thermate911]

Great to see this seminal work spreading around but let's keep it clear in mind that NONE of the american false-flag ops have ever been fully brought to the light of day, so far.

Pacific Railroad v Santa Clara County
Federal Reserve takeover of US 1913
Pearl Harbor
Bay of Pigs
Operation Northwoods
JFK
Gulf of Tonkin
Entebbe
Murrah Building, Oklahoma City
1993 WTC attacks

and quite a few of the 'CIA's greatest hits' besides.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA%20Hits/CIA_GreatestHits.html

Which leads me to suggest that any conclusive international inquiry into 9/11 will have to take place outside of western influence. On Pluto, perhaps?

Strasbourg being a second option, if the Gladio & Mossad crowd could be kept out of the picture! Yeah, right...

I also think it a very sobering exercise to study the efforts of Patrick Fitzgerald v Scooter Libby - such high hopes, such danger Fitz put himself in and all for what? Nada...
http://citizenspook.blogspot.com/2005_07_24_citizenspook_archive.html

So, being practical, looks to me like a 'storming of the Bastille' is the only recourse left but who is going to be hardfooly enough to take on a very organised combination of SAS/Mossad/CIA/MIx goons?

[acrobat74]

Investigation? Erm, I wouldn't hold my breath.

From page 20 of the paper:

[QuitTheirClogs]

Danish science magazine has the WTC nano-thermite paper as its lead story:

Dansk forsker: Eksplosivt nanomateriale fundet i støvet fra World Trade Center
Videnskab.dk

and as its second story:

Niels Harrit: Videnskabeligt bevis for gammel viden om 9/11
Videnskab.dk

and for its third story it asks “Who was behind the assassination of Martin Luther King?”

Hvem stod bag mordet på Martin Luther King?
Videnskab.dk

http://videnskab.dk/content/dk

Google Translation

[acrobat74]

Good catch QTC.

No translation needed for this quote by Professor Harrit, the lead author of the paper:

[chek]

Keep an eye out for Mel Phillips dropping a reference to the Iraqi military's nano-tech explosives research institute into one of her columns if this edges into the mainstream.

She's got form.

[QuitTheirClogs]

Raw Story article “updated and rewritten for balance and clarity”

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Scientists_find_active_superthermite_in_ WTC_0404.html

[acrobat74]

They should, this will get very hairy. We'll see to it.

[QuitTheirClogs]

NIST are up to their necks in nano-thermites.


The Top Ten Connections Between NIST and Nano-Thermites

Kevin R. Ryan, 7-02-08

“Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? … NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.”
NIST Responses to FAQs, August 2006

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has had considerable difficulty determining a politically correct sequence of events for the unprecedented destruction of three World Trade Center (WTC) buildings on 9/11 (Douglas 2006, Ryan 2006, Gourley 2007). But despite a number of variations in NIST’s story, it never considered explosives or pyrotechnic materials in any of its hypotheses. This omission is at odds with several other striking facts; first, the requirement of the national standard for fire investigation (NFPA 921), which calls for testing related to thermite and other pyrotechnics, and second, the extensive experience NIST investigators have with explosive and thermite materials.

[W]hen reading NIST’s reports on the WTC, and its periodic responses to FAQs from the public, one might get the idea that no one in the NIST organization had ever heard of nano-thermites before. But the truth is, many of the scientists and organizations involved in the NIST WTC investigation were not only well aware of nano-thermites, they actually had considerable connection to, and in some cases expertise in, this exact technology.

Here are the top ten reasons why nano-thermites, and nano-thermite coatings, should have come to mind quickly for the NIST WTC investigators…

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16497

D/L pdf of this article at Journal of 9/11 Studies:
http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2008/Ryan_NIST_and_Nano-1.pdf

[Thermate911]

Does anyone else find it odd that news of the Thermite Paper on Open Chemical Physics Journal
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/0000 0001/7TOCPJ.SGM
is not front page centre on some 'progressive' 9/11 websites?

One in particular, www.truthaction.org, refers instead to an article entitled "New Physics: You can't use common sense" - http://www.truthaction.org/?q=node/296

One has to dig into the forum before encountering this thread:
http://truthaction.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=22&sid=91d25cd6bd8d3ee005 5a074ded801f09

A tight-lipped thread, upon the whole. Seems some posters there need to find the time to get around to promulgating this, the first truly scientific 'debanking' of the OCT.

Raw Story's front page link didn't last long, either...

[Thermate911]

Let's see how long this addition to wikipedia lasts:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_controlled_demolition_ conspiracy_theories#External_links

[kbo234]

From the 'Smoking Mirrors' blogspot.
http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/2009/04/magic-thermite-and-911-fair ytale.html


Monday, April 6

Magic Thermite and the 9/11 Fairytale.



Well… there it is in black and white and irrefutable; all three colors complementing truth. This won’t make much difference to those who have gone to such great lengths to deny the truth in the first place. The first place they deny the truth is within themselves and then they are kind enough to extend that courtesy to everyone else; lucky us.



But there it is, scientific proof from the Scholars for 9/11 Truth. This is a clarion call for the weasels and dissimulators to see what kind of lies and obfuscations they can manifest in the face of manifest truth. It’s time for the bombastic, red-faced martini addicts to rail against one more terror organization. This one appears to be terrorizing their ignorance but… it’s not just ignorance, it’s blind support of domestic terror in the service of personal gain and aggrandizement. It’s time for another chorus of the *’s Serenade; time for another lullaby of death.



The last time I was here, I said I didn’t see much in the way of a collective human effort to change the course of the last, however many, years. Well here’s something. Here’s some change we can believe in. Here’s the opportunity to open a crack in your hardpan denial and let in some disinfecting sunlight. Because it appears that 9/11 was an Inside Job… ah…duh.



Yes, those ‘scientists’ have been as busy as a cluster of disappearing honey bees and we are going to see two guaranteed results present themselves in the coming weeks. One of them is no result at all. One of them is the possibility of a complete MSM blackout of this remarkable bit of news and the other… the other; please take your moment to laugh or weep according to your disposition. The other will be new and improved lies and rebuttals that would strain the credulity of a household pet. Unfortunately… in too many cases… this might be the smartest member of the household.



There it is people… thermite where no thermite was supposed to be and which we were told was not present but is indeed present and that means what? Well, it means a few things. It means that the people behind 9/11 who are in charge of the governments of the United States, Israel and Great Britain are going to have to have another 9/11 kind of event to counteract the brushfire that this report is going to cause around the world. The days of being able to block out the publics right to know are gone. This is going to get legs. This is something that can’t be spun.



Thank god, Mr. Small Change we can believe in is tall in the saddle of his hobby horse. They did it. Yes they did. Will we now be hearing that Bin Laden and his numberless crew of non-existent Al Qaeda slipped into the towers and planted the explosives? Maybe they are the ones who took advantage of Marvin Bush’s security firm closing down sections of the towers and security systems in the weeks preceding the attacks. This is the obvious course. The administration is now going to discover new evidence that shows Al Qaeda planted these bombs. What else can they do? Or…



They can blow up something new. Nothing takes your mind off what you were wearing yesterday like something new today. Nothing sweeps everything under the rug as well as setting another part of the house on fire. Of course… even if we do find out the truth we’ve got Chomsky to tell us, “So what?” and “It’s doesn’t matter who did it.” Now that’s what I call a left gatekeeper. I’m past imagining what it takes to be this kind of a person. I can’t imagine what it takes to be in a position of public trust and to murder those entrusted to your care. This is well outside of the parameters of what I can process and understand. Ask me how alien life is on other planets and I can probably be of more help.



Every now and then you get those great partnerships that work together so well; Tinker’s to Evers to Chance, Tippiecanoe and Tyler too, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Rodgers and Astaire, Laurel and Hardy. Here we have The Land of Liberty with The Land of Eternal Victims, joined by The Nation that Invented Slavery, engaged in what they actually do as opposed to how they present themselves. As a wise military man once said, “Every ship of state sails on a river of darkness.”



Murder for profit, combined with treason; what’s the penalty for that? Besides Hellfire, should there prove to be such a place?



What does this show us? What is the most glaring indication that we can extract from this wonderful revelation? It is the indication that much of the ancillary evidence of who is responsible is also true. It ties directly into the further efforts of the psychopaths upon the world’s stage in Afghanistan and Iraq and it points to whoever is most vocal for an assault against Iran. Why not take the time to inquire into who was responsible for orchestrating the wars mentioned and the war pending. The names and agencies you discover were also the architects of 9/11. You might want to also ask yourself if five dancing Afghanis; five dancing Iraqis or five dancing Iranians were discovered in the area of New York City on 9/11. I guess the ones who were can speak for themselves. I had to use this link because this video has been nearly scrubbed from the web. Google “Israeli MOSSAD admitting 9/11 we were trying to document 9/11” to see what I mean and listen to the closing statement on the video.



Now you must consider Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib in connection to 9/11. You must consider ‘rendition’. You must consider what you encounter passing through an airport. You must consider the expensive price of telling the truth at universities and in the workplace. You must consider the disappearance of everything you had before 9/11 occurred and you must consider that it is the people who carried out 9/11 who took these things from you. You must consider the horrendous Kafkaesque condition of those tortured at Guantanamo and around the world for information possessed only by the ones torturing them.



Then perhaps you will consider who heads Homeland Insecurity and who heads the Homeland Insecurity Committee AND you might consider which present president of the United States used to be on that committee; hint... he's not buried in Grant's Tomb. Then perhaps you will consider all manner of things that are hiding in plain site. If you are afraid of the truth, I can understand. It could be that possession of the truth threatens your livelihood and possibly even your freedom. It could be that you are not opposed to living in subjugation to those who caused the fears they are protecting you from. It could be that you don’t want to know because knowing might require some personal sacrifice. And there’s always the slander and mockery. Readers of this site have seen what happens when I post these articles at Zionist Occupied Slate forums as I will this one today.



Whatever one chooses to believe for whatever ones reasons may be it can no longer be denied that the official version of 9/11 is a deliberate lie whose motive was the personal gain of the principals involved. It can no longer be denied that the governments of the United States, Israel and Great Britain are the real axis of evil.



We are on the verge of enormous transformation. People are making their decisions as to whether they will embrace a lie to insure the protection of a life whose quality diminishes by the day or whether they will seek out the truth no matter the cost and perhaps find a life worth living based on a personal honor and dignity worth preserving. One thing one must surely consider, physical life is mortal. It is how you spend it that counts and… what determines the value of the life that was lived.



9/11 was an Inside Job

[Thermate911]

Les Visible in fine form today. Great post, kbo.

[scubadiver]

[acrobat74]

Spot on, excellent posts.

[fish5133]

[quote="scubadiver Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one’s self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.

Michael Rivero[/quote]

In reference to the Jews and Israel the Bible tells how their standing before God fluctuated from that which was pleasing to that which was evil. For other nations a quote that "righteousness exalts a nation but corruption is a reproach" begs the question as to how far does a nation have to go before it crosses that rubicon of being righteous or unrighteous. Irrespective of whether one has a faith or non faith view how far does Government, national or personal corruption have to slide before the bubble bursts.

[scienceplease 2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/10/caught_up_in_a_conspirac y_theo.html?page=6#comments

[Thermate911]

Good to see someone still bothering to keep a watch on what must be the Beeb's longest running thread.

The follow on to what you posted is rather good, too:-

[scienceplease 2]