Dispute between Daniel O and WAC London

[Stefan]

So this event is not happening now?

Maybe Daniel will now agree to meet me for a civil interview where he can "expose" his "devasting" evidence about the two members of We Are Change London who's full names he actually knows?

Or will he just keep making ludicrous claims and refuse to back them up with any form of evidence or logical argument?

The suspense...

[Prole]

[Stefan]

Daniel Obachike has spent the afternoon deleting my messages off his blog.

For anyone interested, what he didn't want his loyal readers to know was the photo he is suggesting is photoshopped of a few members of WAC London walking along with Brian Haw is from the heavily publicised "Peace March" which was featured in the second We Are Change London podcast.

He has dishonestly deleted two posts letting those who read his blog who seem to believe it is photoshopped know it is not - he clearly wants them to keep believeing it is despite the fact that he now knows it is not.

He has also claimed I contacted him to ask his permission to film his talk tomorrow.

This is not true.

I will of course be filming the talk tomorrow and would not ask permission to do so - it is a public event and it is also where Daniel is going to smear several of my friends and my activist group in general. I'm sure everyone would agree I have every right to ask Daniel some questions about what he is saying. Anyone who knows me knows I will of course let him have his say and those questions will be politely phrased.

I did ask Daniel, a good few weeks back when he first started talking nonsense about WAC, to meet for an interview where he could have the full chance to explain his evidence behind the claims. I explained we could both film this so he could not claim to be misrepresented. He ignored the request. In fact he has ignored every attempt of any member of We Are Change London to contact him to talk about his claims. He has also deleted posts from Mohsin from his blog and who knows how many others.

So Daniel, here in public, rather than on your blog where you delete everything you don't want your fans to hear and then make false claims that any disagreement with can be deleted, what do you mean when you say there will be "hedge security"? Do you really think you have any right to stop the people you are accusing of filming it? And why did you not agree weeks ago to meet under civil gentlemanly conditions and discuss this on film like adults?

[Chi_of_life]

Ignore Stefans We Are Change 7/7 Disruption Dis Info

The 7/7 event is going ahead as advertised 100%
Meet at Conway Hall 6.30pm on Tuesday With Dr Kollerstrom - Terror On The Tubes and the BBC documentary will be screened then Q & A.

Stefan your heckling will be met with laughter.
Go and video Andy 'MOD' Baker doing something heroic and tell us why Toseef has locked off his Myspace profile and changed his name to T all of a sudden?

The UK truth movement shall breathe and think for itself once more.

D Obachike

[Chi_of_life]

[Stefan]

Whatever Daniel,
We have video of the entire "Peace March", which you are suggesting never happened. It was publicised on Indymedia, there is a lengthy section on it in the second WAC London podcast, and anyone can go to parliament square and just ask Brian whether or not he walked to Oxford with Andy, Gareth and others. It is common knowledge, there are a lot of things which are common knowledge which you still manage to get completely wrong.

I'm MOD as well now? Tell me what exactly is your criteria for deciding someone is "MOD"? Is it if they disagree with you on something, or is it just not liking the way they look?

I'm not going to "heckle" anyone tonight. I am looking forward to hearing your "evidence" for your wild claims, and expect I will have some questions for you afterwards.

Unauthorised filming? This is a public meeting is it not? What exactly is your problem with me filming it?

Perhaps you plan to edit anything that makes you silly out of it, just like you delete almost all questions and non-sycophantic comments off your blog?

Not a good way to get people to take you seriously...

P.S. You still owe me a fiver

[Chi_of_life]

Just make sure Andy B, Gareth And Toseef show up
Free £5 entry for Andy B in lieu of the fiver owed.


We Are Change is on trial here not the whistleblower.

Daniel

[Stefan]

[TonyGosling]

Stefan,

By adding fuel to this public dispute YOU are the one whose credibility is waning.

This time you have to restrain yourself from insulting 7/7 victims. Whether or not you believe them.

Moving this to a new thread.

[IanFantom]

In any dispute like this we need to take a more detached approach and focus on evidence. Whatever has happened outside that meeting, I can say that no evidence was produced at the meeting. Stefan's reactions were about what I would have expected from someone who was being accused without evidence.

We need also to bear in mind that when someone makes an allegation without evidence of someone being a shill, there is a possibility that that person himself might be a shill. It is not a wise thing to do, even if you are right, unless you do have evidence.

It can also happen that two genuine people are in dispute because of a third party who is attempting to create disruption by quarreling. That, from a shill's point of view, would be the preferred way of doing things.

Bear in mind also, that there is a difference between a working hypothesis and a research finding. In a working environment you may have to go ahead, making certain assumptions, even though you can't prove them. That's different from giving a lecture and presenting your suspicions as fact. Some tolerance in the former situation is required, even if you may be the victim. That's difficult.

We do need evidence. I should have though that a written account from Daniel would have been the best way forward. I think also that we need to clear up exactly what happened concerning the meeting. Who cancelled the meeting at Conway Hall, what bookings had been made for plans B and C, and what monies were paid?

Then perhaps a meeting should be arranged to debate or discuss the issue in a dispassionate way.

[peloloco]

Hi, I am Alan, part of WAC uk from it's start so I know of Daniel and his blog and have been following it. I even did some design for his talk some time back. I haven't read his book yet.

Anyway just to clear a few things up I took the photo of Andy and Brian Haw on our way to Oxford, I retouched it, it is what i do professionally along with high end 3d illustration and painting, here is my website. http://www.alanmurrayimages.com. As far as I am concerned I met the others of WAC at the 911 meetings in a pub in the city and decided to do some street action and give out dvds and flyers, this was before I had even heard of Daniel.

The idea to walk to Oxford came to life when I was interviewing Brian for a radio show we were doing at the time and he told me he was to talk at the University, we came up with the march which took us 4 days, we stayed with quakers along the way and you could see the life come back to Brian as the days went by, country air and a bit of exercise is good for the human spirit and the mind and body.

I still haven't seen any proof that Andy Baker, Gareth or Toseef are agents of the MOD coming from Daniel. Having heard what was on offer from his speech the other day it seems like he needs to do some more research. Now he has on his blog Simon who is basically out there doing his own thing is being accused of being MOD. Simon is one of the most passionate, peaceful, spiritual people I know. He is currently in an eco village which seems like a natural progression from standing on the street shouting, holding signs, protesting to actually finding and living the solution to the problems we face. This is his path and he is walking it. He has never had a mobile for as long as I have known him and very rarely uses the internet these days. I don't even think it would bother him in the slightest what Daniel claims he is.

My father was in the Royal Engineers, he joined when my mother told him she was pregnant with me, he served in N ireland and did a stint in Germany. He got out as soon as he could though and had 9 more children. None of them joined the military, most work in advertising and design as I do.

If Daniel wants to find Andy he should just pick up a paper as he has just squatted the married MP's house who were caught fiddling the expenses.

I was on my way home from work on the tube one day when Daniel poked me in the back, a little harder than friendly so I turned around thinking I might have to lamp someone. When I saw it was him I relaxed and asked him how he was, he said ok and then said "it's all gonna change" then ran off the tube. Thought it a bit weird but hey he has been in an explosion. Now according to Daniel I was trailing him and am according to him I work for MOD Andy. That I find sinister.

I would suggest to Daniel we arrange a meeting, video it, chat about his concerns and clear this up because from what I can see we have a situation where good honest activists are wasting time arguing amongst themselves and a hell of a lot of untruth being thrown about. If he has 100 % proof that any of these people are MOD then I would like to see it as I consider these people to be friends. Or he could carry on fermenting mistrust and even hatred. If he is really searching for the truth then lets sit down like grown adults and hear the evidence and chat.

I can vouch for myself, I am an artist and I sometimes do some activism. Never been involved with HM forces covert or overt.

Gotta go deliver some 7/7 flyers to some activists I know.

Peace

Alan