How to make water burn

[catfish]

That's all you need to know! The simple proof at the bottom of the post is all you need make, but persuading science teachers that they are disinformation agents is hard work! For this you just need a 12v dc power supply, I got one for £2 on the market.

Also if your patient, electrolysis will build up in the cell with just water, but for instant results add some salt, maybe a quarter of a teaspoon, this will produce sodium chloride (I think, your science teacher will know better the names for things) which smells bad. Always do these experiments in a well ventilated room or better yet outside if you can, this isn't really dangerous but always err on the side of caution.

[catfish]

[kbo234]

If 12 Amps at 12 Volts produced 180 litres/hour then going by your figure of Energy/litre(60litres/hr giving 100Wh of energy{It is important to get this number right})

In one hour:

Energy in = 144Wh
Energy out = 300Wh

then, efficiency = 300/144 = 2.08 which is abot 210% efficiency.

This would mean that the water is supplying more energy than you are using from your electrical source and would indeed be 'free energy'.

Best to measure all these quantities accurately though. Then the calculation would have real meaning.

[ConspiracyTheorySceptic]

catfish wrote:

[catfish]

???? I'm not going to even bother, anyone who knows the score can read into this what they will. Those genuinely interested I think I have all your e-mails, I'm not going to prattle on with arguments with brainwashed, armchair scientists. Go back to sleep.

catfish out

[yochanan]

CTS - Have you tried this then? Or are you just assuming that it won’t work because it appears to violate some man made laws that scientists now take as gospel? Unless you have personally tried this and proven it wrong or can provide links to people who have tried it and proven it wrong then fine. If not be quiet and crawl back under your rock.
Peace, Yochanan.

[ConspiracyTheorySceptic]

yochanan wrote:

[catfish]

1807 - Francois Isaac de Rivaz - google this guy....

Issac de Rivaz (Switzerland), designed several successful steam-run cars towards the late 18th century. In 1807 he designed an "internal combustion engine".The engine was gas driven and used a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen to generate energy.

de Rivaz used this engine to develop a car, and the occasion was historic. This was the first vehicle to run on an internal combustion engine. In subsequent years Rivaz worked on his design, and in 1813 developed a 6 metres long car, weighing almost a ton.

Nikola Tesla - google this guy aswell.....

Nikola Tesla was the modern discoverer of high voltage AC current but was forced to sell his patents due to lack of funds and debts to investors. The Central Electricity Board was established in 1926 in Britain which basically forbade the use of any other electricity than that supplied by the electric grid, interested party's were Winston Churchill, and Stanley Baldwin the prime minister of the day, these events were part of the cause of the general strike when martial law was employed in this country in 1926, Churchill was reported to have suggested that machine guns be used on the striking miners.
Furthermore, he controversially claimed that the Fascism of Benito Mussolini had "rendered a service to the whole world," showing, as it had, "a way to combat subversive forces".

With these powerful men swaying public opinion in Britain and similar groups in Europe and the USA, indeed all over the world, they set about the suppression of Nikola Tesla's project of broadcasting electric power in almost unlimited amounts to any point on the globe. So much so that most people have never even heard of it.

The method he would use to produce this wireless power was to employ the earth's own resonance with its specific vibrational frequency to conduct AC electricity via a large electric oscillator. When J.P. Morgan agreed to underwrite Tesla's project, a strange structure was begun and almost completed near Wardenclyffe in Long Island, N.Y. Looking like a huge lattice-like, wooden oil derrick with a mushroom cap, it had a total height of 200 feet. Then suddenly, Morgan withdrew his support to the project in 1906, and eventually the structure was dynamited and brought down in 1917. Just in time for the central electric board to clean up.

[ConspiracyTheorySceptic]

catfish

Sure, hydrogen is a fuel, and it can burn in oxygen to provide energy. It has the added advantage of being totally non-polluting. That makes it almost the ideal fuel. Its only disadvantage compared to, say, petrol, is the difficulty in handling it, being a gas at normal temperatures rather than a liquid like petrol.

Obtaining hydrogen by electrolysis it is not economic. This has nothing to do with power companies suppressing novel ways of electrolysing water. We are dealing, here, with the immutable laws of nature rather than the shennanigans of corrupt men.

Research is currently under way to find a productive way of obtaining hydrogen from the photosynthesis of algae from which hydrogen is produced as a by-product. You can be sure that the US Govenment, and governments elsewhere, will put no obstacle in the way of achieving a successful outcome in this research because the earth, in which everyone has a stake, would benefit immensely by moving away from dependence on fossil fuels and their unwanted by-product of atmosphere-warming carbon dioxide and the destabilising effects of global warming. It would be in no one's interests for large areas of the world to become deserts with millions of people fleeing and scrambling to get into the temperate zones of the world such as Europe and North America.

The US Government would welcome success in this field, even if the oil companies might view it as a mixed blessing, because it would lessen the dependence of the US on supplies of oil from unstable areas of the world such as the Middle East.

CTS

[ian neal]

Bless, such innocence and faith

[blackcat]

[ConspiracyTheorySceptic]

Hello all

I've done a little research. Look at this site. It tells of current research on obtaining hydrogen from algae.

http://www.zetatalk.com/energy/tengy14r.htm

If this research is successful, it might make possible the switch to a hydrogen economy in under twenty years, and would be the best news possible regarding the future of the planet.

CTS

[catfish]

Hello all

I've done a lot of research. Read this thread. It tells of current research on obtaining hydrogen from water.

This research is successful, and it will be possible to switch to a hydrogen economy in less than a year and is the best news possible regarding the future of the planet.

Catfish

[catfish]

A fantastic thread that most will understand. The real meat is on page 5 but the whole thing is fascinating oupowerforum.

[Mark Gobell]

Magnetism - aka "My First Conspiracy Theory"

Catfish

Your posts are fascinating and very interesting. Thank you.

My early career was in electronics.

Since a child I have always been fascinated by magnetism. For me, witnessing that you could physically move one magnet with another without them touching each other, was and still is one of the most amazing things I have ever seen.

During my electronics training I learned about electro magnetism and electro magnetic induction.

I learned about it's use in, for example transformers, where two physically seperated coils of electrically insulated wire which are wound around a magnetic ferrous core can be used to "transform" the voltage and current levels in the primary coil into different voltages and currents in the secondary coil.

This inspired me to imagine all kinds of things that could de done with magnets and coils.

I reasoned back then, as a teenager, that as it was possible to induce an electrical current from one coil into another coil, with the two coils electrically isolated from each other, ie: not connected to each other, then what I was witnessing was the "transmission" of electrical energy.

The "thing" that facilitated this transmission of electrical energy between two electrically disconnected, isolated circuits was of course the magnet.

Magnetism, this thing that you cannot touch or smell or readily see, seemed to me to be a magical thing.

So what is a magnet I asked ?

When they tried to teach us at college about what magnetism was I was confused. It was explained variously in terms of it's effect. The effects I understood easily but not the why.

It was then revealed to us that the "magnetism" was the combined result of "magnetic domains" within the magnets, like mini magnets within.

These "domains" consisted of groups of molecules that "aligned" themselves in particular directions and which exhibited a "north" and "south" pole.

The magnetic properties of these domains were a result of the electrons which were "orbiting" the nuclei of those atoms, each posessing a "magnetic moment".

It was explained that materials that do not exhibit "strong magnetism" consist of electrons that pair up with other electrons with opposite magnetic moments. ie: North to South to North to South like a chain.

Whereas, materials that we know to exhibit a strong magnetism consist of electrons that pair up with other electrons "sympathetically" so that the domains "rotate" so that all of the north poles face one way and all of the south poles face the other.

From this we get a chunk of material we call a magnet.

Like with so many "principles" at college, further discussion was limited due to time constraints, and the lecturer's patience and / or understanding I suspected.

To this day I am not completely satisfied as to why the electrons and molecules in certain materials align themselves the way they do to form strong magnets.

Anyway, just call a magnet a magnet and move on. Nothing to see here son, you've got exams to pass.

I imagined that the logical extension of the principles of electro magnetic induction as shown by a transfomer would enable the transmission of electrical power across greater distances.

Why limit yourself to two tightly packed coils around a magnet.

I asked my lecturer in Electronic Principles:

As the earth is surrounded by magnetic fields and has a north and south pole then it must be a magnet. So would it be possible to induce electrical power from one isolated circuit somewhere on the planet to another circuit elsewhere, using the earth as a magnet ?

I mean if this was the case, we wouldn't need pylons and zillions of miles of dangerous High Voltage cables.

Also, if it was possible to transmit radio signals across vast distances then why not electrical power. Both use the same principles.

I was, of course not taken seriously. My fantasy was explained away using arguments that it would require massive power requirements and in terms of the poor old inefficient transformer.

Case closed. Not actually ever closed in my imagination but practically yes it was. He knew more than me so it must be right.

Fast forward to 2004 when I first started to wake up about 9/11

You know it's true what they say about 9/11 in many ways, that the day "changed everything". It certainly did in terms of this unimaginable "endless war" paradigm that we live in now.

But, in other ways too.

9/11 has brought Physics and Chemisty into the public domain for many. I have had to revisit the laws of gravity, motion, kinetics. I understand a little about explosions, how sky scrapers are built, the properties of steel, hydro carbon fires, airport security, pathological liars, what a box cutter was, how easy it is to fly Boeing Aircraft, how easy it is to evade a billion dollar air defence system, the art of deception, the lying corrupt media, mad evil men who want to rule the world, etc etc etc.

I have also bumped into my old friend Nikolai Tesla again, whom along with other early techno-heroes of mine, Heinrich Hertz, James Clarke Maxwell et al all combined to pre-determine my career for me. Thanks guys.

We knew Tesla at college because we had to calculate magnetic field strengths in Teslas. But that was all we knew of him, That was all we were taught about him.

Since 9/11 I have learned about his experiments with Scalar Electromagnetc Waves. I have read about that very thing I imagined to be possible when I was a spotty inquisitive little oik in class at college, the transmission of power using the earth as the medium. I have read about "exotic weaponry" and even Tesla's principles as applied to "weather control".

I learned about HAARP.

I learned about the use of the Earth as a medium to facilitate these technologies.

I learned that the US military have a publicly stated aim of "owning the weather in [the military] theatre"

I remember being excited in the late 1980's when room temperature superconductor research hit the news. I read about cold fusion. I remember reading about the "water car".

All of these things then turned to dissapointment as very quickly the very media that announced them to be alive, pronounced them dead.

Who were the nasty scientists playing these tricks with us I thought.

Through Stephen Jones 9/11 research I have revisited cold fusion again and learned more about it's sudden and inaccurate demise.

Through your posts here I have bumped into the water car again.

My point ?

Well, there are a few.

I could reason now, that the theory of Magnetism could be characterised as my "first conspiracy theory", in that they purported to know what happened with it but not really why.

Through electronics I also found my "second conspiracy theory". Mathematics. If someone can explain to me why the square root of minus 1 (-1) is a letter called J then I will indeed die happier.

James Clerk Maxwell formulated his ideas linking electricity and magnetism for the first time, ideas that even survived Einstein's theories, some 30 years before Thomson discovered the electron, which are now used to explain magnetism.

Imagine Mr Maxwell on an internet contemporary science forum announcing his theories.

Prove to me an atom exists them Jimmy, you wingnut, tin foiler, blah blah blah

We won't peer review your paper's because you are a wingnut.

The only people who have "peer" reviewed your papers are the other wingnuts in the Scholars for Electro Magnetic Truth.

Go away Maxwell - what do you know.

If Tesla's work escaped my lecturers, it must have escaped whole "scientific" communities. It certainly skipped a few generations thats for sure.

Why, because the ruling oligarchies said so, Simple as that. Just like they are saying now in so many different fields that challenge the "conventional wisdom".

If the military is making use of Tesla's ideas then why is it such a stretch of the imagination for some that the ideas illustrated in this thread are not possible.

Moreover, imagine just for a minute, that if these new technologies are being admitted to, just think about what could still be kept secret.

As I said 9/11 has changed everything.

Let's hope we can all extract the maximum good from that terrible disgusting anti-human day.

My mind is more open now that it ever has been. That can only be a good thing.

[blackcat]

http://www.tesla.org/

If I have a hero it is Tesla. Another genius screwed by the money men. Edison gets all the credit because he is in with those who write history but he usually just employed the real thinkers. In Newcastle upon Tyne there is a statue to the memory of the man who invented the electric light bulb and it isn't Edison!

It might seem at first that this has little to do with 9/11 but it has EVERYTHING to do with it. The control of information is at the root of it and the idea that 9/11 could even be contemplated is because they thought that by controlling what gets said about it means they can do/say what they like. 9/11 is the most BLATANT act of treason and those who argue in favour of the official line have either not bothered to look into the alternative or they are evil themselves. The Internet is the only reason that they are possibly going to be brought to book, and that is because the flow of information is barely controlled.

[catfish]

Mark,
sorry I missed your post, just read it, excellent stuff.

a friend of mine who's a mechanic had a similar experience at college, he kept asking the question "why doesn't water burn?" and got fobbed off at every step! Finally years later an old fellow told him, "That's easy! It's already been burnt!"

I came across a theory recently can't remember where, but it explained the link between gravity, electricity and magnetism. Basically in three dimensions electricity and magnestism run at 90 degrees to each other while gravity's force runs vertically. Hold your thumb so it points up, that's gravity, point your forefinger so it's at right angles to your thumb, that's magnetism, then hold your middle finger at right angles to your forefinger and that's electricity. This makes sense to me, the three forces are intrinsically linked.




all the best
catfishes

[Mark Gobell]

Hi Catfish

I replied to your PM today and posted it here too.

Sorry for not getting back to you earlier, I've been on holiday for the past two weeks.


I haven't done any electronics for years so would have to research the best circuit for your needs.

A multivibrator or oscillator of some kind that swithes at a frequency of 20kHz is pretty elementary to build.

"Off for 90%" means that it would need a duty cycle of 10%. This means that the on time is 10% of 1/20000 of a second and the off time is 90% of 1/20000 of a second.

What shape pulse is needed ?

Simple examples are Square wave, Sine wave, sawtooth or some other analogue shape.

What energy levels are required ?

What is the transducer type ?

I presume some sort of coil to impart the electrical energy into the fluid ?

Have you got a link that I could look at ?

Cheers

Mark

[Mark Gobell]

[Mark Gobell]

Catfish

Thought you might be interested in this rather exciting little development.

Whilst on holiday reading The Economist I noticed a rather strange, full page advert with the title:

All great truths begin as blasphemies - George Bernard Shaw

Imagine

A world with an infinite supply of pure energy.

Never having to recharge your phone.

Never having to refuel your car.

Welcome to our world.

At Steorn we have developed a technology that produces free, clean and constant energy. Our technology has been independently validated by engineers and scientists - always behind closed doors, always off the record, always proven to work.

The Challenge.

We are therefore issuing a challenge to the scientific community:

Test our technology and report your findings to the world.

We are seeking a jury of twelve - the most qualified and the most cynical

Get involved.

http://www.steorn.com

[blackcat]

There was an interview with someone from this company on BBC Radio4 a few minutes ago (17:25 Mon 28th August) but I only caught the end. The "Listen Again" site is http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/pm/ - click "Listen again". It is about 25 minutes in but can easily be navigated to. Will be replaced today (Tuesday evening 29th) so can only be accessed until then.

[blackcat]

New independent site that updates the Steorn claim

http://www.steornwatch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91


Interview w/ Sean McCarthy - Steorn Watch Show #1
August 25th, 2006

http://www.steornwatch.com/interview-steorn-ceo-sean-mccarthy-19

90 minute interview - listen at above link

[Mark Gobell]

Hi Blackcat

I realised after I posted that you had already raised the Stoern story elsewhere.

Intriguing isn't it ?

What do you make of it all so far ?

[blackcat]

Hi Mark - I just listened to that interview with Sean McCarthy (it is actually 26 minutes not 90!! oops) and he seems genuine. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. The site I posted is the one to visit for anyone wanting to be updated as the site exists specifically for that purpose. I will keep updating here if anything develops.

[Mark Gobell]

The radio interview was short and dismissive as to be expected.

I read the live chat transcript on Stoern's own forum hosted by it's CEO and that revealed more about why they took this "publicity stunt" route as admitted by Sean McCathy in his opening response on the PM show.

He is claiming that scientists have already tested the technology but under non disclosure agreements and that they have run into roadblocks when trying to progress further independent scientific evaluation to the extent that a paper for peer review would not even get past first base, somethin that the PM scientist from Boston confirmed.

I find it a little odd that the Steornwatch site was only registered on the very same day that the Economist was published 19th August with a private WHOIS status.

I guess when you claim to have discovered a technology that breaks the 1st Law of Thermodynamics then you will indeed be "up against it".

The closing date for the jury of 12 is the end of this month and Steorn hope to have testing started by the early New Year.

Can't wait . . .

[James C]

[colinpower]

hi all

if you want to knoew how to build a water powered car of the physics of free energy. this is the great debate on sta 31st at the truthfest
for more info
www.myspace.com/truthfest

The energy colloective is coming together for all who are interested.

See you there

Colin

[catfish]

If you want to run a lawnmower engine on the system I described first you will need to remove the carb and get an airtight seal with a reduction in pipe to 2mm or less, make sure you have a bubbler to control the backfire, also pulsing the dc current will allow a rest time for the bubbles to surface, you'll have to play with it to get it right. Start with the tiniest amount of electrolyte and work up, you need less than you think. Then you need to remove the lazy spark from the magneto (use another magneto to switch the circuit).

[Cruise4]

This sounds like a great thing to try out to me. I have a dual fuel converted Landrover and getting Gas from water and solar power is certainly what I mean by free energy.

'Free energy' taken literally doesn't make any sense does it.
Free from OUR perspective does!

In this case water is used of which 93% doesn't even get collected.
And Sunlight.

I notice the skeptics don't actually try it and then prove it doesn't work and I'm also increasingly finding out science is full of * and holes galore. I reckon its another conspiracy going on by exactly the same types that comprise the IPCC. The world seems full of people quite willing to go along with anything for personal reasons. Its about time they developed some moral fibre and altruism.

[rodin]