Thermate911's Gosling/Finnegan disgust

[Thermate911]

Note: This thread has been edited so strangely that it is hard to fathom who to believe anymore. The reaction to Finnegan appearing here in person to offer his view on the Bali bombings is not far short of the standard FO/MI5 'news burying tactic' and does little to give newcomers confidence in this forum's overall veracity. It is a great shame, IMO, how easily 'news' can be steered into oblivion. Now shoot the messenger if you will - it makes no difference to the outcome...

Can't verify but sounds genuine:-

http://seanews.110mb.com/index.html

BREAKING: BALI BOMBING INVESTIGATOR ROBERT S. FINNEGAN ENDS SILENCE

[outsider]

Seems he's verifying there was something very 'fishy' going on, but that certainly doesn't go anywhere to disspproving Indon complicity. He simply says he has no evidence whatsoever; well, if he was 'out-of-the-loop', he wouldn't, would he?

Not knocking your post, thermate, but just stopping people jumping to conclusions that this 'exonerates' the Indons.
Having been involved with East Timor, Indonesian and West Papua campaigns for many years, I know that Indon Intel is a creature of the CIA (like the ISI in Pakistan, the KCIA in South Korea, and I'm sure the Turk, Chile, Brazil, Argentina et al 'Intels'.

[Robert S. Finnegan]

Ah yes, the trolls arrive. So, you parse my words as "disspproving Indon complicity" (incorrect spelling in the original). And state, "something fishy going on." Well, let's clear that up. I will attempt to lower myself to your level (if possible) in an attempt to educate you, fool. Indeed, something "fishy" was and is still going on, and will continue as long as the real "masterminds" are still walking around freely.

The Indonesian authorities and military have been exonerated in the case of the Bali bombings of 2002. That is, unless you have concrete evidence of their complicity or illegal actions? Hey, that would be great to see. Post it here. Now.

I doubt very seriously that you were involved in any way other than a deranged spectator in "East Timor, Indonesian and West Papua campaigns for many years." In any event, they have nothing to do with the Bali bombings of 2002, the subject of this interview.

BIN is not a creation of the CIA, as a matter of fact, BIN actively opposes them here in Indonesia.

This is indeed genuine. Let's cut the nonsense. I make myself available here to answer legitimate questions regarding our investigation. This is the first and last time, so have at it.

Robert S. Finnegan
Former Investigative Editor
The Jakarta Post
Jakarta, Indonesia
seanews1@yahoo.com
62-21-829-5656

[kbo234]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your post.

It is moving to hear from someone still fired up with anger about the Bali outrage.

On this forum we discuss this issue and that, fall out etc.....but often forget the visceral rage that brought us here.

I am not familiar (unlike 9/11) with the details, but you clearly believe that Bali was (as usual) an example of murderous intelligence western 'theatre' designed to sell the lie that is the global "War On Terror" against Islamic extremists.

Do you mind me asking...is the fact that you are 'former' investigative editor anything to do with the waves you have made investigating the bombings?

[Robert S. Finnegan]

Thank you for the inquiry and please feel free to ask questions.

"Investigative Editor" was simply a title. I have not fully retired yet but am on the verge and could care less about any flack thrown at me. It is way too late in the game for that. I am still an active investigative journalist, and have two cases to close: The Bali bombings of 2002, and H5N1, the origins and those responsible for its release.

Unfortunately I do not expect to see the resolution of the Bali case in my lifetime. However, there is hope that the next generation of investigators will pick it up at some point and run with it. I am trying to get them as much information as possible while I still can, hence my decision to come out once more on this. There is no statue of limitations on this atrocity.

Best -

Robert S. Finnegan

[Robert S. Finnegan]

Also, thank you guys for pursuing this and keeping it alive. I do not envy the independent investigators on this case, it must be the toughest any of us have ever faced. I have no doubts that you will prevail in bringing the Bush/Cheney murderers to justice. There also is no statute of limitations on this crime.

You are the true patriots.

Robert S. Finnegan

[outsider]

[Robert S. Finnegan]

Jealousy will get you nowhere mate. I didn't land that slot writing cute little features articles or obits and I really don't care what you have to say about it, just another troll, another day.

Like I said, screw E. Timor. I was not reporting on it, the Bali bombing was and is my concern. There is an E. Timor angle to my investigation. You obviously missed it. Your take on Suharto/Sukarno is faulty. I'm not here to give you a history lesson or teach you how to research. When were you in Indonesia? Hmmmm?

Just who do you work for? And do you have the balls to post your real name? Without it, you not only have zero credibility, you are just another nameless, faceless illiterate moron howling in the wilderness of cyberspace. And you certainly have no first-hand knowledge of the topics you spout off on. Just drivel from a frustrated individual seeking attention. A dime a dozen.

Go some place else to play sonny, say, Wonkette. They would appreciate you there.

Robert S. Finnegan

[kbo234]

That's a pretty defamatory and unpleasant post Robert.

Many of us know 'outsider' very well by his real name and hold him in high esteem. He has been a dedicated and honest activist outside this forum for many more years than I have.

Who is going to trust what you say if you cannot manage even a modicum of good manners. It is possible to 'put someone right', if that's what you are trying to do, without being downright insulting.

'outsider' is well-informed on most issues and if there is disagreement then arguments can surely be conducted by reference to documents or news sources or whatever.

[TonyGosling]

I have suspended RSF after, this rather personal post didn't appear to be from a serious person.
What thoughts on our new kid on the blockl?

[paul wright]

Still, adverserial approach aside, I do remember Finnegan's reports from the time on the rapid clean up of the site of the bombings, all dumped in the Indian Ocean
The only reporter at the time backing to some extent Joe Vialls assertions regarding the origins of the atrocity
I can't follow the logic of this thread to be honest, I've no idea what Indons are
Still, I would always give some strong regard to Finnegan's analysis

[outsider]

[Andrew.]

What thoughts on our new kid on the blockl?


Brutality honest as he sees it and to the point but letting his emotions get the better, rather than his determination which he also does have.

Some excellent reporting, only to then be ridiculed for it. He has, as stated on his web site and links, stated about the corruption in Indonesia and its media. By International interference with some locals going along with it?

If we do look at the history of Indonesia, mostly Muslim some Buddhist and Hindu and at one time mostly Buddhist mostly peaceful and referred to as a "Golden Age" in Indonesian history. It has been under Colonial rule not good. But then as always disaster enter political communism 1914? Mix in a bit of right wing ideology later and give it a name, democracy.

[outsider]

[outsider]

Re CIA in Indonesia, I'll let Peter Dale Scott do the persuading:

http://www.namebase.org/scott.html

[Andrew.]

[Thermate911]

Please note that this 'outburst' is directed at whoever banned Finnegan before he even got started sharing information with us here on 911forum and has nothing to do with 'outsider's subsequent comments.

This is UTTERLY INSANE!

I suppose you'd ban John Pilger if he turned up here on one of his high stress off days, too?

Is this site so hopelessly insular, so hopelessly academic and theoretical that it cannot accomodate REAL people with REAL information suffering REAL intimidation from those we have dedicated our WHOLE lives to countering?

I resign in absolute disgust - please remove me from your membership list forthwith.

[Andrew.]

http://www.namebase.org/scott.html

Peter Dale Scott is a professor of English at the University of California in Berkeley.

I'll let Myron fagan, tell some truth.



'The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so--called ideologies [marxism/fascism/socialism v. democracy/capitalism] to enable them [the Illuminati] to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other.'

-- from The Illuminati and the Council on Foreign Relations by Myron Fagan"

(edit) That is after disarming the general public public first.

[outsider]

@ Andrew: below is my original post in answer to Thermate's post; where exactly is the ridicule? Come on man, just answer the question:

outsider wrote:

Seems he's verifying there was something very 'fishy' going on, but that certainly doesn't go anywhere to disspproving Indon complicity. He simply says he has no evidence whatsoever; well, if he was 'out-of-the-loop', he wouldn't, would he? Not knocking your post, thermate, but just stopping people jumping to conclusions that this 'exonerates' the Indons. Having been involved with East Timor, Indonesian and West Papua campaigns for many years, I know that Indon Intel is a creature of the CIA (like the ISI in Pakistan, the KCIA in South Korea, and I'm sure the Turk, Chile, Brazil, Argentina et al 'Intels'.

And that brought forth our new poster's wrath.
But where are you at, Andrew? Bit piqued I won't swallow the 'Beam' theory, and do my best to trash it?

As for Peter Dale Scott being a professor of English, Noam Chomsky is some kind of professor of Language; doesn't stop him being an icon of 'the Left', with his talks sold out and his books on politics sell-outs (this is not a plug for Chomsky; re 9/11 he is abysmal). Should Chomsky stick to languges?

Peter Dale Scott is a world-respected author; among many books, he co-authored 'Cocaine Politics' with Jonathan Marshall (which I have read, and which I found to be extremely informative and authoritive.
Perhaps instead of just finding out his job, you might read his material? Perhaps starting with the article I posted?

[Andrew.]

"@ Andrew: below is my original post in answer to Thermate's post; where exactly is the ridicule? Come on man, just answer the question:"

"and indicate the 'ridicule'"

"but that certainly doesn't go anywhere to disspproving Indon complicity. He simply says he has no evidence whatsoever; well, if he was 'out-of-the-loop', he wouldn't, would he?"

"Notice RSF made no answer to how someone can be an honest 'investigative journalist' in a country that has been run for so many years by brutal military, ex-military or military-supported civilians.
By supporting Indon Intel and military, he is of course playing to the locals, without seriously discommoding the Empire."

----

http://seanews.110mb.com/index.html

"FINNEGAN: I never really thought it would go on this long and realize now that I should have released more on this [Bali bombing]. We were so close, after we had the rug pulled out from under us by [Jakarta Post Chief Editor] Raymond Toruan and Boyce [U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia Ralph Boyce] I guess I was hoping things would fall together for the other investigators and it would come out from other sources. It’s obvious that is not going to happen now and in any event I was already in exile in the U.S."


"FINNEGAN: Simple. We couldn’t prove it. Still can’t. Now however… this was too much, watching history repeat itself on Saturday. More “masterminds?” They have to be kidding. Look at the 2003 Analysis Timeline.* That’s where we started with the roll-call of “masterminds.” How many now? I have to go back and count."


"FINNEGAN: Do you remember that I had also been hired by Sabam Siagian (Jakarta Post Publisher) to teach the first group of investigative journalists under the new democracy?"
CLANCY: Yeah.

FINNEGAN: One of my students was there when it went down. Let’s just say that her loyalty to me was stronger than to Toruan. She reported directly to me on when, where and what was said. She was a key player in this entire, sordid mess. I also believe that Sabam had nothing to do with my firing and was out of the loop at the time. His wife was dying from cancer in Singapore and he was spending the majority of his time there, as he should have. I have nothing but respect for Sabam. I do not believe he even knew I was gone until it was over and too late. Sabam is hands down the finest, most ethical and honest boss I have ever worked under. He puts Western agencies and publishers, CNN, BBC and the other riff-raff to shame. Sabam was the saving grace for me throughout [the investigation]. It is indeed a tragedy that things went this way.

CLANCY: That must have weighed heavily on you…their safety.

FINNEGAN: Some of the bravest I have had the privilege to work with in my career. Fearless. Their story remains untold, and without them there would have been no investigation.


Robert S. Finnegan
"Indeed, something "fishy" was and is still going on, and will continue as long as the real "masterminds" are still walking around freely."

-----------------

He did get angry, like you now are losing your temper. Mirror, Revolver.

As for “Noam Chomsky is some kind of professor of Language; doesn't stop him being an icon of 'the Left'”

And Peter Dale Scott “ informative and authoritive”

That’s why I posted The Myron Fagan quote. As it sums it up in so few words.

[Andrew.]

outsider,

Please may I take this opportunity to thank you for your correction, as on that *thread I did not make mention of this brave man and appeal. Apologies.

*“appeal for Ezra Nawi, from Jewish Voice for Peace:”

-------

To retell the famous story an old Cherokee chief supposedly told his
grandson. The chief said:

"A fight is going on inside me. It is a terrible battle – between two
wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, pride, envy, lust, greed,
arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies and cruelty.

"The other wolf stands for honesty, kindness, hope, sharing, serenity,
humility, friendship, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.

"This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person,
too," he added.

The grandson reflected on these words for a minute and then asked his
grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old chief simply replied, "The one you feed."

Or

The teaching of Buddha, not that of the Buddhist religion, in relation to the body and the soul (Being) and crucifixion of "Self" is identical to the teaching of Christ, not the teaching of the Christian religion.


http://www.jahtruth.co.uk/flute.htm