soldiers to get life.

[Abandoned Ego]

Thoughts, comments, action ?
We need to stop these madmen somehow;

Soldiers to get life in jail for refusing to act as occupiers
GERRI PEEV
POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
SOLDIERS who object to taking part in a military occupation of a foreign country will face life in prison under measures due to be rubber-stamped in the House of Commons on Monday.

The little-noticed Armed Forces Bill will have its third reading in the Commons on Monday and left-leaning MPs are alarmed that it will legitimise pre-emptive military strikes.

It will change the definition of desertion to include soldiers who go absent without leave and intend to refuse to take part in a "military occupation of a foreign country or territory".

Under the current Army Act, desertion is defined as "going absent intending not to come back, going absent to avoid any service overseas, or going absent to avoid service when before an enemy".

Campaigners have seized on the inclusion of "military occupation" as evidence that ministers are trying to scare soldiers from objecting to future preemptive strikes - a charge denied by the Ministry of Defence.

The move comes as tensions escalate with Iran and follows a reported rise in soldiers absconding from the British Army since the invasion of Iraq.

Ben Griffin, a former SAS soldier who quit the army without facing punishment after being "appalled" at what was happening in Iraq, accused the government of changing the law ahead of any possible action in Iran.

"The government are kicking themselves in the teeth," he said. "Currently the British Army is a volunteer force, but using this sort of stick to beat soldiers into doing what they are told is turning it into a conscript army."

Mr Griffin, 28, from London, said that this would hamper morale and ultimately the effectiveness of the military.

Anti-war campaigners claim the change means it would expressly legitimise occupation and force soldiers to contravene the Nuremberg Principles, limiting their right to becoming conscientious objectors.

The Ministry of Defence has denied these charges and said that in fact the legislation introduces a new, lesser sentence of two years' imprisonment.

John McDonnell, the left-wing Labour MP, has tabled amendments to slash the maximum sentence for any desertion from life imprisonment to two years. He is also urging other MPs to throw out the new definition of desertion.

Angus MacNeil, the SNP MP who also spoke at the meeting, urged as many MPs as possible to debate the bill on Monday.

"There are a number of alarming measures in this bill that have appeared with little debate that need further scrutiny," he said.

The Ministry of Defence denied that the scope and definition was new or tougher than the existing law.

"Under current legislation the maximum penalty for all offences of desertion is life imprisonment. In most cases we have reduced this in the Armed Forces Bill to two years," a spokeswoman said.

However, where an offender deserted to avoid active service, such as the Iraq war, the maximum penalty would be applied, she said.

Link ; http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=742682006


keep fighting gang.

The Blackpool group.

[Annie]

Dave and I recently spoke at a meeting in parliament about this, which was organised by the Global Women's Strike and PayDay. John McDonnell has tabled an amendment to reduce the sentence for desertion on the grounds of conscience from the proposed "life" to 2 years, in line with other forms of desertion (and the Official Secrets Act - but that's another story).

Perhaps tomorrow we could all email our local MPs and ask them to support this amendment on Monday. If it goes through, the new Armed Forces Act will overturn the Geneva Convention, which says that members of the armed forces should disobey manifestly illegal orders - measures put in place precisely to stop the devleopments seen in Nazi Germany. Apparently most MPs are not even aware that this bill is going through!!!!

Regards

Annie

[prole art threat]

There is an easy answer to this. STOP JOINING THE BLOODY MILITARY!
I care not one jot about these legalised murderers and executioners and they deserve all they get. After all it is these 'troops' who have been dropping cluster bombs on little children. They are monsters for doing this. Satan's little helpers, helping advance the New World Order with every bomb they drop and every bullet they fire. F*** the troops. They have blood on their hands that no amount of soap and scrubbing will ever wash away.

[Annie]

Hi paradise estate

I have to disagree with your blanket condemnation of these people in the military. A lot of them will have joined up young, idealistic, and wanting to do their best for our country. The fact that their political masters are a bunch of * and liars does not mean that all our armed forces are bad people!

More and more of them are realising that they have been lied to about the causes of the Iraq war; more and more are realising that they will probably be ordered to fight another illegal war in Iran. Let's not condemn them for the orders of the politicians, but support them when they stand up to mindless authority. Why should honourable people face a life sentence if they refuse to fight an illegal war?

Regards

Annie

[ianrcrane]

Letter sent to Anthony Steen MP via www.writetothem.com

Dear Anthony Steen,

I am writing to express my concern with regard to the content of the Armed Forces Bill, which is scheduled for its third reading on Monday.

Under the terms of the proposed legislation, Members of the Armed Forces who object to taking part in a military occupation of a foreign country will face life in prison. The current maximum is two years!

It will change the definition of desertion to include soldiers who go absent without leave and intend to refuse to take part in a "military occupation of a foreign country or territory".

The changes would expressly legitimise occupation and force soldiers to contravene the Nuremberg Principles, limiting their right to becoming conscientious objectors.

In addition, a number of MPs have already expressed concern that the Bill will also legitimise pre-emptive military strikes. Is this preparation for another illegal pre-emptive attack? This time with Iran as the victim?

I do hope that you will recognise the underlying intent behind this obnoxious legislation and will vote accordingly.

Yours sincerely,

Ian R. Crane

[prole art threat]

[Jane]

I think the whole culture we currently live in helps to keep providing more recruits for the army. The education system (or rather lack of it), the violence in popular films, computer games, our indifference and insensitivity to others' suffering (especially when these people live in a foreign country and have a dark skin - I still think Milan Rai was spot on when he said these people are seen as being "like insects") - I could go on. Joining the army must be seen as a good escape from unemployment or some labouring job for your average "chavvy" living on a council estate (I know they don't all come from such backgrounds, but I bet a lot of them do).

It is even worse in America - remember the scene in Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11"? I've just picked this up from the Net - it's worth clicking on the link:

[Abandoned Ego]

Hello all.

Without wishing to detract too much from the subject in hand on this thread, I just thought Id throw this link out there, particularly for Ian, who I have no doubt will find this little 17 minute video of particular fascination - as you probably all will ;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3333992194168790800&q=water+c ar+inventor+murdered

later all.[/url]

[xmasdale]

Tessa Jowell MP
Dulwich and West Norwood



Dear Tessa Jowell,

I am extremely disturbed by aspects of the Armed Services Bill which is due to have its third reading in the Commons on Monday.

Members of the Armed Forces who object to taking part in a military occupation of a foreign country will face life in prison. The current maximum is two years!

There is a long established right to conscientious objection in this country. You can claim that military personnel have forfeited that by joining up, but they are often lured into the services at a tender age by promises of the good life and do not realise until later that their orders may well involve them in taking actions such as use of cluster bombs and depleted uranium tipped missiles which kill and maim innocent civilians. They learn the hard way the true meaning in this respect of the euphemism, "collateral damage".

This bill will change the definition of "desertion" to include those who refuse orders to occupy a foreign country or territory. It will contravene the principles of international law established at the Nuremburg trials, particularly that military personnel have a duty to refuse illegal orders.

This is a disgrace to civilised values which I used to think this country had a good record of upholding but this government's aggressive military behaviour has destroyed my faith in the goodwill of the government and had led me to leave the Labour Party, in which I was once an activist in your constituency.

I hope you will do something to redeem the reputation of the party by voting against this bill.

Yours sincerely

J Noel Glynn

[xmasdale]