FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Chat Chat  UsergroupsUsergroups  CalendarCalendar RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Brazilians move against corruption
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    9/11, 7/7, Covid-1984 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
karlos
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:49 am    Post subject: Now Brazil wants Boris Berezovsky tried Reply with quote

Now Brazil wants BORIS BEREZOVSKY tried as well
After Britain refused to extradite Mr Boris Berezovsy the fugitive living in London and the number one suspect in the poisoning murder of Alezander Litvinenko.
Now Brazil has asked for him to be extradited to Brazil to stand trial for money landering. Now that his protector Tony Blair has exited the stage can Britain justify protecting this criminal any longer?
As all of you know for quite some time i have been alerting all of you to the facts about Boris Berezovsky now it looks like the shi t is about to hit the fan for him.
I expect that he will leave Britain and move to Israel and claim asylum there as several other Russian criminals have done. The noose is starting to tighten.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/4bb4fa10-3172-11dc-891f-0000779fd2ac.html
A Brazilian court has requested the arrest and extradition of Boris Berezovsky, the Russian billionaire exiled in the UK, along with two British citizens involved in football management in Brazil.

Mr Berezovsky, with Kia Joorabchian and Nojan Bedroud, and five Brazilian citizens, is charged with formation of a criminal organisation and money laundering in connection with payments of $32.5m (€23.5m, £16m) made to Corinthians football club of São Paulo since it entered a management deal with MSI in November 2004.


A Brazilian court document says telephone conversations recorded over 18 months show that “MSI belongs and has always belonged to the accused, Boris Berezovsky”. It sets out the evidence gathered by prosecutors upon which the decision to issue the warrants was made.

The documents quote from a transcript in which an unidentified man tells one of the accused Brazilians that his associates intend to buy four more football teams in Brazil “to launder money”.

Mr Berezovsky has denied any business connection with Mr Joorabchian or with MSI. Mr Berezovsky said he believed the Brazilian case was an extension of a politicised campaign by the Kremlin against him.

Mr Joorabchian denied wrongdoing, saying the investigation was provoked by a group of individuals in Brazil wanting to gain control of Corinthians.

A separate trial of Mr Berezovsky was launched in Moscow this week on embezzlement charges – in his absence, and with a court-appointed defence lawyer acting on his behalf after the tycoon ordered his own lawyers not to take part.

Mr Joorabchian is embroiled in a row between Manchester United and the Premier League, England’s top-tier championship, over the registration of Argentine footballer Carlos Tevez, who played for Corinthians.

Mr Joorabchian owns the economic rights to Tevez, whose transfer to West Ham United last August was found by the league to have breached rules about the registration of players.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3369419

A preliminary hearing was held Thursday in the trial in absentia of Kremlin foe Boris Berezovsky on charges that he embezzled millions of dollars from Aeroflot.


_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
outsider
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 6060
Location: East London

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without going into all the available info (I just don't have the time), I'm sure Berezovsky is a criminal, but to suggest he's the number-one suspect in poisoning of Litvinenko seems ludicrous. The nuclear material used was highly rare, expensive, and like the US anthrax, only had one or very few possible sources (to whit, Russian nuclear establishments in the case of Litvinenko). It would appear apparent that L's major enemy would be Putin, who he had fingered in his book for Russian 'False Flag' Moscow bombings.
_________________
'And he (the devil) said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them; for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them'. Luke IV 5-7.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karlos
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outsider wrote:
Without going into all the available info (I just don't have the time), I'm sure Berezovsky is a criminal, but to suggest he's the number-one suspect in poisoning of Litvinenko seems ludicrous. The nuclear material used was highly rare, expensive, and like the US anthrax, only had one or very few possible sources (to whit, Russian nuclear establishments in the case of Litvinenko). It would appear apparent that L's major enemy would be Putin, who he had fingered in his book for Russian 'False Flag' Moscow bombings.

Looks like you have swallowed the BBC propaganda.
Let me briefly explain.
BB was the organiser of a fraud whereby he sold shares in a compay and then pocketed the money and legged it leaving the investors, many of then Russian citizens with losses. This was the final act of fraud and embezzelment and charges were filed in Russian court. BB came to Britain and was granted asylum straight away after intervention from the top.

Russian authorities have asked for his extradition to stand trial and just before the poisoning incident Russia made a much stronger extradition request with a prima facia case provided to Britain. This was the trigger for BB to take evasive action and then the poisoning occured and the whole world was successfully distracted. Instead of the media being filled with details of BB's crimes and his private life they were filled with reasons NOT to extradite him because Russia had allegedly killed one of BB's closest employees.
The victim worked for BB lived in a house bought and paid for by BB and was effectively sacrificed to save his master.

Anytime a murder occurs the police usually investigate the people who might have something to gain, have the oportunity and have a relationship to the person. BB fits all three.
But dont take my word for it, the Russian government themselves have named BB as the prime suspect and cannot understand the immunity from INVESTIGATION granted to him by the British government. Under Gordon Brown's running of the treasury these foreign billionaires were granted TAX FREE STATUS for no apparant reason.

Now that Brazil also wants him extradited although for a smaller number of charges than the Russians have, it will put extreme pressure on the British to drop his immunity. Brazil as you can guess is still angry about Jean Charles De Menezes butchered by recieveing 7 bullets to the head at point blank range approved by Mr Ian Blair. And they are particularly angry at the lies the spin doctors told afterwards.
So they will want their pound of flesh.
Lets hope justice will prevail and BB does stand trilal, but i predict he will scarper before the noose tightens.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
outsider
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 6060
Location: East London

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:
outsider wrote:
Without going into all the available info (I just don't have the time), I'm sure Berezovsky is a criminal, but to suggest he's the number-one suspect in poisoning of Litvinenko seems ludicrous. The nuclear material used was highly rare, expensive, and like the US anthrax, only had one or very few possible sources (to whit, Russian nuclear establishments in the case of Litvinenko). It would appear apparent that L's major enemy would be Putin, who he had fingered in his book for Russian 'False Flag' Moscow bombings.

Looks like you have swallowed the BBC propaganda.
Let me briefly explain.
BB was the organiser of a fraud whereby he sold shares in a compay and then pocketed the money and legged it leaving the investors, many of then Russian citizens with losses. This was the final act of fraud and embezzelment and charges were filed in Russian court. BB came to Britain and was granted asylum straight away after intervention from the top.

Russian authorities have asked for his extradition to stand trial and just before the poisoning incident Russia made a much stronger extradition request with a prima facia case provided to Britain. This was the trigger for BB to take evasive action and then the poisoning occured and the whole world was successfully distracted. Instead of the media being filled with details of BB's crimes and his private life they were filled with reasons NOT to extradite him because Russia had allegedly killed one of BB's closest employees.
The victim worked for BB lived in a house bought and paid for by BB and was effectively sacrificed to save his master.

Anytime a murder occurs the police usually investigate the people who might have something to gain, have the oportunity and have a relationship to the person. BB fits all three.
But dont take my word for it, the Russian government themselves have named BB as the prime suspect and cannot understand the immunity from INVESTIGATION granted to him by the British government. Under Gordon Brown's running of the treasury these foreign billionaires were granted TAX FREE STATUS for no apparant reason.

Now that Brazil also wants him extradited although for a smaller number of charges than the Russians have, it will put extreme pressure on the British to drop his immunity. Brazil as you can guess is still angry about Jean Charles De Menezes butchered by recieveing 7 bullets to the head at point blank range approved by Mr Ian Blair. And they are particularly angry at the lies the spin doctors told afterwards.
So they will want their pound of flesh.
Lets hope justice will prevail and BB does stand trilal, but i predict he will scarper before the noose tightens.


Unfortunately, your 'brief explanation' does not deal with the rarity, cost, short life (or half-life), difficulty of handling and few sources of the nuclear poison; or his exposure of Russia's 'False-Flag' bombings.

_________________
'And he (the devil) said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them; for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them'. Luke IV 5-7.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karlos
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Unfortunately, your 'brief explanation' does not deal with the rarity, cost, short life (or half-life), difficulty of handling and few sources of the nuclear poison; or his exposure of Russia's 'False-Flag' bombings.


Rarity? You can buy polonium on the net for a very small price. The Billionaire had only to click his fingers in order to garnish himself with the stuff. The 'poison' is widely available.
The only false flags BB exposed were his own.
Or are you happy that Britain is providing sanctuary for this wanted fugitive? If he is innocent then let him go and stand trial and prove himself in court. Although now he is wanted on two continents he may have to wait until one prison term finishes before the second one starts.

the only reason he is not done by Britain for money laundering and tax evasion is because Gordon Brown granted him tax free status. Are you happy that YOUR taxes go towards subsidising this billionaire?

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
karlos
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Britain and Russia are squaring up for a major diplomatic stand-off amid intense speculation that Britain will expel Russian diplomats from London for the first time in more than a decade,

David Miliband, son of champagne socialist Adolf Miliband who famously avoided paying inheritence tax by 'giving' his million pound plus house to the UK foreign secretary and his brother Ed who is also a cabinet minister, is preparing to outline the action to be taken in a statement to parliament this afternoon.

It is a further indictment of the depths the UK has sunk where our rulers go to the nth degree to protect a wanted criminal from extradition

Berezovsky has gone into business with Neil Bush, the younger brother of U.S. President George W. Bush. Berezovsky has become an investor in Bush's Ignite! Learning, an educational software corporation. Berezovsky also has a private box at the Emirates stadium where he has entertained Bush junior.
Never heard of Bush junior?
In the late 1980s, Neil Bush made big news for his controversial role as a director of Silverado Savings and Loan, which collapsed and cost US taxpayers roughly $1 billion. (Federal regulators accused Bush of various conflicts of interests, but he was never charged. A civil suit against Bush was later settled for $26.5 million.)

Bush in 1999 founded Ignite! Software -- a company that creates interactive educational software programs. Whatever the merits of the company it has a series of international investors in a small Texas-based start-up. One investor is Winston Wong, a second-generation Taiwanese semiconductor tycoon who recently founded Shanghai Grace Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation with the son of Chinese President Jiang Zemin. Last December Neil Bush visited Beijing to share dinner with Jiang Zemin and meet with political heavyweights like Wu Jichuan, China's minister of the information industry. According to the New York Times, Neil Bush negotiated with the education minister of the United Arab Emirates to introduce Ignite's software to the emirate's schools. Hamza El Khouli, an associate of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and chairman of First Arabian Development and Investment Company, not only invested with Ignite, he also hosted Neil Bush on the Red Sea last March.

And then there is Berezovsky. So you see why Miliband is trying so hard to prevent his extradition.

Berezovsky started in business in 1989 under perestroika by buying and reselling automobiles from state manufacturer AutoVAZ. Officially, Berezovsky was called upon as an expert in development of optimized system of management of the enterprise. In 1992, a new middleman company, "LogoVAZ", was created with Berezovsky as its president. LogoVAZ became an exclusive consignment dealer of AutoVAZ, enabling a scheme (named "ReExport") in which cars were sold abroad and then bought back for sale on the internal market. Frequently cars also were not exported at all - all operations on export and import remained only on paper. Each car going through this scheme brought dealers an income of up to USD 1,500.

In May 1994 Berezovsky set up a company Automobile All-Russia alliance "АVVА" , however, the enterprise turned out to be merely a financial pyramid scheme. Shares of a nonexistent factory which had never been constructed were sold. And investors were ripped off. The total proceeds from this fraud were over $50 million for Boris.

Then Berezovsky is accused of embezzling over 214 million rubles ($8.3 million) of AEROFLOT's funds and laundering over 16 million rubles ($620,000). The charges envision a prison term of up to 10 years. In the late 1990s, the tycoon was charged with setting up two front companies in Switzerland to divert millions of dollars from the carrier. The Aeroflot case was suspended after he fled to the United Kingdom and was granted political asylum here in 2001.

Also there is LogoVaz he began his business career in 1989. LogoVAZ was the country’s first capitalist car dealership. By 1994 he had developed that into a media, banking, and oil empire. At it's heart LogoVaz exported cars and then bought them back for a higher price. The profits went into a swiss company account and basically it was a simple fraud. The average mark up was $1500 per car. Coincidentally it was a similar fraud to Octav Botnar the Dan Dan the Datsun Man who pocketed over £100 million before legging it to Switzerland.

A 1996 Forbes magazine article alleged that Berezovsky used organized crime to build his business empire. Forbes also linked Berezovsky to the notorious murder of Vladislav Listiev, a popular TV personality.

And the Gordon Brown led Labour government is bending over backwards to back this man.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
outsider
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 6060
Location: East London

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:
Quote:
Unfortunately, your 'brief explanation' does not deal with the rarity, cost, short life (or half-life), difficulty of handling and few sources of the nuclear poison; or his exposure of Russia's 'False-Flag' bombings.


Rarity? You can buy polonium on the net for a very small price. The Billionaire had only to click his fingers in order to garnish himself with the stuff. The 'poison' is widely available.
The only false flags BB exposed were his own.
Or are you happy that Britain is providing sanctuary for this wanted fugitive? If he is innocent then let him go and stand trial and prove himself in court. Although now he is wanted on two continents he may have to wait until one prison term finishes before the second one starts.

the only reason he is not done by Britain for money laundering and tax evasion is because Gordon Brown granted him tax free status. Are you happy that YOUR taxes go towards subsidising this billionaire?


Re rarity, see Wikipedia: Synthesis by (n,γ) reaction
In 1934 an experiment showed that when natural 209Bi is bombarded with neutrons, 210Bi is created, which then decays to 210Po via β decay. Polonium may now be made in milligram amounts in this procedure which uses high neutron fluxes found in nuclear reactors. Only about 100 grams are produced each year, making polonium exceedingly rare.[10]

Re 'The only False Flags he has exposed are his own' see his book, 'Blowing Up Russia'. Don't you believe the blowing up of Moscow blocks of flats was an 'Inside Job'? Do you believe Putin would not order such a thing?

Re my tax money, I know BB got filthy rich by ripping off and impoverishing hundreds of thousands or millions of Russians, and I'm sure HMG has dishonourable motives for supporting him (be it only for his lolly). I have no problem with him being brought to justice, but not in Russia (anymore than I would expect Philip Agee to be deported to US to stand trial).

_________________
'And he (the devil) said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them; for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them'. Luke IV 5-7.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karlos
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

polonium can be bought from http://www.ornl.gov/

polonium is used to eliminate static electricity in machinery that is caused by processes such as the rolling of paper, wire or sheet metal. Polonium is also used in brushes for removing dust from photographic films.

Are you honestly telling me a billionaire cannot acquire it?
It has been quoted in the press that the amount used cost only $60

False flags in Russia?
Surely you are talking about Yeltsin not Putin, putin has restored law and order to russia and is clamping down on crime. During Yeltsin's time it was a free for all.

So even though you agree that boris stole money from alot of average Russians you do not want him to stand trial in Russia. He is shaping government policy watch todays news. He is buying influence. Surely you cannot be happy with this fugitive clicking his fingers and your government jumping to his tune?

So Brazil wants Boris extradited to stand trial and Russia too.
Victims of his frauds want their money back.
Yet Miliband is backing the wrong horse.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
outsider
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 6060
Location: East London

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:
polonium can be bought from http://www.ornl.gov/

polonium is used to eliminate static electricity in machinery that is caused by processes such as the rolling of paper, wire or sheet metal. Polonium is also used in brushes for removing dust from photographic films.

Are you honestly telling me a billionaire cannot acquire it?
It has been quoted in the press that the amount used cost only $60

False flags in Russia?
Surely you are talking about Yeltsin not Putin, putin has restored law and order to russia and is clamping down on crime. During Yeltsin's time it was a free for all.

So even though you agree that boris stole money from alot of average Russians you do not want him to stand trial in Russia. He is shaping government policy watch todays news. He is buying influence. Surely you cannot be happy with this fugitive clicking his fingers and your government jumping to his tune?

So Brazil wants Boris extradited to stand trial and Russia too.
Victims of his frauds want their money back.
Yet Miliband is backing the wrong horse.


Following your link above, this is what Oakridge sent me:

Not know which polonium isotope you are talking about, I will say we do not sell Po-210. We do have Po-209 which is ~$5000 per microcurie.



OAK RIDGE NATIONAL LABORATORY

MANAGED BY UT-BATTELLE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY

R. L. Cline, Manager

Isotope Business Office

P. O. Box 2008

Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6158

Re Putin's restoring law and order, it's the law and order of the charnel-house; the razing of Grozny, with rape, torture and dissapearances the norm; when Uzbekistan (I forget the dictator's name) sent Yanks packing after their very low-key protest (forced from them by US public opinion) on 500-odd shot in peaceful protest, Putin jumped in to take over the two big bases; journalist gunned down on exposing grotesque human rights abuses by Ruskies and their puppets in Chechenia.

It seems to me you have a starry-eyed adulation for Putin, like some had for Stalin, which blinds you to the obvious.

_________________
'And he (the devil) said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them; for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them'. Luke IV 5-7.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karlos
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outsider wrote:


Not know which polonium isotope you are talking about, I will say we do not sell Po-210. We do have Po-209 which is ~$5000 per microcurie

look i did not actually search for it myself. I dont want to become a patsy for a false flag.


You are comparing a fugitive on the run from two governments wanted for multi million pound frauds on two different continents, and you are comparing him with a democratically elected politician who has very high approval ratings.
Did you not know thet BB was implicated in attacks on rival car dealers in Russia, in assasinations and bombings as well as the theft, tax evasion, money laundering and fraud. And you are happy for this guy living in your country paying no tax and being protected by your police amd MPs

i think you should take the boulder out of your eye. BB is bad for Britain and the fact is he has entwined himself with the Labour party and with the Bush family. Why do you think the BBc is bending over backwards to campaign against his extradition. They had some character called Alex Godfarb on tv who was basically accusing Russia of all manner of things, the total biased reported allowed him his tirade of abuse and vitriol.

Boris is a fugative yes or no and should eb extradited to face trial.
His latest wheeze that someone was trying to kil him from the Hilton hotel is another rabbit he has pulled out of the hat to avoid facing his punishment.
My money is still on him going on the run, but while Gordon Brown and Miliband are standing cheek to cheek with him we might even go to war to protect him.
Look at the news they expelled his hitman.
why didnt they CHARGE THE HITMAN
talkabout false flag

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
PaulStott
Relentless Limpet Shill
Relentless Limpet Shill


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 326
Location: All Power To The People, No More Power To The Pigs

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Berezovsky, the key text is "Godfather of the Kremlin" by the late Paul Klebnikov.

This presents some pretty detailed evidence of his criminality (although that is hardly unique amongst Russian oligarchs) but more seriously his long term working relationships with Chechen warlords, or as most people would call them, terrorists.

Curiously David Blunkett not only allowed Berezovsky to settle here, but granted him British citizenship.

The saintly Mr Livenenko was actually living in a home in London bought for him by his employer, Berezovsky, although the media have done little sustained investigation into the nature of his work in London. Attempting to re-ignite the Cold War fits more closely to government objectives, so that is the route the media takes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
karlos
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New charges levied against Berezovsky on todays news.
The net is beginning to close further.
Wonder how Miliband will attempt to smokescreen proceedings this time.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
DaniYah
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if Boris Berezovsky did carry out the actual act, where would he get the Polonium from?
Has there been any scientific discussion about the potential of Polonium? Being that it is the most radioactive element known to man, this must be investigated.

Polonium extreme radioactivity is due to the fact that it is a very energetic element. Has anyone heard of a Polonium- powered nuclear energy plant?
If not, why isn't there?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
karlos
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a substance that was at one stage openly available for sale from laboratory suppliers
The Italian guy that came over and met Litvinenko in the sushi bar was probably the hired hitman
dont forget he claimed that the reason he did NOT eat while at the restaurant was because he had already eaten by visiting Pizza Hut before going to the sushi bar.
Now who would go and eat BEFORE going out for a meal?
And which Italian would be seen dead eating at pizza hut?

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
blackcat
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:15 am    Post subject: Huge oil discovery for Brazil Reply with quote

http://www.guardian.co.uk/brazil/story/0,,2208672,00.html

Quote:
Brazil hopes huge oil discovery will propel it into big league

· Field may yield up to 8bn barrels of light crude
· Find may not immediately solve energy crisis


View a graphic of Brazil's oil reserves here

Tom Phillips in Rio de Janeiro, Saturday November 10, 2007
The Guardian

Brazil was celebrating one of the world's biggest oil discoveries of recent years yesterday, a huge deposit off the coastline of Rio de Janeiro, which officials claim will take it into the major league of the world's biggest energy powers.
The find at the Tupi field, about 155 miles off Rio, could yield a total of 8bn barrels of light crude and represent 40% of the oil ever found in Brazil.

Dilma Rousseff, chief of staff in the president's office and tipped as a possible successor, said the discovery could propel Brazil "to the level of Saudi Arabia and Venezuela".

"This has changed our reality," she said. "It is something that could contribute to Brazil moving from an intermediate nation in the petrol sector to another level."
The Correio Braziliense newspaper heralded the discovery with the headline God is Brazilian. The find could propel Brazil into the "first division of petrol producers and exporters", it added.

Oil experts said it was the biggest find anywhere in the world for at least seven years and would push Brazil's reserves into the global top 10 but comparisons to Saudi Arabia may be over-optimistic. Brazil's total reserves will rise to about 20bn barrels as a result of the discovery, compared with Saudi Arabia's 260bn, whose daily production is four times that of the Brazil.

The share price of Brazil's state oil company Petrobras, which owns 65% of the field, rose by about 14% after the announcement.

The price of the British BG Group, which owns a 25% stake, also rose.

"If confirmed, the recoverable volumes of oil and gas will lift significantly the quantity of existing oil in Brazilian basins, putting Brazil among the countries with big reserves of oil and gas," the company said.

It described the Tupi field as the first part of a new oil "frontier" which potentially stretched for some 500 miles along the Brazilian coastline.

According to Petrobras, Brazil has the 24th biggest oil reserves in the world. The company said the find could push South America's biggest country up to ninth place.

But analysts said the find would not immediately solve Brazil's energy crisis. The country's natural gas sector has been in trouble since May last year when the Bolivian president, Evo Morales, moved to nationalise his country's gas and oil fields, on which Brazil is heavily dependant.

Adriano Pires, an energy expert from the Brazilian centre of infrastructure, said while the discovery was important the government had "put on this [media] show to divert the focus of attention from the gas crisis and the critical situation of the Brazilian electricity sector".

"In the short term this does not solve in any way the energy problems the country is suffering from," he said.

Relief for global oil markets, which have soared in recent months to all time highs close to $100 a barrel, will not come in the near future. Full-scale production will not start for at least five years and getting the oil out will be expensive and difficult because it is so deep under the surface.

The discovery is also unlikely to divert Brazil from its development of biofuels. Brazil is the world's biggest producer of ethanol.

Emilio La Rovere, a biofuel expert from Rio's federal university, said that in the long term the discovery was unlikely to change Brazil's focus on alternative fuels such as ethanol.

"The fact that this big reserve has been discovered and that Brazil is starting to think about being a producer does not mean that Brazil will abandon this," he said. But, he said, in the short term the discovery might mean that there would not be "such a great urgency in the economic sense" in pursuing alternative fuels.
[/url]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karlos
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news.
Shows those peak oil spammers that 96% of the planet still hasnt been surveyed for fossil fuels.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
The Watcher
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:52 am    Post subject: Brazil hits the Big Time. Reply with quote

Quote:
Brazil was celebrating one of the world's biggest oil discoveries of recent years yesterday...


Boy, those pesky dinosaurs got everywhere!

I wonder how how much longer the West will hold on to the construct that oil is a 'fossil fuel'?

Forecast:

James C and the other 'Peakers' will still be screaming "Fossil fuel ... finite resource ... $1,000+ per barrel ... end of civilisation ..." in 20, 30 & probably 40 years time.

The only reason oil might possibly hit $1,000 per Barrel, in the immediate future, is because the US$ will be worth Jack Chit!

As soon we started talking Euros per barrell, the US$ will go into terminal freefall ... karmically collapsing in 9.2 seconds perhaps?

The Watcher
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
James C
Major Poster
Major Poster


Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so glad you can pat yourself on the backs about this news. Phew, you can now return to naively thinking it's all the fault of the NWO can't you? Strange how one minute the oil companies are all thieving, swindling liars in collusion with the PTB but soon as one company announces a new find which sends its own share price up then that's OK and we can trust them to be telling the truth!

Firstly, let me tell you that this find at 8bn barrels represents just over a quarter of annual global consumption which is about 30bn. But yes it is an enormous find and will add to global reserves. The problem is, and people love to ignore this very simple fact, peak oil is not about reserves, it is about output. This new oil field will probably only start pumping oil in 5 years or so which is about industry standard time for any any new find. At best it might pump out a few million barrels/day (but it won't do that for a few years after it starts pumping), but when compared with the losses of a few million barrels per day in older fields elsewhere in the world then it probably won't help. So nobody in peak oil land is saying we will never find any more oil which would be stupid since we'll go on finding oil for decades and decades to come. The issue is how much of that oil is useful to us now at a time when demand is growing at 2% annually and yet output is dropping at 2% in the same time period. So this field really won't prevent the peak from happening between now and when Tupi finally starts pumping it's oil in a few years time but it will help to lengthen the period at which we remain at peak.

As for abiotic oil theory, well it could be true but the evidence is very poor to prove it is so. But even if true, one has to wonder why the oil companies (including those in Brazil) keep drilling so many holes all over the world. Why didn't they just stay at the very first wells and why have so many fields been abandoned if the oil is just oozing permanently out of the ground? But like I said, it's not about reserves, it's about output and if output cannot meet demand then the price will rise. Very simple really but it would appear that many people cannot understand this.

By the way, oil wasn't made from dinosaurs and it's not only the West which believes oil to be a fossil fuel. You may care to read this article about abiotic oil theory. Also, nearly all the land on the earth has now been explored for oil; only parts of Africa remain unexplored. So the oil companies are now turning to deep water sites and the ice caps which is causing arguments amongst nations expecially Canada and Russia. New oil fields will be found in these locations - thousands of them including some real monsters. But of course none of this extreme oil hunting would be necessary if abiotic oil were fulfilling its duty, would it The Watcher?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
acrobat74
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 836

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James C wrote:

Firstly, let me tell you that this find at 8bn barrels represents just over a quarter of annual global consumption which is about 30bn. But yes it is an enormous find and will add to global reserves. The problem is, and people love to ignore this very simple fact, peak oil is not about reserves, it is about output. This new oil field will probably only start pumping oil in 5 years or so which is about industry standard time for any any new find. At best it might pump out a few million barrels/day (but it won't do that for a few years after it starts pumping), but when compared with the losses of a few million barrels per day in older fields elsewhere in the world then it probably won't help. So nobody in peak oil land is saying we will never find any more oil which would be stupid since we'll go on finding oil for decades and decades to come. The issue is how much of that oil is useful to us now at a time when demand is growing at 2% annually and yet output is dropping at 2% in the same time period.


James, can you please explain why adding capacity can't help resolve the declining output problem, thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
James C
Major Poster
Major Poster


Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

acrobat74 wrote:
James C wrote:

Firstly, let me tell you that this find at 8bn barrels represents just over a quarter of annual global consumption which is about 30bn. But yes it is an enormous find and will add to global reserves. The problem is, and people love to ignore this very simple fact, peak oil is not about reserves, it is about output. This new oil field will probably only start pumping oil in 5 years or so which is about industry standard time for any any new find. At best it might pump out a few million barrels/day (but it won't do that for a few years after it starts pumping), but when compared with the losses of a few million barrels per day in older fields elsewhere in the world then it probably won't help. So nobody in peak oil land is saying we will never find any more oil which would be stupid since we'll go on finding oil for decades and decades to come. The issue is how much of that oil is useful to us now at a time when demand is growing at 2% annually and yet output is dropping at 2% in the same time period.


James, can you please explain why adding capacity can't help resolve the declining output problem, thanks.


If we doubled capacity then clearly it would prevent any peak and push it back by many years. But this find is tiny in the grand scheme of things and by the time this and any new oil field comes online, the declines in the older major oil fields in the rest of the world, such as Ghawar in Saudi Arabia, will be greater than the new oil being produced. Currently we discover about 1 barrel for every 4 consumed although this ratio is widening to 1 in 5, 6, 7 or even 10 according to some forecasts. Clearly this find will create a small ratio for this year but such finds are rare and have been in decline since the mid 1960's when exploration peaked.

And all the time demand is rising. According to the International Energy Agency, the oil companies will need to be pumping out an extra 8bn barrels per year to cope with demand within the next decade or so. Where, as Dick Cheney stated in 1999, is this oil going to come from if we can only find 7-8bn on average a year and we are expected to consume almost 40bn barrels per year by 2020? (Cheney went onto say that it would come from the Middle East of course hence the troubles there). Even at present consumption rates we only have 30+ years of oil left and output will drop year on year from a peak between now and then.

You may care to look at the US. They continue to make small finds and yet their output peaked in 1970/71. Production is almost half of what it was at peak and yet its reserves have increased. An important reason for this is that oil fields become harder to work on the older they get because the oil becomes thicker with depth and the pressure is lost over time which leads to declines in output. Nearly all of the oil industry is working on old oil fields which just cannot yield what they once did which means more energy and cost is associated with extraction pushing up the oil price even further.



How people can deny the reality of peak oil after looking at this graph is beyond me. There are graphs just like this one for over 60 countries worldwide (including the UK) and thousands for individual oil wells. To suggest that peak oil theory is only a theory is plain nonsense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wepmob2000
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 431
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'm baffled as to how anyone can believe Peak Oil is not a reality, and baffled as to what they believe the PTB can hope to achieve by making it up........?

As James rightly pointed out, a discovery of new oil reserves does not automatically equate to an increased supply, it has to be economically viable to extract that oil. If, using current technology, it would require 3 gallons of oil to extract 2 gallons from some of these remote reserves, where is the sense in that? If they discovered a trillion barrels of oil under the surface of Mars, would that still constitute a usable reserve?

Can any non-Peak Oilers provide any convincing arguments as to.....

-Why the Middle East has grown hugely in strategic importance since the 1960's? In WWII the North African campaign was regarded as a sideshow, now the Middle East is the centre of U.S priorities.

-Following on from this, why did the USA, UK, etc, react so emphatically following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990, then maintain operations against Iraq to this day? Why not react in a similar fashion, say, to the Chinese invasion of Tibet?

-Why the concern about Iran gaining a nuclear capability, when Pakistan, a much more volatile Islamic country, has them?

-Why is US oil production a mere fraction of what it was in the 1970's? And North Sea oil production?

-Why do oil companies spend millions on exploration if their known reserves have not / will not peak?

-Why doesn't an enterprising oil company announce it is in fact extracting abiotic oil - a never ending resource? Any company announcing this would see its market value reach stratospheric levels. What would you do as CEO of an oil company extracting abiotic oil?

-Why does the US government spend billions propping up Israel, supporting Saudi Arabia, and fighting wars that are suspiciously near oil sources? Why does the US government court such unpopularity by doing so? Why doesn't the USA pursue its more traditional isolationism, safe in the knowledge it doesn't need to safeguard its oversaeas sources of oil?

-Why isn't peak oil pushed 'in your face' like the 'War on Terror' and 'Global Warming'?


Last edited by wepmob2000 on Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:36 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6342

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes? No? which is it? Who the f*** cares thats get on with the revolution Mad
_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'


“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”


www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
James C
Major Poster
Major Poster


Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wepmob2000 wrote:

Personally I'm baffled as to how anyone can believe Peak Oil is not a reality, and baffled as to what they believe the PTB can hope to achieve by making it up........?


Nice post wepmob2000 and thanks for supporting this argument. Your questions should be discussed on this forum but probably won't be.

I notice that Stelios and The Watcher have decided not to contribute further. I wonder why?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TmcMistress
Mind Gamer
Mind Gamer


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James C wrote:

I notice that Stelios and The Watcher have decided not to contribute further. I wonder why?


Surely that's a rhetorical question? Laughing

Well done posts, btw. Can't really add much beyond my agreement.

_________________
"What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chek
Mega Poster
Mega Poster


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are an awful lot of people who take comfort in believing the world's problems are solely management related, and that with fairer/different/more equitable approaches everything would be just dandy.

While such approaches may - as Ghandi said - solve many problems, unfortunately as in the case of oil, it won't solve them all.

Concern over energy supply is only one part of that.
How many of us know that before Henry Ford came on the scene, that light grade gasoline was a waste by-product expensive to store and dispose of with no conceivable use? The internal combustion engine turned a leadweight burden into gold for the petroleum companies.

The harder part of peak oil will be substituting alternative sources for the entire chemical industry it supports. That is, the source of many of our manufacturing materials and also the food we, the 6 billion - not the land intensive, organic produce of the few - can afford to eat.

Substitution can be done as Germany tried on a small scale during the last Euro war, but as soon as conditions normalised they dropped their ersatz program asap due to the huge comparitive expense.

Never before has a sea-change in human consciousness been so urgently required, but that alone might not be enough.
Maybe we need a Manhattan-type Project for survival to redirect the military-industrial complex from their usual perceptions of easy short-term solutions.

_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.

It's them or us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blackcat
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chek wrote:
The harder part of peak oil will be substituting alternative sources for the entire chemical industry it supports. That is, the source of many of our manufacturing materials and also the food we, the 6 billion - not the land intensive, organic produce of the few - can afford to eat.

Hemp could provide the answer to that. http://www.hemp.co.uk/ That site is well worth a visit.

Quote:
Quite simply, hemp is the world’s premier renewable resource.

Fuel, food, fiber- the basic building blocks for an industrial society, all from a single plant source.

Hemp is the number one plant for producing clothing, paper, plastics, building materials, food, beverages, cosmetics, methanol fuel and an impressive array of cleaning and paint products.


Quote:
Henry Ford dreamed that someday automobiles would be grown from the soil. The Ford motor company, after years of research produced an automobile with a plastic body. Its tough body used a mixture of 70% cellulose fibres from Hemp. The plastic withstood blows 10 times as great as steel could without denting! Its weight was also 2/3 that of a regular car, producing better economy. Henry Ford was forced to use petroleum due to Hemp prohibition. His plans to fuel his fleet of vehicles with plant-power also failed due to Alcohol prohibition at the time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Angel - now passed away


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James C wrote:
wepmob2000 wrote:

Personally I'm baffled as to how anyone can believe Peak Oil is not a reality, and baffled as to what they believe the PTB can hope to achieve by making it up........?


Nice post wepmob2000 and thanks for supporting this argument. Your questions should be discussed on this forum but probably won't be.

I notice that Stelios and The Watcher have decided not to contribute further. I wonder why?


I wish people who argue that peak oil is a scam, that petroleum is abiotic and that climate change is not man-made would put forward easily understood evidence.

There seems to be a presumption among some in the 9/11 truth campaign that these three assertions are taken as given. But they are not. They are merely theories held by some truth campaigners.

I was talking last Friday to a professor who was one of the original group of founders of the campaign in the UK. She is all enthusiastic about how we should be supporting the climate change movement's efforts to reduce carbon emissions. I told her that a lot of people in the 9/11 truth campaign believe that climate change is not man-made. She seemed surprised. "What is the evidence?" she asked. I said there appears to be evidence that other planets are currently warming too, but I couldn't give her any details. She seemed unimpressed.

We then got on to the abiotic origins of petroleum theory. All I was saying was that there are a lot of people in the movement advancing these theories, but again I could offer her no evidence nor sources of evidence.

Whatever the truth about these matters, I wish campaigners would realise that if they want to maximise the size and the power of the 9/11 Truth Campaign:

- they should not assume that all supporters of it also support these theories

- they should be open, tolerant and welcoming of those who don't support such theories

- when advancing such theories they should make it clear that these theories are not part of the 9/11 truth campaign and such theorising should be backed up by clear evidence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chek
Mega Poster
Mega Poster


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackcat wrote:
Chek wrote:
The harder part of peak oil will be substituting alternative sources for the entire chemical industry it supports. That is, the source of many of our manufacturing materials and also the food we, the 6 billion - not the land intensive, organic produce of the few - can afford to eat.

Hemp could provide the answer to that. http://www.hemp.co.uk/ That site is well worth a visit.

Quote:
Quite simply, hemp is the world’s premier renewable resource.

Fuel, food, fiber- the basic building blocks for an industrial society, all from a single plant source.

Hemp is the number one plant for producing clothing, paper, plastics, building materials, food, beverages, cosmetics, methanol fuel and an impressive array of cleaning and paint products.


Quote:
Henry Ford dreamed that someday automobiles would be grown from the soil. The Ford motor company, after years of research produced an automobile with a plastic body. Its tough body used a mixture of 70% cellulose fibres from Hemp. The plastic withstood blows 10 times as great as steel could without denting! Its weight was also 2/3 that of a regular car, producing better economy. Henry Ford was forced to use petroleum due to Hemp prohibition. His plans to fuel his fleet of vehicles with plant-power also failed due to Alcohol prohibition at the time.


I don't disagree with what you're saying BC, but I'm not wholly convinced either.

Arable land is in decline due to a number of factors, and hemp production places another burden on the soil in competition with existing needs such as irrigation and fertilisation.
Added to that is the danger of adopting another monoculture dependant source for our needs.

I can see it could be a partial answer, but as long as it's realised there would be trade-offs to be made against what some (i.e. the poorest) already regard as the minimum for their own survival.

_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.

It's them or us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blackcat
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any existing land used for forestry to make wood pulp could be used for hemp growing and would free up three quarters of the same land for other hemp based products, as hemp yields four times what is harvested from a similar acreage of timber for wood pulp. Added to that, hemp will grow in poor soils unsuitable for most crops and adds nutrition to the soil when doing so. It is not grown solely because powerful industries have had it banned on the most spurious grounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chek
Mega Poster
Mega Poster


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackcat wrote:
Any existing land used for forestry to make wood pulp could be used for hemp growing and would free up three quarters of the same land for other hemp based products, as hemp yields four times what is harvested from a similar acreage of timber for wood pulp. Added to that, hemp will grow in poor soils unsuitable for most crops and adds nutrition to the soil when doing so. It is not grown solely because powerful industries have had it banned on the most spurious grounds.


Hey don't misunderstand - I'm a hemp enthusiast!
The more the merrier as they say.
But I also have a natural scepticism about apparent panaceas.

_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.

It's them or us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    9/11, 7/7, Covid-1984 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group