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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: Voice Morphing now in UK-Sheridan? |
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David Ray Griffin in his speech at Conway Hall spoke about voice morphing and how 'conversations' of passengers in the airplanes were heard by millions of people.
Now we have this interesting case. Despite losing their court case against Tommy Sheridan former leader of the Scotish Soc Party the Murdoch press has now unearthed 'tapes' which have been analysed by a Bin Laden FBI 'expert', ie the Hollywood department of the Sopranos soap opera of the war on terror.
Maybe coming to a home near you it seems as courts recently admitted they will accept taped evidence as 'real.
Frightening.
http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,,1885406,00.html |
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Ally Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 909 Location: banned
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: |
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I really doubt they'd need to morph Sheridan's voice to prove he's a sex crazed liar. |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:11 am Post subject: From the horses mouth... |
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Ally wrote: | I really doubt they'd need to morph Sheridan's voice to prove he's a sex crazed liar. |
Thats what the Murdoch press says and they use a... Bin Laden FBI expert to prove their point.
Tell me something I dont know.
What is a 'sex crazed' liar all about? Having sex, lying about it or reading the Sun and the News of the World?
I didn't know sex now constituted a crime, but then again I know sex is used to create or manufacture crimes.
Eg Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clintons bombardment of yugoslavia. |
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John White Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Its hardly incredible to believe any politician can't keep his pole out of holes...
But conspirator raises a very legitamate concern
One of the biggest problems I have comminicating with the general public is a lack of awareness and tendancy to doubt the existance of very well proven technologies. I've been beating my head against the wall over at No2ID recently regarding Verichip and RFID despite the fact that in various areas around the world these technologies are already well in use
With courts accepting tape evidance without corroboration, its fit-up-job fantastic with regard to voice morphing simply by faking up telephone calls or similar means _________________ Free your Self and Free the World |
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Ally Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 909 Location: banned
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:19 am Post subject: Re: From the horses mouth... |
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conspirator wrote: |
What is a 'sex crazed' liar all about? Having sex, lying about it or reading the Sun and the News of the World?
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i just didn't like the way Sheridan took the SSP down with his lies, know some good people that work hard for them. |
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SHERITON HOTEL Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 988
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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This sort of thing will always be questioned after hello mom, this is Mark Bingham. Oh what a tangled web we weave... |
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Ally Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 909 Location: banned
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: From the horses mouth... |
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[quote="Ally"] conspirator wrote: |
What is a 'sex crazed' liar all about? Having sex, lying about it or reading the Sun and the News of the World?
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i just didn't like the way Sheridan took the SSP down with his lies, know some good people that work hard for them.[/quot
I haven't paid particular attention to the trial as I wasn't in the UK at the time.
I dont know what the News of the World said precisely.
If visiting a brothel or sleeping with a woman other that your wife is a crime then Murdoch should be done for being a paedophile as he has a wife who is 29 and he is 70odd.
The issue boils down to why is the Murdoch press so against socialists in Scotland and why Sheridan in particular. Poll Tax or to do with introducing a precedent in court about taped evidence being granted a legal right for the first time.
If the second reason is the one, then Tommys alleged misdemenours are of secondary importance. The jury is still out on this one in my eyes. |
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gypsum Moderate Poster
Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 211 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Sheridan and the Scottish editor (I think) of the NOTW were arguing on Channel 4 news earlier. They're both very much sticking to their sides of the story. The NOTW still hasn't paid him the money he's owed and it's been 2 months since he won the case. All I know is we're in for a good one by the looks of things...whoever is in the wrong here is in serious trouble. |
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Ally Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 909 Location: banned
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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conspirator wrote: |
I haven't paid particular attention to the trial as I wasn't in the UK at the time.
I dont know what the News of the World said precisely.
If visiting a brothel or sleeping with a woman other that your wife is a crime then Murdoch should be done for being a paedophile as he has a wife who is 29 and he is 70odd.
The issue boils down to why is the Murdoch press so against socialists in Scotland and why Sheridan in particular. Poll Tax or to do with introducing a precedent in court about taped evidence being granted a legal right for the first time.
If the second reason is the one, then Tommys alleged misdemenours are of secondary importance. The jury is still out on this one in my eyes. |
If you're point is about Tommy's allegiance to his comrades then it's sorely missed, he wanted them to lie on the stand to protect his sordid background, as soon as they wouldn't he said the party wouldn't exist without him and went on to form another party called SOLIDARITY, oh the irony.
There's no doubt the right wing press liked to go after the SSP because they are the only socialists running a council in Britain, up in Glasgow, the Daily Record is even more hideous towards them. But Sheridan is a personality politician, the tanned Trotsky just loves the limelight, bet he'd jump a mile in the air at the chance to go on Big Brother much like our beloved Galloway.
Sheridan was in a tricky position tho, I wont take that away from him, he had to choose between Aids or cancer when it come to allowing the NOTW to get one over him or hoping his mates would lie in court on his behalf. When it comes down to it Tommy only ever thought of himself, not his 'comrades'. |
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xmasdale Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1959 Location: South London
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Ally wrote: | I really doubt they'd need to morph Sheridan's voice to prove he's a sex crazed liar. |
I imagine it's much easier to forge SSP minutes than to morph Tommy Sheridan's voice. Either way we don't know what evidence is reliable.
But hypocrisy seems to be the problem. We probably all have things in our past we wouldn't like to get into the press, but lying about them only makes matters worse. If we're all expected to have conventional only within marriage, between clean sheets, missionary position sex lives to be effective campaigners for 9/11 truth, I submit my resignation now and I suspect that the majority of truth campaigners ought to join me.
Noel |
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Ally Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 909 Location: banned
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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xmasdale wrote: |
I imagine it's much easier to forge SSP minutes than to morph Tommy Sheridan's voice. Either way we don't know what evidence is reliable.
But hypocrisy seems to be the problem. We probably all have things in our past we wouldn't like to get into the press, but lying about them only makes matters worse. If we're all expected to have conventional only within marriage, between clean sheets, missionary position sex lives to be effective campaigners for 9/11 truth, I submit my resignation now and I suspect that the majority of truth campaigners ought to join me.
Noel |
One of my oldest friends of like 15 years is close to the whole sordid saga and is devastated by the whole thing, Noel, you gotta ask yourself why Tommy REFUSED to take a lie detector test when those he is calling 'scabs' did AND passed it.
This isn't about sex but selling out your mates when you've done something outside the perameters of a friendship and expect others to lie for you. |
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xmasdale Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1959 Location: South London
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Ally wrote: |
This isn't about sex but selling out your mates when you've done something outside the perameters of a friendship and expect others to lie for you. |
I'll take your word for it, Ally. You've obviously followed the case. I haven't. But I agree that asking your mates to perjure themselves in order to cover up your own lies is despicably low.
Noel |
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Ally Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 909 Location: banned
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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xmasdale wrote: | But I agree that asking your mates to perjure themselves in order to cover up your own lies is despicably low.
Noel |
actually, I wouldn't hesitate to swear on the bible and lie in court for a friend if it were for the right reasons.
hope life treating u well doon in the big smoke noel. |
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Rabbie McM Minor Poster
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 53 Location: Motherwell
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting comment Ally about white lies.
I am no expert on the SSP nor Tommy Sheridan; however one thing I know is I'm happier seeing him come out on top in a dogfight with the News of the World. If those minutes are the real thing, it looks as though too many in his party didn't want to tell a "white lie" for him. I probably wouldn't either - but neither would I want to see someone turned over by the Murdoch press. I'm certain it's not just Mr Sheridan who has skeletons in the closet - much as I don't particularly approve of swingers clubs.
Whatever is the truth of all this (SSP infighting, human weakness or MI5 infiltration/dirty tricks) the SSP is now "split" for the Scottish elections next year. Stops them becoming a complication to New Labour dominance. |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: Catch 22 situation... |
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Rabbie McM wrote: | Interesting comment Ally about white lies.
I am no expert on the SSP nor Tommy Sheridan; however one thing I know is I'm happier seeing him come out on top in a dogfight with the News of the World. If those minutes are the real thing, it looks as though too many in his party didn't want to tell a "white lie" for him. I probably wouldn't either - but neither would I want to see someone turned over by the Murdoch press. I'm certain it's not just Mr Sheridan who has skeletons in the closet - much as I don't particularly approve of swingers clubs.
Whatever is the truth of all this (SSP infighting, human weakness or MI5 infiltration/dirty tricks) the SSP is now "split" for the Scottish elections next year. Stops them becoming a complication to New Labour dominance. |
But from visiting a swingers club to being a sex fanatic there is a world of difference. That all politicians are liars is in no doubt that is why they are in politics and not in the truth movement.
But the issue at stake is if your boss sets you up to say the 'truth' thus stitchin up your work colleagues in the process then no one benefits. The media whores are masters at this game. If a socialist party can break up over the private lives of its members then maybe it doesn't need to exist in the first place... |
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Ally Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 909 Location: banned
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Catch 22 situation... |
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conspirator wrote: |
But the issue at stake is if your boss sets you up to say the 'truth' thus stitchin up your work colleagues in the process then no one benefits. The media whores are masters at this game. If a socialist party can break up over the private lives of its members then maybe it doesn't need to exist in the first place... |
hit the nail on the head, sod Leaders, especially those with an individual agenda....but the SSP are good people, seems like Sheridan treated them like twenty quid whores.... |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Catch 22 situation... |
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[quote="Ally"] conspirator wrote: |
hit the nail on the head, sod Leaders, especially those with an individual agenda....but the SSP are good people, seems like Sheridan treated them like twenty quid whores.... |
The problem in general is none of these leaders work and the left has the history of these types of scandals.
Re-Gerry Healy and WRP. The media have limitless resources to follow you about and find dirt any dirt on you. Unless the remaining sections of the left get involved on 9/11 they have no hope of uncovering the big media interests. If Sheridan wanted to fight Murdoch he could have gone on the offensive plastering Glasgow with posters about the organisation.
70 year old with 29 year old!! Talking about morality with Page 3 tarts and stories of sex 24/7 in the News of the Screws...
You can't play Murdoch on his turf and win. He is the states representative. |
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brian Validated Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2005 Posts: 611 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Be handy if the technology was available to Sheridan and he could produce something along the lines of Blair saying he wished Saddam was still in power.
Game set and match to Sheridan but more importantly it would waken the public up to the possibilities and make our task that bit easier. |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: Perjury allegations |
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brian wrote: |
Game set and match to Sheridan but more importantly it would waken the public up to the possibilities and make our task that bit easier. |
Not if they do him for perjury.
Unless he sticks his neck out on 9/11 he will have a difficult time as after all they have achieved one objective split the party and half accusing the other half of being state agents.
Oldest trick in the book... |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject: Difficult to prove otherwise |
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Bongo Brian wrote: | I fail to see how audio or video evidence can ever be used as evidence in a court any more. Up to recently, it was a case of "The camera never lies!" and many criminals have been prosecuted on video evidence... but when this technology means anything is possible and that it would be impossible to prove whether video evidence was faked or not, this surely must force a change in the law?
This from The University of Cambridge...
http://svr-www.eng.cam.ac.uk/~hy216/VoiceMorphingPrj |
But it is used in courts thats the whole point.
The most absurd case also was the Jill Dando murder where the person convicted for it was convicted on one piece of evidence a bit of hair with DNA.
Another absurd case is when a policewoman was convicted of fingerprints in a crime scene which wasn't hers.
With this type of fraud going legal, Sheridan may have a difficult time proving he never said it, or it wasn't him... |
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Rabbie McM Minor Poster
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 53 Location: Motherwell
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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If Sheridan went public on 9-11 etc. my estimation of him would go up exponentially.
As things stand, I just see him as a career leftist, albeit with more guts than most.
He probably won't touch the issue though whilst most folk are still fairly ignorant about it. Most "leaders" are bad news anyway, unless they lead at an organic level so to speak. |
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Ally Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 909 Location: banned
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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I feel kinda bad slating him only because who he's up against - Newscorp, who are among the most despicable corporations in the world. I was amazed he won the case in the first place considering how nobled judges are but the jury of down to earth Glasweigens saved him from walking the plank. He would have swam ashore safe if they hadn't just brought in that double jeapordy law where you can be tried for the same crime twice.
See Damiola's killers finally finally got jailed today, that took about three prosecutions.
Last edited by Ally on Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ally Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 909 Location: banned
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Rabbie McM wrote: | If Sheridan went public on 9-11 etc. my estimation of him would go up exponentially.
As things stand, I just see him as a career leftist, albeit with more guts than most.
He probably won't touch the issue though whilst most folk are still fairly ignorant about it. Most "leaders" are bad news anyway, unless they lead at an organic level so to speak. |
Sheridan's newspaper sold tens of thousands in Glasgow, I pestered one of editors for years to push 9/11 truth, sent him every documentary that came out, he was well into it but wasn't pushy against counterparts in the organisation who thought it patently absurd Osama wasn't behind it. |
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paul wright Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 2650 Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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BBC1's spooks again hit it, although with its infamous conceit that MI5 are the good guys, in the latest episode, demonstrating the easy photoshopping of evidence,the setting up of people by 'forces', and its passing reference to Hutton as a whitewash _________________ http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
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scienceplease 2 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 1702
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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I've been checking out Voice Morphing for sometime - along with Speaker Recognition s/w - (not the same as Voice Recognition which is Speak-to-text).
The controversy over Autotune on X-Factor has provided the lead!
AV Voice Changer has been around for years! This does Voice Morphing - the retail version came out in early 2001 - and had been in development "for years"
http://www.download3k.com/Press-A-review-of-AV-Voice-Changer-Software- after-6.html
Quote: |
First released in early 2001, AV Voice Changer Software was almost the first product to be known in the market dedicated to voice changing at that time. Its main function is to change the voice, based on its timbre and pitch, in real time.
"It took us a long time to make the product, and a adequate time to bring its into the public", said Helen Le, Marketing manager of Avnex, who has accompanied the development of the product from the very beginning, "and we are looking for more prospects for the product in the future."
6 years is not a very long time in a product lifetime, but not a short period either. Voice Changer Software 1.0 was simplay able to change the voice; now the software has been divided into 3 different editions: Voice Changer Software Silver, Gold and Diamond, featuring four different levels of usage, from fun use online to professional uses. |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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In the week that Murdoch got Vince Cable out of the decision making process in his Monopoly takeover of all of British media, Sheridan goes down by a jury made up of 10 women....
This farce is reminiscent of trials in the USA where blacks were convicted by all white juries.
What was Sheridans crime? Fighting Murdoch, pure and simple.
Politicians, judges and banksters live in sex clubs or are known to frequent them regularly alongside other salubrious establishments
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Friday, Dec 24 2010 3PM -1°C 6PM -1°C 5-Day Forecast
Guilty of lying: Tommy Sheridan told he faces jail for perjury over 'swingers' case which netted him £200,000
By Michael Seamark
Last updated at 1:03 PM on 24th December 2010
* Comments (202)
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Controversial politician Tommy Sheridan is facing prison after being convicted yesterday of lying during his defamation case against the News of the World.
The 46-year-old Scot was awarded £200,000 in damages four years ago after the newspaper claimed he was an adulterer who visited swingers’ clubs.
But after a sensational 12-week trial at which politicians, tabloid journalists and even Andy Coulson, Downing Street’s Director of Communications, gave evidence, a jury found Sheridan guilty of perjury during the 2006 case.
And today it emerged that Lothian and Borders Police spent a staggering £1 million chasing Sheridan over four years.
The judge at Glasgow High Court, Lord Bracadale, released the former MSP on bail until next month but told him: ‘You have been convicted of the serious offence of perjury and must return to court expecting to begin a prison sentence.’
Tommy and Gail Sheridan leaving Glasgow High Court tonight where he was convicted of lying under oath during his successful defamation action against the News of the World newspaper in 2006
Tommy and Gail Sheridan leaving Glasgow High Court yesterday where he was convicted of lying under oath during his successful defamation action against the News of the World newspaper in 2006
Scrum: Surrounded by press after the trial where he made an emotional plea to let him spend Christmas with his family
Scrum: Surrounded by press after the trial where he made an emotional plea to let him spend Christmas with his family
Sheridan left court with his wife Gail, also 46, who had perjury charges dropped against her earlier in the trial.
His solicitor Aadmer Anwar read a defiant statement on behalf of the former Scottish Socialist Party leader saying: ‘I have fought the power of News International all of my political life and I make no apologies for taking on the might of Rupert Murdoch.
‘Several millions pounds of money was spent investigating me and my wife. Is it not time that similar resources were devoted to investigating the activities of the News of the World?’
Mrs Sheridan said: ‘I would like to thank everybody from across Scotland for their wonderful support throughout the last six years that they’ve given to Tommy and I.
‘Our family and our friends, our real friends, have stood by us. I have and will always stand by Tommy.’
The guilty verdict was the culmination of a lengthy battle between Sheridan, ex-leader of the Scottish Socialist Party, and the newspaper.
He originally sued after it published allegations that he was an adulterer who had attended a seedy swingers’ club, Cupid’s in Manchester.
During the 2006 civil case 11 party colleagues testified against Sheridan, saying he had admitted attending the sex club, but the jury believed him and he was awarded £200,000 damages.
Tender moment: Tommy Sheridan kisses his wife, Gail, as they left the court - he has been told to expect a prison sentence
Tender moment: Tommy Sheridan kisses his wife, Gail, as they left the court - he has been told to expect a prison sentence
Devoted: Gail Sheridan has stood by her husband despite the personal details that came out in court
Devoted: Gail Sheridan has stood by her husband despite the personal details that came out in court
Homeward bound: Sheridan drives him and his wife home as his time left as a free man ticks away
Homeward bound: Sheridan drives him and his wife home as his time left as a free man ticks away
Two months later Edinburgh’s Procurator Fiscal ordered police to investigate allegations of perjury during the case at the Court of Session.
During that police investigation the News of the World published details of a videotape, secretly recorded by Sheridan’s best man George McNeilage, in which the politician admitted visiting the swingers’ club.
Sheridan and his wife were subsequently charged with perjury and during the resulting trial, which began in October, dozens of witnesses gave evidence against the former MSP.
The jury heard allegations of Sheridan’s affairs with journalist Anvar Khan and former SSP colleague Katrine Trolle, and the videotape from Mr McNeilage formed a crucial part of the prosecution case.
Katrine Trolle leaves the Court of Session in Edinburgh after giving evidence
Katrine Trolle leaves the Court of Session in Edinburgh after giving evidence
Sheridan accused his former colleagues of 'spewing bile' against him as part of a 'political civil war' in the Left of the party.
The Prime Minister’s communications chief Mr Coulson, who was editor of the News of the World when Sheridan won his damages, gave evidence earlier this month. He was questioned by Sheridan, who conducted his own defence, over whether the videotape was genuine.
Sheridan asked whether he had seen his face on the tape. Mr Coulson replied: ‘No, but I heard your voice. We matched it to other recordings of your voice and it seemed pretty authentic to me.’
In a five-hour closing speech, Sheridan broke down as he told the jury they could deprive him of Christmas with his wife and five-year-old daughter Gabrielle.
‘The News of the World and the Murdoch press have tried to destroy me politically and do me in,’ he said. ‘I am not frightened of them and I will continue to fight them. I am not frightened of [the] police.
‘I am frightened of you because you can do something that the News of the World will never be able to do. You can separate me from my wife and you can make me break a promise to my daughter that I would spend Christmas with her.’ Alex Prentice, the Advocate Depute, told the jury there was a ‘compelling and convincing case’ that Sheridan committed perjury.
The QC said: ‘Why should we be interested if Tommy Sheridan had sexual relations at a sex club or extra- marital relations? There is no victim as there is in murder and rape case.
‘The reason is that there is a charge of perjury, which is knowingly giving false evidence. That is a serious crime. Our whole system of justice falls apart if perjury becomes acceptable behaviour.’
After the guilty verdicts, Lord Bracadale requested background reports and said any submissions by Sheridan – who told the jury he had spent time in jail after his protest against the Poll Tax and nuclear weapons – could be made at the sentencing hearing on January 26.
Scottish News of the World editor Bob Bird said the paper had lodged an appeal against the 2006 verdict.
He went on: ‘Today’s verdict is a vindication of good investigative journalism. We expect our successful appeal to bring an end to this matter.’ |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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So we are no longer expected to believe anymore what we see as we cant see clearly what is being shown (eg Sheridan in the alleged video, or Saddam during his execution) but we are accepted to accept what we ...hear (9/11 passenger phone calls on planes).
It was orginally 13 women and 2 men and then it was reduced to 13 women and 1 man. Sounds fair dont it? |
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scienceplease 2 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 1702
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Model Talker was described on Radio 4 this morning.
It is a tool to mimic a voice - first it learns then it repeats - not quite voice morphing - it reproduces your own voice's syllables...
http://www.modeltalker.com/moreinfo.html
Around since 1996... based in Newark, Delaware - just down the road from Washington DC... |
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