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Disco_Destroyer
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 Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:38 am Post subject: Evaluation of Inflation/Worthlessness of Today's FIAT Money |
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This post is in progress 
recently found 2x 1806 coins so here we have a buy table, note the coinage is valued by it's weight in Metal. I will add the weight in grams to table then maybe look at current Metal pricing to see what we can buy today. Oh we may see the scam starting in 1700's with Token coinage where the coin is not worth it's weight in Gold :0 So for the post I'll use the proper pre token coinage weights 
Having difficulty finding the weight of a Silver Shilling so will probably calculate with the 1797 Cartwheel copper coins and do it all with copper!
28.34 grams copper/alloy per penny
| Quote: | Prices: Britain. Food Prices. Nottingham. 1796-1806.
Commodity_______|__Price__|___weight in g_|__Copper equiv to actual
________________|________|______________|_today's price range
4 lb. Loaf of Bread......1 s. 2 d.......396.76...........£1.59/£2.00-3.00
1 lb. Cheese..............8 d..............226.72...........£0.91/£2.50+
1 lb. Butter................1 s. 3 d........425.1............£1.70/£2.60+
1 lb. Salt...................4 ½ d...........127.53..........£0.51/£0.15-1.60
1 lb. Beef..................9 d...............255.06..........£1.02/£2.50+
1 lb. Mutton...............7 d...............198.38..........£0.79/
1 lb. Veal..................8 d...............226.72..........£0.91/
1 lb. Pork..................8 d...............226.72..........£0.91/£2.00+
1 lb. Bacon................1 s. 0 d........340.08...........£1.36/£3.00+ pre cut
1 Fat Goose...............5 s. 6 d........1870.44.........£7.48/when I find 1
2 Ducks....................5 s. 6 d........1870.44..........£7.48/£20.00
2 Chickens................4 s. 6 d........1530.36.........£6.12/£6.60-20.00
1 lb. Soap.................10 d.............283.4............£1.13/£1.20
1 lb. Candles.............10 d.............283.4............£1.13/£
1 Bushel Barley..........4 s. 4 d.......1473.68.........£5.89
1 Bushel Oats............3 s. 1 ½ d....1062.75.........£4.25
1 Bushel Malt.............8 s. 6 d.......2890.68.........£11.56
Source: Paul Mantoux. The Industrial Revolution in the Eighteenth Century. N.Y.: Harper & Row, 1961 |
Current LME copper price is £4.41832 a Kilo and going down. (Time to sell  ) 0.004p a gram
So far of interest apart from the low Meat Prices per Lb it seems most of the other commodities are about right in value by today's standards Next I'll add prices at today's rates bear with me :p So it would seem with the exception of meat the other items are of pretty much the same value over 200 years ago. But hold on how many pennies were there to a pound lol
I notice also Cheese is cheap but suggest both these facts are backed up by all farms making cheese and keeping livestock ei. cheap and plentiful locally
_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Last edited by Disco_Destroyer on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:34 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: |
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finally getting somewhere and what a surprise to find us being short changed again I guess though it could be silver supply price hikes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shilling_(British_coin)
| Quote: | | For the Great Recoinage of 1816, the mint was instructed to coin one troy pound (weighing 5760 grains) of standard (0.925 fine) silver into 66 shillings, or its equivalent in other denominations. This effectively set the weight of the shilling, and its subsequent decimal replacement 5 new pence coin, at 87.2727 grains (or 5.655 grams) with a diameter of 24 mm from 1816 to 1990, when the new smaller 5p coin was introduced. |
http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/onesh.html
| Quote: | Milled shillings from 1658 weigh about 6.0 g and have a diameter of 25-26 mm.
After the Great Recoinage which started in 1816 the shilling was produced almost every year until decimalisation. These new shillings weigh about 5.7 g and have a diameter of 24 mm. |
Below link is a list of Silver Content in Troy Ounces of British Coins from 1066
http://www.treasurerealm.com/coinpapers/england/englishsilver.html
But this is the 1st sign of moving the nation away from Standard
| Quote: | Halfpenny Trade Tokens
http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/halfp.html
During the period 1787 to 1797, and again between 1811 and 1812, many private trade tokens were manufactured to fill the gap left by the absence of official small change.
A discussion of these pieces is beyond the scope of this web site, but very worn tokens are so common that they have little value.
The following references may be of help if readers wish to pursue the interest further:
The Provincial Token-Coinage of the Eighteenth Century, by Dalton & Hamer
British Tokens and Their Values, Seaby
The Nineteenth Century Token Coinage by W.J.Davis
Silver Token-Coinage 1811-1812 by R.Dalton |
Turns out the 1806/07 pennies are also Token coinage being not worth their weight 
_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer |
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Interesting 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_Act
| Quote: | Act of 1751
The first act, the Currency Act of 1751 (24 Geo. II c. 53), restricted the emission of paper money by the colonies of New England. These colonies had issued paper fiat money known as "bills of credit" to help pay for military expenses during the French and Indian Wars. Because more paper money was issued than what was taxed out of circulation, the currency depreciated in relation to the British pound sterling. The resultant inflation was harmful to merchants in Great Britain, who were forced to accept the depreciated currency from colonists for payment of debts.
The act limited the future emission of bills of credit to certain circumstances. It allowed the existing bills to be used as legal tender for public debts (i.e. paying taxes), but disallowed their use for private debts (e.g. for paying merchants).[1] |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_pound_sterling
| Quote: | | As a result of a report written by Newton on September 21, 1717 to the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury[10] the bimetallic relationship between gold coins and silver coins was changed by Royal proclamation on December 22, 1717, forbidding the exchange of gold guineas for more than 21 silver schillings.[11] Due to differing valuations in other European countries this inadvertently resulted in a silver shortage as silver coins were used to pay for imports, while exports were paid for in gold, effectively moving Britain from the silver standard to its first gold standard, rather than the bimetallic standard implied by the proclamation. |
http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/onesh.html
| Quote: | | The second was the Dorrien and Magens shilling of 1798. Several London bankers had acquired about 30000 pounds worth of silver which was sent to the Mint for coining. Unfortunately the Lords of the Committee in Council declared the coins illegal, and the very great majority were melted down. One of the banks went by the glorious name of 'Messrs Dorrien, Magens, Mello, Martin and Harrison'. It seems that the government were worried that the issue would stimulate a demand for more coins which they would have been powerless to satisfy, as the price of silver was very high. |
http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/fives.html
| Quote: | | After 1751 no crowns were issued for 67 years. Due to the wars against France and the United States there was an acute shortage of silver. A number of Spanish 8 real pieces had been captured and circulated unofficially. In 1797 the need for a crown sized coin was becoming very evident, so the decision was made to stamp the Spanish coins with an oval stamp bearing the head of George III. These coins were valued at 4s9d, thus bringing comments such as 'Two Kings' heads are not worth a Crown'. Later an octagonal stamp was brought into use. |
_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer |
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Disco_Destroyer
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Loss of spending power (inflation):
| Quote: | The small denomination coins if made of copper would have more intrinsic value, which is why they are mostly steel. Which shows how much purchasing power has been lost, I.E. devalued even by to days standards. But it gets even worse when we look at the original Pound Stirling.
The original Pound Stirling (until 1694 England, Scotland a year later when they started issuing Paper to represent it) was one pound in weight of fine silver. So looking at the spot price of silver, just one penny should have the same purchasing power as about 3 “Bank of England Notes” or 306 “Bank of England Notes” for One Pound (Stirling)
Which shows how much it has lost its purchasing power. (And allowing for oz to troy oz)
And gold has about 40 times more purchasing power than silver. So one once of gold would have approximately the spending power of 2270 “Bank of England Notes”.
But they as we know, are also manipulated markets.
Copper is about 1.6388 GBP / 16 = approximately one oz of copper 10.25 pennies GBP
One Ounce Copper coins
39mm in diameter
http://www.air-tites.com/copper-coins.htm |
Intrinsic value of crown coins, means of exchange:
| Quote: | Approximately:
GBP penny = 20 mm x 2mm = 0.628 cubic centimetres,
Copper has a mass of 8.9 grams per cubic centimeter,
8.9 x 0.628 = 5.5892 grams,
5.5829 grams = 0.196931002 ounces,
10.25 pennies GBP x 0.196931002 = 2.0185427705 pennies GBP,
So approximately one GBP penny of the same size made from copper would have the spending power value of 2.0185427705 (twice as much value in scrap)
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So-called Lawful bank: (paper and/or credit) (which can work, if it's done right.)
| Quote: |
If it can't be explained publicly I have little interest in it.
Watching the video it was said the £100 would be kept and not spent, but if you create your own out of thin air, why would they even need that £100. If it can't be used, Is one question?
What is to stop those who issue the * from issuing more to themselves?
There are answers to it, so why can't it be said publicly if it’s in the public’s interest?
"Of course, there will be many questions need answering, but just for the moment all registering on the site means is that someone is interested. As for the trust aspect, I feel the same and that is understandable, given the many lies and deceit we have suffered over the years. However, it is worth looking into and as for the hundred quid   I'm skint, and if I had a 100 quid I'd be stocking up on food and lashing out on a new set of strings for my guitar, oh, and a decent pair of army surplus boots"
-----------
* TAMS
I could tell you and I know others who could tell you what will work. But why won't people discuss them. And the £10 to help pay for the operational costs of the system at the start is ok, perhaps. And the £100 to *1000, isn’t much of a dividend or * compared to the national constructive effort that it should be compared to at the start and onwards. Some of the subsequent loans maybe ok, but again they could be discussed as people can see it has its flaws on subsequent loans too. The same with "redeemed and the credit cancelled" automatic measure, according to the production and measure of value of * and the sum total, could be shown or discussed.
Comparatively.
The sum total of national constructive effort is the true basis of the issue of money, whether in the form of currency or of credit.
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So-called Lawful bank (paper and/or credit): (which can work, if it's done right)
"At this time also we will have in place a board of directors voted for by the members for the proper and transparent administration of these funds."
How can it work, if they don't know how it could or should work, and at the same time the public (members) also not know how it should or could work.
--
perfecteconomy.com:
Franklin explained that "If for instance a first man raises fowl, and a second raises feed, and the first intends in the next season to double his production, he may approach the second, wanting him to produce the additional feed required. They agree how much of the production of each will be traded to the other, and their eventual contracts are evidence of their promises to deliver to each other."
"Their notes may then be circulated as currency."
"The cultivator of the feed for instance may write a note against the fowl to be delivered to him, to pay for a doctor to take care of his family. The doctor may pay for goods with the same note at the local store. The store then will ultimately collect the fowl originally promised to the cultivator. When the production is delivered, the respective notes are fulfilled, and the money passes from circulation."
"Without even a need for administration, the circulation is perpetually regulated according to need. There is no inflation or deflation because the circulation always arises and passes with the life and consumption of the production."
"Neither therefore do we suffer multiplication of debt by interest. In fact, the very ability of the people to issue their promises to pay itself makes it possible to sustain whatever prosperity we are capable of."
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The same as this above "perfecteconomy.com" is not complete, but is the whole basis of the mathematically so-called perfect economy.
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_British_penny_(1714-1901)
| Quote: | Copper pennies
As can be seen from the minting dates given above, there was a great shortage of government-issued small change in George III's reign. The situation was so bad that a great many merchants and mining companies issued their own copper tokens e.g. the Parys Mining Company on Anglesey issued huge numbers of tokens, although their acceptability was strictly limited. In 1797 Matthew Boulton was authorised by the government to strike copper pennies and twopences at his Soho Mint, in Birmingham; the time was not yet right for a token coinage, so they actually had to contain one or two pence worth of copper, i.e. they weighed one and two ounces each (penny — 28.3 grams, diameter 36 millimetres). The large size of the coins, combined with the thick rim where the inscription was incuse i.e. punched into the metal rather than standing proud of it, led to the coins being nicknamed Cartwheels.
In 1806 and 1807, another 150 tons of copper was coined into pennies at the Soho Mint, although this time the money was a token coinage with each penny only containing 18.9 grams of copper and being 34 millimetres in diameter. |
_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer |
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Holy ***
I never knew how hard it was to find a grain price on the web I give up 
Anyhow this is interesting. Back to the Russian fires I guess
| Quote: | UK wheat stocks dip as prices rise
UK wheat stocks are 19pc lower than last year, but still far higher than in June 2008, when food prices last peaked.
The price of wheat is still around 45pc higher than at the start of July Photo: Getty Images
By Amy Wilson6:00AM BST 20 Aug 2010Comment
Stocks of home-grown wheat held in Britain's ports, merchants and co-ops fell to 719,000 tonnes at the end of June, from 885,000 tonnes last year, according to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. However it was still greater than the 469,000 tonnes held in June 2008, before that year's record crop.
Stocks of barley grown in Britain increased to 463,000 tonnes from 375,000 tonnes last year and 168,000 tonnes in June 2008.
The numbers from Defra came as wheat prices climbed in both the US and Europe on the expectation Russia will have to import large amounts of grain after its own crop was hit by wildfires and the worst drought since records began. The country, which was the world's third-biggest wheat exporter last year, has also banned exports of grain and flour.
Analysts have estimated Russia may need to import between 1.5m and 2.2m tonnes of wheat this year, however one Russian newspaper put the figure at 5m tonnes. That number was denied by the Russian government.
Ukraine, one of the most likely sources of grain imports for Russia, is examining whether to limit exports. The country has delayed a decision while it looks as how much wheat and barley has already been shipped.
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Wheat futures in Paris rose €6.50 (£5.34) to €211.75 in afternoon trading, after climbing as high as €213.50.
The price has declined from a peak of €236 earlier this month, but is still around 45pc higher than at the start of July.
In the US, wheat prices rose for a second day, with futures climbing to $7.1675 a bushel in Chicago. Figures showed US exports of the grain were 4.4pc higher than the previous week.
Shares of food makers and brewers suffered earlier this month as the wheat price shot up, but companies including the world's biggest brewer, Anheuser-Busch InBev, said they have hedged the cost of ingredients this year. |
Anheuser-Busch InBev=Monsanto of the brewing Industry
Anyway looks like I may have to leave the grains off
_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer |
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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. | Quote: | | Stop feeding their corrupt system, dont buy non-mandatory insurance policies, dont use electronic banking where possible, invest in each other rather than some imaginary potential profit claimed as a stock 'performance', |
Grain Prices Soaring, but Who Will Thrive?
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/08/20/grain-prices-soaring- but-who-will-thrive.aspx
Higher food prices - a problem, or the solution?
http://www.farminstitute.org.au/_blog/Ag_Forum/post/Higher_food_prices _-_a_problem,_or_the_solution/
http://totalinvestor.blogspot.com/2011_02_04_archive.html
| Quote: | | Stop feeding their corrupt system, dont buy non-mandatory insurance policies, dont use electronic banking where possible, invest in each other rather than some imaginary potential profit claimed as a stock 'performance', |
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Well said, I don't where possible 
Going by my table above the fact no poor sobs work the land and advances in agriculture/manufacture, Land holders and Corporations must be raking it in
_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer |
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Disco_Destroyer wrote: | Well said, I don't where possible
Going by my table above the fact no poor sobs work the land and advances in agriculture/manufacture, Land holders and Corporations must be raking it in |
I know that DD, just helping out as you know
Permaculture short term, long term.
This is more short term(this and next season) growing. (long term can take 10s of years) long-term message in it too. Apologies for, well you’ll see, but what a guy.
Brilliant film with great information and a good spiritual message:
http://www.backtoedenfilm.com/index.html |
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