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DeFecToR
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 Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: FBI: No evidence linking Osama Bin Laden to 9/11 (!) |
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http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
Very interesting that a high ranking FBI official would make the statement that they have no evidence connecting Bin Laden to the WTC attacks.
If you guys are so sure of the validity of the offical CT then you might want to give them a call maybe.
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Arkan_Wolfshade
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: FBI - "No evidence linking BL to 911" |
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| DeFecToR wrote: | http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
Very interesting that a high ranking FBI official would make the statement that they have no evidence connecting Bin Laden to the WTC attacks.
If you guys are so sure of the validity of the offical CT then you might want to give them a call maybe. |
In order for the DOJ (the FBI only investigates) to file an indictment against him for 9/11 they would need a paper trail showing he gave the order, not just that his organization performed the act. That said
| Quote: |
Usama bin Laden[5] is the leader of Al Qaeda, and is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States embassies in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. Usama and Al-Qaeda are also responsible for the October 12, 2000, attack on the USS Cole off the coast of Yemen, which killed 17. Although bin Laden also later appeared on the first publicly released FBI Most Wanted Terrorists list on October 10, 2001, he was listed there for the 1998 embassy attack, and not for his alleged role in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks that killed nearly 3,000, because the most wanted lists name fugitives charged with a crime by a prosecutor or under indictment by a grand jury. Bin Laden was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in, for instance, the federal indictment against convicted terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui, but has not been formally indicted for his role in the September 11, 2001 attacks.
Bin Laden is the subject of a $25 million reward through the State Department's Rewards for Justice program targeting international fugitives, especially terrorists, plus $2 million through a program developed and funded by the Air Line Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.[6][7][5]
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source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Ten_Most_Wanted_Fugitives
| Quote: |
IN ADDITION, BIN LADEN IS A SUSPECT IN OTHER TERRORIST ATTACKS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
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source: http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
Additionally, pre-9/11 terrorist acts were treated by the gov't as criminal acts and investigated/prosecuted as such. Post-9/11 the shift has been, obviously, to treat terrorist acts as acts of war, which is handled in a completely different manner. Also, having insufficient evidence for the DOJ to file an indictment does not equate to having no evidence. |
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brian
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Far cry from the pre Afghanistan attack when Bin Laden was guilty no matter what.
From - We dont need no stinking evidence - to - Osama is entitled to the same protection as any good law abiding US citizen
FBI PROTECTS OSAMA BIN LADEN’S “RIGHT TO PRIVACY” IN DOCUMENT RELEASE
--In a September 24, 2003 declassified “Secret” FBI report obtained by Judicial Watch, the FBI invoked Exemption 6 under FOIA law on behalf of bin Laden, which permits the government to withhold all information about U.S. persons in “personnel and medical files and similar files” when the disclosure of such information “would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.” (5 U.S.C. § 552(b)(6) (2000)) -
http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_5286.shtml |
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: FBI - "No evidence linking BL to 911" |
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| Arkan_Wolfshade wrote: |
In order for the DOJ (the FBI only investigates) to file an indictment against him for 9/11 they would need a paper trail showing he gave the order, not just that his organization performed the act.
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Precisely. THERE IS NO PAPER TRAIL. Besides, the article states that there is no hard evidence, paper trail or otherwise.
| Arkan_Wolfshade wrote: |
Usama bin Laden[5] is the leader of Al Qaeda, and is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States embassies in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. Usama and Al-Qaeda are also responsible for the October 12, 2000, attack on the USS Cole off the coast of Yemen, which killed 17. Although bin Laden also later appeared on the first publicly released FBI Most Wanted Terrorists list on October 10, 2001, he was listed there for the 1998 embassy attack, and not for his alleged role in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks that killed nearly 3,000, because the most wanted lists name fugitives charged with a crime by a prosecutor or under indictment by a grand jury. Bin Laden was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in, for instance, the federal indictment against convicted terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui, but has not been formally indicted for his role in the September 11, 2001 attacks.
Bin Laden is the subject of a $25 million reward through the State Department's Rewards for Justice program targeting international fugitives, especially terrorists, plus $2 million through a program developed and funded by the Air Line Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.[6][7][5]
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Ten_Most_Wanted_Fugitives
IN ADDITION, BIN LADEN IS A SUSPECT IN OTHER TERRORIST ATTACKS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
source: http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
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LOL. Good to see you quoting Wikipedia over the FBI.
| Arkan_Wolfshade wrote: |
Additionally, pre-9/11 terrorist acts were treated by the gov't as criminal acts and investigated/prosecuted as such. Post-9/11 the shift has been, obviously, to treat terrorist acts as acts of war, which is handled in a completely different manner. Also, having insufficient evidence for the DOJ to file an indictment does not equate to having no evidence. |
Okay. So not enough evidence to file an indictment, but enough to go to war.
Yet again, pathetic.
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MR_SNIPER
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: rtrt |
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hmmmmmmm.......
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TimmyG
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Okay. So not enough evidence to file an indictment, but enough to go to war.
Yet again, pathetic. |
exactly.
complete madness. the fbi have publically said there is no hard evidence. yet us and uk troops have killed thousands upon thousands of innocent people based on a made up story.
if you claim to be a critical thinker and you believe osama was behind it, you really have no right to say that our opinions complete conjecture
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Last edited by TimmyG on Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| TimmyG wrote: |
if you claim to be a critical thinker and you believe osama was behind it, you really have no right to say that our opinions complete conjecture |
Here here. I find it to be a symptom of our collective madness that the FBI THEMSELVES say they have no evidence linking BL to 911, yet WE are the wackos for questioning the official story.
Nonsense.
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Jay Ref
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| DeFecToR wrote: | | TimmyG wrote: |
if you claim to be a critical thinker and you believe osama was behind it, you really have no right to say that our opinions complete conjecture |
Here here. I find it to be a symptom of our collective madness that the FBI THEMSELVES say they have no evidence linking BL to 911, yet WE are the wackos for questioning the official story.
Nonsense. |
Arkan already addressed the FBI question. Now that it's been answered you guys can either close the thread, or endlessly carp about your critics...but not a damned one of you is going to be able to assail the logic or veracity of what Arkan told you.
And you wonder why everyone not a CTer thinks you nuts are nut... 
-z
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freddie
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Jef Ray said:
| Quote: | | Arkan already addressed the FBI question. |
Arkan wrote:
| Quote: | | having insufficient evidence for the DOJ to file an indictment does not equate to having no evidence. |
So what is the evidence then? - The videos?
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: |
Arkan already addressed the FBI question. Now that it's been answered you guys can either close the thread, or endlessly carp about your critics...but not a damned one of you is going to be able to assail the logic or veracity of what Arkan told you.
And you wonder why everyone not a CTer thinks you nuts are nut...
-z |
"LA LA LA. I CANT HEAR YOU. LA LA LA. MUSLIMS DID IT. LA LA LA. MUST INVADE PARAGUAY. LA LA LA"
Come on man. Seriously. I know we're not about to change the minds of you guys, but come on now. You must at least be able to see why we believe what we believe?
Or ar we just fick in der hed? Nuts an wotevr.
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: |
Arkan already addressed the FBI question.
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BTW, Arkan did a REALLY great job of solving that issue. TOTALLY convincing.
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scubadiver
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe there is another FBI website for official CTer's.
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TimmyG
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Arkan already addressed the FBI question. Now that it's been answered you guys can either close the thread, or endlessly carp about your critics... |
oh i see. arkan is god is he?
his word is final clearly
i don't really see how arkan has disproved what we are saying!
no hard evidence. the fbi. NO HARD EVIDENCE. yet the whitehouse has named osama and attacked afganistan.
what don't you understand?
sorry if i sound sarcastic here. but it isn't that complicated.
the public have been led to believe that osama is behind the 9/11 attacks. yet the fbi blatently admits there is no hard evidence to back up this claim.
you are telling us we are nut jobs for not believing osama bin laden is responsible for the attacks of 9/11?!
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Oooh, its fun in here isnt it? 
Come on guys. FBI says NO HARD EVIDENCE.
Theres gotta be some way of spinning out the truth.
Maybe they actually do have some hard evidence, but havent told Rex Tomb about it. No?
Chief of Investigative Publicity? Sounds made up? Maybe the story is a fake, no?
COME ON GUYS. Theres got to be some explanation. ANY explanation other than 'Bin Laden didnt do it'.
Be inventive. You're good at it. I mean, if you can look at this image;
and say that its being caused by a 'pressure wave', then surely you can figure aliens or a quantum theory in to the FBI's list.
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Apologies all round. It would seem i missed the testimony of an important witness.
I'll do better next time.
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~kumii/batman.swf
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chipmunk stew
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| TimmyG wrote: |
the public have been led to believe that osama is behind the 9/11 attacks. yet the fbi blatently admits there is no hard evidence to back up this claim.
you are telling us we are nut jobs for not believing osama bin laden is responsible for the attacks of 9/11?! |
The 19 hijackers had clear links to al-Qaeda. There's even a money trail. The US treated the attacks as an act of war perpetrated by al-Qaeda. As the leader of al-Qaeda, OBL was considered a primary target.
There's no evidence of direct involvement by OBL. But he clearly was at least aware of the plan and condoned it.
The attack would not have happened without al-Qaeda, and al-Qaeda would not have existed without Bin Laden. He's responsible. |
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chipmunk stew
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GEFBASS
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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DeFecToR.................
Brilliant that`s the best laugh I`ve had for ages ( and yes I do get out ).
chipmunk stew stated...
"The 19 hijackers had clear links to al-Qaeda. There's even a money trail. The US treated the attacks as an act of war perpetrated by al-Qaeda. As the leader of al-Qaeda, OBL was considered a primary target. "
My questions to you are,
1, have YOU followed the money trail ( where money came from.. ) ?
( And no I don`t believe the planes were hijacked in any way ). IMO.
2, If OBL was considered sooo primary, WHY did GWB illude to the fact that they were not that interested in finding OBL ?
( will try to find the speech he said this at, to quote him properly ).
Geoff.
P.S.
To be honest I do respect skepticism, (is that right I haven`t got a dictionary to hand, anyway ), but I have to ask at what point do total skeptics change their views ?
And yes you could argue that total CT people are the same extreme.
My guess, to the above points is, Never.
I`m about 80/20 myself.
Only by doing a neutral research of all sides do you then come to any sort of conclusion.
Here`s something I wrote earlier.
Who gains....
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=2420&highlight=
1 plane 1 missile...
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=2272&highlight=
ISN`T THIS REASON WHY THERE SHOULD BE AN INDEPENDANT INQUIRY ?
So ALL the evidence can be viewed.
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Dstevo
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But he clearly was at least aware of the plan and condoned it. |
Erm, no he wasn't and didn't.
http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html
| Quote: | | I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. |
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TimmyG
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | But he clearly was at least aware of the plan and condoned it.
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where's the evidence?
why did the us gov see the need to produce a fake video, and broadcast it with the implication that it is a video of obl admitting to organising the attacks?
the alleged hijackers may well have links to alkaeda. its strange how they weren't on the passenger lists, aparrently hijacked the planes with box cutters, and whilst they were planning their attacks the able danger unit (who were watching them) delibrately kept quiet about it. why the need to plant passports and such if its a simple act of terrorism?
if the us were really interested in catching osama they wouldn't have told john o'neil to stop investigating him shortly before he was killed. Bush wouldn't be saying things like 'ya know . i don't where he is and i don't really care. i don't spend that much time thinking about it'.
They aren't interested in pulling this terrorist network apart. they are interested in invading countries to help expand their empire.
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chipmunk stew
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TimmyG
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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i watched about half of the 1st video. i'll watch more later but i have to get back to work.
i don't think anyone is disputing that obl and alkaeda were glad 9/11 happened. ofcourse they wanted it to happen.
point is they couldn't. not on their own. and even if the alleged hijackers were on the planes, there is much evidence to suggest they were helped by people on the inside.
i'm still not convinced that the guy in the famous confession tape is obl. his nose is different. the ring thing loose change got wrong. isn't important
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chipmunk stew
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TimmyG wrote: | i watched about half of the 1st video. i'll watch more later but i have to get back to work.
i don't think anyone is disputing that obl and alkaeda were glad 9/11 happened. ofcourse they wanted it to happen.
point is they couldn't. not on their own. and even if the alleged hijackers were on the planes, there is much evidence to suggest they were helped by people on the inside.
i'm still not convinced that the guy in the famous confession tape is obl. his nose is different. the ring thing loose change got wrong. isn't important |
Regarding the "fake Osama" thing:
The infamous "fat Osama" image that is floating around the internet is the single worst still plucked from that video. If you watch the original video, you'll see that the aspect ratio is distorted (it's squashed to make room for the subtitles), that this distortion combined with lighting effects makes his nose look different in that still, and that throughout most of the rest of the video the man in the video is clearly Bin Laden.
In fact, there was a thread on the Loose Change forum started on April 1, in which someone posted two images of OBL, the "fat Osama" picture and another very different-looking picture, and challenged people to pick out the "real" Osama. Unanimously, people picked the other picture and claimed the "fat Osama" was a fake.
Turns out, they were both stills from the same video...April Fool's! |
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chipmunk stew
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| TimmyG wrote: | | point is they couldn't. not on their own. and even if the alleged hijackers were on the planes, there is much evidence to suggest they were helped by people on the inside. |
I believe the evidence is overwhelming that the hijackings occurred essentially the way the official version tells it.
I believe the evidence suggests a LIHBA (let it happen by accident) version of events pre-9/11. But the public evidence in this area is hazier, and I believe it's worthy of further investigation. |
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Jason
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| chipmunk stew wrote: | | TimmyG wrote: | | point is they couldn't. not on their own. and even if the alleged hijackers were on the planes, there is much evidence to suggest they were helped by people on the inside. |
I believe the evidence is overwhelming that the hijackings occurred essentially the way the official version tells it.
I believe the evidence suggests a LIHBA (let it happen by accident) version of events pre-9/11. But the public evidence in this area is hazier, and I believe it's worthy of further investigation. |
The evidence is overwhelming eh? not from where I'm sitting.
A few grainy photographs and the words of the powers that be that they were hi-jacked doesn't seem like overwhelming evidence to me.
There is tons of evidence to the contrary and for the official version to be found to be untrue only 1 of those pieces of evidence needs to be accurate. I did think about pissing off but decided to stay..
Try again
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| chipmunk stew wrote: |
The 19 hijackers had clear links to al-Qaeda. There's even a money trail. |
No, there is not money trail. Jesus, even Noam igetmyfundingfromthe NSA Chomsky admitted that.
| chipmunk stew wrote: |
Regarding the "fake Osama" thing:
The infamous "fat Osama" image that is floating around the internet is the single worst still plucked from that video. If you watch the original video, you'll see that the aspect ratio is distorted (it's squashed to make room for the subtitles), that this distortion combined with lighting effects makes his nose look different in that still, and that throughout most of the rest of the video the man in the video is clearly Bin Laden.
In fact, there was a thread on the Loose Change forum started on April 1, in which someone posted two images of OBL, the "fat Osama" picture and another very different-looking picture, and challenged people to pick out the "real" Osama. Unanimously, people picked the other picture and claimed the "fat Osama" was a fake.
Turns out, they were both stills from the same video...April Fool's! |
Then why have there been a boat load of military and Middle-eastern analysts who have come out and said its definately a fake? And if it is real, why havent the FBI used it as evidence against him?
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chipmunk stew
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| DeFecToR wrote: | | chipmunk stew wrote: |
The 19 hijackers had clear links to al-Qaeda. There's even a money trail. |
No, there is not money trail. Jesus, even Noam igetmyfundingfromthe NSA Chomsky admitted that.
| chipmunk stew wrote: |
Regarding the "fake Osama" thing:
The infamous "fat Osama" image that is floating around the internet is the single worst still plucked from that video. If you watch the original video, you'll see that the aspect ratio is distorted (it's squashed to make room for the subtitles), that this distortion combined with lighting effects makes his nose look different in that still, and that throughout most of the rest of the video the man in the video is clearly Bin Laden.
In fact, there was a thread on the Loose Change forum started on April 1, in which someone posted two images of OBL, the "fat Osama" picture and another very different-looking picture, and challenged people to pick out the "real" Osama. Unanimously, people picked the other picture and claimed the "fat Osama" was a fake.
Turns out, they were both stills from the same video...April Fool's! |
Then why have there been a boat load of military and Middle-eastern analysts who have come out and said its definately a fake? And if it is real, why havent the FBI used it as evidence against him? |
Source? Names? |
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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OKAY OKAY jesus christ. I'm already digging out stuff for something else. Give me a while and i'll get them.
Actually, whats the point? Isnt it moot anyway? You're on your fence, i'm on mine?
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TimmyG
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I have watched the unedited confession vid pretty much all the way thru. and i'm still not quite convinced its him. the way he walks in the room (quite spritely) when he's meant to be quite weak aswell as his face somehow doesn't match other videos of him. i will look into it further and take some screen grabs.
| Quote: | | And if it is real, why havent the FBI used it as evidence against him? |
good point. if the video has been confirmed 100% real. why isn't this hard evidence?
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