Pentagon Plane Video - l think I can see something....

[kookomula]

Have a look at:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article139203.html

Scroll down to second 'Youtube' video. I think I can see a plane but it doesn't look like a 757, please have a look, it looks fairly clear but then again maybe I've just spent too long looking at this screen.

[IronSnot]

It's really difficult to see anything in those videos. If you can see a plane you'll be the first.

The Pentagon is my main line of inquiry. I've got my suspicions that it might have been a 737 (and I know somebody else who has reached the same conclusion from a different angle). It seems anyway that people did see a plane, but only Tim Timmerman positively identifies it as a 757, and at least three identified it as a 737, including two who should have known the difference.

I'm not certain but I've got my doubts 77 came down from 8000 ft. Atlantic maybe?

[iro]

on the second one it is definately a plane of somekind...certainly not a missile - it is the wrong shape and far too big

[Ian]

I used to concentrate on the Pentagon, but have now switched my focus to WTC7.

Some people think that the Pentagon issue is a 'honeypot' - an issue which the 9/11 Truth Movement is intentionally drawn towards, stakes it's credibility on, only to be blown out the water when the US government releases real or CGI-ed footage of a plane hitting the building.

Also, people I talked to about this always ask me, "well if it wasn't a plane, what happened to the passengers?" They then infer that you believe they're all living in some rural backwater of the US under false identities, or that they were gunned down in cold blood after the plane was landed somewhere, and these two possibilities are simply too 'X-Files', too much for them to believe (not that I believe them either)

Anyway, I think that concentrating on the implosion of the Twin Towers and WTC7 is the best option.

If you can actually get people to watch the videos of WTC7's collapse, they generally don't argue too hard against it being a controlled demolition. From there you can work backwards and explain the evidence to support the possibility that the Twin Towers were also demolished.

[blackcat]

[dodgy]

I also think the Pentagon "no-plane" thingy is a honeypot/tar baby. It's one of the first things our critics set upon and successfully debunk (apart from the pods/Cleveland Airport 'Mystery'/holograms and other hoaxes), and quite rightly too, as the hundreds of eyewitnesses & photographic evidence clearly point to a 757 flying into the building.

Eyewitnesses:
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/sgydk.html

Photographic/Physical Evidence:
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

All the claims of "too small a whole", "it was a missile", "it was a global hawk", etc, all stem from misrepresentations of the eyewitness & photographic evidence. Even Theirry Meyssan's (the wee scally wag who started it all off) second book's cover (Le Pentagate) shows Boeing parts next to the punch-out hole...

Just to go to Coincidence Theory for a minute:

Is it just by chance that Thierry Meyssan's first website went up just days before Donald Rumsfeld made his "slip-up" by saying that a missile hit the Pentagon? http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2001/t11182001_t1012pm.html

Is it also just by chance that someone from the Pentagon "leaks" the original five frames of the Pentagon crash to Thierry Meyssan (this was when Meyssan was still peddling his truck-bomb claims, a man who clearly hadn't done his research)? (You know anyone else who has received any "leaked" evidence?)

Is it just by chance that the Pentagon no-757 claims (& other hoaxes) are the only theories that make it into the MSM (only to be debunked and ridiculed, tarring any other theories with the same brush and keeping up the pretence that we are conspiracy nuts with crackpot theories, and we don't even bother to properly look at the evidence)?

Is it also just by chance that there isn't too much support for 9/11 Truth in Washington DC (unlike New York)? (The no-757 claims basically call the hundreds of eyewitnesses from there liars or "in on it")

And just sheer unlucky that 2004 seen a number of websites spring up supporting the no-757 claims, & the "In Plane Site" & "Pentagon Strike" disinfo documentaries, right when the truth movement was gaining momentum and ground, and right before the Presidential Elections, providing ammo for targeting & ridiculing the truth movement? When the other evidence of official complicity, if publicised, could have had a huge impact on public opinion & the outcome of the elections (although they were rigged...)?

Anyway - the no-757 claims appear to be a deliberate attempt to both mislead questioners of the official story, divide questioners of the official story, and serve as an object of ridicule/debunking. Not to mention distracting from the real evidence of complicity with regards to the Pentagon attack:

Hani Hanjour, flight-school dropout, a man who "hates our freedoms" & wants to kill as many Americans as possible, managed to do a 270 degree, 7000ft spiral dive, coming in at tree-top level, a feat that is highly improbable if not impossible of any human pilot (but feasible by auto-pilot), in possibly the world's most heavily defended airspace, completely unchallenged by the air defence (see Mineta's unincluded testimony to the 911 Commission for summinck interesting), to smash into the recently-renovated, largely unpopulated side of the Pentagon (rather than the side in the planes original incoming direction so completely avoiding Donald Rumsfeld), reducing casualties and reducing the damage to the building (plus as blackcat points out - killing a fair few of the accountants who may or may not have not known where that $2.3 trillion went).

Our efforts should definitely be in other areas that have evidence to back them up (prior knowledge, wargames, WTC7, means, motive, opportunity, etc, etc) & spreading the word of these, rather than gawping at fuzzy videos & photos and giving the opposition perfect ammunition for attack.

The sooner everyone ignores the hoaxes and sensationalist ungrounded claims, and realise that there are hoaxers, liars, & disinfo spreaders publishing "911 truth" websites & documentaries, the better.

Peace

[kookomula]

I'm looking for something I saw the other day, a post or video on another site about a guy retired from the military who used to analyse reconnaissance photgraphs, he said something about the hole, he was sure that a 757 would not have fitted through there.

The hole in the Pentagon is the first thing that got me interested in this and I've heard many people say the same.

This is not like hologram planes, to ask to see further video evidence is perfectly acceptable nobody in the right mind could condemn us for that. What reason is there for withholding it? If they had footage of a 757 hitting the building why would they not have released it on September 12th? I can't believe that the US government are that sensitive that they would worry about upsetting families.

[kookomula]

1. Why would they not release footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon if they had it?
2. Why would Larry Silverstein say 'I told them to pull it' on a major network broadcast?
3. Why would G W Bush say that he saw the footage of the 1st plane hit, footage that didn't exist on a TV that didn't exist?
4. Why would they make the obvious mistake regarding the Flight 93 cell phone conversation 'hi mum, this is 'name' 'surname'.


WHY? WHY? WHY?

[IronSnot]

[DeFecToR]

I'll believe that a plane hit the Pentagon when someone shows me a photograph of;
1. A corpse
2. The tail section
3. Seats.
4. Luggage.

As for the "Where did the passengers go if wasnt the plane" question; There is one obvios explanation. It was shot down elsewhere.

[DeFecToR]

Actually, forget those. Just show me the Citco station surveilance footage.

That'll do me just fine.

[dodgy]

[IronSnot]

I think it was a plane but not a 757. The idea that they're stringing along the 9/11 movement is a bit crazy. Why don't they just release them now and be done with us?

[dodgy]

[blackcat]

Exactly - 5 years is a bit long to string people along and why do it anyway. There is NO evidence of a 757 hitting the pentagon and plenty to suggest it was a smaller plane or a missile. There is nothing to worry about at all. The only video evidence the government has, will show them to be lying which is why they are keeping it under wraps. As for witnesses - there are as many that say it was a small plane as say it was a 747.

[dodgy]

[IronSnot]

Tim Timmerman is the only one who positively identified it as a 757.

[dodgy]

[spiv]

If, perhaps, one day the American Government did release video footage showing a 757 flying into the Pentagon (and there were several cameras trained pretty much in the direction of where the plane was flying in from), it must not be forgotten that the Americans knew, by that time, that the plane was approaching that they were under attack, so one must assume that every camera in the building was rolling.

So it still would not explain why the plane was swannying around Washington without being intercepted. Assuming that the building is the most heavily fortified in the world, why were no missiles or other anti-attack defences not despatched to intercept the 757?

I am also of the opinion that no 757 hit the Pentagon, I just cannot see how one being flown by Arab terrorists could even have reached close to the building, let alone hit it.

However, surely all these questions point the way to the main question (and demand) that there should be a thorough, independent and searching inquiry made into this attack to get at the truth (even if the real truth is that 19 Arab terrorists did manage to pull this off without any help from factions within the Government). Why did the American Government spend far less on the original very limited quick inquiry (the 9/11 commission) than they did investigating Clinton's cigar and Lewinsky caper??

[dodgy]

[spiv]

Well Dodgy, I must say that you raise an interesting point, although one I don't feel too awkward about. The American Government could so easily, assuming that it was a 757 and they do actually have a video showing it slamming into the Pentagon, just release it and have done with the 'conspiracy theory', at least as far as the Pentagon is concerned. My feeling is that they can't - they have no video as no 757 flew into the Pentagon. I've studied the video released a few weeks ago under the American Freedom of Information Act, heralded as putting the conspiracy theory to bed, and cannot see any 757. I can only see what could be the nose of a missile or fighter jet, albeit that is not very clear, and it is very fast.

But, if what the 'official' story says is the truth, I would have no worries. Indeed, would actually welcome it, as the thought that our western governments could conspire to kill our own people for their own political ends is far more difficult to come to terms with than being proved wrong over the Pentagon.

However, if this were the only question which points towards a conspiracy by factions of the American Government, then that would be fine, but it is not, there are many more, and the continued silence only serves to point more and more to the guilt of factions in the American Government (not to mention questions raised concerning 7/7, Blair and the British Government, but that is for another thread!!!).

[blackcat]

[Justin]

Dodgy, I posted this back in March - for those who believe that a 757 flew into the Pentagon, ask any professional pilot who flies 757s and my guess is that they are not convinced by the official story. Two hefty pilots, one a Vietnam war hero, quietly give up their seats to some chaps with 'boxcutters' - oh come on!!!

Have a look at these sites:

[dodgy]

[DeFecToR]

[dodgy]

[IronSnot]

The idea of a booby or honey trap for 9/11 movement is rubbish. Only a real conspiracy nut could dream that one up.

It's plainly obvious that coming up to the 5th anniversary, that they are hiding something.

[blackcat]

[IronSnot]

Accountants wern't the only ones killed at the Pentagon, there were quite a few from Navy intelligence as well.

[blackcat]