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John White
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
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Location: Here to help!
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 Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Jay Ref
We reply to you principly becuase its wonderful practise and improves our communication skills. As I've often said, critics are very useful, especially in a pen
or am I messing with your head?
Whichever way it goes, wether you are useful training or your here to bring sanity into our noodled noggins, it doesnt make that much difference, does it?
However, I did want to come back to this from above:
| Jay ref wrote: | | marky54 wrote: | It was a clear and obvious psy-op. Bush's ratings went through the roof, the already-stationed American troops on the Afghan border had the justification and support to invade the country. A frenzy of blind ultra-patriotism infected the US.
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This is the opinion of a psychotic and paranoid nutcase. It has no basis in reality and as such has no evidence supporting it.
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the "clearly a psy-op" part is supposition: it certainly cant be proved or disproved on a web forum, granted
However:
| Quote: | Bush's ratings went through the roof, the already-stationed American troops on the Afghan border had the justification and support to invade the country. A frenzy of blind ultra-patriotism infected the US.
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Are you suggesting this interpretation of post 911 America is paranoid and psychotic, or just the idea that a state might engage in an operation to deal a psychological blow?
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Last edited by John White on Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jay Ref
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| marky 54 wrote: | | Jay Ref wrote: | | marky 54 wrote: | | jay ref i find you very offensive and boring. your points hold no substance, they just waffle on and on just to try and prove people wrong by using swear words and circumstanial evidence, your points have nothing to hold them up apart from the fact that its what you beileve or have been told, you ask for proof numerous times and yet when given you dont reply or just move to the no-planes section and start of arguements there, even though most of this forum dosnt beileve in no-planes theory. go and research steel,fire, or something to do with physics that hasnt been mocked up by popular mechianc's or have anything to do with 9/11. then at least you will understand the strangness in how the buildings fell on 9/11 even if you still support the offical story. |
...and yet you take the time to reply to me? Why is that?
-z |
because you need to resarch certain things before you can make such assumptions like in the post above, where you say there is no evidence for explosions, or anything for that matter. |
Look dimwit I never said "there is no evidence of explosions" I said there is no evidence of an explosion precipitating the collapses. Also there is no evidence of any explosives. See, explosives are not the same things as explosions. Explosives aren't the only things that explode.
| Quote: |
your either in denail or just plain dumb if you carnt even see the point of this forum even if you dont believe there was a conspiracy. |
The point of this forum is to inculcate new people into your great cult of stupidity. I don't like cultists...their stupidity often becomes dangerous to them and others.
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most people i speak to say that they can see why people doubt it. and the reason why most brits and americans dont? because the media wont show the stuff in question. i wonder why? could it be they know people are not thick enough to believe the story once confronted with the strange things that day? |
What strange things are you speaking of? Do these strange things come with hard evidence? If not then you will not convince anyone outside those paranoids who are predisposed to eating up your anti-government crappola.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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blackcat
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Joined: 07 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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DeFecToR
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Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Jay Lord, seriously. When was the last time you layed down with a girl, or man, or horse?
Honestly, you need to vent some emotions.
LOOK BOOBS - (. .)
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DeFecToR
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Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Oh BTW, guess what... 9/11 was an inside job!!
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"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
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blackcat
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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coconut
Minor Poster
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 72
Location: Graham, NC
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: |
Please cite proof of this wild-assed conjecture. 1 example demo of even half the size of WTC7 would do. Please show where 5 techs have demo'd such a building. What? You can't? That's because it's never been done. Now your claim becomes extraordinary. Extraordinary claims are always suspect and require extraordinary evidence...but you don't have any at all!
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If several engineers were going in and out of the WTC complex for several weeks they could have rigged the buildings with explosives. It only depends on how many they could carry at once.
| Jay Ref wrote: |
No they cannot. The only remotely piloted airplanes are those which have been converted to drones.
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A quick software flash could ready a Boeing plane for remote control. The mechanism is already there (autopilot/radio link). How long would this take? I'm a software engineer, and judging by the time taken to flash large firmware packets, I'd give it five minutes.
| Jay Ref wrote: |
This is a moronic assertion. Please offer evidence to support it. |
Evidence is not needed. If I knew where to plant explosives in a 110-floor building and I had a few people to help with full security clearance and no bomb-sniffing dogs, well... I bet you I could do it in a few weeks max.
| Jay Ref wrote: | Your sanity is similarly under suspicion.
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Smells like ad hominem to me.
| Jay Ref wrote: | | I'll go over the gold issue later...hint: it's just as assinine as the rest of your theories. |
Actually, I don't know very much about the gold, and frankly, I don't care.
| Jay Ref wrote: | | More hackneyed bs. |
Can't disprove it?
| Jay Ref wrote: |
Many CTists make that claim. Also as you seem to think there are credible experts who think WTC TT were CD'd please list the structural engineers who have come out in favor of CD theory.
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Why would I list the engineers when:
- I don't keep a list. I have come across them "in my travels", so to speak.
- You haven't listed any leading "CTists" that make such a claim.
However, to appease you... http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Fetzer/0608/20060824_Thu_Fetzer2.mp3
Professor Judy Wood, a member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, is a mechanical engineer.
Skip ahead to 10:00 or so.
| Jay Ref wrote: |
The put options are not evidence of anything. |
Why not? Several times above the daily average seems suspicious to me.
| Jay Ref wrote: | | As for the collapses themselves there are many photographs which document the slow bowing inwards of the impact floors of both towers. |
Can you show us where the floors are slowly bowing inwards?
| Jay Ref wrote: | | Thermite/thermate does not explode...it also does not slowly cause columns to bow inward. |
Wrong. Superthermite does explode.
| Jay Ref wrote: | Why are the patsies overwhelmingly Saudi? Wouldn't it be better to recruit Iraqi and Afghani patsies? Your above entry makes no sense. Of course the entire body of convoluted CT's never make any sense either.
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Yes, it would be better to recruit Afghani or Iraqi hijackers. Actually, a lot better.
But who says they were even recruited? Some of them are still alive and have expressed their anger at being associated with 9/11. And there's more than just that one BBC report.
Robert Mueller: "The identity of some of the hijackers is in doubt."
| Jay Ref wrote: | What does that matter? If your grandma dies and leaves you a million dollars did you not just benefit from her death? Tell me why then we should not lock your silly ass up for murder?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cui_bono
| Jay Ref wrote: |
This is the opinion of a psychotic and paranoid nutcase. It has no basis in reality and as such has no evidence supporting it.
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No evidence? What part has no evidence?
| Jay Ref wrote: | | Hey...I'm only asking questions....like your hero Dylan. |
Your implication that I even remotely like Dylan Avery is that of a retard. People should avoid Loose Change imo.
| Jay Ref wrote: |
More charges than needed? And leave no evidence? No detcord, no blasting caps? No witnesses? And most damning of all no visible evidence of charges going off...go on now...tell me of the squibs. Demo squibs explode forcefully and then weaken...the "squibs" of the WTC popped out and slowly got stronger as the collapsing floors approached. Explosives don't do that....air pressure forced out broken windows and equipment room vents do. |
Point one: almost everything in the towers was obliterated.
Point two: explosives do do that. The squibs didn't "get stronger", they stayed ahead of the "collapse wave" by several floors. I've witnessed many demolitions and there are squibs in them all. Look up some demolition videos.
| Jay Ref wrote: | | What charges? Do you have even one shred of unimaginary evidence that they exist? No. You don't. |
Ah, because you couldn't rebut that point, you turn to "what charges?" Well, you asked about the charges being dislodged, and charges on the other side of the core would not be dislodged. I doubt many of them would be dislodged anyway.
| Jay Ref wrote: |
Great so there should have been even more evidence in the rubble eh? Unburned thermite? |
Thermite is just iron oxide and aluminium dust. Steel contains iron, the planes were made of aluminium. The majority of the steel was carted off to be recycled, so what's your point?
| Jay Ref wrote: | | You mean the guy who has been terminated by his university? He found traces of sulfur on the steel. Sulphur is a byproduct of thermite. It's also a component in sheetrock...and an additive in jetfuel...etc...etc... To date Steven Jones still has no idea where the sulfur came from! Isn't it more likely that pulverized sheetrock imparted the sulfur? At least there is evidence that sheetrock was present!! |
The presence of sulphur in the steel merits further investigation into the actual source. There are several potential sources.
| Jay Ref wrote: | | Where's the evidence that thermite was present? |
- Molten metal seen flowing from WTC prior to collapse.
- Molten metal found in rubble.
- Strange white flame with white smoke seen. Pointed out in NIST report.
| Jay Ref wrote: |
Just asking questions here mate...
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I'm sure. 
| Jay Ref wrote: |
Are you mentally retarded? No? Then how can you reject the voluminous evidence against Atta et al...and cling with stubborn tenacity to the non-evidence provided by Steven Jones?? Why do you use two different standards for evaluating evidence?? |
What evidence against Atta? Can you refer me to it?
| Jay Ref wrote: | | This is elitist bs...and possibly racist bs. Arab people are quite competent human beings. They are not cavemen. The US government is not omnipotent. |
Don't be such a tool, the Arabs were the opposite of fundamentalist Muslims, and they were terrible pilots. I referred to the men specifically, not Arabs in general. F*cking hell.
| Quote: | ="Jay Ref"]
I see you are not above ridiculing the victims. You are a piece of *. The sounds recorded on the CVR are those of people slaming a drink cart into the cockpit door and screaming out their last words. You are not fit to kiss the ass of a single one of them. |
Actually, apologies, I was wrong with the voice recorder. However, they haven't been made public.
Now, how am I ridiculing the victims? Don't expect me to hold them in such high esteem just because they died. I've had people close to me die as well. If they f*cked up with something, I won't hold back.
Their plan was obviously fairly nonsense if they managed to crash the plane. There were allegedly only four hijackers, how is it so difficult to overpower four hijackers armed with only Stanley blades? |
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Ignatz
Moderate Poster
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| coconut wrote: |
If several engineers were going in and out of the WTC complex for several weeks they could have rigged the buildings with explosives. It only depends on how many they could carry at once.
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Now there's a thought.
Round numbers, let's call it 100 floors with 40 core columns per floor. 4000 "columns" that might need severing by CD. Suppose only 1 in 4 needs severing to achieve the CD, thats 1000 columns. But wait, there's substantial cross-bracing .. ah well .. just call it 1000 large girders to keep things simple. Is that fair?
Now, the core wasn't just some huge void with lots of girders in there. They formed the structure of stairways and lift shafts that ran inside the core. To get at the columns with demolition charges means you need to get around the girders, to put the charges either side. This would require removing cosmetic coverings and removing fireproofing. Much of this would need to be done in plain view of people. It would, basically, involve builders. Not just shady dudes shuffling around with packs of exploves in briefcases. Builders, with builders equipment.
Beginning to see any catches here?
And then we'd have the small matter of replacing the cosmetic wall coverings for that fateful day, so that nobody would notice anything amiss in the intervening weeks/months. Always assuming this was possible, of course. Substantial amounts of demolition explosive would play havoc with the clearance of a close-fitting wall panel. Well, that's my guess. |
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chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| coconut wrote: | | Jay Ref wrote: | | Where's the evidence that thermite was present? |
- Molten metal seen flowing from WTC prior to collapse. |
Molten something, anyway. Glass? Aluminum? Plastic? Steel? *shrug*
| Quote: | | - Molten metal found in rubble. |
How is this evidence of thermite? Was this thermite of the previously unheard-of slow-burning sort?
For metal (or anything) to stay molten for weeks at a time requires a continuous heat source. Were there black ops periodically feeding the rubble with more thermite?
| Quote: | - Strange white flame with white smoke seen. Pointed out in NIST report.
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This is the same NIST that's burying the truth, right?
There's nothing in the physical evidence that suggests thermite.
It would also be a retarded plan for demolishing a building. |
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chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| coconut wrote: | | Their plan was obviously fairly nonsense if they managed to crash the plane. There were allegedly only four hijackers, how is it so difficult to overpower four hijackers armed with only Stanley blades? |
Apparently, it's not terribly difficult (see flight 93).
Notice that the only mission that failed to reach its target was the one on which the passengers and crew had an inkling of what their intended fate was?
The other three flights hoped to see their loved ones again after a harrowing, but not fatal, hostage situation.
The hijackers (and whoever planned the missions) weren't stupid. They effectively used principles of social engineering, much more than muscle, to accomplish their missions. |
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mp3hound
New Poster
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| coconut wrote: |
If several engineers were going in and out of the WTC complex for several weeks they could have rigged the buildings with explosives. It only depends on how many they could carry at once.
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Really? How many engineers? How many weeks? How would they gain access? Where would they hide the tons of explosives required? What kind of explosives would take down the buildings in a manner even remotely similar to the manner in which millions of people saw it collapse?
| coconut wrote: |
A quick software flash could ready a Boeing plane for remote control. The mechanism is already there (autopilot/radio link). How long would this take? I'm a software engineer, and judging by the time taken to flash large firmware packets, I'd give it five minutes. |
Evidence, please.
| coconut wrote: | | Evidence is not needed. If I knew where to plant explosives in a 110-floor building and I had a few people to help with full security clearance and no bomb-sniffing dogs, well... I bet you I could do it in a few weeks max. |
Nonsense. Evidence is certainly needed. What you, an obvious non-expert, "bet" that "you" could do means absolutely nothing and it flies in the face of what actual demolitions experts say on the matter.
| coconut wrote: | Why would I list the engineers when:
- I don't keep a list. I have come across them "in my travels", so to speak.
...
Professor Judy Wood, a member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, is a mechanical engineer.
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If you expect to convince anyone with more than half a brain of your assertions, it would behoove you to have evidence and experts to back up your unfounded assertions. Otherwise, you look rather like just another intellectually lazy tinhatter spouting off as facts things that you have absolutely no knowledge of.
And, by the way, Judy Wood is no longer a member of Scholars for Truth and her area of expertise is dentistry. A far cry from structural engineering or anything relevant to the collapse of the towers, and she is also the originator of the Keebler Elves theory. Hardly a worthwhile or credible source.
| coconut wrote: |
Why not? Several times above the daily average seems suspicious to me. |
What seems suspicious to you is not proof of anything, but in any event, the source of the put options was investigated and ascertained. And, by the way, there were several occasions upon which the put options on those stocks were far higher compared to the daily average than they were on the occasion you are referring to. A little research goes a long way. Perhaps you should try it some time.
| coconut wrote: |
Can you show us where the floors are slowly bowing inwards? |
Have you really done so little research that at this late date, you still haven't seen this evidence?
Really?
After 5 years?
| coconut wrote: | | Wrong. Superthermite does explode. |
Oh yes, "superthermite". Which version of Jones' paper rewrite did that appear in? Version 36 or 37? I've lost count. Does it not strike you as odd that a paper written by an alleged expert is changed so often and the changes are not notated or identified in the revised version? Have you ever seen such strange behavior by a so-called expert in revising a paper in that manner repeatedly?
Just wait, soon it will "Superduperthermite". (Actually, he's already off of the "superthermite" bit, by the way - you should look it up).
Oh, and by the way, how does thermite or even "superthermite" sustain very high temperatures for weeks? And how does thermite or even "superthermite" cut through steel in perfectly straight lines?
Please explain.
| coconut wrote: | Yes, it would be better to recruit Afghani or Iraqi hijackers. Actually, a lot better. But who says they were even recruited? Some of them are still alive and have expressed their anger at being associated with 9/11. And there's more than just that one BBC report. Robert Mueller: "The identity of some of the hijackers is in doubt."
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Yes, in a report from shortly after the attacks in Sept. 2001. Of course some of the identities were in doubt, given that some of the hijackers used fake identification and given that some of them coincidentally had similar names to other people who were not connected to the crime. You're probably not the only "coconut" posting online. And chances are that your real name is shared by others as well.
Again, after 5 years, perhaps you should have done a little more research instead of relying upon a nearly 5 year old news clip.
| coconut wrote: | | People should avoid Loose Change imo. |
Agreed. It is unadulterated nonsense.
| coconut wrote: |
The squibs didn't "get stronger", they stayed ahead of the "collapse wave" by several floors. I've witnessed many demolitions and there are squibs in them all. Look up some demolition videos. |
There were no squibs.
| coconut wrote: | | Well, you asked about the charges being dislodged, and charges on the other side of the core would not be dislodged. I doubt many of them would be dislodged anyway. |
Of course they wouldn't be dislodged, because they did not exist. Therefore, there was nothing to dislodge.
| coconut wrote: | | Thermite is just iron oxide and aluminium dust. Steel contains iron, the planes were made of aluminium. The majority of the steel was carted off to be recycled, so what's your point? |
In case it isn't obvious, the presence of iron oxide and aluminum dust would not be any more indicative of thermite as it would be indicative of steel and aluminum, which were clearly present in abundance.
And as for the steel being recycled, need I remind you that it took 8 months to clear the site and that the debris, including the steel, was examined by a plethora of experts before it left Staten Island?
| coconut wrote: | | The presence of sulphur in the steel merits further investigation into the actual source. There are several potential sources. |
And yet Jones felt that it was sufficient to claim that it had to come from thermite. What a strange and unfounded conclusion for a so-called expert to make in the absence of any corroborating evidence. No wonder, he's in trouble with the university.
| coconut wrote: |
- Molten metal seen flowing from WTC prior to collapse.
- Molten metal found in rubble.
- Strange white flame with white smoke seen. Pointed out in NIST report. |
None of which is evidence of thermite.
| coconut wrote: | | and they were terrible pilots. |
Evidence, please.
| Quote: | ="coconut"] How am I ridiculing the victims?
...
Their plan was obviously fairly nonsense if they managed to crash the plane. There were allegedly only four hijackers, how is it so difficult to overpower four hijackers armed with only Stanley blades? |
How you are disparaging and mocking them is more than evident, and should be self-evident to you.
Disgusting. |
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marky 54
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| thats assuming they had boxcutters, anyone know where that piece of evidence came from and if its avaible to hear for our selves? i doubt it was heard over the air pilot controls they didnt even have time to put out a mayday. so i pressume a blackbox. o wait did they find any blackboxes? so it must of been a phone call then. anyone know? |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| The boxcutters is a theory. 19 Arabs conspired. It is a conspiracy theory. |
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chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | The boxcutters is a theory. 19 Arabs conspired. It is a conspiracy theory. |
"Conspiracy theorist" in the vernacular is short for "paranoid conspiracy theorist". I'll be sure to use this more accurate term in the future, just so there's no confusion. |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "Conspiracy theorist" in the vernacular is short for "paranoid conspiracy theorist". I'll be sure to use this more accurate term in the future, just so there's no confusion. |
Spreading paranoia that the Muslim world is attacking the west because it "hates our freedoms" and waging wars in which tens of thousands have died is the most disgusting form of behaviour imaginable. I feel absolutely no fear of Islam and think the wars were unnecessary and based on lies. You however support those who are so paranoid they go to war and kill and imprison and torture people perceived as enemies when they are not. Absolutely perfect definition of paranoia taken to its extreme.
I will remember to use the more accurate term in the future and describe you as murderous paranoid conspiracy theorists. I use the word murderous so there's no confusion. |
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chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | You however support those who are so paranoid they go to war and kill and imprison and torture people perceived as enemies when they are not. |
Please show me where I've shown any such support.
You and Bush are guilty of the same thing. You both try to connect 9/11 with the war in Iraq. |
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Jay Ref
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | "Conspiracy theorist" in the vernacular is short for "paranoid conspiracy theorist". I'll be sure to use this more accurate term in the future, just so there's no confusion. |
Spreading paranoia that the Muslim world is attacking the west because it "hates our freedoms" and waging wars in which tens of thousands have died is the most disgusting form of behaviour imaginable. I feel absolutely no fear of Islam and think the wars were unnecessary and based on lies. You however support those who are so paranoid they go to war and kill and imprison and torture people perceived as enemies when they are not. Absolutely perfect definition of paranoia taken to its extreme.
I will remember to use the more accurate term in the future and describe you as murderous paranoid conspiracy theorists. I use the word murderous so there's no confusion. |
You obviously have not spared a moment from your busy life of "researching" to watch the latest A-Q video where Azzam invites us all to Islam or else death and suffering. Or the one which shows UBL hanging out with his pal Mohammed Atta...or perhaps you missed the late great Zarqawi's words where he actually used the words: "we hate your freedoms".
Ignoring the barbaric jihadist threat will not make it go away any more than imagined evidence of government plots will make them true. Your skewed perception is a problem...but only for you.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: | You obviously have not spared a moment from your busy life of "researching" to watch the latest A-Q video where Azzam invites us all to Islam or else death and suffering. Or the one which shows UBL hanging out with his pal Mohammed Atta...or perhaps you missed the late great Zarqawi's words where he actually used the words: "we hate your freedoms".
Ignoring the barbaric jihadist threat will not make it go away any more than imagined evidence of government plots will make them true. Your skewed perception is a problem...but only for you.
-z |
PCTs are too preoccupied with cowering from an omnipotent phantom who controls every historical event, from the most minor hiccup to the most major catastrophe, to recognize real-world threats. It doesn't matter how many times someone gets bombed or how many times a zealous militant Islamist group claims responsibility. To blackcat, this will never be a threat. To blackcat, the real threat is the phantom pulling the strings. |
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marky 54
Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| baaa , baaaa baaaa. bleet bleet. baaaa ... baaaa baa ba baaa. baaaa, baaa baa. bleet bleet. BAAAAAA! baaa baaaa ba bleet. baaa |
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| coconut wrote: |
A quick software flash could ready a Boeing plane for remote control. The mechanism is already there (autopilot/radio link). How long would this take? I'm a software engineer, and judging by the time taken to flash large firmware packets, I'd give it five minutes.
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You've got to be kidding.
Firmware stores specifications, not complex algorithms that would be necessary for interactive remote control. Sure, it's possible you could REPLACE the specs with algorithms -- but the plane still needs the specs in order to fly. What your describing would be like copying the OS files from a Mac onto a PC and expecting it to boot right up.
Also, autopilot is not a robot that performs the functions of a human pilot. It is a mechanism to keep a plane on course without requiring the pilot to make corrections. It's possible, perhaps, that it could be continually reset to actually navigate the plane, but that's clearly not what happened here. The manuevers made by flight 11 (for instance) were more consistent with a poorly trained pilot than of sophisticated computer control. Why would an autopilot system need to follow the Hudson river to find New York?
(There are cruise missile navigation systems that do this, or rather did this before GPS became more prevalent, but it would require much more than a firmware flash to get an airliner to do this.) |
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blackcat
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | You obviously have not spared a moment from your busy life of "researching" to watch the latest A-Q video where Azzam invites us all to Islam or else death and suffering. Or the one which shows UBL hanging out with his pal Mohammed Atta...or perhaps you missed the late great Zarqawi's words where he actually used the words: "we hate your freedoms".
Ignoring the barbaric jihadist threat will not make it go away any more than imagined evidence of government plots will make them true. Your skewed perception is a problem...but only for you. |
There's that paranoia again. UBL hangs about with the Bush clan more than anyone! As for one or two idiots who spout against the west - who cares? You have to be really paranoid to connect the rantings of a few delusional Muslims with a movement that threatens our way of life. Especially when they are innocent and it is the murderers you support within the US government. It is the Muslims who should fear the USA - they are the ones who have been invaded and slaughtered - all on a pack of lies. Trumped up videos don't get a spare moment from me anyway. |
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | You obviously have not spared a moment from your busy life of "researching" to watch the latest A-Q video where Azzam invites us all to Islam or else death and suffering. Or the one which shows UBL hanging out with his pal Mohammed Atta...or perhaps you missed the late great Zarqawi's words where he actually used the words: "we hate your freedoms".
Ignoring the barbaric jihadist threat will not make it go away any more than imagined evidence of government plots will make them true. Your skewed perception is a problem...but only for you. |
There's that paranoia again. UBL hangs about with the Bush clan more than anyone! |
Evidence? Nope...just your arse farting out nonsense again...
| Quote: |
As for one or two idiots who spout against the west - who cares? You have to be really paranoid to connect the rantings of a few delusional Muslims with a movement that threatens our way of life. |
One wonders what planet you inhabit. Surely you must have noticed the entire Muslim world rising up in anger? Torching churches and murdering nuns in response to the Pope's condemnation of jihadi violence? Well in case the irony of Muslims being called violent...and then burning and murdering in protest of being called violent there's this from Reuters:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=20 06-09-18T100352Z_01_L18796129_RTRUKOC_0_US-POPE-ISLAM-QAEDA.xml&WTmodL oc=NewsHome-C1-topNews-1
...a lowlight of which is:
| Quote: | | "You will only see our swords until you go back to God's true faith Islam," |
It's hardly the ranting of a few muslims...
| Quote: |
Especially when they are innocent and it is the murderers you support within the US government. It is the Muslims who should fear the USA - they are the ones who have been invaded and slaughtered - all on a pack of lies. Trumped up videos don't get a spare moment from me anyway. |
Complete and utter hogswallop. You are Lord Haw Haw without the title.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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DeFecToR
Moderate Poster
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Jay Lord, you pathetic liar, go find a hammer and * yourself with it.
You could consider it the relationship you've been looking for.
_________________
"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
-William James |
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blackcat
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| The Islamic world has been exploited, overrun and its populations slaughtered by western powers for centuries. Pakistan, India and Bangladesh invaded by the British. The Arab world had its maps drawn by the British invaders who set up puppet governments and caused mayhem over generations. Iraq was bombed with chemical weapons approved of by Churchill in the 1920s. Iran had its oil "bought" by western companies at a fraction of its real value and precious little wealth filtered to the people of Iran. Egypt was exploited and invaded. The French occupied the Arab lands of North Africa and were brutal in repressing uprisings. The Italians invaded what is now Libya. The Palestinians were and still are being slaughtered with the full backing of the USA and UK while Israel continues its illegal expansion at their expense. The history of western abuse of Muslims which continues to this day is astonishing. Yet some idiots say we in the west must fear Islam because some Muslims issue threats. There is little evidence of Muslim countries doing a fraction of one percent of the damage to us that we have done to them. The USA and others are now in Iraq and Afghanistan continuing this abuse and I am called a traitor because I find it objectionable. It is filth like JayRef who are the traitors for supporting those who murdered thousands in New York on 9/11 and for continuing the myth that it was Arabs who did it. I do not fear Arabs. I do not fear Muslims. The threat does not come from them. Increasingly people are becoming aware of who was really responsible for 9/11 and who we should really be attacking. This is what JayRef and his kind know and his increasing desperation shows. |
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| DeFecToR wrote: | Hey Jay Lord, you pathetic liar, go find a hammer and * yourself with it.
You could consider it the relationship you've been looking for. |
Oooh words that hurt!! Don't be a hater.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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DeFecToR
Moderate Poster
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: | | DeFecToR wrote: | Hey Jay Lord, you pathetic liar, go find a hammer and * yourself with it.
You could consider it the relationship you've been looking for. |
Oooh words that hurt!! Don't be a hater.
-z |
Lol. 
You're good craic Jay Ref. I'd love to go drinking with you.
* it. Its all noise anyway. You dont care what i think and i dont care what you think.
.....nice. 
_________________
"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
-William James |
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | The Islamic world has been exploited, overrun and its populations slaughtered by western powers for centuries.
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And before that, Western powers were overrun by the Islamic world.
| Quote: | Pakistan, India and Bangladesh invaded by the British. The Arab world had its maps drawn by the British invaders who set up puppet governments and caused mayhem over generations.
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Yes, but they tried to keep the Jews out of Palestine. Doesn't that earn them any brownie points?
| Quote: | The history of western abuse of Muslims which continues to this day is astonishing. Yet some idiots say we in the west must fear Islam because some Muslims issue threats.
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Yes, idiots tend to say stupid things. I know an idiot who claimed that flight 93 never crashed in Pennsylvania.
| Quote: | There is little evidence of Muslim countries doing a fraction of one percent of the damage to us that we have done to them. The USA and others are now in Iraq and Afghanistan continuing this abuse and I am called a traitor because I find it objectionable.
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I doubt that's why they call you a traitor.
| Quote: | It is filth like JayRef who are the traitors for supporting those who murdered thousands in New York on 9/11 and for continuing the myth that it was Arabs who did it.
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So, you know who did it? Obviously, you do, since you think JayRef supports them. Why don't you enlighten us and provide a brief description of what you think happened on 9/11, including the whos, the wheres, the hows, etc. If you can do that without sounding totally loopy, then I'll give your claims some thought. But, of course, you can't.
| Quote: | | I do not fear Arabs. I do not fear Muslims. The threat does not come from them. |
Not from all of them, certainly. Just from a small minority.
| Quote: | | Increasingly people are becoming aware of who was really responsible for 9/11 and who we should really be attacking. This is what JayRef and his kind know and his increasing desperation shows. |
Once more, if you could tell me specifically who is responsible and specifically how they did it, I'd be delighted. However, I predict you'll make one of the following responses:
1. You'll ignore my request.
2. You'll say "I already did that".
3. You'll post a bunch of links to whack-a-mole CT sites.
4. You'll go off an an irrelevant tangent.
5. You'll say "I'm just asking questions," ignoring the fact that you have claimed that you know who is responsible.
Which will it be? Anyone want to take bets? |
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blackcat
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I do not know who specifically did it so your presumption was incorrect. It is however clearly elements of the US government and the cover-up is blatant. The fact such a blatant pack of lies is supported by JayRef et al indicates they support those elements.
BTW - who tried to keep the Jews out of Palestine? Are you referring to the British attempt to stop Palestine being wiped off the map - something which actually happened so that the racist state of Israel could be established by way of terrorism. The same terrorists then becoming senior figures in the Israel government. |
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: |
It is filth like JayRef who are the traitors for supporting those who murdered thousands in New York on 9/11 and for continuing the myth that it was Arabs who did it.
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Well there is evidence for the "Arabs done it" theory. Where is your evidence that I am a traitor? Isn't it you that is calling for the duly elected governments of the US and UK to be overthrown? Aren't you by definition a traitor and seditionist? They used to hang people like you ta know. You're lucky we live under such liberal and indulgently free governments. If you tried doing something like this in Iran your body would already have been picked clean by vultures as it rotted on it's rope. But after all that's not so bad right? It is after all the exact kind of "justice" you'd mete out to us "shills" if only you could.
The Brave New World of teh Troof movement....barbaric stupidity,bigotry and injustice dressed in a clean white toga. No one is fooled.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | I do not know who specifically did it so your presumption was incorrect. It is however clearly elements of the US government and the cover-up is blatant. The fact such a blatant pack of lies is supported by JayRef et al indicates they support those elements.
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So it was number 4, irrelevant tangent. Excellent choice. |
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