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DeFecToR
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 Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Johnny Pixels wrote: |
Yes. I made an assumption and I was wrong. Please accept my apologies. |
Apology certainly accepted. I too apologise for my overly heated language earlier in this topic. I need to keep that in check i know. What i said was wrong and i too apologise.
Now as for the flouride thing. Please, dont insult my intelligence. I am well aware that flouride occurs naturally in drinking water. The levels at which our drinking water is flouridated vastly exceed those that occur naturally.
Please, read some of the links i sent you. There have been MANY independant scientific experimants on the effects of excessive flouridation on the human body. A few decades worth. And i stress independant. For you to automatically asume that the ill effects of flouride on the human body do not exist and are actually some big conspiracy theory that we all dwell on is really doing yourself an injustice.
Please, read some of the material i sent.
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Johnny Pixels
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| DeFecToR wrote: | | Johnny Pixels wrote: |
Yes. I made an assumption and I was wrong. Please accept my apologies. |
Apology certainly accepted. I too apologise for my overly heated language earlier in this topic. I need to keep that in check i know. What i said was wrong and i too apologise.
Now as for the flouride thing. Please, dont insult my intelligence. I am well aware that flouride occurs naturally in drinking water. The levels at which our drinking water is flouridated vastly exceed those that occur naturally.
Please, read some of the links i sent you. There have been MANY independant scientific experimants on the effects of excessive flouridation on the human body. A few decades worth. And i stress independant. For you to automatically asume that the ill effects of flouride on the human body do not exist and are actually some big conspiracy theory that we all dwell on is really doing yourself an injustice.
Please, read some of the material i sent. |
Apology accepted.
On the subject of flouridation though, from this link:
http://www.livingnutrition.com/articles/flouride.html
Comes this quote:
| Quote: | In the production of aluminum, steel, cement, glass, fertilizer, fuels, refrigerants, rat poison, pesticides, uranium and many other items, fluoride wastes are unfortunately released to the air, water, and soil....constantly increasing our exposure to this bio-accumulative substance which is more toxic than lead. Eventually, as a result of the alarming levels of fluoride wastes from mining and manufacturing, laws were made to regulate its disposal and curb releases to the environment. This presented a costly problem to industry....which was solved with typical U. S. ingenuity
In essence, the solution was to dissolve and disperse fluoride into our public water supplies, thereby saving billions of dollars in disposal costs, and actually turning this toxic waste into a marketable product using the ploy that it would improve dental health.
The financial motivation for this action was intense, and a massive and extended propaganda and incentives campaign was initiated. This successful campaign targeted public health, medical, and other academic institutions with millions of dollars in research grants and subsidies. As a result, we have been drinking a highly diluted industrial toxic waste product, called fluoridated water, in increasing amounts (now by two thirds of the total US population), for over 50 years. The ultimate price, however, is still unknown. |
This is just a complete lie. Flouridation was found to have an effect on teeth when it was noticed that some people around the country experienced different levels of mottling on their teeth. This was from natural levels of flouride. Investigations were carried out as to the reasons for this mottling, and also why the mottling correlated with decreased levels of tooth decay.
To suggest that it is all to do with saving money is frankly bulls**t.
The only health risk I can find at the moment is the suggested increase in risk of bone cancer in boys, but it's very hard to find an objective answer. |
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps you need to read this lot again. It is all independantly researched;
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Scientific Facts on the
Biological Effects of Fluorides
1. Fluoride exposure disrupts the synthesis of collagen and leads to the breakdown of collagen in bone, tendon, muscle, skin, cartilage, lungs, kidney and trachea.
A.K. Susheela and Mohan Jha, " Effects of Fluoride on Cortical and Cancellous Bone Composition," IRCS Medical Sciences: Library Compendium, Vol. 9, No.11, pp. 1021-1022 (1981); Y. D. Sharma, " Effect of Sodium Fluoride on Collagen Cross-Link Precursors," Toxicological Letters, Vol. 10, pp. 97-100 (1982); A. K. Susheela and D. Mukerjee, " Fluoride poisoning and the Effect of Collagen Biosynthesis of Osseous and Nonosseous Tissue," Toxicological European Research, Vol. 3, No.2, pp. 99-104 (1981); Y.D. Sharma, " Variations in the Metabolism and Maturation of Collagen after Fluoride Ingestion," Biochemica et Biophysica Acta, Vol. 715, pp. 137-141 (1982); Marian Drozdz et al., " Studies on the Influence of Fluoride Compounds upon Connective Tissue Metabolism in Growing Rats" and "Effect of Sodium Fluoride With and Without Simultaneous Exposure to Hydrogen Fluoride on Collagen Metabolism," Journal of Toxicological Medicine, Vol. 4, pp. 151-157 (1984).
2. Fluoride stimulates granule formation and oxygen consumption in white blood cells, but inhibits these processes when the white blood cell is challenged by a foreign agent in the blood.
Robert A. Clark, " Neutrophil Iodintion Reaction Induced by Fluoride: Implications for Degranulation and Metabolic Activation," Blood, Vol. 57, pp. 913-921 (1981).
3. Fluoride depletes the energy reserves and the ability of white blood cells to properly destroy foreign agents by the process of phagocytosis. As little as 0.2 ppm fluoride stimulates superoxide production in resting white blood cells, virtually abolishing phagocytosis. Even micro-molar amounts of fluoride, below 1 ppm, may seriously depress the ability of white blood cells to destroy pathogenic agents.
John Curnette, et al, " Fluoride-mediated Activation of the Respiratory Burst in Human Neutrophils," Journal of Clinical Investigation, Vol. 63, pp. 637-647 (1979); W. L. Gabler and P. A. Leong, ., " Fluoride Inhibition of Polymorphonumclear Leukocytes," Journal of Dental Research, Vol. 48, No. 9, pp. 1933-1939 (1979); W. L. Gabler, et al., " Effect of Fluoride on the Kinetics of Superoxide Generation by Fluoride," Journal of Dental Research, Vol. 64, p. 281 (1985); A. S. Kozlyuk, et al., " Immune Status of Children in Chemically Contaminated Environments," Zdravookhranenie, Issue 3, pp. 6-9 (1987)
4. Fluoride confuses the immune system and causes it to attack the body's own tissues, and increases the tumor growth rate in cancer prone individuals.
Alfred Taylor and Nell C. Taylor, " Effect of Sodium Fluoride on Tumor Growth," Proceedings of the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine, Vol. 119, p. 252 (1965); Shiela Gibson, " Effects of Fluoride on Immune System Function," Complementary Medical Research, Vol. 6, pp. 111-113 (1992); Peter Wilkinson, " Inhibition of the Immune System With Low Levels of Fluorides," Testimony before the Scottish High Court in Edinburgh in the Case of McColl vs. Strathclyde Regional Council, pp. 17723-18150, 19328-19492, and Exhibit 636, (1982); D. W. Allman and M. Benac, " Effect of Inorganic Fluoride Salts on Urine and Cyclic AMP Concentration in Vivo," Journal of Dental Research, Vol. 55 (Supplement B), p. 523 (1976); S. Jaouni and D. W. Allman, " Effect of Sodium Fluoride and Aluminum on Adenylate Cyclase and Phosphodiesterase Activity," Journal of Dental Research, Vol. 64, p. 201 (1985)
5. Fluoride inhibits antibody formation in the blood.
S. K. Jain and A. K. Susheela, " Effect of Sodium Fluoride on Antibody Formation in Rabbits," Environmental Research, Vol. 44, pp. 117-125 (1987)
6. Fluoride depresses thyroid activity.
Viktor Gorlitzer Von Mundy, " Influence of Fluorine and Iodine on the Metabolism, Particularly on the Thyroid Gland," Muenchener Medicische Wochenschrift, Vol. 105, pp. 182-186 (1963); A. Benagiano, "The Effect of Sodium Fluoride on Thyroid Enzymes and Basal Metabolism in the Rat," Annali Di Stomatologia, Vol. 14, pp. 601-619 (1965); Donald Hillman, et al., " Hypothyroidism and Anemia Related to Fluoride in Dairy Cattle," Journal of Dairy Science, Vol. 62, No.3, pp. .416-423 (1979); V. Stole and J. Podoba, " Effect of Fluoride on the Biogenesis of Thyroid Hormones," Nature, Vol. 188, No. 4753, pp. 855-856 (1960); Pierre Galleti and Gustave Joyet, " Effect of Fluorine on Thyroid Iodine Metabolism and Hyperthyroidism," Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol. 18, pp. 1102-1110 (1958)
7. Fluorides have a disruptive effect on various tissues in the body.
T. Takamorim " The Heart Changes in Growing Albino Rats Fed on Varied Contents of Fluorine," The Toxicology of Fluorine Symposium, Bern, Switzerland, Oct 1962, pp. 125-129; Vilber A. O. Bello and Hillel J. Gitelman, " High Fluoride Exposure in Hemodialysis Patients," American Journal of Kidney Diseases, Vol. 15, pp. 320-324 (1990); Y. Yoshisa, " Experimental Studies on Chronic Fluorine Poisoning," Japanese Journal of Industrial Health, Vol. 1, pp. 683-690 (1959)
8. Fluoride promotes development of bone cancer.
J.K. Mauer, et al., " Two-Year Cacinogenicity Study Of Sodium Fluoride In Rats," Journal of the National Cancer Institute, Vol. 82, pp. 1118-1126 (1990); Proctor and Gamble " Carcinogenicity Studies with Sodium Fluoride in Rats" National Institute of Environmenrtal Health Sciences Presentation, July 27, 1985; S. E. Hrudley et al., " Drinking Water Fluoridation and Osteosarcoma," Canadian Journal of Public Health, Vol. 81, pp. 415-416 (1990); P. D. Cohn, " A Brief Report on the Association of Drinking Water Fluoridation and Incidence of Osteosarcoma in Young Males," New Jersey Department of Health, Trenton, New Jersey, Nov. 1992; M. C. Mahoney et al., " Bone Cancer Incidence Rates in New York," American Journal of Public Health, Vol. 81, pp. 81, 475 (1991); Irwin Herskowitz and Isabel Norton, " Increased Incidence of Melanotic Tumors Following Treatment with Sodium Fluoride," Genetics Vol. 48, pp. 307-310 (1963); J. A. Disney, et al., " A Case Study in Testing the Conventional Wisdom: School Based Fluoride Mouth Rinse Programs in the USA," Community Dentistry and Oral Epidemiology, Vol. 18, pp. 46-56 (1990); D. J. Newell, " Fluoridation of Water Supplies and Cancer - An Association?," Applied Statistics, Vol. 26, No. 2, pp. 125-135 (1977)
9. Fluorides cause premature aging of the human body.
Nicholas Leone, et al., " Medical Aspects of Excessive Fluoride in a Water Supply," Public Health Reports, Vol. 69, pp. 925-936 (1954); J. David Erikson, " Mortality of Selected Cities with Fluoridated and Non-Fluoridated Water Supplies," New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 298, pp. 1112-1116 (1978); " The Village Where People Are Old Before Their Time," Stern Magazine, Vol. 30, pp. 107-108, 111-112 (1978)
10. Fluoride ingestion from mouth rinses and dentifrices in children is extremely hazardous to biological development, life span and general health.
Yngve Ericsson and Britta Forsman, " Fluoride Retained From Mouth Rinses and Dentifrices In Preschool Children," Caries Research, Vol. 3, pp. 290-299 (1969); W. L. Augenstein, et al., " Fluoride Ingestion In Children: A Review Of 87 Cases," Pediatrics, Vol. 88, pp. 907-912, (1991); Charles Wax, " Field Investigation Report," State of Maryland Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, March 19, 1980, 67 pages; George Waldbott, " Mass Intoxication from Over-Fluoridation in Drinking Water," Clinical Toxicology, Vol. 18, No.5, pp. 531-541 (1981)
Other Facts
The contents of a family size tube of fluoridated toothpaste is enough to kill a 25 pound child.
In 1991, the Akron (Ohio) Regional Poison Center reported that "death has been reported following ingestion of 16mg/kg of fluoride. Only 1/10 of an ounce of fluoride could kill a 100 pound adult. According to the Center, "fluoride toothpaste contains up to 1mg/gram of fluoride." Even Proctor and Gamble, the makers of Crest, acknowledge that a family-sized tube "theoretically contains enough fluoride to kill a small child."
Fluorides have been used to modify behavior and mood of human beings.
It is a little known fact that fluoride compounds were added to the drinking water of prisoners to keep them docile and inhibit questioning of authority, both in Nazi prison camps in World War II and in the Soviet gulags in Siberia.
Fluorides are medically categorized as protoplasmic poisons, which is why they are used to kill rodents.
The September 18, 1943 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, states, "fluorides are general protoplasmic poisons, changing the permeability of the cell membrane by inhibiting certain enzymes. The exact mechanisms of such actions are obscure."
Fluoride consumption by human beings increases the general cancer death rate.
In 1975 Dr. John Yiamouyiannis published a preliminary survey which showed that people in fluoridated areas have a higher cancer death rate than those in non-fluoridated areas. The National Cancer Institute attempted to refute the studies. Later in 1975 Yiamouyiannis joined with Dr. Dean Burk, chief chemist of the National Cancer Institute (1939-1974) in performing other studies which were then included in the Congressional Record by Congressman Delaney, who was the original author of the Delaney Amendment, which prohibited the addition of cancer-causing substances to food used for human consumption. Both reports confirmed the existence of a link between fluoridation and cancer. (Note: Obviously Dr. Burk felt free to agree with scientific truth only after his tenure at National Cancer Institute ended, since his job depended on towing the party line).
Fluorides have little or no effect on decay prevention in humans.
In 1990 Dr. John Colquhoun was forced into early retirement in New Zealand after he conducted a study on 60,000 school children and found no difference in tooth decay between fluoridated and unfluoridated areas. He additionally found that a substantial number of children in fluoridated areas suffered from dental fluorosis. He made the study public.
There is no scientific data that shows that fluoride mouth rinses and tablets are safe for human use.
In 1989 a study by Hildebolt, et al. on 6,000 school children contradicted any alleged benefit from the use of sodium fluorides. A 1990 study by Dr. John Yiamouyiannis on 39,000 school children contradicted any alleged benefits from the use of sodium fluorides. In 1992 Michael Perrone, a legislative assistant in New Jersey, contacted the FDA requesting all information regarding the safety and effectiveness of fluoride tablets and drops. After 6 months of stalling, the FDA admitted they had no data to show that fluoride tablets or drops were either safe or effective. They informed Perrone that they will "probably have to pull the tablets and drops off the market."
The fact that fluoride toothpastes and school based mouth rinses are packaged in aluminum accentuates the effect on the body.
In 1976, Dr. D. Allman and coworkers from Indiana University School of Medicine fed animals 1 part-per-million (ppm) fluoride and found that in the presence of aluminum, in a concentration as small as 20 parts per billion, fluoride is able to cause an even larger increase in cyclic AMP levels. Cyclic AMP inhibits the migration rate of white blood cells, as well as the ability of the white blood cell to destroy pathogenic (disease-causing) organisms. Reference: Journal of Dental Research, Vol. 55, Sup B, p. 523, 1976, " Effect of Inorganic Fluoride Salts on Urine and Tissue Cyclic AMP Concentration in Vivo". (Note: It is no small accident that toothpaste tubes containing fluoride are often made of aluminum)
"Fluoridation is the greatest case of scientific fraud of this century"
Robert Carlton, Ph. D., former U. S. EPA scientist on " Marketplace" Canadian Broadcast Company, Nov. 24, 1992
"Regarding fluoridation, the EPA should act immediately to protect the public, not just on the cancer data, but on the evidence of bone fractures, arthritis, mutagenicity and other effects"
William Marcus, Ph. D., senior EPA toxicologist, Covert Action, Fall 1992, p. 66
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
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If this does not satisfy you, then i doubt anything will. In fact, if you cannot accept these hard facts then what on earth is the point of anyone listening to you on 911?
As for that previous statement being a lie (the one about finding a way to get rid of industry waste), that i am afraid is completely wrong and there is a large amount of info on this.
Please watch this video. I know you are fussy about watching things for some reason, but you might at least get some ideas for further areas to look at.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2886269353175462948&q=flourid e
Everything on it is checkable.
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Johnny Pixels
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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But the fact of the matter is, artificial flouridation raises levels to 1 part per million. That's the world's worst way to dispose of toxic waste. That means they need 1 million litres of water to dispose of 1 litre of flouride. That stuff must be backing up somewhere.
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Oh jesus christ. Your opinon on 911 is now concidered completely invalid.
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scar
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Hey DeFecToR whaddya expect?
He is a gravity denier after all...
Mostly ignored the links and video you posted and went straight to flouridemyths.com...
Mr Pixels bringing the Nambla-stylez as per usual.
[1 minute] |
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| scar wrote: | Hey DeFecToR whaddya expect?
He is a gravity denier after all...
Mostly ignored the links and video you posted and went straight to flouridemyths.com...
Mr Pixels bringing the Nambla-stylez as per usual.
[1 minute] |
 flouridemyths.com
I've a severe hangover, but that made me laugh. Cheers man.
As for you JP, im not even sure what your arguement is. Are you saying that they're actually NOT flouridating the water? That it is not dangerous?
It seems pretty obvious to me that they actually get it from industry waste ( its economical that way and where the hell else are they going to get it from? The flouride factory?), but where they get it from is the least of my concerns and a distraction to be honest. What my focus is on is the fact, and i repeat FACT, that giving flouridated water to my children is an unspeakably dangerous thing to do.
For you to see it a some BIIIIG conspiracy really does say a lot about your charcter. I'm not trying to offend you there, seriously, but for god sake man, you've been spending way too much time around those Randi types. Learn to think for yourself man.
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Johnny Pixels
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Go and distill all your water then.
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Good idea George!!
Never thought of that.
I'll take it from that rather weak response that you have no arguement on this subject.
I'll chalk it up to another example of you guys failing miserably to admit when you are wrong.
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Johnny Pixels
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| DeFecToR wrote: | Good idea George!!
Never thought of that.
I'll take it from that rather weak response that you have no arguement on this subject.
I'll chalk it up to another example of you guys failing miserably to admit when you are wrong. |
Take it as evidence that you are beyond help.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Johnny Pixels wrote: |
Take it as evidence that you are beyond help. |
Any chance you could elaborate a bit?
What exactly is your position on flouridation? Do you think it is safe?
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Johnny Pixels
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| DeFecToR wrote: | | Johnny Pixels wrote: |
Take it as evidence that you are beyond help. |
Any chance you could elaborate a bit?
What exactly is your position on flouridation? Do you think it is safe? |
Yes. Flouride occurs naturally in drinking supplies. Artificial flouridation merely raises the level in low flouride areas, but it raises it to a level below that found in many flouride rich areas. I find it strange that the campaign is against artificial flouridation, but not against the natural levels of flouride that are often higher than the recommended amount.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Johnny Pixels"] | DeFecToR wrote: |
Yes. Flouride occurs naturally in drinking supplies. Artificial flouridation merely raises the level in low flouride areas, but it raises it to a level below that found in many flouride rich areas. I find it strange that the campaign is against artificial flouridation, but not against the natural levels of flouride that are often higher than the recommended amount. |
Now you are simply lying.
Ive had enough debating stuff with you. You are brain dead and what remains of your ability to think is being guided by the opinions of other idiots whose opinion you for some reson value.
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Johnny Pixels
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="DeFecToR"] | Johnny Pixels wrote: | | DeFecToR wrote: |
Yes. Flouride occurs naturally in drinking supplies. Artificial flouridation merely raises the level in low flouride areas, but it raises it to a level below that found in many flouride rich areas. I find it strange that the campaign is against artificial flouridation, but not against the natural levels of flouride that are often higher than the recommended amount. |
Now you are simply lying.
Ive had enough debating stuff with you. You are brain dead and what remains of your ability to think is being guided by the opinions of other idiots whose opinion you for some reson value. |
What part of my post was lies?
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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Jay Ref
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| freddie wrote: | Johnny wrote: | Quote: | | The government doesn't want you to know about those plans like Operation Northwoods? Then how the hell do you know about them? If they didn't want you to know, then they wouldn't have let you know about them. |
That's your definition of critical thinking? - How about you stop and think for a minute about how rediculous that statement is.
Debunker: "There's no evidence that governments have ever even considered such false-flag attacks... "
CT: :But hang on, what about the Northwoods Document that shows they did consider it..."
Debunker: "Well there you go then... they'd never release something that could ever be used against them"
See the circle?
As for "not having any relevance to 9-11", that shows the blinkers you're using to look at this issue. |
Do you folks know how to create a post without propping it up with a logical fallacy?
Look at the above post...spot the strawman...
Oh but sorry, I forgot...without straw there is no substance to your movement.
-z
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"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Do you know something Jay Ref, you are quite honestly a genius when it comes to avoiding issues.
Seriously i'm not being sarcastic. I'm praising your skill. Quite remarkable.
If you're not on the payroll you bloody well should be. If i could run round in cirlces the way you can i'd want to make sure i was paid at least something.
Well done.
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Sinclair
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Just a bump to draw attention to the 50 odd points in the opening post in this thread that haven't been addressed.
Also, some comment/explanation by any critics is welcomed on the photograph below.
This poor woman is standing inside the building, in an area where the fire raged so hot that it melted steel beams? I don't think so.........., however attempts at explaining the incongruity of the woman being able to stand in or around the location where the fire developed temperatures hot enough to supposedly deflect the external steel support columns, are welcomed.
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chipmunk stew
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Sinclair wrote: | Just a bump to draw attention to the 50 odd points in the opening post in this thread that haven't been addressed.
Also, some comment/explanation by any critics is welcomed on the photograph below.
This poor woman is standing inside the building, in an area where the fire raged so hot that it melted steel beams? I don't think so.........., however attempts at explaining the incongruity of the woman being able to stand in or around the location where the fire developed temperatures hot enough to supposedly deflect the external steel support columns, are welcomed.
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Yeah, how about putting Edna in context:
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scubadiver
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| What are you suggesting chipmunk? That picture was photoshopped? For what reason? |
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chipmunk stew
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| scubadiver wrote: | | What are you suggesting chipmunk? That picture was photoshopped? For what reason? |
Photoshopped? No. It was cropped in a deliberately misleading way.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason Edna was in that spot was because the fire, smoke and heat were not? |
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DeFecToR
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Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| chipmunk stew wrote: |
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason Edna was in that spot was because the fire, smoke and heat were not? |
Well, yeh that is basically the point he was trying to make. That there was nowhere hear enough heat/flames/energy necessary to weaken the supports let alone the central columns. Yes the wider shot shows more flame but regardless, i for one doubt there was anyway near enough heat to waken that structure to the point of 'global collapse'.
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scubadiver
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Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1850
Location: Currently Andover
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| DeFecToR wrote: | | chipmunk stew wrote: |
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason Edna was in that spot was because the fire, smoke and heat were not? |
Well, yeh that is basically the point he was trying to make. That there was nowhere hear enough heat/flames/energy necessary to weaken the supports let alone the central columns. Yes the wider shot shows more flame but regardless, i for one doubt there was anyway near enough heat to waken that structure to the point of 'global collapse'. |
That WAS my point!!!!
You can tell just by looking at that third photo that no way those towers should have collapsed.
Compare that to the Windsor building fire in Madrid.
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chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| DeFecToR wrote: | | chipmunk stew wrote: |
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason Edna was in that spot was because the fire, smoke and heat were not? |
Well, yeh that is basically the point he was trying to make. That there was nowhere hear enough heat/flames/energy necessary to weaken the supports let alone the central columns. Yes the wider shot shows more flame but regardless, i for one doubt there was anyway near enough heat to waken that structure to the point of 'global collapse'. |
This is the point he was making:
| Sinclair wrote: | | This poor woman is standing inside the building, in an area where the fire raged so hot that it melted steel beams? I don't think so.........., however attempts at explaining the incongruity of the woman being able to stand in or around the location where the fire developed temperatures hot enough to supposedly deflect the external steel support columns, are welcomed. |
The answer, Sinclair, is no. She was not standing in an area where the fire raged so hot that it melted steel beams.
However, if you zoom out, you can see that there was, indeed a VERY large fire raging above her. (To get an idea of just how large, look at the size of Edna in the middle picture compared to her surroundings, then scale her to the bottom picture. Now compare this tiny speck to the fires raging above her.)
The fire was hot enough to deform the steel and cause buckling (I'll post pictures or links if you want), but the official version does not claim that the fire was hot enough to MELT steel. |
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chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| scubadiver wrote: | | DeFecToR wrote: | | chipmunk stew wrote: |
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason Edna was in that spot was because the fire, smoke and heat were not? |
Well, yeh that is basically the point he was trying to make. That there was nowhere hear enough heat/flames/energy necessary to weaken the supports let alone the central columns. Yes the wider shot shows more flame but regardless, i for one doubt there was anyway near enough heat to waken that structure to the point of 'global collapse'. |
That WAS my point!!!!
You can tell just by looking at that third photo that no way those towers should have collapsed.
Compare that to the Windsor building fire in Madrid.
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The upper steel structure of the Windsor building DID collapse, despite the fact that it was undamaged and was not carrying a heavy load above it.
The only reason the entire building didn't collapse was that its core structure was concrete, not steel. |
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Jay Ref
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| chipmunk stew wrote: | | DeFecToR wrote: | | chipmunk stew wrote: |
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason Edna was in that spot was because the fire, smoke and heat were not? |
Well, yeh that is basically the point he was trying to make. That there was nowhere hear enough heat/flames/energy necessary to weaken the supports let alone the central columns. Yes the wider shot shows more flame but regardless, i for one doubt there was anyway near enough heat to waken that structure to the point of 'global collapse'. |
This is the point he was making:
| Sinclair wrote: | | This poor woman is standing inside the building, in an area where the fire raged so hot that it melted steel beams? I don't think so.........., however attempts at explaining the incongruity of the woman being able to stand in or around the location where the fire developed temperatures hot enough to supposedly deflect the external steel support columns, are welcomed. |
The answer, Sinclair, is no. She was not standing in an area where the fire raged so hot that it melted steel beams.
However, if you zoom out, you can see that there was, indeed a VERY large fire raging above her. (To get an idea of just how large, look at the size of Edna in the middle picture compared to her surroundings, then scale her to the bottom picture. Now compare this tiny speck to the fires raging above her.)
The fire was hot enough to deform the steel and cause buckling (I'll post pictures or links if you want), but the official version does not claim that the fire was hot enough to MELT steel. |
Chip...
Please refrain from pointing out that the "truth" movement is based on cropped photos, wild ideas, and outright lies.
It's not nice to point out the obvious to the 2-digit IQ's around here. They'll stamp their feet and send you to the critic's corner...oh...wait...
nevermind.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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DeFecToR
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Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ye, chipp. Cos dat wos fire wot meltid dem colums wiv all da heet and that. Also da plains wot floo in to dem tawers made em weeker cos of the plains hittin dem hard. Cumision sed so...
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marky 54
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| who pays these people to visit sites they have no beliefs in, or are they monitoring the situtaion to make sure no big storys get out? im not an american football fan so would never dream of going on forums slagging of their teams i have no intrest in. really is starting to seem to me that these people are just there to stop truth with any fact. the fire in that building by the way and imapct zone where at the top, THE TOP! what part of the fire flew around the building slicing the steel beams on the way down to ground level and made the concrete crumble and then imbedded itself in the basement to burn for a month to make molten iron that fire jumped form top to bottom in no time. and have you every thrown sand on a fire? surely the fire was extinguish by the time it hit the bottom with all that shattered concrete flying around in all directions wildly and rapidly like with all natural falls(they have us believe) ;\. they just play the igronance card and have no facts but it was'nt a conspiracy because i called you wacko and that undermines your comments,yea in your world. give me facts if you want to tell me that it was'nt a conspiracy, and i mean video evidence or photo's to support your point. as its much more realiable that a document anyone could of typed or fabricated just like the commission report. lies lies lies and emissions. |
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mark wrote: | | who pays these people to visit sites they have no beliefs in, or are they monitoring the situtaion to make sure no big storys get out? im not an american football fan so would never dream of going on forums slagging of their teams i have no intrest in. really is starting to seem to me that these people are just there to stop truth with any fact. the fire in that building by the way and imapct zone where at the top, THE TOP! what part of the fire flew around the building slicing the steel beams on the way down to ground level and made the concrete crumble and then imbedded itself in the basement to burn for a month to make molten iron that fire jumped form top to bottom in no time. and have you every thrown sand on a fire? surely the fire was extinguish by the time it hit the bottom with all that shattered concrete flying around in all directions wildly and rapidly like with all natural falls(they have us believe) ;\. they just play the igronance card and have no facts but it was'nt a conspiracy because i called you wacko and that undermines your comments,yea in your world. give me facts if you want to tell me that it was'nt a conspiracy, and i mean video evidence or photo's to support your point. as its much more realiable that a document anyone could of typed or fabricated just like the commission report. lies lies lies and emissions. |
Mark.
Your obvious lack of reading comprehension and education makes the pretty pictures and video format of the CT more accessible to your small childlike mind. The NIST report was written by adults, for other adults. Doubtless you find it dull and incomprehensible. Do us all a favour and go read a nice comic book. Honestly I'm quite sure the CTers will soon put the whole conspiracy out in comicbook or colouringbook format! Watch out then you evil NWO/Zionist/Reptiles!! It'll really reach it's optimum audience then!! 
-z!
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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