Stop the War Coalition

[xmasdale]

"Ask the tough questions folks" as Andrew Johnson says.

At last night’s Stop the War meeting in Brixton, addressed by Andrew Murray of the StW Coalition and Nizar Aboud, a Lebanese journalist and activist, I asked the question of the panelists:

"Do you believe the official account of 9/11 put out by the mendacious US and UK governments and, if you do, how do you account for the collapse of WTC 7 at 5.20pm at freefall speed (less than 7 seconds) though it had not been hit by anything."

They refused to answer it. I walked out.

Nizar Aboud had spoken movingly of his country’s resistance to Israel over the past 58 years and proudly over how even mothers were saying they did not mind losing their sons as martyrs so long as the Lebanese resistance won. He took great satisfaction from the "defeat" of Israel this summer and maintains it will now be impossible for the US and UK to mount an attack on Iran.

Andrew Murray had spoken mainly on the role of the StW coalition, how successful their recent work had been and how important it is for us all to get to Manchester for the demo on Sept 24th to show that we will not stand for being ignored by the politicians and how we must now get rid of the mendacious neocon Blair. He also spoke of what a broad coalition StW is and how important it is to keep it together and avoid divisions.

Then the meeting was opened to the floor for "comments and questions". No one put their hand up but me so, even though I may have a reputation as the local tinfoil hat wearer, I asked my question and sat down. The chair then said they would take all comments and questions together and then ask the panellists to respond. Lots of people then expounded their own theories about what the current political situation is, some of them at great length and rather incoherently. No one else asked a question. Then the chair asked the two speakers to respond. They both them talked some more, but neither addressed my question.

The chair then said they would move on to organisational business. I interrupted saying:
" Hey I was the only person who asked a question. Isn’t anyone going to answer it?" Nizar Aboud replied:
"You didn’t ask a question you made a statement."
I retorted:
"I asked you whether you believed the official account of 9/11."
Nizar didn’t answer. I looked at Andrew Murray, but he sat there in silence. Andy, a local StW organiser whom I’d been chatting to prior to the meeting while he tried to sell Socialist Worker, rescued their embarrassment by springing to his feet and talking about something completely different.

I walked out saying:
"If you won’t answer my question I draw obvious conclusions."

I didn’t feel good about the way I had behaved. It would probably have been better to have stayed behind and had friendly one to one chats with the main speakers, but since I felt riled by the way I’d been treated perhaps it was well I left.

Afterwards I tried to put myself in Andrew Murray’s shoes. If he had answered:
"Yes I do believe the official account of 9/11," he would have sounded silly after laying such stress in his talk on the mendacity of the Bush and Blair governments and he wouldn’t have been able to explain the collapse of building 7.

If he had answered
"No I don’t believe it," he would have publicly expressed an opinion which is not StW coalition policy, thus tending to divide the organisation he had been stressing it was so important to keep together.

I have heard reports that this issue is coming up in their internal discussions, but I get no impression of how big the 9/11 truth contingent is within the coalition, probably quite small.

What sort of strategy should we use at such public meetings? Do we make ourselves look like trouble makers by asking awkward questions or by walking out when they're not answered?

[Pikey]

Thanx for that eloquent report Noel.

[Ally]

[Andrew Johnson]

This is a tricky area - I am not sure even if there is a right or wrong approach.

The closest I have some to experiencing this was at the Defining Terrorism (in my view, this was organised as a subtle psy-op through the Muslim Councial of Britain - the MCB) meeting in Nottingham chaired by Lord Carlile.

It is just my hope that by asking these questions, or pointing out salient facts and information, "those that have ears" will hear.

I think it's OK to give panellists and speakers a hard time, providing the discussion can remain civil. To make a point, a leaflet or DVD could be presented to panel members and say "please check/read/watch this".

This is what Pikey did at Question Time and what I did with the event above. Of course no one has contacted me to follow any of this up.

It seems that anyone with ANY amount of Political Power (be it in STW, Amnesty, TUC or gov't) knows that this issue is totally a-political and it therefore threatens the very basis on which left/right politics is founded.

[scar]

Well done Noel. I am doubtful that staying behind to have a 'friendly chat' when they had treated you like that would have been effective. I feel you would have gotten the brush off bigtime. You exposed them and anyone there would surely have had their suspicions raised by it.
Without 9/11 they are lost as Tarpley says, these gatekeepers really do need to be pressed to face this issue, its right at the core of what they fight against.

In typical style:
-its all about polishing the skin of the apple, when the core is rotten. To many the skin seems to be holding up, its cracked and appears to be getting progressively more so as time goes by, but by polishing that skin many believe they can save the apple. Unfortunately this is not the case. Eventually the rot will take over the entire apple and there will be nothing left to polish. The core is getting easier to see now as it is closer to the surface. If only the polishers would have a look at this core and decide to cut it out...we have the tool for it, the key...its 9/11 truth-

"It seems that anyone with ANY amount of Political Power (be it in STW, Amnesty, TUC or gov't) knows that this issue is totally a-political and it therefore threatens the very basis on which left/right politics is founded."

Bang on.

[Annie]

Well done Noel - we have to keep raising this, and it does seem to be having an effect if they are now discussing 911 internally. These discussions may of course be about containment of us and damage limitation, but I do know for certain that there are key STW activists who privately accept that the whole "war on terror" is predicated on false-flag attacks. Also, the "terror plot" of a couple of weeks ago must be making the brighter ones in their ranks think again.

Plus, it's ironic that Murray can stand up and talk about STW being a broad coalition, but won't touch us. It makes a mockery of his claims, and they must see this.

Let's all keep chipping away. Nobody said this was going to be easy, but the situation is shifting slowly.

Regards

Annie

[xmasdale]

[Belinda]

It's important to keep being an irritant because only that way will they (STW) finally have to apply their minds to this issue. Up till now I believe they've been told (from above?!) that we're totally up the wrong tree, we're an irrelevance and a red herring and way too far out in our personal beliefs to be taken seriously, so they're best to ignore us and press on with what they're doing - which is what the bulk of the general British public will buy into and understand, rather than 'conspiracy theories' and theorists with nutty ideas; so ignore us and in time we'll dry up and fade away!

But by now they must be beginning to realise that we're not by any means fading away, that our numbers are growing and that we could even be draining away a lot of their potential new supporters with our more focussed message and they're flummoxed frankly, they don't know what to do! That's why you get silence if you challenge them head on at meetings.

But they'll come round because a) the proportion of real 'conscious' gatekeepers to any one organisation is small if not infinitesimal, hence can never prevail b) most of the STW people are normal, sentient folk like us, upset and outraged at what is going on, only stuck in a mental groove and increasingly at a loss as to how on earth they can alter the course of events in any significant way - and that's why the numbers who turn up to meetings are dropping.

So although I can quite understand why xmasdale gets frustrated and walks out I think all we need to do at this point in time re. STW is hang in there, keep being friendly and pleasant but also insistent that they MUST apply their minds and they MUST join up with us, or vice versa, and that this will and has to happen if this people's movement is to have any hope of utlimately being effective.

A propos, I spoke to Lindsay German at last week's general STW meeting at Friends House on Lebanon and informed her that we're holding various commemorative events around the 5th anniversary of 9/11, so could she/colleagues relay details of these to the STW network? I said that even though opinions differ as to what really happened on 9/11 and as to why this has to still be an issue, we still all have to commemorate this event because of the victims & families, so it would be appropriate if at the very least some STW people joined us at the memorial silent demo at the US Embassy on 11 September. She said email us about it, so I have done that and have passed on details of all our events over the weekend of 9-11 September. Abusing my position as UK 9/11 Truth vice-chair!! I offered complimentary tickets to STW leading lights to the DRG presentation at Conway Hall (I will personally subsidise those) but warned that tickets are selling like hot cakes and may soon be sold out so STW members need to apply asap.

It will be difficult for them I think to remain haughtily aloof when this hand of friendship & solidarity has been held out to them. I trust that they will make the right decision and join us next month. At the very least they really should participate in the US Embassy demo on 11th.

(Any closet gatekeepers in STW will just have to grit their teeth and bear it!)

Belinda

[paul wright]

Hhhmm yeah Belinda
While I believe I'll be down there with you at grosvener Sq 9/11 I believe our group hope to manifest in the centre of Bradford with some kind of vigil
Contact sheffield@indymedia.co.uk who wants to coordinate some kind of nationwide event reportable on indymedia

[Snowygrouch]

All,
There are theories about gatekeepers and other top down subversion of the 9.11 truth in STW and similar.

However I believe the kneejerk horror with which STW react to 9.11 may be down to another factor.

Good old fear and terror. You see to be involved in STW implies a level of deep understanding that many of the powers that be in the work dont care about human life; that they will lie and kill us.

This is a terryfying prospect for the human mind. When we come along stating that not ONLY are the wars fake but that the worlds biggest government is murdering its own citizens.....

Well I belive thats a statement that requires tremendous mental strength and spiritual integrity to handle and still remain a functional human being. I`m sure it takes its heavy toll on most of us sometimes.

This is just too much for them, it is like climbing a mountain of truth; only opon reaching what they thought was the summit we have shown them the true dark summit still higher. They though they had got there but were nowhere near.

The solution to this is that WE CANNOT just concentrate on illustrating the obvious evidence of an inside job to STW.

What we MUST work hard to do is show them that THROUGH 9.11 they will ONLY THEN be able to achieve peace. We are their soul mates in philospohical terms and this must be made a point of.

We are there to help their effort and precipitate their goals not to belittle their movement or make accusations.

Andrew Johnson made a very sterling approach in just this manner on the SSAW website.

As for your actions Noel, I could not possibly disagree with them one bit.

Personally I often let my temper go over refusal to look at 9.11 and it is quite possible the most infuriating aspect of our task. I would probably have turned red and spit venom at them.

I have also illustrated there that being calm and retaining decorum is rather easier said than done

However as has been said by plugging away we will not fail.
Truth has its own aura which cannot be argued with for ever.

Calum

[uselesseater]

I have to agree with everythin posted above, but heres my two cents. There's any number of reasons why STWers might refuse to contemplate the possibility of the 9/11 being a hoax. One which i've constantly come across, not with STWers but with well meaning left/liberal types is the problem of their ego. Some of them think of themselves as very informed and possibly feel quite smug about that. When someone is presenting a viewpoint that shatters their paradigm, some find it personaly offensive that someone would dare to try and inform them. I've experienced this first hand with freinds who have disparigingly commenting 'I don't like the way you think you're more informed than me 'cause you've read what someone has written of the internet'. This is why I believe that the way we communicate information to people is of paramount importance.

As far as the leaders of STW go, they personaly have much to lose from 9/11 comming out as their credibility would be shot to pieces so I think targeting the STW followers and encouraging them to think for themselves might bring more success. 9/11 truth is the most grass roots, mainstream issue, possibly ever unrestricted by political orientation or any other possible dividing lines.

[xmasdale]

[xmasdale]

[xmasdale]

[Andrew Johnson]

Here is the post on SSAW

http://forum.ssaw.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=556&st=0#entry1335747

Tom tried to criticise the science, based on the number of significant figures I used in my basic freefall maths equations. He also didn't see fit to check out the Scholars forum.

He didn't respond once I'd posted the link to the Physics Forum, which contains over 14,000 posts running over 9 months.

This seems to be fairly good gauge as to "where they're at" just now.

[Martin Conner]

Somewhat off topic, but I think it might be an opportunity for some people to indulge in. http://www.just-a-minute.org/
I care less for religion; however, I do think meditation can assist with a number of issues.

[Graham]

[xmasdale]