| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Narinder
Minor Poster
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Bradford
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
xxThe_Dice_manxx
Minor Poster
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Northern Ireland
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Greetings
I agree Narinder "there is something very wrong with this country".
_________________
MAD BAD AND DANGEROUS TO KNOW
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mo1912
Minor Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Yorkshire U.K.
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I lived in Bradford all my life until 7 years ago .I agree that it has a lot of problems .It has racial tensions which must have worsened since the recent terrorist scares . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lostpomme
Minor Poster
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
That clip is comical. I've lived and worked in and around Bradford my whole life. The issue is hugely complicated and has too many far reaching implications to be addressed in that way.
The old chap who was interviewed gave the text book answer ive heard a million times from my parents generation: "It's their fault, they dont even talk to you in the street, they don't assimilate into society" etc.
The simple truth is that there is an atmosphere of racism running under the surface which no amount of government initiatives can address. The old guy in the clip was typical of a large percentage of people from that era who are still stuck in the "us and them" manner of thought. They don't believe they are racist, but they wouldn't buy a house in Bradford and live next door to an Asian. Many people around here think that racism is simply a matter of what name you use to refer to an ethnic group. Too few have any concept of the very subtle underlying prejudice which keeps us segregated. Education and time are the only solution's.
_________________
War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Briaman
Minor Poster
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 39
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lostpomme wrote: |
The old chap who was interviewed gave the text book answer ive heard a million times from my parents generation: "It's their fault, they dont even talk to you in the street, they don't assimilate into society" etc.
The simple truth is that there is an atmosphere of racism running under the surface which no amount of government initiatives can address.
|
The United Kingdom is not a racist country. We bend over backwards to accomodate other cultural groups. Minority groups get preferential access to all my local council's services. Employers and Educators are required by law to employ a certain proportion of minority candidates. Government and Council literature is reproduced in a whole host of languages other than English. And while it is the government that has put these policies into place - all of this has been done with the support and cooperation of a very large part of the British population. In case you don't know which part - it is our parents generation.
Calling our parents generation racist is like calling Santa miserly.
_________________
Error in module creativity.dll : unable to create witty comment.
Abort / Retry / Ignore |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paul wright
Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Briaman wrote: |
The United Kingdom is not a racist country.. |
Maybe not where you are, but live your life here
It's an underlying theme and built into the bricks and mortar
_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xxThe_Dice_manxx
Minor Poster
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Northern Ireland
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Greetings
"The United Kingdom is not a racist country.."
What United Kingdom do you live in?
_________________
MAD BAD AND DANGEROUS TO KNOW
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lostpomme
Minor Poster
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | The United Kingdom is not a racist country. We bend over backwards to accomodate other cultural groups. Minority groups get preferential access to all my local council's services. Employers and Educators are required by law to employ a certain proportion of minority candidates. Government and Council literature is reproduced in a whole host of languages other than English. And while it is the government that has put these policies into place - all of this has been done with the support and cooperation of a very large part of the British population. In case you don't know which part - it is our parents generation. |
I'm not labeling our entire parents generation racist, (that would be agist  ) and am quite aware of the many efforts by people in government to bend over backwards for ethnic minorities. I work in the fire service and can assure you there has been no shortage of said initiatives there; most of which are met with contempt (specifically from the ethnic minorities concerned) for causing more division than they heal. These initiatives aim to tackle the problem from the top down and that is impossible. I once listened to a lecture on diversity given by a superior who upon its completion cracked a joke that many (including myself) would find to be racist. He didn't make this remark because he is a seething spiting racist swine, he made it because he only has a diluted idea of what racism is.
Many people in these parts are careful not to use unacceptable words which cause offense to minorities, and are keen to inform you how they treat everyone equally regardless of background. However many of these people, once they are sat in the privacy of their homes with the family, wouldn't think twice about making a small "harmless " joke regarding the racial content of a news report. They think it is harmless because there are no pakistanis in their front room. The kids hear it, laugh with dad, and the cycle continues.
Santa doesn't exist, and neither does a racism free country. Yet.
_________________
War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Newspeak International
Validated Poster
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 1158
Location: South Essex
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | However many of these people, once they are sat in the privacy of their homes with the family, wouldn't think twice about making a small "harmless " joke regarding the racial content of a news report. They think it is harmless because there are no pakistanis in their front room. The kids hear it, laugh with dad, and the cycle continues.
|
..or in classes in lecture rooms, been there heard it myself.
The term "knuckle draggers" used often by the lecturer, practically everday reinforces the racist mindset underpinning the views of a middle class lecturer.
"since we have no minorities in this group, can I just say ........"
opening the door for this student:
the tales of woe of the Daily Mail reading bigot who has problems selling his house to a **** family.He doesn't get why he has problems?
and puts it down to them being greedy *****.
Of course trying to get as much as he can for his house is not greed,nah market forces mate,sell as high as you can! Is it any wonder why no one likes him where he works?
Then there's the one with the racist jokes in the group,it's the only thing he's good at period.
Then there's me, openly slagging the DM and it's reader in the group,and not laughing at the racist jokes, only the "clean" ones.
After initially dousing the racists, and having every point made by the lecturer on his racist theme, jokingly looking at me as if I were the odd one out.
How we all laughed along in the end.
N |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Briaman wrote: |
The United Kingdom is not a racist country. |
Coming from a family and a class which maintained it was regrettable that the British Empire was collapsing with remarks such as "The natives will never be able to run it themselves" and "You can't have a lot of black people around the place" I have to disagree with you, Briaman.
| Briaman wrote: |
We bend over backwards to accomodate other cultural groups. Minority groups get preferential access to all my local council's services. Employers and Educators are required by law to employ a certain proportion of minority candidates. |
That is untrue. To do so would constitute "positive discrimination" which in the UK, though not in the US, is illegal. The law obliges councils and employers to provide services on merit and to make appointments on merit. To fail to do so is a breach of law and of equal opportunities principles, though I admit is sometimes happens. I have had to inform myself on these issues due to my work in education and with refugees.
I frequently hear people make such remarks, but they are modern myths, encouraged by much of the media.
| Briaman wrote: | | Government and Council literature is reproduced in a whole host of languages other than English. |
If you need to get complex issues across to people who do not speak good English, the best way to do it is to use their first language. What's wrong with that? Do you go abroad and learn perfectlythe language of the country you're visiting, or are you glad that so many people in other countries speak yours?
| Briaman wrote: | And while it is the government that has put these policies into place - all of this has been done with the support and cooperation of a very large part of the British population. In case you don't know which part - it is our parents generation.
Calling our parents generation racist is like calling Santa miserly. |
Well my parents generation certainly were and I have had to go through a lot of self-examination in order to get rid of the racist assumptions I was brought up with, particularly the one that the British Empire was justified because we white Britons were racially superior and therefore had a right and a duty to rule over lesser breeds.
Noel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
celtislam
New Poster
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: West yorkshire , England.
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is absolute nonsence! , this is total lies and properganda , the communites in bradford have been set that way due to white people clearly being racist against asian and blacks etc.
As a white man from bradford area , i know too well the racist attacks white people did against asian people , no wonder the asian people ended living together, they needed to feel safe as the goverment did nothing to combat racist attacks during the 70s and 80s, short memory has a short memory?
It is not fair to put all the blame on asian people , white people in bradford also share the blame in this when it comes to racial segregation.
One can say it is natural to be among the people you most get along with , lets face it folks , the white council estates in bradford are in such a mess why would any asian want to move to such an estate where racism still exists and where the bnp reside?
There is more to this subject that one thinks , yes i will agree that we all must intigrate to an extent but who was the ones that moved out of these areas in order that these areas became mostly asian?
It was the white people that left these areas due to the simple fact of not wanting to be around asians.
When ever an asian family came into a white area, they were 1st abused and then as many more asian people came the whites simply left , that is the case in all mostly now asian areas.
One has to admit that there is racial predudice on both side of this story but lets not forget the 70s and 80s with its NF BNP racist attacks on asian and other ethnic peoples , and to tell you the truth of this whole matter , bradford is a mess and i blame the goverment for this.
Bradford needs help like most towns and citys across the uk , racial divide only comes when there is a brakedown in communication. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lostpomme
Minor Poster
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | That is untrue. To do so would constitute "positive discrimination" which in the UK, though not in the US, is illegal. |
It is a fact that West Yorkshire Fire Service, as part of its ongoing efforts towards diversity, have in place a policy of positive discrimination. It is easier for a person from an ethnic minority to secure a position as a Firefighter than it is for a white person.
This is not my opinion, it is practised policy.
Right or wrong, thats how it is.
_________________
War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
celtislam
New Poster
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: West yorkshire , England.
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lostpomme wrote: | | Quote: | | That is untrue. To do so would constitute "positive discrimination" which in the UK, though not in the US, is illegal. |
It is a fact that West Yorkshire Fire Service, as part of its ongoing efforts towards diversity, have in place a policy of positive discrimination. It is easier for a person from an ethnic minority to secure a position as a Firefighter than it is for a white person.
This is not my opinion, it is practised policy.
Right or wrong, thats how it is. |
So why are 99.9% of west yorkshire firefighters white? lol and not to mention the police lol |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lostpomme
Minor Poster
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i never said it was working! Just that the policy exists.
The severe imbalance is the reason for it.
_________________
War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jane
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Otley, West Yorks, England
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: Segregated Schools |
|
|
I'll come back to this later - I've just found this thread and have to go out.... but for now I'll just say I went to a "segregrated school" and I bet a lot of politicians did as well - Tory and Labour.. a "private school" where children are "segragated" from others who's dad's haven't managed to make as much brass as my dad did (I've spent it all now, I'm ashamed to say!) - there are even worse versions of this "segregation" - what about Eton and Harrow?!! And the people who go there often go on to further "segration" - Oxford and Cambridge, etc - and then go on to rule the country!!
And I'm no Marxist!! Maybe it's because these people are so "segregated" from other human beings that they talk such a load of nonsense!
_________________
Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
http://www.wytruth.org.uk/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lostpomme
Minor Poster
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Agreed jane. The division is present in every aspect of the country and the issue is as much "rich and poor" as it is "black and white" depending where in the country you happen to be.
Racism, Sexism, Homophobia etc are just a few examples.
We can argue forever about how to solve one particular issue with government initiatives or positive discrimination but if we dont look at the big picture we miss the point. What do all the problems have in common? Small minded, misguided bigots on one hand and victims on the other.
I remember going ice skating with two friends in Bradford as a kid. On the way out around seven asian lads jumped us in the street and gave us a bit of a hiding. I dont think we were attacked by "racist Asian's", i think we were attacked by "stupid people". My friend didn't agree and went on to become quite the racist.
It is in our power to cut the cycle, or add to it. Quite possibly the guys who beat us up were retaliating for some similar attack on them. When enough people cut the cycle it has to break, and for that to happen it must happen on the individual level. The only answer is education and time.
_________________
War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Newspeak International
Validated Poster
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 1158
Location: South Essex
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Excellent post Lady Jane,maam |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Newspeak International
Validated Poster
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 1158
Location: South Essex
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | The only answer is education and time |
Considering the government record on educashun is not all that great for the vast majority, the time required would take decades,save for a shocking and catalysing event, like revealing the real events of the new pearl harbour!
I once read,may have been a Chinese proverb something like:
"If you become my enemy,I will become stronger than if you were my friend"
Total guess really but the sentiment I understood, shame I've forgotten the exact phrase. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lostpomme
Minor Poster
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Considering the government record on educashun is not all that great for the vast majority, the time required would take decades,save for a shocking and catalysing event, like revealing the real events of the new pearl harbour! |
lol nicely said.
mmm... back to the new pearl harbour then...
_________________
War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jane
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Otley, West Yorks, England
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: "Spelling" etc!! |
|
|
| Quote: | | Excellent post Lady Jane,maam |
Thanks, "Newspeak.." Dear!
...Apart from the spelling, that is:
Did you mean: segregation? (Google!)
Did you mean: segregated ? (Google)
What a Moron! All my poor dad's hard earned money wasted!!! (I usually do a spell check before posting!!!!)
Yesterday I was in a hurry to get to Otley Library before it closed ...whilst there I saw the front page of the "Sunday Express"
It went something like:
"Nasty ugly, armless "Muslim" ("Captain Hook") ran school for "Terrorists"
This made me think:
Yes, we bloody well are a "Racist Society" (as if I needed reminding!) and also Yes, you are a prime object of derision/scorn (should have been aborted) if you are not "physically ok" - I don't know, maybe "Captain Hook" blew his arms off making "bombs" (??!!) but I committed the crime of being born a female with a spinal deformity ...who thought up words like"Hunchback" (had that shouted at me many times in the past!); "Paki" (heard that used about other people and now it would seem the world "Muslim" itself is being used in this way). Who first thinks these words up, that’s what I’ve often wondered….
Someone first saw someone in the street with a limp and thought “I shall name that person a “cripple” and most people went along with it! It is like the Bully in the school yard naming everyone and the others cowering behind him in agreement, for fear that it might be “Four Eyes” or whatever next…! And it still goes on but now it’s couched in “politically correct” terminology!! (as some of you are well aware!). I’m sure I must have used terms like this myself (I know we are really discussing racism here and maybe I’m hijacking this thread a little – I just see it as all the same thing really – how cold, cruel and nasty we can be to one another)…I was at a conference recently and this enormously fat woman came to join our table at lunch:
“No, we haven’t room!” I thoughtfully exclaimed! But the other people I was with “found room” and whereas I would have had a “bit of a giggle” about her after she had left – they obviously did not feel the same way so I kept quiet! We need to “educate oneanother” to be human beings and to be kind…I know “racism” goes beyond this – but I do think what I am saying here is relevant….
Sorry, but I feel another quote re Roger Waters coming on – tolerate me. Please!
When Waters takes to the stage to sing classic tracks from Pink Floyd’s The Wall, the songs speak not of individual isolation but racial segregation. The band opened with In the Flesh. During the verse Waters sings “that one in the spotlight he don’t look right to me, get him up against the wall” a giant cheer went up as he followed with the line, “and that one looks Jewish and that ones a coon” confirming that the vast majority of the crowd are young, Jewish Israelis – most Palestinians have neither the money nor the means to attend. The irony of fifty thousand people who live in a state which divides its inhabitants based on their race with a giant wall, singing along to a song attacking racism and discrimination is hard to ignore
http://www.waronwant.org/?lid=12537
What a set of utter b****** we are!!!
_________________
Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
http://www.wytruth.org.uk/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lostpomme wrote: | | Quote: | | That is untrue. To do so would constitute "positive discrimination" which in the UK, though not in the US, is illegal. |
It is a fact that West Yorkshire Fire Service, as part of its ongoing efforts towards diversity, have in place a policy of positive discrimination. It is easier for a person from an ethnic minority to secure a position as a Firefighter than it is for a white person.
This is not my opinion, it is practised policy.
Right or wrong, thats how it is. |
If that is the policy and you feel discriminated against by it, you could challenge it in the courts. What policy document is it in? Which clause states that this is the policy? What is the wording of that clause?
The object of equal opportunities policies in employment is to ensure that the best qualified person gets the job and that well qualified people do not get excluded because interview panels excercise their prejudices.
Statements like yours need evidence to back them up. Where is your evidence? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lostpomme
Minor Poster
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| xmasdale wrote: | | lostpomme wrote: | | Quote: | | That is untrue. To do so would constitute "positive discrimination" which in the UK, though not in the US, is illegal. |
It is a fact that West Yorkshire Fire Service, as part of its ongoing efforts towards diversity, have in place a policy of positive discrimination. It is easier for a person from an ethnic minority to secure a position as a Firefighter than it is for a white person.
This is not my opinion, it is practised policy.
Right or wrong, thats how it is. |
If that is the policy and you feel discriminated against by it, you could challenge it in the courts. What policy document is it in? Which clause states that this is the policy? What is the wording of that clause?
The object of equal opportunities policies in employment is to ensure that the best qualified person gets the job and that well qualified people do not get excluded because interview panels excercise their prejudices.
Statements like yours need evidence to back them up. Where is your evidence? |
Policy document? My grasp of the terminology may be insufficient. I was unaware that a matter of policy had to be written up and stamped approved for it to be put into action. Are the actions of an institution only worthy of comment if it has taken steps to document those actions?
Telephone WYFS HQ (an equal oportunities employer) and enquire as to the methods by which they select recruits and you will get the answer you expect.
That does not change the fact that the officer's responsible for selecting recruits are under obvious and significant pressure from above to recruit a higher percentage of any group which is poorly represented in the fire service at present. This applies to Women also.
The officers making these decisions can climb or descend the career ladder depending on their ability to meet these expectations. In order for the public face of the fire service to reflect the public itself, diversity targets have been set, and the Fire and civil defence authority's budget is affected by its success in meeting those targets.
Evidence? No sorry, no bits of paper i'm afraid. But i have worked there since 2003 and discussed it at length with many officers. The fact is universally understood throughout the brigade.
For the record, i didn't say i felt discriminated against by it. It's a difficult subject and the fact is that more women and minorities are needed in the fire service.
I was merely addressing a statement i knew to be incorrect from personal experience.
It happens. Regardless of an abscence of documentation.
Dan
_________________
War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Chat
Usergroups
Calendar
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
