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Blair speech signals beginning of World War IV
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insidejob
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Blair speech signals beginning of World War IV Reply with quote

BLAIR SIGNALS BEGINNING OF WORLD WAR IV
An analysis by insidejob, August 206

People around the world face two possible agendas resulting from events in Lebanon - one regional and the other global. Tony Blair’s speech suggests it is the worst one: war, economic collapse, other calamities followed by a one-world government ruled with feudal powers by a global elite.

REGIONAL AGENDA: OIL AND THE LEWIS PLAN
The grandfather of the regional agenda is former British spy, Foreign Office official and Princeton academic Bernard Lewis (http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2846b_lewis_profile.html). The ‘clash of civilisations’ was his idea. His perspective on the Middle East has been influential in academia and in political circles. He promoted the idea that Islam was a backward religion that produces terrorism. His solution was the Balkanisation of the region.

After the first Iraq war, in the influential ‘Foreign Affairs’ journal, he argued that Middle East states would and should degenerate into fratricidal, parochialist violence and chaos ethnic entities. This would mean that the only powerful local state would be Israel and with its US partner they would dominate oil production.

The elite did not want to be honest with its public instead this aim had to be marketed. They used a threat. This was done in the 1990s by political elites such as former Secretary of State, George P. Schultz, former CIA chief James Woolsey, former Iraqi administrator Paul Bremer and their Committee on the Present Danger. They claimed the West needed a World War IV (World War III was the Cold War) last would last for decades (http://takingaim.info/shows/takingaim030603.html).

Their propaganda is that militant Islam wants a war against Judeo-Christian, liberal, democratic West. The West needed a war on terror against terrorists and ‘rogue states’ like Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Tunisia and North Korea but also Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

Perhaps it is more than convenient for Al-Qaeda to then show up. The CIA and Saudi financing of bin Laden is well documented. The Muslim Brotherhood was used in the 1950s in an attempt to get rid of Egyptian nationalist, Nasser. When Nasser used violence to get rid of them, the CIA helped them to find a new home in Saudi Arabia. But the CIA claims that the current terror is all ‘blowback’.

One of the first plans for war on terror appeared in 1996, when the US’ Defense Policy Board delivered a policy document, ‘A Clean Break’ to Benjamin Netanyahu, new Israeli PM and leader of the right-wing party, Likud. It advocated dumping ‘land for peace’ compromises with Arabs to replace confronting enemies, regime change and securing economic independence.

This is what Condeleezza Rice really meant when she talked about death in Lebanon being the ‘birth pangs of a new Middle East’. Clearly, Iraq was the first war to bring this about and Israel is a tool to begin a bigger Middle Eastern conflagration.

Most of Tony Blair latest speech on a new Middle East policy fits into this. Indeed, the public may warm to some aspects of his speech. He talks of “moderation”, tackling poverty, a two-state solution, winning hearts and minds. It leads people to believe that he thinks the military solution is not working. But given his position on the Lebanonese conflict, this is all spin.

What suggests Blair was speaking in code was his reference to ‘arc of extremism’. Meaningless for most people but the elite and their supporters will know it comes from ‘arc of the crisis’ by influential writer and former US National Security adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinksi. For Brzezinksi, the arc was territory, the Eurasian landmass, from the Middle East to Pakistan, as one rich in resources, including oil. He says, the West should to get hold of it.

INTERNATIONAL BANKERS: THE ANGLO-AMERICAN ESTABLISHMENT
If it is code, then other parts of his speech suggests something else. Firstly, the speech also comes at a time when there is an increase in violence in Iraq and Afghanistan: there indeed is a crisis in the arc. Also, according to US press, Blair met Schultz at an elite club called Bohemian Grove. Many leading US and UK politicians and figures have taken part in the Grove jaunts. But conspiracy theorist who have gained access to the Grove state that it is Masonic and sinister in its mission.

The sinister mission centres around powerful, wealthy, criminal international bankers who can buy politicians and major companies. What they want is a feudalist global government that they will control and they will use global war and chaos to bring it about. Their plan has been set out by the late Professor Carroll Quigley, in his book ‘Tragedy and Hope’. Quigley’s insights are used in William F Engdhal’s ‘A Century of War’.

Quigley gained inside information about a group called the Anglo-American Establishment and revealed ‘too much’ about them. He revealed a hidden world of power, intrigue and conspiracy that most people would regard as malevolent. Most people would find its secrets unbelievable. In his book, he states: “The powers of financial capitalism had a far reaching plan, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences.”

It started in the late 17th century with the Bank of England, the world’s first major, privately-controlled central bank. Until 1947, the UK bank notes were controlled and produced by this bank, a private company. It began because the King needed its money to finance a war and international bankers have been aligned to wars ever since. It took another turn in the 19th century with a body called the Rhodes-Milner Group set up by Cecil Rhodes’ millions. Through international bankers, this group secured a place in the US (Wall Street) and became the Anglo-American Establishment.

Grabbing other people’s resources was key. Racism and slavery helped to produce the UK’s banking system and the City of London was a major player in the criminal colonial enterprise. The UK’s black colonies were ‘Crown Colonies’ but some argue that it did not mean that the Monarch were responsible for them. The ‘Crown’ (http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?disc=234999;article=304;title=A PFN%20MESSAGE%20BOARD) referred to the people who controlled the semi-autonomous area called the ‘City of London’. The City could count on the British military to control the colonies and also do as much exploiting as they wanted. The Anglo-American Establishment’s imperial aspirations have not dimmed.

The key bankers include Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin, Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris, Warburg Batiks of Hamburg and Amsterdam, Lehman Brothers Bank of New York, Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York, Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (controlled by the Rockefellers), Goldman Sachs Bank of New York and JP Morgan. They run the Federal Reserve bank. Rockefeller is said to be worth $12 trillion while the Rothschild fortune has been estimated to be up to $400 trillion.

The Establishment’s major tools include privately-controlled central banks, the politicians they back, the Western intelligence agencies, Freemasons, Rhodes Scholars, the major oil and arms companies, the main Western media outlets, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Group, the powerful Council on Foreign Relations in the US, its sister organisation the Royal Institute for International Affairs, the International Bank of Settlements, the IMF, the World Bank and the UN. It was the Council on Foreign Relations that created the UN. A key Establishment family, the Rockefellers, donated land for the UN. They want one world government with one currency that they will control because they control gold, oil, banks and the money supply of the most powerful nations.

Supporting the Rothchilds, the Rockefellers, et al can make you rich. Seriously oppose them and you can end up dead. The Rockefellers support Kissinger and Brezinski. It is claimed that President Jack Kennedy began to oppose the international bankers and he was assassinated. Indeed, most of the US Presidents who have been assassinated have opposed a privately controlled central bank. Most of the nations regarded by the US as rogue do not allow international bankers to control their central banks.

Many people think that US Vice-President, Dick Cheney is calling the shots in the Middle East. In reality, he is actually following a policy determined by George Shultz and it is Schultz who is representing the bankers. Schultz is on the board of Bechtel, the pharmaceutical company, Gilead, and the investment company Charles Schwartz Corporation. He is also on good terms with the Rothchilds. (http://www.themoneymasters.com/)

GLOBAL AGENDA: WAR AND ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT
When the aims and historical role of the Anglo-American establishment is understood, then the apparent psychotic behaviour of Israel and Blair’s code can be understood. So when he said “we are far from persuading those we need to persuade”, he means the public in the West and just not in the Middle East are unlikely to support their feudalist program any time soon.

He indicates that there will be a step change in the way the elite policy, plans and activity: "to change dramatically the focus of our policy…in the short term we are not winning”. It is not persuasion that he is talking about when he refers to those who will oppose the elite inside and outside the West but chaos and violence: "we must commit ourselves to a complete renaissance of our strategy to defeat those that threaten us".

He says Hizbollah wants to create “chaos, division and bloodshed and to provoke retaliation by Israel that would lead to Arab and Muslim opinion being inflamed, not against those who started the aggression, but those who responded to it". When it is the Anglo-American Establishment has actually planned this and set up Israel to take the retaliation.

Indeed, the reality of the ‘arc of the crisis’ is that it is created by the West. Staggering incompetence - too staggering without planning - by multiple US agencies led to 911 and a war on terror supported by the US public. They claim they do not know where Bin Laden is yet Al-Qaeda is full of their double agents. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/200 1/11/04/MN117081.DTL, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/17/1472/52474, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/06/23/walq23 .xml, http://www.911citizenswatch.org/print.php?sid=82). Analysts like Peter Goodgame in ‘The Globalists and the Islamists’, claim that the global elite has had a hand in shaping and financing all the terrorist organizations of the twentieth century, including the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt, Hamas of Palestine and the Afghan Mujahideen (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=LIV20 060719&articleId=2757).

But Blair does suggest that it is not only one region when he states the conflict in the Middle East and beyond was "in part a struggle between what I call reactionary Islam and moderate mainstream Islam, but its implications go far wider. We are fighting a war - but not just against terrorism, but about how the world should govern itself in the early 21st century, about global values." When he says “how the world should govern itself” and “global values”, it is code for one world government.

The man behind the regional agenda is George Schultz who is also the political point man for the global agenda. Many rich and powerful groups, such as MPs, can be allured to support the regional agenda but it is likely that it is being used as a trap to spring the global one-world government agenda.

But the global agenda is not really about the Project of the New American Century and US domination. It is about the bankers’ fear that they will not indefinitely control the US so they are pushing the US into wars that will exhaust and bankrupt it. It is about creating global chaos and economic catastrophe. Such chaos will persuade people and politicians that the world needs less national sovereignty and more global government.

This is the view is supported by Dr. Tatyana Koryagina, (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/16/103951.shtml) a senior research fellow at the Russian Ministry of Economic Development and special adviser to President Putin. She became famous after predicting the collapse of the Russian economy in 1998 and the collapse of the US economy after an autumn attack in 2001.

Her interview in the newspaper, Pravda, in July 2001 was widely discussed. She said: “There are international ‘super-state’ and ‘super-government’ groups. In accordance with tradition, the mystical and religious components play extremely important roles in human history…
“The U.S. has been chosen as the object of financial attack because the financial centre of the planet is located there. The effect will be maximal. The strike waves of economic crisis will spread over the planet instantly and will remind us of the blast of a huge nuclear bomb.”

Lebanon may have been chosen as the beginning of the new agenda. If so, then Blair will want the conflict there to continue and to spread. And, if he is in charge of formulating a UN ceasefire resolution then elements in the resolution will ensure that it fails.
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depressing, but highly educational. Thankyou, insidejob.

It is no surprise that Lewis is Jewish.

The mind boggles. Where do these people get their morality from....the Talmud?....Satan?.....Both?

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, fake or not, say that the goyim are stupid.


We must be....to allow these fiends to march all over us with their gloatingly overt satanic agenda.

I'd be interested to know who estimated or how it was estimated that the Rothschilds are worth about $400 trillion. That is such a ridiculous amount of money. That is nearly $1.5 million for every man woman and child in the US and the UK. Can this be possible? I don't really expect you to be able to answer that.
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Leiff
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done insidejob

Money grabbing international bankers are not the most popular demographic in the world as it is, so imagine how unpopular they would become if all this became common knowledge!

Spread the word!
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Mark Gobell
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234

Thanks to a previous post of yours, I ordered The Money Masters DVD.

An excellent history of the banking system that fills in the many gaps I had in my limited knowledge.

Oh, and I now know what "fractional reserve banking" actually means.

Thanks for the tip !

Two very informative, essential DVD's.

http://www.themoneymasters.com

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Garcon Warrior
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres also some great information (and a lot of it) about Enron, Bush and the history of banking in this article which is in 6 parts.

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/lindaminor/lm3,19,02harvardtoenron,pt1.h tm
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scar
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Money Masters on google vid:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8442305921010099392
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5020331178524208549
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3510313821923167501
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Jim
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234

Hope you don't mind me asking but why the reference to being Jewish?

Did you mean to imply that he may have Zionist affiliations?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inside Job, it seems you really have been 'inside' - inside the Schiller Institute that is. Looks like you've lifted your entire post from EIR. It is about as 'educational' as a Josef Goebbels lecture (whose style your mentor Lyndon, no doubt, has taught you to emulate at his summer camp).

Two observations on your scholastic dross:

(i) How can you atempt an analysis on the Middle East without examining ALSO the interests, designs and influence of France, Russia and increasingly China on the region?

(ii) I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the figure of $400 trillion you place on the Rothschild's fortune is at today's values. That makes them worth around ten times more than annual gross GLOBAL product - a patently absurd claim.

For the benefit of the not so well informed, Inside Job's mentor, Lyndon LaRouche, is an avowed Nazi sympathiser (indeed he helped smuggle SS war criminals into the US after WWII), convicted fraudster and sometime mental patient whose views on the British Royal Family are not too dis-similar to those of one, David Icke (yes, that nutter who believes they morph into lizards).

LaRouche is also suspected by many to have been complicit in the recent murder of a young British Jew who was misled into attending a summer school at his 'Schiller Institute' thinking it was some sort of humanitarian organisation.

You have been warned...
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Leiff
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher Wrote:

'(i) How can you atempt an analysis on the Middle East without examining ALSO the interests, designs and influence of France, Russia and increasingly China on the region?

(ii) I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the figure of $400 trillion you place on the Rothschild's fortune is at today's values. That makes them worth around ten times more than annual gross GLOBAL product - a patently absurd claim.'

What is your take on the influence of France, Russia and China on the region?

What is your best guess at the Rothschild's fortune at today's values?
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insidejob
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:20 am    Post subject: Comments Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments. Alternative analysis and correcting factual inaccuracies welcome.

Questioning the figure of $400 trillion as the Rothschilds’ wealth (and the Rockefeller’s wealth) is perfectly valid. My only source is Robert Gaylon Ross Sr (he wrote ‘Who’s who of the Elite) and, admittedly I did no further research on this. But this is why I said the figure was estimated. The figure may be wrong but it doesn’t invalidate the proposition that the family is among the most wealthy on Earth.

Your observations about La Rouche is more troubling and I’ll check out what you say. But La Rouche isn’t the only source for George Schultz or the power and aims of international bankers. Also, troubling it that Left analysts leave the question of ‘who is the most influential in the ruling class’ to people usually on the Right.

There is a third agenda in the Middle East, which is Blair-Bush and their bosses don’t get their way on any agenda. This is partly dependent on France, China and Russia. The involvement of China and Russia are needed to make the conflict truly global – they have defence treaties with Iran and Syria. Critical will be the political and class and senior government administrators in the US and the UK, some of whom, may, indeed, regard the neo-Cons as the crazies. Let’s hope the people wake up to the threat and force their hand.

Pincher,
Not sure what 'scholastic dross' means. But let's not pretend that a couple of possibly wayward remarks invalidate the whole analysis.

My analysis is speculation. It may have no relationship to the plans of the elite. Time will tell. What is clear, is that most people in the world look at what is happening in Lebanon and what the elite are saying and conclude it makes no sense. Most people reading the most important points from Blair's speech will wonder what he's on about. Something else is going on. But my speculation is based on evidence (the research has really been done by other people).

I'll check out some the the links. I would, though, thoroughly recommend The Money Masters and www.takingaim.info

insidejob
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject: Lyndon LaRouche Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
Inside Job, it seems you really have been 'inside' - inside the Schiller Institute that is. Looks like you've lifted your entire post from EIR. It is about as 'educational' as a Josef Goebbels lecture (whose style your mentor Lyndon, no doubt, has taught you to emulate at his summer camp).

For the benefit of the not so well informed, Inside Job's mentor, Lyndon LaRouche, is an avowed Nazi sympathiser (indeed he helped smuggle SS war criminals into the US after WWII), convicted fraudster and sometime mental patient whose views on the British Royal Family are not too dis-similar to those of one, David Icke (yes, that nutter who believes they morph into lizards).

LaRouche is also suspected by many to have been complicit in the recent murder of a young British Jew who was misled into attending a summer school at his 'Schiller Institute' thinking it was some sort of humanitarian organisation.

You have been warned...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Lyndon_LaRouche
POLITICAL VIEWS OF LYNDON LAROUCHE
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fascism
According to LaRouche, the first fascist state was France under Napoleon Bonaparte. European oligarchical forces, he claims, intervened in the French Revolution to prevent it from becoming a republican, American-style revolution, and steered it instead toward becoming a bloodbath followed by a dictatorship. LaRouche calls this the beginning of modern synarchism, a revival of feudal-Venetian methods.

Most contemporary definitions of fascism emphasize components such as racism, chauvinism, and authoritarianism. LaRouche, however, points to a specific economic policy as the foundation of fascism: it is a situation where the financial system has become insolvent, and rather than put it through a bankruptcy reorganization, the ruling powers attempt to prop it up by cannibalizng the workforce through radical austerity and forced-labor policies. LaRouche identifies these policies particularly with German finance minister Hjalmar Schacht, whom LaRouche considers to be instrumental in bringing Adolf Hitler to power. With the collapse of the Bretton Woods system in 1972, LaRouche warned that key financial institutions of the world were committed to a revival of Schacht's policies, first in the form of intensified exploitation of the Third World, and increasingly with respect to the economic policies of the more wealthy nations toward their own populations.

LaRouche is frequently described by left-wing writers and orators as a fascist. Journalist Dennis King used this thesis in the title of his book Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism.

Fascism is a difficult word to define, and has been debased since World War II by its frequent use of a term of general abuse. LaRouche himself frequently describes his enemies as fascists or proto-fascists.

Most early definitions of fascism agreed on a number of elements: nationalism, militarism, contempt for democracy, the advocacy of some form of authoritarian rule, and economic corporatism. Organizationally, fascist movements are characterized by the use or advocacy of violence, lack of internal democracy and regimentation in the service of charismatic personal leadership. Racism, and specifically anti-Semitism, are often characteristics of fascists and fascist parties, but are generally not held to be essential elements of fascism.

LaRouche does not openly advocate American nationalism or militarism. Operation Mop-Up, which consisted of violent physical attacks on left-wing meetings, is the genesis of most accusations of LaRouche being a fascist; however, the LaRouche network has not engaged in physical violence against its political opponents since the 1970s. In fact, the LaRouche movement has opposed most recent U.S. military actions, including both invasions of Iraq, the bombing of Yugoslavia, and attacks on Grenada and Panama.

The perceived abusive and demagogic nature of his political speech also leads to him being accused of being a fascist.

Since the 1980s, a new set of theories about fascism has gained attention in academia. These include the work of Roger Griffin (fascism as a right-wing populist movement calling for heroic rebirth - palingenesis) and Emilio Gentile (the sacralization of politics). Using these and related theories, critics such as Chip Berlet and Matthew N. Lyons have described LaRouche as a neofascist.

According to Berlet and Lyons:
"Though often dismissed as a bizarre political cult, the LaRouche organization and its various front groups are a fascist movement whose pronouncements echo elements of Nazi ideology....Beginning in the 1970s, the LaRouchites combined populist antielitism with attacks on leftists, environmentalists, feminists, gay men and lesbians, and organized labor. They advocated a dictatorship in which a 'humanist' elite would rule on behalf of industrial capitalists. They developed an idiosyncratic, coded variation on the Illuminati Freemason and Jewish banker conspiracy theories. Their views, though exotic, were internally consistent and rooted in right-wing populist traditions."
Berlet & Lyons, Right-Wing Populism in America, p. 273.[2]
Several critics of LaRouche argue that his ideas about economics are not original and are similar to the policies of Germany under Bismarck; and the corporatism of Italy under Benito Mussolini, Spain under Francisco Franco, and Portugal under Antonio Salazar.Wohlfort

According to research conducted by journalist Dennis King, LaRouche developed an intense interest in fascism in the 1970s, and began to adopt some of its slogans and practices, while maintaining an outward stance of anti-fascism. King generally claims that LaRouche's public statements do not reflect his actual views.[6]

As for moving from the left to the right, historically a number of fascists started out as socialists, and critics argue this is the case with LaRouche.


http://www.answers.com/topic/lyndon-larouche
ANSWERS.COM
Although LaRouche has no formal qualifications, he has written extensively on economic, scientific, political, and cultural topics as part of his political views. Critics regard him as a conspiracy theorist, crackpot, attention-seeker and political extremist, while Chip Berlet, Dennis King, and others have described him as a fascist, a cult leader, and an anti-Semite. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] He has also been labelled an "unrepentant Marxist-Leninist" by Lt.Gen. Daniel O. Graham, former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, along with other high-ranking U.S. intelligence officers. [2]. He denies all of these characterizations. His followers regard him as a brilliant individual who has been unfairly persecuted for political reasons. According to a LaRouche publication, the Executive Intelligence Review, the late former U.S. Senator and Democratic presidential aspirant Eugene McCarthy called LaRouche "a man who has brought Plato and Schiller back into politics -- and was sent to jail for it."[3]

LaRouche has run for the Democratic nomination for President in every election year since 1980, including in 1992 while he was in prison, a record of eight attempts. Generally, electoral support for the LaRouche Movement has been inconsequential, despite the fact that LaRouche has received some support in Democratic presidential primaries; the zenith of electoral support for LaRouche's movement may have been the 1986 Democratic Party primary in Illinois, in which two of his followers were nominated for statewide office.

LaRouche was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy, mail fraud, and tax code violations, but continued his political activities from behind bars until his release in 1994 on parole.
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Dr Doom
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leiff wrote:

(ii) I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the figure of $400 trillion you place on the Rothschild's fortune is at today's values. That makes them worth around ten times more than annual gross GLOBAL product - a patently absurd claim.'


Putting a number on their wealth is really neither here nor there.

The point is that there are mountains of evidence indicating they
are the wealthiest family in the world bar none.

I was shocked the first time I saw that film,
having never really heard anything much
about the Rothschilds before that.

Given the fact that they legally control (own) entire monetary systems,
they could in theory print a gazillion dollars, and bury it in a hole somewhere.

Admittedly if they tried to spend that much money it would
totally * up everything. And people might start asking
questions, which they don't want.

But then again sometimes they * everything up on purpose, and blame
it on someone else, like with german hyperinflation pre-ww2.
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Pincher
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It comes as something of a surprise that not only am I not banned but that I am also canvassed for my opinions - good to see there are still a few 'lovers of truth' out there.

First of all a word of caution to all you conspiracy theorists out there - much of your 'research' appears to be done on sites that are absurdly Judophobic and anti-semitic. Almost all of it is complete garbage (as one might expect from Neo-nazi organisations).

Lets talk about the Rothschilds for instance. Much of what is circulated today about this banking dynasty was churned out by the Goebbels propaganda machine. So obsessed was he by the family that he even commissioned two full length feature films on them ('Der ewige Jude' and 'Die Rothschilds') to justify the Nazi's looting of their art collection.

Now on to the myth of the Rothschild's wealth. Firstly it must be understood that the Rothschilds are not a single family (and haven't been for nearly 250 years) but disparate clans of different nationalities, the majority of whom rarely inter-act. Virtually the only thing that they hold in common is the family name.

Forbes Magazine's 'Rich List' is regarded as the leading authority on the net worth of the world's wealthiest. In its latest list of the world's billionaires (746 in all) not a single individual bearing the name 'Rothschild' makes it on to the list. Not one.

For those who are interested the world's wealthiest family is currently the Waltons. No, not the shoeless hick family of the depression but the Walmart Dynasty. Combined worth is c.$80 billion (ie less than 1% of US GDP - make a note Dr Doom and other inumerates).

I'll tell you about France, Russia and China some other time...
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Dr Doom
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:

It comes as something of a surprise that not only am I not banned but that I am also canvassed for my opinions - good to see there are still a few 'lovers of truth' out there.

First of all a word of caution to all you conspiracy theorists out there - much of your 'research' appears to be done on sites that are absurdly Judophobic and anti-semitic. Almost all of it is complete garbage (as one might expect from Neo-nazi organisations).


I take your point, it's very easy to be tagged as a "racist" or an "anti-semite" if you talk of a Jewish Conspiracy to take over the world.


Quote:

Lets talk about the Rothschilds for instance. Much of what is circulated today about this banking dynasty was churned out by the Goebbels propaganda machine. So obsessed was he by the family that he even commissioned two full length feature films on them ('Der ewige Jude' and 'Die Rothschilds') to justify the Nazi's looting of their art collection.


Yes you are right. Does that mean everything Goebbels said was completely wrong?
Why was it so powerful if it had absolutely no basis in fact?

Needless to say I do not agree with what Hitler did to the Jews.



Quote:

Now on to the myth of the Rothschild's wealth. Firstly it must be understood that the Rothschilds are not a single family (and haven't been for nearly 250 years) but disparate clans of different nationalities, the majority of whom rarely inter-act. Virtually the only thing that they hold in common is the family name.


As far as I remember there is evidence of
interbreeding between these "disparate clans".

These clans also cooperate with each other to further their influence.


Quote:

Forbes Magazine's 'Rich List' is regarded as the leading authority on the net worth of the world's wealthiest. In its latest list of the world's billionaires (746 in all) not a single individual bearing the name 'Rothschild' makes it on to the list. Not one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayer_Amschel_Rothschild

The founder of the Rothschild family (see link)

In 2005, he was ranked 7th on the Forbes magazine list of the The Twenty Most Influential Businessmen Of All Time

The Rothschild family really isn't about individual egos, and giving big numbers to forbes magazine so people will worship them. They're smarter than that.

Obviously they figured some time ago that having huge wealth generally attracted a lot of criticism, from everywhere. They made a decision that even though they may be the wealthiest family in the world, they would foster the perception that their standing had diminished, when in fact it probably hasn't.

Same with the Rockefellers, unless you really go digging it's quite difficult to get much information about how the Rockefellers made it.


Quote:

For those who are interested the world's wealthiest family is currently the Waltons. No, not the shoeless hick family of the depression but the Walmart Dynasty. Combined worth is c.$80 billion (ie less than 1% of US GDP - make a note Dr Doom and other inumerates).

I'll tell you about France, Russia and China some other time...


You shouldn't accept anything at face value.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shouldn't accept things at face value Dr Doom? Sorry but YOU are the one who is swallowing whole and the warped propaganda of fanatics, bigots and nutcases.

I would advise you to lay off the internet for a bit and read some BOOKS by recognised historians, economists and political analysts. Once you've built up your knowledge you can then start to become a little more critical and 'top up' from other sources (remembering always to have the salt cellar at the ready).

Your points in reverse order:

1) The Walton family fortune is easy to assess as it is largely made up of stock in a public company - THEIR OWN.

2) I am surprised MAR is only ranked 7th by Forbes(do the Medici's appear on the list at all?)! Remember that this list is an historic measure (MAR died nearly 200 years ago) of INFLUENCE not wealth and that by the end of the 19th century the Rothschilds were being eclipsed by the great Anglo-American merchant banks (Morgans, Barings, Browns etc).

3) Funny that you seem to 'remember' the Rothschild clans 'inter breeding.' Up until a few hours ago you thought of them as a single nuclear unit until SOMEONE enlightened you.

4) Glad to hear that you don't agree with what Hitler did to the Jews. I can guarantee though, that if you continue to rely on the current sites you vist for your information you'll become a holocaust denier at the very least.

5) Fair question about Mr Goebbels so here's a famous quote of his -

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Empirically, he is correct.
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Alek
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
I shouldn't accept things at face value Dr Doom? Sorry but YOU are the one who is swallowing whole and the warped propaganda of fanatics, bigots and nutcases.

I would advise you to lay off the internet for a bit and read some BOOKS by recognised historians, economists and political analysts. Once you've built up your knowledge you can then start to become a little more critical and 'top up' from other sources (remembering always to have the salt cellar at the ready).



I would advise you to lay off the personal attacks, and hyperbolic accusations of bigotry, as you might obtain more credibility that way.

I've studied the New World Order for some eleven years now, with an emphasis on fiat money/fractional reserve banking regimes. There is no question in my mind that not only are the Rothschild's the most wealthy family in the history of the world, but that they are the most despotic, despicable, and murderous people in the world, sitting at the throne of the globalist elite.

Rothschild biographer Frederic Morton estimated their wealth to be some $6 billion near the middle of the 19th century. Depending on what rate you use to discount their fortune, they are probably worth anywhere from $2 to $500 trillion US dollars. Given that the international bankers long ago learned how to use the taxpayers of wealthy nations to subsidize their losses, it's likely their fortune is vastly underestimated. They have perfected the science of risk-free "investing". It's also obvious to me that the super rich do not pay taxes. Instead, they use foundations and trusts, managed by their agents, to control wealth they do not own. John D. Rockefeller once said "I want to own nothing and control everything", and indeed this seems to have been his philosophy. If you believe that these families' legendary "philanthropy" (giving their money away to foundations they directly control) is just what it seems, then I would point out that credulity is not a virtue.

Quote:


Your points in reverse order:

1) The Walton family fortune is easy to assess as it is largely made up of stock in a public company - THEIR OWN.



The Walton family fortune in retail sales is a pittance when compared to the profits of contemporary banking. Even software, the best business other than the money business has left Bill Gates a relative pauper compared to the Rothschild and Rockefeller banking dynasties.

Quote:


2) I am surprised MAR is only ranked 7th by Forbes(do the Medici's appear on the list at all?)! Remember that this list is an historic measure (MAR died nearly 200 years ago) of INFLUENCE not wealth and that by the end of the 19th century the Rothschilds were being eclipsed by the great Anglo-American merchant banks (Morgans, Barings, Browns etc).



The Medici family were the fathers of contemporary fractional reserve banking, improving on the goldsmiths over four centuries ago, and were certainly among the world's wealthiest and most influential families. In contrast, at the turn of the 20th century the Rothschild dynasty began its designs on the world by moving their vast fortunes underground. Banks like Morgan and Warburg far from eclipsed the Rothschilds, they were their agents! As it has been said, the Rothschilds are content to let legend be their public relations.

Quote:


3) Funny that you seem to 'remember' the Rothschild clans 'inter breeding.' Up until a few hours ago you thought of them as a single nuclear unit until SOMEONE enlightened you.



The Rothschilds are thick as thieves. They are a misogynistic patriarchy run currently by Sir Evelyn. To view their impact on the world as anything other than a monolith is folly.

Quote:


4) Glad to hear that you don't agree with what Hitler did to the Jews. I can guarantee though, that if you continue to rely on the current sites you vist for your information you'll become a holocaust denier at the very least.

5) Fair question about Mr Goebbels so here's a famous quote of his -

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Empirically, he is correct.


I would like to address this notion that criticism of the New World Order, the modern banking system, or Israel and the Zionist movement is somehow anti-semitic. First, a short history of Zionism is in order. Theodore Herzl founded the World Zionist Congress at the turn of the 20th century, 1897, with the full financial and political backing of the house of Rothschild. They are known today as the World Zionist Organization (WZO). The purpose of this organization of course, was to lobby support for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Years later in 1917, formal British support for the creation of such a homeland was codified by the Arthur James Balfour declaration which was addressed personally to Lord (Walter) Rothschild. In effect this was nothing more than a decree by Britain to promise the Zionists land which was not theirs, Palestine. Of course not until World War II and the Holocaust, the brutal murder of over six million jews, was there sufficient political will to estabish the jewish homeland of Israel, which was annexed by the League of Nations in 1948.

It is at this point important to point out that unlike jewish ethnicity or faith, contemporary zionism is a political movement. It has specific political goals which have had substantial negative effects in the world. This isn't to say that the concept of zionism is without merit. Jews have a historical claim on Israel, as do many others who aren't jewish. However, in my mind this does not justify a jewish nation state, let alone the racist, warmongering police state hellhole that is modern Israel. I would further point out that there are a number of jews who do not support Israel, and a number of Zionists who do not recognize this iteration of "Zionism" as such. Anti-semitism serves no purpose, as the average jew is no more aware of the diabolic influence of the House of Rothschild than the average neo-con is aware of the influence of the House of Rockefeller in the US. It isn't going to be blind hatred and narrow-mindedness that is going to solve the problems in the world. But by the same token, I will not allow criticism of Israel and Zionism to be co-opted by accusations of anti-semitism. Zionism is a political movement, created by the most heinous criminals in the world, and it deserves nothing but contempt. Unfortunately, due to ignorance, it may be the jewish people of Israel who end up suffering the most on the sacrificial altar of the Rothschilds - they who owe no allegiance to ethnicity, faith, or nationality, but only gain.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: The Rothchilds Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
I shouldn't accept things at face value Dr Doom? Sorry but YOU are the one who is swallowing whole and the warped propaganda of fanatics, bigots and nutcases.

I would advise you to lay off the internet for a bit and read some BOOKS by recognised historians, economists and political analysts. Once you've built up your knowledge you can then start to become a little more critical and 'top up' from other sources (remembering always to have the salt cellar at the ready).

5) Fair question about Mr Goebbels so here's a famous quote of his -

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Empirically, he is correct.


When the founder of JP Morgan died, it was found that much of his company was owned by the Rothchilds. Lately, it was found that when Putin jailed Russia's richest business tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the main owner of oil giant YUKOS, much of the shares passed to - you guessed it - one of the Rothchilds.

But it seems that recognised historian, Niall Ferguson and The Observer are peddling fascist, Goebbels lies about the Rothchilds...

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0140286624/702-1915040-4441614?v=produ ct-description&n=916520
House Of Rothschild The World Banker 1849 To 1999 (Paperback)
by Niall Ferguson

From Amazon.com
Continuing the sweeping narrative that he began with The House of Rothschild: Money's Prophets, 1798-1848, Oxford University historian Niall Ferguson conjures up a world in which widespread change and utter uncertainty held sway in the place of carefully ordered dynasties and universally observed mores. In the aftermath of the Napoleonic revolution, European Jews had been able to move within dominant societies somewhat more freely. Of no family was this more true than the Rothschilds, whose branches lived in Germany, France, Austria, and England, and whose vast financial empire enabled them to act as diplomats and power brokers throughout the world. Their influence was enormous. When Spain wanted to build a railroad, its ministers approached the House of Rothschild. When the Confederate States of America sought to be recognized by the states of Europe, it sought--unsuccessfully--the Rothschilds' support. When Ferdinand de Lesseps broke ground for the Panama Canal and Cecil Rhodes broke ground for his vast diamond and gold mines in South Africa, Rothschild funds backed them.
Until the 1920s, Ferguson demonstrates, there was almost no economic, technological, or political development in Europe in which the House of Rothschild did not play some role. The rise of nationalist and national socialist movements and of official anti-Semitism, coupled with the rise in the Jazz Age of a new generation of Rothschilds that cared more for the good life than for the hard work of maintaining their holdings, led to a substantial decline in the family's authority and wealth. But even today, as Ferguson writes in this richly detailed but eminently readable history, the Rothschilds figure in European finance, continuing a legacy that Ferguson's two volumes trace from the Middle Ages to the new millennium. --Gregory McNamee --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.


Ferguson notes that the Rothchild has lost much of their wealth. Let's turn to The Observer...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1833457,00.html
Family affairs

The Astor dynasty returned to the headlines last week when 104-year-old Brooke Astor, society grande dame, was said to be living in squalor in New York. But this was by no means the first scandal to rock the Astors. Like many of the world's great dynasties, they have discovered that a family fortune comes at a price. Rob Sharp and David Smith reports...

Rob Sharp and David Smith
Sunday July 30, 2006
The Observer

...The Rothchilds

What they do: Banking and wine-making.

Founding father: Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812).

How he made his money: The 18th-century Frankfurt coins and medals business. He sent his five sons abroad to establish banks in five European capitals.

Key descendants: Baron Philippe de Rothschild, racing car driver and wine grower; Caroline de Rothschild, socialite; Sir Evelyn de Rothschild, banker; Lionel de Rothschild, politician; Ferdinand de Rothschild, politician and art collector; Jacob Rothschild, banker and philanthropist; Benjamin de Rothschild, banker and wine-maker.

What they said: 'The man who controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply.' (Nathan de Rothschild)

What others said: 'The pride of Israel ... before whose moneybox kings and emperors humbly bow.' (A German contemporary on Mayer Rothschild)

Highlight: Smuggling gold coins across the English Channel to finance the Duke of Wellington's advance through France to his final triumph at Waterloo over Napoleon.

Scandal: Some conspiracy theorists portray the family as one of 13 dynastic bloodlines that secretly rule the world. Among their number is David Icke, who claimed the Rothschilds are really reptilian humanoids.

Dynasty mergers: The 'dream' wedding of 2003 saw Kate Rothschild marry Ben Goldsmith, who is set to inherit his family's fortune. Moses von Schaffhausen, a goldsmith by trade, founded the Goldschmidt dynasty in the last years of the 16th century in Nuremberg.

Current star: David de Rothschild, head of the French financial dynasty, which controls NM Rothschild, one of the oldest merchant banks in the City.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alek,

i) So you've 'been studying' the New World Order for eleven years eh? Takes us back to the time when all the neo Nazi's, anti Zionists, anti masonic, fundamentalist Christians started to flood the internet with their nonsense. Bit of a coincidence don't you think? Be honest, how many texts by senior academics at recognised universities have you read on the subject?

ii) I take it that you have read Morton's book as a primary text, that the estimate he places on the Rothschild fortune is at mid 19th century values and that the author has some background in finance/economics - can you guarantee all that?

Let's assume for the sake of argument that the author's $6 billion dollar estimate of Rothschilds' mid 19th century net worth is accurate. That would translate into c. $500 billion at today's prices - an enormous sum. But remember that:

a) this is just 0.1% (one thousandth) of the upper (lunatic) estimate of today's Rothschild fortune.

b) this fortune was split between 5 different branches of the family in Germany, France, Britain, Austria and Italy all of which were going into their third generation at this time (leaving each branch therefore with a fortune roughly comparable to that enjoyed by the Waltons today).

iii) I geddit - when 'WASPS' like the Gates' put their money into trust it all goes on sick kids in Africa but when 'YIDS' like the Rothschilds put money into trust it all goes on bombs to blow Muslim kids to bits... but of course you're not anti semitic you're just anti Zionist! Silly me!

iv) 'The Walton's fortune in retail sales (sic) is a mere pittance when compared to the profits in contemporary banking...' I'll overlook your rather garbled comparison between total share value ('fortune in retail sales') and total dividends ('profits') and do a like-for-like comparison between Walmart's profits and those of the world's best performing banks last year (Forbes data).

Well, only 3 banks in the world were more profitable than Walmart ($11 billion+) in 2005 - CitiGroup ($24 billion+), Bank of America ($16 billion+) & HSBC Group ($12 billion+).

And no bank performed better than oil giant Exxon Mobile ($36 billion+). Oil majors accounted for no fewer than 6 out of ten of the worlds most profitable companies with only two banks making it onto the list. Microsoft (with it's 'pauper' chairman) was the only software company.

Curiously, no bank bearing The Rothschild imprint could be found on the list of the world's 2,000 biggest public companies, nor on a list containing the names of the World's top 300 privately owned companies, nor even on specialist banking lists.

That is because the five or so banks with the Rothschild monicker have profits running into tens and hundreds of millions rather than billions and tens of billions.

v) '...the Rothschilds began moving their fortune underground' (?) Whatever do you mean by this statement - were they stuffing it into mattresses?

vi)'...misogynistic patriarchy...thick as thieves...' Yes, that is usually the way with both aristocratic and business dynasties.

vii)''...run currently by Sir Evelyn.' New one on me - never heard of Knights outranking Barons before.

I'll leave your treatise on the New World Order and Zionism for another post except to say this:

Zionism split the Rothschild dynasty - some were adherants, others vigorously opposed it - the very fact that you make no reference to this family schism is telling.

Your conflation of the New World Order and the Rothschild world view is equally intriguing. The NWO is generally accepted as an Anglo-Saxon masonic ideal - world government in the hands of an 'Anglospheric elite' (American east coast WASPS with a few British aristo's thrown in). No place at the top table for Jews.

You fail to grasp that modern freemasonry, particularly modern European freemasonry, eg The Grand Orient (supposedly inspired by the Illuminati) was the birthplace of modern anti semitism. Jews were forbidden from joining most European lodges until the late 19th century. Only in Britain were they tolerated.

Continental European masonry was also politcally radical. anti clerical and often atheistic (in stark contrast to the English and Ancient Scottish Rite which was mercantalist and demanded acknowledgement of 'The Great Architect').

The myth of the Rothschilds, an essentially 19th century dynasty in slow decline since the early 20th century, has been largely achieved by a wilful distortion of the history of modern freemasonry, revised until it appears as an intrinsically Jewish inspired movement. Indeed, there are even accounts circulating on the internet that propose Mayer Amschel Rothschild as the real founder of The Illuminati - I kid ye not.

Personally, I incline more to the Ickean view that it was the Rothschilds and not the British Royal family that were the original Lizard Humanoids.


Last edited by Pincher on Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dr Doom
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Curiously no bank bearing The Rothschild imprint could be found on the list of the world's 2,000 biggest public companies, nor on a list containing the names of the World's top 300 privately owned companies, nor even on specialist banking lists.

That is because the five or so banks with the Rothschild monicker have profits running into tens and hundreds of millions rather than billions and tens of billions.


There is no way of forcing them to give a full and accurate
disclosure of what profits they are making. They give the financial
press whatever numbers they want.

Transparency is generally detrimental to profits.


Quote:
v) '...the Rothschilds began moving their fortune underground' (?)
Whatever do you mean by this statement - were they stuffing it into mattresses?


Yes exactly.


Even if you are right and Rothschild no longer have the same influence.

There are definitely elites manipulating our monetary system,
intent on using that power to force us all into feudal slavery.

It is self-evident.



Quote:
Zionism split the Rothschild dynasty - some were adherants, others vigorously opposed it - the very fact that you make no reference to this family schism is telling.


Interesting, do you have a source?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr Doom,

1) Reports and accounts for three of the prinicpal Rothschild banks are available on line.

2) Stuffing money into mattresses ensures that it loses value...so why the 'exactly?' Are you making the absurd claim that the road to self impoverishment is also the road to global domination?

3) I'll get your source over the w/e. I've just about had enough of this nonsense now - I am beginning to regret ever coming on here.

Regards,

Your friendly neighbourhood Lizard Humanoid
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:

2) Stuffing money into mattresses ensures that it loses value...so why the 'exactly?' Are you making the absurd claim that the road to self impoverishment is also the road to global domination?


The whole idea behind putting money (ideally gold rather than paper), into secret underground vaults, is so that it cannot be audited by anyone. And hence less chance of being stolen, taxed, misappropriated.

Why do you think paper money loses its value over time? The definition of inflation is an increase in the money supply, and it is one of a number of ways these elites transfer wealth from the masses to themselves.

What they do is beyond a crime. It's quite something to get your head around simply because of the sheer audacity of it, but it is very real.

Do you dispute that our banking system is run by elites, or are you just saying it's not the Rothschilds running the show?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JHR wrote:
kbo234

Hope you don't mind me asking but why the reference to being Jewish?

Did you mean to imply that he may have Zionist affiliations?

Bernard Lewis, before he went to Princeton, taught Near and Middle Eastern History at SOAS. He was one of about half-a-dozen Jews there who were also extremely nasty Zionists (there were, of course, other Jews there who weren't and were quite nice people actually). Lewis's nastiness is probably partly to do with his character and largely to do with his extreme and militant Zionism.

As an aside, one of the things he did was to publish an article in Encounter (now defunct) in which he "proved" that Islam was inherently racist, using as his text Burton's translation of "A Thousand and One Nights" - a famous piece of Abbasid soft-pornography. Normally, if an academic pulled a stunt like that he'd be the laughing stock of his peers; but it would seem people were in awe of Lewis, and there were no come-backs.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
Alek,

i) So you've 'been studying' the New World Order for eleven years eh? Takes us back to the time when all the neo Nazi's, anti Zionists, anti masonic, fundamentalist Christians started to flood the internet with their nonsense. Bit of a coincidence don't you think? Be honest, how many texts by senior academics at recognised universities have you read on the subject?



Why would I care what "senior academics" have to say? Our entire educational system is compromised. If I had the power of unlimited money, the first thing I would do is fund the endowments of schools, and influence the curriculum so as to dumb down the population and keep them blissfully ignorant about certain topics. Monetary policy was a hot issue in the early 20th century, before the passage of the Federal Reserve act. Now, banking and monetary policy are arcane topics, the discussion of these left to specialized "experts". Yet, I believe that there isn't a more important issue than the issue of who controls our money and how.

Quote:


ii) I take it that you have read Morton's book as a primary text, that the estimate he places on the Rothschild fortune is at mid 19th century values and that the author has some background in finance/economics - can you guarantee all that?



No, I haven't read the biography, and I can't guarantee any of that. But I do understand the fraud which is fractional reserve banking, and the immense profits available to those who control it. I also understand the so-called Rothschild formula in which the Hegelian dialectic is employed for profit. Perhaps the most famous example of this in history is when Nathan Rothschild used his advance knowledge of Wellington's victory over Napoleon at Waterloo to manipulate the British Consol market and obtain control over the Bank of England.

Quote:


Let's assume for the sake of argument that the author's $6 billion dollar estimate of Rothschilds' mid 19th century net worth is accurate. That would translate into c. $500 billion at today's prices - an enormous sum. But remember that:



No, it wouldn't necessarily translate into that. It all depends on whatever discount rate you wish to apply to the NPV equation. Your "translation" of $500B implies a discount rate of less than 3%, which is in my estimation at the low end of likelyhood considering the Rothschild business, and their particular business model. Granted there are offsetting factors, such as the law of diminishing returns as well as the fact that when your wealth starts to approach the GDP of the developed world, cannabalism is inevitable.

Quote:


a) this is just 0.1% (one thousandth) of the upper (lunatic) estimate of today's Rothschild fortune.



These estimates aren't lunacy, they're an example of the incredible power of wealth compounded.

Quote:


b) this fortune was split between 5 different branches of the family in Germany, France, Britain, Austria and Italy all of which were going into their third generation at this time (leaving each branch therefore with a fortune roughly comparable to that enjoyed by the Waltons today).



Do you have a source for this? Everything I've read indicates, as I posted before, that the Rothschild dynasty is a rigid misogynistic patriarchy. This means that one male successor is chosen, and he controls the fortune of the entire family. That would be the logical way to preserve a dynasty, which is obviously what we have here. The Walton family isn't analogus either in scope, or visibility.

Quote:


iii) I geddit - when 'WASPS' like the Gates' put their money into trust it all goes on sick kids in Africa but when 'YIDS' like the Rothschilds put money into trust it all goes on bombs to blow Muslim kids to bits... but of course you're not anti semitic you're just anti Zionist! Silly me!



Actually, it's funny you mention Gates. Nouveau-riche like Bill Gates, and Warren Buffett have, like all wealthy people do, started to protect their assets by disowning them. What is interesting about them is that they are both neo-malthusians who have a remarkable interest in population control. I find this interest and their lovingly altruistic sponsorship of third world vaccination programs to be conflicting, to say the least. I'm more than a little skeptical of what is in those vaccines.

I will continue to criticize the patrons of the murderous regime of Israel, the Rothschilds, and expose their crimes where I see them. I will continue to point out the hypocrisy of people like Gates, Buffett, Ted Turner, and other probable mass-murderers. I will continue to point out that just because the biggest political movement (Zionism) that purports to represent jews is utterly corrupt, contemptuous, and rotten to the core, this doesn't justify racism or hatred.

Quote:


iv) 'The Walton's fortune in retail sales (sic) is a mere pittance when compared to the profits in contemporary banking...' I'll overlook your rather garbled comparison between total share value ('fortune in retail sales') and total dividends ('profits') and do a like-for-like comparison between Walmart's profits and those of the world's best performing banks last year (Forbes data).



My comparison isn't garbled, it was a general analogy which you apparently misunderstood. The Waltons don't produce anything, they sell. Their fortune is based on sales. The Rothschild fortune is based on manufacturing money out of nothing. Your average five-year-old can recognize that seigniorage is vastly more profitable than sales. I'm not comparing income statements or balance sheets. You don't need to lecture me on equity valuation.

Quote:


Well, only 3 banks in the world were more profitable than Walmart ($11 billion+) in 2005 - CitiGroup ($24 billion+), Bank of America ($16 billion+) & HSBC Group ($12 billion+).

And no bank performed better than oil giant Exxon Mobile ($36 billion+). Oil majors accounted for no fewer than 6 out of ten of the worlds most profitable companies with only two banks making it onto the list. Microsoft (with it's 'pauper' chairman) was the only software company.

Curiously, no bank bearing The Rothschild imprint could be found on the list of the world's 2,000 biggest public companies, nor on a list containing the names of the World's top 300 privately owned companies, nor even on specialist banking lists.



I find their absence on any of these lists to be conspicuous, to say the least. I suppose I should just believe the greatest banking dynasty the world has ever seen simply vanished like flatulence in the wind. They still managed to make it to this short list, however.

Quote:

That is because the five or so banks with the Rothschild monicker have profits running into tens and hundreds of millions rather than billions and tens of billions.


v) '...the Rothschilds began moving their fortune underground' (?) Whatever do you mean by this statement - were they stuffing it into mattresses?



I'm quite sure they weren't stuffing their own depreciating fiat currencies under mattresses. Considering their influence in the London Bullion Marketing Association, it's more likely they were stuffing precious metals under mattresses, if anything. They moved their fortune underground, both literally, and figuratively, probably into large private vaults. As for their interests in the world's most powerful corporations, they sold them to private foundations which their agents control, hence, they don't appear very prominently in Forbes publications.

Quote:


vi)'...misogynistic patriarchy...thick as thieves...' Yes, that is usually the way with both aristocratic and business dynasties.

vii)''...run currently by Sir Evelyn.' New one on me - never heard of Knights outranking Barons before.



Welcome to planet earth, where up is down, right is wrong, everything can be believed, and nothing can be known.

Quote:


I'll leave your treatise on the New World Order and Zionism for another post except to say this:

Zionism split the Rothschild dynasty - some were adherants, others vigorously opposed it - the very fact that you make no reference to this family schism is telling.



I don't find it hard to believe that some in the Rothschild clan are decent people, however, I do find it hard to believe they have any influence, if they exist. What do you find very telling? By pointing out how diabolic this family, the patrons of Zionism are, I must be guilty of hating jewish people?

Quote:


Your conflation of the New World Order and the Rothschild world view is equally intriguing. The NWO is generally accepted as an Anglo-Saxon masonic ideal - world government in the hands of an 'Anglospheric elite' (American east coast WASPS with a few British aristo's thrown in). No place at the top table for Jews.

You fail to grasp that modern freemasonry, particularly modern European freemasonry, eg The Grand Orient (supposedly inspired by the Illuminati) was the birthplace of modern anti semitism. Jews were forbidden from joining most European lodges until the late 19th century. Only in Britain were they tolerated.

Continental European masonry was also politcally radical. anti clerical and often atheistic (in stark contrast to the English and Ancient Scottish Rite which was mercantalist and demanded acknowledgement of 'The Great Architect').

The myth of the Rothschilds, an essentially 19th century dynasty in slow decline since the early 20th century, has been largely achieved by a wilful distortion of the history of modern freemasonry, revised until it appears as an intrinsically Jewish inspired movement. Indeed, there are even accounts circulating on the internet that propose Mayer Amschel Rothschild as the real founder of The Illuminati - I kid ye not.

Personally, I incline more to the Ickean view that it was the Rothschilds and not the British Royal family that were the original Lizard Humanoids.


I haven't conflated anything. Whether the globalist elite are portrayed as jews, masons, satanists, protestants, or lizard men doesn't concern me. One need merely recognize the fact that whatever they are, or whoever they claim to be, their methods are apparent. It's quite obvious to me that these people have no allegiance to anything but gain and power. They will sacrifice anything and anyone on the altar of greed. They want nothing less than a world population reduction of 80% or more, and total absolute despotism.

I assume by your defensive posture, and your constant accusations of anti-semitism, that you are jewish. If so I submit that your abject ignorance of money and power is evidence that the NWO conspiracy is most certainly not a jewish one.
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Pincher
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alek,

You are spouting complete gibberish. It is quite obvious that you and your friend Doctor Doom do not have even an elementary grasp of economics, finance or business practice.

Both of you appear to be innumerate and have little knowledge of history. You think arguing your case is simply writing dense, meaningless prose (much of which is probably cut & pasted from another site) filled with non sequiturs and that winning the debate is simply a matter of having the last word (well you can certainly have it here).

Here are some things I caught you out on:

i) Your absurd attempt to undermine my modern valuation of the Rothschild fortune based on your (fictitious) mid 19th century valuation. Do you know how you to translate historic values into contempoarary ones? You use a measure called the 'retail price index' which is simply a measure of inflation.

Over the last 150 years prices have risen about 8000%. Any GCSE Economics student could tell you that. Don't try and look big in front of your fellow loons by saying there's another way of doing it. There aint.

ii) Even in the days before joint stock companies and limited liability, all companies were required by law to keep public accounts. And banks historically have always been closely regulated. For centuries they have been legally required to maintain minimuml iquidity levels (used to be 28%).

The suggestion that in the 21st century the Rothschilds can keep its accounts secret is just plain stupid.

iii) The idea that simply keeping your gold in underground vaults can do wonders for your net worth is novel. The value of your gold hinges on the bullion market. It goes up if there are more buyers, down if there are more sellers. Gold traditionally has been regarded as a hedge against inflation.

Please don't lie to me and say you knew that.

In case you are wondering about my qualifications. I am a BA in Politics & Philosophy. I was a Registered Representative of the London Stock Exchange and trained in financial consultancy.

More recently I was a business correspondent for a trade title and now run a small b2b publishing company.

Now someone please put me out of my misery and say that you actually believe that the Rothschilds were Lizard Humanoids.

I'll know then that all this has just been a bad dream...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pincher

Not everyone who challenges the accepted view of wealth and money creation promoted by modern economics professors are anti-semites or neo-nazis. I hope you recognise this

Are you familiar with and do you have an opinion on this DVD?

http://www.themoneymasters.com/

It seems to be an accurate history of money and its creation IMO. Are you aware of any factual errors in it?

Thanks for your opinion
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Alek
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
Alek,

You are spouting complete gibberish. It is quite obvious that you and your friend Doctor Doom do not have even an elementary grasp of economics, finance or business practice.

Both of you appear to be innumerate and have little knowledge of history. You think arguing your case is simply writing dense, meaningless prose (much of which is probably cut & pasted from another site) filled with non sequiturs and that winning the debate is simply a matter of having the last word (well you can certainly have it here).

Here are some things I caught you out on:

i) Your absurd attempt to undermine my modern valuation of the Rothschild fortune based on your (fictitious) mid 19th century valuation. Do you know how you to translate historic values into contempoarary ones? You use a measure called the 'retail price index' which is simply a measure of inflation.

Over the last 150 years prices have risen about 8000%. Any GCSE Economics student could tell you that. Don't try and look big in front of your fellow loons by saying there's another way of doing it. There aint.



You haven't offered any evidence that Morton's $6B figure on the Rothschild's net worth in 1850 is incorrect. If you have such evidence, please present it. It is contended that the Rothschilds, like most wealthy families, divest their holdings into financial entities that they do not own, but merely control. This is done to avoid liabilities, taxes and otherwise. As a result, any attempt to estimate what their current net worth is amounts to little more than speculation.

On the other hand, if one were to try to estimate their present worth simply by adjusting their 1850 net worth for inflation, that would be more than a little myopic, especially if you consider that at least some of that fortune was held in fiat currency that they were engaged in debauching! It is unlikely that they held much paper currency, as in this case, what was good for the goose certainly wasn't good for the gander. Given the dearth of information that exists about the Rothschild's finances, the best way to estimate their current fortune is to first estimate an average annual compound rate, and plug this into a present value formula.

Your admission of an 8000% cumulative 150 year rate of inflation is quite curious, I assume that since you used the term "retail price index" that you are referring to the British pound. I am from the US, so I'm more familiar with the consumer and producer price indices. 8000% over 150 years represents a staggering loss of purchasing power for anyone unlucky enough to have saved any substantial portion of their wealth in British pounds. Do you have any idea where this purchasing power went? Assuming a static money supply, and a growing economy, one would see a phenomenon called "disinflation" where prices fall steadily, as more goods and services compete for the same pound over time. Instead, by your own account, we've seen a massive devaulation of currency. This is the direct result of an ongoing tax on the owners of British pounds which has existed since the creation of the Bank of England in 1694. In reality, it represents theft and economic rape by the bankers. I would also point out that it is evident to me that the US CPI and PPI are highly manipulated via Hedonics, a way of rationalizing higher consumer prices by product improvements. The benefits of Hedonics are understated inflation, and lower cost of living adjustments for entitlements. I assume the calculation of your "Retail Price Index" works in the same fashion.

Quote:


ii) Even in the days before joint stock companies and limited liability, all companies were required by law to keep public accounts. And banks historically have always been closely regulated. For centuries they have been legally required to maintain minimuml iquidity levels (used to be 28%).

The suggestion that in the 21st century the Rothschilds can keep its accounts secret is just plain stupid.



The reserve requirement ratio for US banks is set by the Federal Reserve, and is currently 10%. This hasn't changed since the great depression.

In the 21st century, the Rothschilds have no "secret accounts". The only secret is their relationship with the agents who manage their various trusts and foundations on their behalf. They simply don't own anything, they control it. If I can control a private foundation for my personal benefit, which I do, rest assured the Rothschilds can and do.

Quote:


iii) The idea that simply keeping your gold in underground vaults can do wonders for your net worth is novel. The value of your gold hinges on the bullion market. It goes up if there are more buyers, down if there are more sellers. Gold traditionally has been regarded as a hedge against inflation.

Please don't lie to me and say you knew that.



Alongside your profound analysis of the gold market, I have to admit the idea that "gold is regarded as a hedge against inflation" is news to me. I've only maintained a portfolio of precious metals receipts, and physical metals for seven+ years.

Quote:


In case you are wondering about my qualifications. I am a BA in Politics & Philosophy. I was a Registered Representative of the London Stock Exchange and trained in financial consultancy.

More recently I was a business correspondent for a trade title and now run a small b2b publishing company.

Now someone please put me out of my misery and say that you actually believe that the Rothschilds were Lizard Humanoids.

I'll know then that all this has just been a bad dream...


I wasn't really wondering about your qualifications, since you haven't yet said anything requiring qualification.

I wish I could admit that the Rothschilds are lizard people. Unfortunately, I think David Icke functions as a very good disinformation agent, by associating the disturbing truth with comforting lies.
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Dr Doom
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
Alek,

You are spouting complete gibberish. It is quite obvious that you and your friend Doctor Doom do not have even an elementary grasp of economics, finance or business practice.

Both of you appear to be innumerate and have little knowledge of history.
...


In case you are wondering about my qualifications. I have studied Maths, Further Maths, and Economics at A-Level. And got AAB. I also have a degree in software engineering.

I am not innumerate by any stretch of the imagination. You could do your credibility a favour and refrain from resorting to these baseless personal attacks.



Quote:

Over the last 150 years prices have risen about 8000%. Any GCSE Economics student could tell you that. Don't try and look big in front of your fellow loons by saying there's another way of doing it. There aint.


I still don't really understand what you're getting at here. You said using that method the Rothschild could be worth $500bn.
It is still extremely conspicuous that they have managed to keep such a low-profile, especially given the mountain of dodgy Rothschild quotes that can be found in the history-books.


Quote:

ii) Even in the days before joint stock companies and limited liability, all companies were required by law to keep public accounts. And banks historically have always been closely regulated. For centuries they have been legally required to maintain minimuml iquidity levels (used to be 28%).

The suggestion that in the 21st century the Rothschilds can keep its accounts secret is just plain stupid.


How naive are you? There is a whole industry set up dedicated to hiding assets, cooking books, minimising tax liability etc. It's called accountancy / financial services.

Why do you think the super-rich put their money into offshore-trusts?

AFAIK, the central banks of the world, have never had their accounts fully audited. Which if you watch the aforementioned film, is the real heart of where the manipulation / fraud takes place.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Russian view of conflict Reply with quote

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/3333ivashov.html
This article appears in the August 18, 2006 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.
DOCUMENTATION
The Parties to the Israel-Lebanon Conflict
by L.G. Ivashov, General Colonel,
Vice President of the Academy of Geopolitical Studies

The article excerpted here appeared in Russian on the Marketing and Consulting Information and Analysis Agency website (www.iamik.ru), Aug. 7, 2006. The translation was done by EIR. See also Rachel Douglas's introduction.

The recently flaring Israel-Lebanon conflict is looking more and more ominous, pulling into its bloody vortex practically the entire world community. Fewer and fewer people remain, who blindly believe that the cause of the conflict is to be found in the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, and the Israeli Army's attempt to save their lives.

Based on analysis of the unfolding military events, it may be stated that:
- the Israeli armed forces' operation was planned in advance;
- it is multipurpose, and goes far beyond the objective of destroying the Hezbollah movement.
- In order to answer the question of what is going on in the Middle East, it is important to identify the main parties behind the Israeli armed forces' operation, their purposes in the operation, and their desired result.

It is absolutely obvious, that Israel would not have dared launch such large-scale operations against Washington's wishes, and without the protection and assistance of the USA. A third party with an interest in the operation is Great Britain (in the person of T. Blair and his team), as a loyal and reliable U.S. ally, as well as a major player in political games in the Greater Middle East.

Nonetheless, these three players are not the primary ones in organizing this bloody drama. In our view, the primary player is the politically shadowy world financial oligarchy, which is working steadily and persistently to change the political, economic, and social organization of the global community, in its own interest. The well-known American economist Lyndon LaRouche calls this force "the world financial bankers' dictatorship."

In the case of the Israeli aggression against Lebanon, the following aims of the primary player can be discerned:
- completion of the defeat of the Westphalia-Potsdam system of international relations [referring to the Peace of Westphalia in 1649, and the 1945 Potsdam Conference -ed.], devaluation of the norms and principles of the United Nations Organization Charter, and discrediting of the UNO. Establishment of a global dictatorship, as well as the unrestrained use of armed force, are impossible without achieving these objectives;
- creation of conditions for strikes against Iran, seizure of Iran's oil and gas fields, and establishment of control over their transportation routes (this also being one of the most important instruments of dictatorship);
- preparations to remake the map of the Greater Middle East, by force.

Among the more particular objectives are the disruption of plans for transforming Lebanon into a stable economic and financial zone in the Middle East—a kind of a central bank for the Arab countries, which would work on completely different terms, than the world financial system does.

The United States (oil and military-industrial capital, which is in power) has been doing the will of the primary party, seeking to achieve a number of particular objectives:
- they have been strengthening their position as world gendarme, along with the role of armed force in dealing with international problems;
- they have been working to provoke a situation for carrying out strikes against Iran;
- they have been preparing for the USA itself to replace the UN Security Council;
- they have been rallying the American public around preparations for new military adventures, while trying to distract people from problems in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Great Britain has an interest in increasing its influence in traditional zones of British political activity, while pushing French interests out of the Middle East.

Israel has increasingly been trying out the role of strike unit for the world financial elite, while laying claim to consolidating its status as an "untouchable" state.

Israel's current objectives:
- maintain constant instability in the surrounding Arab countries, as a condition for its own survival;
- eliminate the military capabilities of states and movements that are hostile to Tel Aviv;
- provoke inter-Arab and inter-Muslim frictions and clashes (according to the "divide and conquer" principle);
- shift the attention of the Israeli population from domestic problems, to military operations, in order to strengthen the regime of E. Olmert;
- defeat and discredit radical Islamic movements (Hamas, Hezbollah), which have been gaining in political weight;
- tie the USA to Israel political approaches;
- satisfy the demands of Israeli military men for increased defense spending, and strengthen the position of the Army in Israeli society.

Lebanon and the Hezbollah organization are more the recipients of, than players in the launching of the large-scale Israeli operation. True, Lebanese society and the government had reached consensus on the following points:
- liberation of Israeli-occupied land in southern Lebanon (the Shabba farms);
- freeing of hundreds of Lebanese, who are languishing in Israeli jails;
- humiliation of the Israeli aggressor.

In the context of the dramatic events in the Middle East, international and Russian media mention Iran and Syria, as parties with an interest in unleashing Israeli aggression against Lebanon. The former supposedly wants to deflect attention from its own nuclear program and the transfer of the Iranian nuclear dossier to the UN Security Council. Syria supposedly hopes to avoid being punished for the death of R. Hariri.

I submit that, besides Lebanon, Iran and Syria have a greater interest than anybody else, in maintaining stability and peace in the Middle East. Both of these countries have been targetted by the American-Israeli military leadership, and have a realistic evaluation (better than that of Saddam Hussein) of the correlation of forces and the consequences of possible military strikes against Tehran and Damascus. And while a ground operation may not yet be a threat for Iran, it is a very real one for Syria. It is also obvious that the case of Iraq shows, more than convincingly, what comes after that. Therefore the foreign policy actions of these two countries have been very carefully considered and cautious in the recent period.

Without a doubt, Tehran and Damascus support Hezbollah, both as a front-line unit for restraining Israel, and as a powerful Shiite-Alawite branch of Islam. Therefore it is not in their interest, to subject Hezbollah to a powerful Israeli military strike. Even during the Israeli aggression, they have exhibited restraint in extending any military assistance to the Hezbollah armed units.

Concerning Hezbollah: in the current situation it is important for the USA, Great Britain, and Israel to represent it to the world community as a terrorist organization, and to legitimize the Israeli aggression, and support of it, as part of the fight against international terrorism.

Hezbollah emerged as an armed organization, with up to 5,000 men in its units, in 1982, for the defense of the residents of southern Lebanon, and to fight against the Israeli occupation of Lebanese territories. After the Israelis killed the former leader of Hezbollah, Sheikh Abbas Moussawi, in 1992, Hassan Nasrallah took charge of the organization. Upon his assuming leadership, Hezbollah began to be transformed into a political and social movement, with a military wing, and today it has 14 representatives in the Lebanese Parliament, as well as two ministerial chairs in the government.

The movement not only has the support of over one million Lebanese Shiites, but there is also a trend for its influence in Lebanese political life to increase. Therefore war with Israel is not in the interests of Hezbollah. Especially in view of the fact that a truce has existed between it and Tel Aviv since 1996.

Hezbollah has now become the generally acknowledged center of Lebanese resistance to the aggressor. Its military successes have substantially enhanced its political status not only in Lebanon, but throughout the Islamic world.

It is too early to say who has achieved what, in the Israel-Lebanon conflict. There are only some interim results.

Hezbollah has most likely strengthened its positions not only within Lebanon, but across the entire anti-Israel front. It has proven its viability under fire from superior forces. It has engaged in three types of combat (for the first time in the history of Israel-Lebanon conflicts): on land, at sea, and in the air, and has inflicted palpable damage on the enemy for the first time.

Israel has failed to demonstrate overwhelming military power, to defend its population from missile attack, or to break Hezbollah's resistance. The only success has been to destroy vital infrastructure for the population, several administrative centers, residential houses, and the weak infrastructure of the Lebanese Army. Thus its main success has been achieved against the civilian population and civilian targets.

Together with the United States, Tel Aviv has succeeded in "taking out" the UN Security Council, turning it into a shield for its aggressive policy.

The new war has not consolidated the Arab and Islamic world, nor has it irretrievably divided it. On the one hand, we see that Muslims all over the world are in solidarity with the people of Lebanon, but, on the other, they heeded the call of the spiritual leader of the Wahhabites, Sheikh Abdullah Bin-Jubreen, not to support the Lebanese Shiites, not to help Hezbollah, and not to pray for its victory.

Neither the USA nor Israel has succeeded in creating conditions for strikes against Iran. Arguments like "Iran is helping Hezbollah" are failing to receive serious public support in America, not to mention the international community. Moreover, the USA got a serious slap in the face from the Lebanese government, which refused to receive Secretary of State C. Rice in Beirut.

Israel is not succeeding in toppling the Hamas government in Palestine, while the operation against the Palestinians and the Lebanese has not brought about solidarity on the part of the Israeli population with the E. Olmert government. If the conflict drags out, the problems of Israeli refugees, the deaths of civilians, and their sitting in camps and bunkers may lead to an explosion in Israeli itself.

And so, what will the primary parties to this aggression decide to do: to be satisfied with the results of the operation, or to pursue military operations to a victorious conclusion? If it is the latter, then the world is on the threshold of a big war in the Greater Middle East, the consequences of which will be extremely grave for the whole world.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:
Hi Pincher

Not everyone who challenges the accepted view of wealth and money creation promoted by modern economics professors are anti-semites or neo-nazis. I hope you recognise this

Are you familiar with and do you have an opinion on this DVD?

http://www.themoneymasters.com/

It seems to be an accurate history of money and its creation IMO. Are you aware of any factual errors in it?

Thanks for your opinion


Hi Ian,

Having visited the site it seems to have the mark of Lyndon La Rouche all over it. The producers have gone to great lengths to conceal their true identities (eg promo pieces which are not bylined but are written in the first person) and banking reform is one of his hobby horses.

I suggest you spend an hour or two doing a few google searches on him (tagging on words like 'fraud' 'fascism' 'cult' etc) and his front organisations (particularly the so-called Schiller Institute). You might find the anecdotes of former LaRouche acolytes a little wearing (the inncocents all seem to get disillusioned after handing over their pin numbers to him) but stick with it.

Look, here's a link to set you on your way (LaRouche articles are listed on the left side bar) http://www.dennisking.org/

If after all that you still REALLY want to know if there are any inaccuracies in the DVD...

Regards,

Pincher


Last edited by Pincher on Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:25 am    Post subject: Rothschilds' Riches Reply with quote

In Frederic Morton's The Rothschilds biography, page 60 says:

Quote:
The total wealth encompassed by the [Rothschild] clan during most of the nineteenth century has been estimated at well over 400 million pounds. No one else, from the Fuggers to the Rockefellers, has come even close to that hair-raising figure.


That is preceded by a paragraph which includes a figure of five million pounds maximum for Queen Victoria's fortune.

World GDP is now about $61 trillion. For high net worth individuals (HNWIs), personal wealth is reckoned at $33.3 trillion, say, £17.6 trillion.

If we suppose £500 million for the Rothschild fortune in 1875, then 131 years at 3% p.a. compounded is a 48-fold increase to £24 billion. At 5% the increase is 597 times to £298 billion, and at 10% the increase is 264,510 times to £132 trillion.

The Rothschilds would probably have been capable of producing sufficient return that they were limited by the ceiling of global wealth. In order to achieve an increase of 7,000 times up to £3.5 trillion, they would only need to average about 7% p.a. compound. This would place them at about one-fifth of total HNWI personal wealth. In terms of GDP, the wealthiest country (US) is about 20% of the global total. Allowing for other wealth, the upper limit could be set above £3.5 trillion. The US$500 trillion looks too high - over eight times world GDP.

If they only achieved the UK inflation multiplier of about 73 times since 1875, their wealth would be at £36.5 billion. This is probably a lower limit.
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