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How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney!!!!????

 
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fixuplooksharp
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney!!!!???? Reply with quote

Taken from Counterpunch

How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney
Proving Nothing

By JOSHUA FRANK

I really have no interest in debunking all the nutty conspiracies revolving around September 11, 2001. I find the exercise about as entertaining as discussing the virgin birth with a Christian fundamentalist. The truth is, it's is damn near impossible to convince a zealot of their senselessness.

I concede that there are a lot of questions yet to be answered about that dark day five years ago. But of all of the inquiries, none, in my opinion, if answered, would ever indicate the US government was behind the bloody affair. Sad thing is most 9/11 conspiracy theorists, conveniently dubbed the 9/11 Truth Movement, are on par with Bush for the Super-Negligence Award: what they are now propagating will never stop this out-of-control administration or any of our government's homicidal policies.

With all the banter about the Bushies and the neocons taking down the World Trade Center or flying a missile in to the Pentagon, the Truth Movement seems to willfully ignore that we've got real wars going on in the Middle East right now. And most of these battles started well before Bush took office or Bin Laden's combat teams flew commercial airliners in to the WTC.

I've yet to comprehend how sending out mass emails, which "prove" George W. Bush and company were behind 9/11, will ever bring our troops home or curb US imperialism. Never mind these hollow tirades "prove" nothing, the senders' obsessive tendencies (my inbox overflows with this nonsense) are a huge diversion from the actual crimes our government commits on a daily basis.

While some BYU physicist rattles his brain over the intricacies of WTC #7's collapse, our government is dropping toxic gas on poor peasants in Colombia in attempts to eradicate coca production. While David Ray Griffin pens his next best seller, forests in Alaska and Appalachia are being obliterated in the name of corporate profit. While so many truth seekers attempt to convince us (how they can seek the truth when they already think they have all the answers is beyond me) that the Jews who worked in the WTC were told ahead of time not to come to work on 9/11, Lebanon is being invaded and destroyed by Israel.

What's the Truth Movement doing about the hundreds of thousands of poor non-violent drug offenders who are rotting in US prisons, or the thousands more who are decaying on death row? What are they doing for the teenage girls who slave away in sweatshops piecing together our clothes and sneakers? What have conspiracy theories ever proven, anyway?

Just last week Al-Jazeera (not exactly an apologist for US aggression) aired an old video, which allegedly showed Osama hanging out with a few 9/11 perpetrators. Will the conspiracy pushers now try to convince us that Al-Jazeera is in cahoots with Fox News?

Indeed this administration, like so many before it, needs to be stopped at once. But we certainly don't need conspiracy theories to make the case.

Joshua Frank, author of Left Out! How Liberals Helped Reelect George W. Bush, edits http://www.BrickBurner.org

link: http://www.counterpunch.org/frank09112006.html
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foliagecop
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"What's the Truth Movement doing about the hundreds of thousands of poor non-violent drug offenders who are rotting in US prisons, or the thousands more who are decaying on death row? What are they doing for the teenage girls who slave away in sweatshops piecing together our clothes and sneakers? What have conspiracy theories ever proven, anyway?"

Oh, what a terrible, terrible argument. And this guy's a writer??

Jeez Louise.
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Woodee
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we are not allowed to search for 9/11 Truth because there are other bad things going on in the world? Riiiiight. Well.... one at a time ... one at a time!
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marky 54
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney!!!!? Reply with quote

fixuplooksharp wrote:
Taken from Counterpunch

How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney
Proving Nothing

By JOSHUA FRANK

I really have no interest in debunking all the nutty conspiracies revolving around September 11, 2001. I find the exercise about as entertaining as discussing the virgin birth with a Christian fundamentalist. The truth is, it's is damn near impossible to convince a zealot of their senselessness.

I concede that there are a lot of questions yet to be answered about that dark day five years ago. But of all of the inquiries, none, in my opinion, if answered, would ever indicate the US government was behind the bloody affair. Sad thing is most 9/11 conspiracy theorists, conveniently dubbed the 9/11 Truth Movement, are on par with Bush for the Super-Negligence Award: what they are now propagating will never stop this out-of-control administration or any of our government's homicidal policies.

With all the banter about the Bushies and the neocons taking down the World Trade Center or flying a missile in to the Pentagon, the Truth Movement seems to willfully ignore that we've got real wars going on in the Middle East right now. And most of these battles started well before Bush took office or Bin Laden's combat teams flew commercial airliners in to the WTC.

I've yet to comprehend how sending out mass emails, which "prove" George W. Bush and company were behind 9/11, will ever bring our troops home or curb US imperialism. Never mind these hollow tirades "prove" nothing, the senders' obsessive tendencies (my inbox overflows with this nonsense) are a huge diversion from the actual crimes our government commits on a daily basis.

While some BYU physicist rattles his brain over the intricacies of WTC #7's collapse, our government is dropping toxic gas on poor peasants in Colombia in attempts to eradicate coca production. While David Ray Griffin pens his next best seller, forests in Alaska and Appalachia are being obliterated in the name of corporate profit. While so many truth seekers attempt to convince us (how they can seek the truth when they already think they have all the answers is beyond me) that the Jews who worked in the WTC were told ahead of time not to come to work on 9/11, Lebanon is being invaded and destroyed by Israel.

What's the Truth Movement doing about the hundreds of thousands of poor non-violent drug offenders who are rotting in US prisons, or the thousands more who are decaying on death row? What are they doing for the teenage girls who slave away in sweatshops piecing together our clothes and sneakers? What have conspiracy theories ever proven, anyway?

Just last week Al-Jazeera (not exactly an apologist for US aggression) aired an old video, which allegedly showed Osama hanging out with a few 9/11 perpetrators. Will the conspiracy pushers now try to convince us that Al-Jazeera is in cahoots with Fox News?

Indeed this administration, like so many before it, needs to be stopped at once. But we certainly don't need conspiracy theories to make the case.

Joshua Frank, author of Left Out! How Liberals Helped Reelect George W. Bush, edits http://www.BrickBurner.org

link: http://www.counterpunch.org/frank09112006.html
so you think the troops will come home if the truth didnt get out? or would more be sent because the war keeps growing? and the osama footage dosnt show any plans to do with 9/11 we are just having that suggestion put to us by the news. and all the faces are obsurred/censored and also the news uses words like claiming to meet, apprantly meeting, nothing that can be 100%. what we doing about drug uses? look at the title of the site 9/11 truth. that dosnt mean to say that none of us help people on drugs on a daily basis. the goverments dropping toxic gas on people? and why do you think that isnt connected to the same corruption as 9/11? also if we were willfully ignoring wars 9/11 wouldnt be an issue. most believe, even just under half of the u.s that the u.s goverment let it happen or played a part. which would throw doubt over the whole war on terror in the first place.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney!!!!? Reply with quote

fixuplooksharp wrote:
Taken from Counterpunch

How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney
Proving Nothing

By JOSHUA FRANK

Just last week Al-Jazeera (not exactly an apologist for US aggression) aired an old video, which allegedly showed Osama hanging out with a few 9/11 perpetrators. Will the conspiracy pushers now try to convince us that Al-Jazeera is in cahoots with Fox News?


The basis of his whole arguement is once again Al-jazeera and the Bin Laden-Sopranos soap opera.

Who owns Al Jazeera and how come it is conveniently located in the same vicinity as the headquarters of the US army in the Middle East.

This isn't a conspiracy. Just coincidence. Like all others. The war in Iraq isn't about oil, but ...al Quaeda.

3/4 of all known journalists in any paper will supoort the Bush line. The other 1/4 cant think.
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John White
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its was Diebold & Co that got Bush re-elected, not Liberals

This guy seems to be led by events and his opinions are reactions to them

911 truth is about getting to the root of events, and gaining clarity over them

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lostpomme
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Indeed this administration, like so many before it, needs to be stopped at once. But we certainly don't need conspiracy theories to make the case.


Conspiracy theories? What would you call the official theory?
You seem to be very concerned about the huge amount of suffering effecting the world today. As are we. How can you imply that the pursuit of truth regarding 911 can be harmful to anything but those who wish to keep information hidden?
Do you accept that the wars in Iraq and Afganistan are being fought due to the accepted version of the events of 911?
Do you accept that further enquiry into these events is necessary? (if not god help you...)
Do you accept that no change can come about in Iraq and Afganistan without a change in majority public opinion and/or massive public action?
Then what better method do you sugest? Are you achieving results in your chosen method? Better results than the unbeliebable level of growth the truth movement is experiencing?
I was in London for the weekends events, and after watching the media in the days afterwards i feel the worm has indeed turned.
Soon arguments such as yours will be obslete, giving all of us (including yourself) more time to make a positive contribution.

Dan

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney!!!!? Reply with quote

fixuplooksharp wrote:

But of all of the inquiries, none, in my opinion, if answered, would ever indicate the US government was behind the bloody affair.


OK so you believe the official conspiracy theory. You're entitled to that view.

A conspiracy theory is by definition a theory about a conspiracy. A conspiracy is by definition a plan between two or more people to commit a crime. Therefore I trust you would not disagree that a conspiracy did exist and it would appear that you accept the theory propounded by the US government that these attacks were carried out by 19 Arab hijackers under the command of Mohammed Atta, inspired by Osama bin Laden from a cave in Afghanistan.

I happen to believe that that particular theory does not fit the evidence, but unlike you, I do not claim to know what really happened. I am agnostic. Like you I think that some of the theories suggested by some people are absurd.

Like David Ray Griffin I find it extremely disturbing that the 9/11 Commission omitted and distorted a mass of evidence which casts doubt on the official theory. Therefore I believe a new, fully independent public inquiry is needed to ascertain the truth.

I share your concern to prevent exploitation of people and of the environment and I believe that most of this happens because the profit motive is almost worshipped as a benevolent force, which it isn't.

Like you, I want to end the war on terror, but unlike you, I believe that if the public come to realise that it is based on a lie, the justification for this long war and the violation of civil liberties which it engenders will disappear and the public will demand that peace and human rights be restored and the planet be rescued from ecological disaster.

fixuplooksharp wrote:

Indeed this administration, like so many before it, needs to be stopped at once.


Indeed! but removing the administration alone will not do the trick if most people continue to believe that the War on Terror was started by an attack on the US by Osama bin Laden and his friends when the reality is that that theory is incorrect, and the truth is rather that US officials were in some way complicit in the attacks and have been trying to cover up that fact ever since.

Welcome to the website.

Noel
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aggle-rithm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney!!!!? Reply with quote

fixuplooksharp wrote:
What have conspiracy theories ever proven, anyway?



This is one of the problems I have with conspiracy theories, or rather the kind of sloppy thinking that allows conspiracy theories to propogate -- they lack utility. They are not useful to predict events or to solve any real-world problems. Being a software developer, I am constantly driven to find solutions that are based on logical analysis, not wishful thinking. This is why I argue against any baseless belief system that diverts resources from where they are really needed. I find the 911 conspiracy theories particularly heinous because they make unwarranted accusations of criminal behavior and they defile the memory of the victims of the attack.

Not to mention that they are a collosal waste of time.
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marky 54
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sloppy thinking? the whole thing dosnt add up, and i wouldnt say it was sloppy thinking. most people when they watch the evidece agree that 9/11 needs reinvestigating. but because of the media control most people are not allowed to see the points raised. and if you think false flag operations have never been pulled of before your wrong. some countries openly admit to it, and files have been declassified from the past that show certain events to of been a false flag. so when theres questions raised in any inccident and they are ignored, or not answered, there is reason in what people think. the points people raise are because of psyical evidence not because it was dreamt up from nothing. its not like we just woke up and thought, hey i know lets make something up. there is stuff around that shows things that dont add up and the goverments like to call them conspiracy theorys, because people are asking difficult questions they want to avoid. you have proved time and time again aggle that you think you should just trust the goverments word. and yet they said osama ordered 9/11, then changed it to massarui as bush said during his speech to get laws past so they can torture prisoners yesterday. they said wmd's definatly exsisted in iraq but found none,they said saddam had links to al-qeada, the senate said there was no evidence of that and the whitehouse should of known it. they said he could strike in 45 mintues, again nothing was found to claim that. every reason they told us they were going into iraq for was false. and bush now says its because iraq is key to fighting terror. so they just make up rubbish as they go along and lie. so why the hell do you seem to think they'd never lie to you aggle? they just lie and get away with it because of people like you. even the commission just let them avoid ,not answer questions and just blag their way through it.
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marky 54
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and if seeking the truth is a conspiracy theory, there is no hope in this world. all we ask for is either a reinvestigation or some of the questions to be answered. truth means truth, it means the truth could be what we have already been told, but when theirs things that dont add up and no one wants to answer them or even accept yeah it looks dodgy but theres properbly an explaination, when we are told that we are conspiracy theorists when we are looking at actual footage and getting the conclusions it makes it obvious something is being hidden. especially with the efforts made to avoid us and put us down rather than just explain to us the questions raised. if we dont live in a free country and if we are not allowed to question something when we have doubts then somebodys please say. either we live in a democracy or we dont, dont preech democracy and take it away at the same time. dont use freedom as the tool we are protecting with the war on terror and then condem people for being free, when all that needs to happen is questions answered or a reinvestigastion. i am sick of having my opinon and then being slatered for doing so, called a nutter, numbskull ect. ect. do we live in a free country or dont we, its shocking to think that we do but we are not allowed to disbelief what we are told if we think there is doubt, or evidence to doubt, that isnt freedom thats a dictatorship. we told you this happened and you will believe it! we are preeched. even though they lied in front of everyone about iraq.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney!!!!? Reply with quote

aggle-rithm wrote:
fixuplooksharp wrote:
What have conspiracy theories ever proven, anyway?



This is one of the problems I have with conspiracy theories, or rather the kind of sloppy thinking that allows conspiracy theories to propogate -- they lack utility. They are not useful to predict events or to solve any real-world problems. Being a software developer, I am constantly driven to find solutions that are based on logical analysis, not wishful thinking. This is why I argue against any baseless belief system that diverts resources from where they are really needed. I find the 911 conspiracy theories particularly heinous because they make unwarranted accusations of criminal behavior and they defile the memory of the victims of the attack.

Not to mention that they are a collosal waste of time.


and this is one of the most succesfull tactics of COINTELPRO aggle-rithm

All "they" have to do is factor in some apparant randomness and illogicality and it becomes impossible for you to accept "they" could do it

the human mind has two halves:

Dont be a left brain prisoner

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: How the 9/11 Truth Movement Helps Bush & Cheney!!!!? Reply with quote

aggle-rithm wrote:

This is one of the problems I have with conspiracy theories, or rather the kind of sloppy thinking that allows conspiracy theories to propogate -- they lack utility.


What kind of sloppy thinking is this? "The official story doesn't add up, here are the inconsistencies." ?

The official story of September 11th is a conspiracy theory by definition. The difference between it and ours is that we have more evidence.

aggle-rithm wrote:
They are not useful to predict events or to solve any real-world problems.


Oh yawn. Who cares? Neither is masturbation but people do it anyway.

aggle-rithm wrote:
Being a software developer, I am constantly driven to find solutions that are based on logical analysis, not wishful thinking.


Most people wake up to the reality of 9/11, not by thinking "I wish elements within the US government were involved", but by realising that the official story is unsubstantiated and entirely false. It is up to the United States government to prove their story, it is not up to us to disprove it. So far they have failed.

Your mention of being a software developer and having to use logical analysis all the time holds little water. Many 9/11 truth seekers are software developers - examples include myself and Eric Hufschmid.

aggle-rithm wrote:
This is why I argue against any baseless belief system that diverts resources from where they are really needed. I find the 911 conspiracy theories particularly heinous because they make unwarranted accusations of criminal behavior and they defile the memory of the victims of the attack.


You pretty much summed up the official story there. Unwarranted accusations against Osama bin Laden and his "merry men". It also defiles the memory of the victims of the attack by not attempting, at all, to show what really happened.

aggle-rithm wrote:
Not to mention that they are a collosal waste of time.


Yeah, trying to find the truth about the event which spawned the "war on terror", which has so far killed thousands upon thousands of people and will lead us into an imperialistic third world war, is such a waste of time.
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