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Ally
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blackcat
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 Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Your preoccupation with this * should get you banned. You could not hurt the 9/11 truth movement more if you tried. Or is that your aim? |
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Ally
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| why not research the subject instead of regurgitating the same old cliches? that's exacly what Nafeez and Paul have done, for some reason people think they're untouchable but when they are misinformed they need corrected. like urself, fool |
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Andrew Johnson
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
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I think the previous 2 posts show how PTB like to "divide and rule" by rigging things so that people who are actually working towards the same goal can be psychologically tricked into working against each other.
Might I just suggest the following:
1) All evidence being vigorously discussed is inspected carefully (within the limits of available time) and discussed on this basis.
2) People posting try to avoid too much bad language and personal, loaded accusations
I know I sound like a prefect or summat - and you can tell me to "bog off" if you want. These are just suggestions.
_________________
Andrew
Ask the Tough Questions, Folks!
Last edited by Andrew Johnson on Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ally
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I agree with your sentiments, this below sums up where the debate stands, I'd live to know what Blakcat thinks hit the towers, does he believe the contradictory witnesses or the bogus footage.
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No-plane theory (NPT) is a theory held by some people in the 9/11 truth movement (also referred to as “truthers”) that the government conspirators behind the Sept. 11th attacks did not use real planes to crash into the WTC, the Pentagon, or in Shanksville. People who subscribe to this theory are usually referred to as "no-planers," or "NPTs" (no-plane theorists).
Although the title "no-plane theory" suggests that those who subscribe to it literally think that absolutely no aircraft at all hit their targets, some who subscribe to this theory do hold the possibility that some other kinds of aircraft were used, although much smaller (i.e. missile, UAV, etc). They sometimes prefer to call this theory the "no-Boeing," or "no-7X7" theory to reflect it more accurately although they are usually lumped in together with the no-planer “purists” by opponents of NPT.
There is also some differing thought amongst NPTs as to whether some of the alleged planes that where hijacked on 9/11 even existed at all because the early government BTS statistics showed no listings for American Airlines Flight’s 11 (WTC 1) and 77 (Pentagon) and some even claim that some of the passenger lists were faked. However, this is just a side-note to their theory and all those who do subscribe to NPT in general agree on the very least that no Boeing 767’s or 757’s (or other similar large aircraft) hit their targets regardless if they existed or not.
Even though NPT applies to all of the four crash sites that day, most people associate NPT with only the WTC crashes since this is the most controversial aspect of this theory because of the seemingly overwhelming evidence that Boeing 767's did indeed crash into the Twin Towers such as "thousands" of eyewitnesses in the area saw the crash, the plane was caught “live” on TV as it crashed, dozens of other news and amateur videos and photos also captured it crashing, the crash created huge gashes in the towers and large fireballs, plane debris was found at the scene, and the perpetrators couldn’t pull it off because of technical constraints and too many people would be needed to pull it off and they would eventually leak the truth out.
NPT proponents counter that the technology needed to pull off faking the plane crashes into the towers does exist and would need very few people to pull it off. They also say only one video was shown “live” on TV and video seen “live” on TV is not actually live, but is on a delayed feed. This single video was taken by a sophisticated military camera system that is able to transmit technical data in real time and that the plane 2nd plane seen in this video had no discernable markings on it and didn’t actually crash, but rather was seen disappearing behind the North Tower which was blocking the South Tower that is supposedly crashed into. They also suggest very few eyewitnesses at the scene saw the planes actually crash because of all the tall buildings in the area and show that some witnesses at the scene saw the explosion, but didn’t see or hear a plane. They also suggest there were multiple large planes in the area used to distract people and that all the plane debris was planted. They also say that the first “fake” video that was transmitted was shown repeatedly over the news and to all the witnesses who claimed at first they didn’t see a plane crashing into the towers. They also claim the gashes in the towers are “too perfect” for 767’s to have made and that 767’s are to fragile to have penetrated entirely all the way in without crumpling, or slowing down. They are still at odds as to what could have caused the explosions in the towers. Some of the NPTs who believe smaller aircraft hit the towers suggest maybe these are responsible for creating the massive fireballs.
A lot of people in the 9/11 truth movement (commonly referred as just “truthers”) who do not believe in NPT do believe that no Boeing 757’s hit the Pentagon, or crashed in Shanksville, PA. Some NPT’s like to refer to theses kinds of truthers and ones who believe that the real or large planes hit all of their targets as "planehuggers" (some NPTs refer specifically to the truthers who just believe the Pentagon and Shanksville crashes were fake as "half-planers"). Some of these truthers find these term offensive, but the NPT’s who coined the terms say they did so because these truthers are ignoring the overwhelming evidence that they believe proves NPT at the WTC and that they are just being “politically correct” so as to not turn off any potential newcomer into the truth by espousing to such "radical" theories. They also point out the truthers who don’t believe a 757 hit the Pentagon or crashed in Shanksville are being hypocritical with their beliefs because the evidence of too many eyewitnesses seeing the WTC crashes for it to have been faked can be said about the Pentagon and Shanksville crashes were also seen by a lot of eyewitnesses, yet they think those crashes were fake.
Another important aspect of NPT to have made it happen is the theory that all of the videos and photographs taken of the WTC crashes were somehow doctored, even the alleged amateur ones. This theory, with is just as controversial, is usually referred separately as "TV Fakery" although it is an integral part of NPT. The leading theory of how the videos were doctored is by using computer-generated imagery (CGI). The earliest theory of how they were doctored was by using blue-screen technology, although this theory has since been abandoned by most NPTs.
Another term that always gets associated with NPT is the hologram theory. This was one of the earliest theories used to try to explain how no 767 could have hit the WTC even though it was videotaped and photographed by multiple news agencies and amateurs. Even though this theory has long since been abandoned and replaced by current theories such as the "fly-by" theory, it is still regularly brought up by NPT opponents to try to mock no-planners and ridicule their theory.
The reason NPT is so controversial in the 9/11 truth movement is because a lot of NPT opponents believe this theory was specifically created by “shills” who are those in the truth movement who pretend to be legitimate activists believing 9/11 was an inside job, but are really government agents hired to help swindle other truthers in promoting false theories about 9/11 in order to be ridiculed and discredit the entire truth movement.
NPTs are also thought of as “hostile” by a lot of NPT opponents because of the very aggressive way they debate about and push this theory, but NPTs say that it is the opponents of their theory who were the ones that were being hostile first which in turn caused some NPTs to become seemingly hostile when debating this theory.
Some of the most adamant opponents of NPT are the truthers known as “Podders,” or the “Pod People.” These are truthers who believe that real planes did crash into the WTC, but that they were drone 767’s flown via remote-control and that at least on the plane that crashed into the South Tower caught on video, it was specially outfitted with a mechanical assemble, or “pod,” underneath its fuselage as some sort of laser guiding system, or was a special missile assembly for the purpose of shooting out a missile into the building a split second before the plane crashed into the South Tower. Most Podders however, think that the crashes at the Pentagon and Shanksville were fake also.
NPTs claim that of all the truthers that are hostile towards them about their theory, that Podders are the ones who are most hostile towards them. NPTs say they are routinely harassed and insulted by them and are banned from forums that they think are controlled by Podders just because they disagree with their pod theory.
NPTs think the real reason Podders are so opposed to NPT is because their theory debunks the pod theory since the planes were not real and that the Podders will lose their “tight grip” on the truth movement they had achieved when the pod theory was popular.
The irony about the Podders being so opposed to NPT is that the truthers who are opponents of both of these theories say that the pod theory is just as equally absurd as NPT and both NPTs and Podders are disgracing the truth movement by pushing these “bogus” theories and also think a lot of these people are shills. To add to irony, both Podders and NPTs think each other are the shills and each other’s theories are discrediting the truth movement. Both of them are usually the most hostile towards each other when debating on forums, or where ever.
Since NPT is so controversial in the truth movement, many truthers who do believe in NPT, or some aspect of it, are too afraid to admit this in public for fear of being discredited and ostracized by fellow truthers. Most of them just play it safe and say NPT is a “worthy” alternative for discussion. Some NPTs believe that the reason so many truthers are so opposed to NPT is because some of them are really the shills and they are becoming very nervous that NPT is gaining in popularity in the movement, especially with notable truther “big wigs” such as former chief economist for the Bush administration Morgan Reynolds and also, as some claim, with actor Charlie Sheen.
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http://no-plane-theory.blogspot.com/ |
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marky 54
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| i myself have an open mind to anything being possible, but cannot support the npt for a few reasons, the most important thing is to wake people up first to the fact that 9/11 didnt happen as was stated. this will be very hard to do using a npt theory unless there is 100% evidence of it. secondly ive looked at it and always get stuck on the plane holes in the building, if these were made by something other than a plane how can it be proved? all i know is theres something being hidden about 9/11 and the more people group away from each other the harder it will be. everyone starts on a certain track then split of into so many theories that even believers start to become confused with them all. and start to doubt any real evidence that there is and go backwards to the point of believing that 9/11 happened how was said, because its the only theory/facts left that seem believable. maybe some of the stuff is there on purpose to make that happen, which stuff i dont know but we have to consider deliberate misinfo to hamper the movement and make the offical story have more credibility to people regardless of what really happened. |
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TimmyG
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Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: |
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the two video clips are from different angles. you can see the planes approach is very different. and when the camera is so far away from the towers a change in angle can make things look very different perspective-wise.
i don't think watson and and nafeez are surpressing evidence. they just don't want to pursue or entertain any NPTs because:
a. there is little or no evidence that the planes were faked.
b. the chances of them actually successfully conning every news network and planting videos in the apparent hands of the public (whilst arresting and silencing every joe bloggs who filmed it on the day) is very very small. and unnessasary (much easier to fly actual planes into the building)
c. if the planes were fake then the chances of us actually proving it to any extent atall are absolutely zilch. we might as well assume that the planes are real.
The no planes theory can only hurt the movement! dick cheney laughs to himself whenever he hears one of us 9/11 truthers talking about it and sparks up a cigar whilst planning his next war.
_________________
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" |
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Ally
Moderate Poster
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| TimmyG wrote: |
i don't think watson and and nafeez are surpressing evidence. they just don't want to pursue or entertain any NPTs because:
a. there is little or no evidence that the planes were faked.
b. the chances of them actually successfully conning every news network and planting videos in the apparent hands of the public (whilst arresting and silencing every joe bloggs who filmed it on the day) is very very small. and unnessasary (much easier to fly actual planes into the building)
c. if the planes were fake then the chances of us actually proving it to any extent atall are absolutely zilch. we might as well assume that the planes are real.
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My theory with those two is they're just a pair of nero's who can't accept they've been duped for so long with the fake footage. Nafeez believes 19 arabs hijacked planes and Watson wont touch the pentagon because he believes '77' struck it without a shred of hard evidence even after five years.
a)there is enough evidence the footage we've seen of the planes melting into buildings and out the other side is a physical impossibility.
b)much easier to fly the planes, who flew them?
c)if the plane footage were all faked then America went to war based on cartoons. |
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graphicequaliser
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 111
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: |
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If you look at stealth technology research (which has been done way back since the Philadelphia experiment days and before that even), holographic projection techniques for planes would be a definite military aim. Disguising a jet fighter as a commercial passenger liner, could be very useful for a surprise attack on someone. So, it is entirely plausible. However, the NPT can be easily proved or disproved by getting hold of the passenger manifests for the flights involved. If any one of those people is ever found alive after this fiasco, then the planes weren't real. If NPT is right, where are all those passengers? 
_________________
Patriotism, religion, tradition and political/corporate alliance are the vehicles they use to fool us passive, peace-loving, family-orientated apes into fighting each other.
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Ally
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| graphicequaliser wrote: | | If any one of those people is ever found alive after this fiasco, then the planes weren't real. If NPT is right, where are all those passengers? |
if the PTB are prepared to blow up the WTC full of workers then putting the bullet in the head of passengers in an airport hanger would be off little consequence to the perps. |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'd live to know what Blakcat thinks hit the towers, does he believe the contradictory witnesses or the bogus footage. |
I think two large planes hit the towers but I really do not care what hit the towers. I care about sounding sensible. There is a huge body of sound evidence which we can use to convince people that the official version of events is a lie. This topic is heaven sent for our opponents and your preoccupation with it suggests very strongly that you are a shill. You may as well be blaming Martian death rays for all the sense it makes, and if you think I could not make just as compelling a case for Martian death rays as you are for "No planes" think again. Your case is very weak and utterly unnecessary. |
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Ally
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: |
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nice of you to deconstruct why they broadcast fakes blakcat, and yes, I'm shill, keep exposing your absolute ignorance about everything outside your own personal limited paradigms, bwahahaha.
[/quote]
I really do not care what hit the towers. .[/quote]
so why involve yourself in the debate mate?
so who flew those planes that hit the tower blakcat? Elvis? |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | so who flew those planes that hit the tower blakcat? Elvis? |
I do not know who flew the planes or what kind of plane they were. The expression "I do not know" is one I use a lot. You should try it yourself some time. |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | I'd live to know what Blakcat thinks hit the towers, does he believe the contradictory witnesses or the bogus footage. |
I think two large planes hit the towers but I really do not care what hit the towers. I care about sounding sensible. There is a huge body of sound evidence which we can use to convince people that the official version of events is a lie. This topic is heaven sent for our opponents and your preoccupation with it suggests very strongly that you are a shill. You may as well be blaming Martian death rays for all the sense it makes, and if you think I could not make just as compelling a case for Martian death rays as you are for "No planes" think again. Your case is very weak and utterly unnecessary. |
For once Blackcat I agree with you - Ally does make a compelling case for no planes.
So my question to you Blackcat - if Ally does make a compelling case then why are you rubbishing it? |
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Skeptic
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 485
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:18 am Post subject: |
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perhaps there should be a forum for theories like 'no planes' to be debated
like a critics corner, but for those who agree that the official story is false and disagree on what actually aoccured
'9/11 Truth Theories' forum? |
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TimmyG
Validated Poster
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 489
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Ally, am i understanding you correctly? are you saying that the fact we don't know/can't prove who was flying the planes is proof that they were CGI?
what do you think about wtc7?
personally i accept that it was a controlled demolition. but i don't know who planted the charges
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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" |
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MiniMauve
Moderate Poster
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still waiting for one of the NPT whores to (and by that I mean those who continually bring it up again and again) come up with a reasonable explanation as to how the thousands of witnesses, particularly of the 2nd plane impact, can all be wrong/intimidated/complicit. Until they do so, there is no point in my considering any other 'impossibilities'.
Meanwhile, the NPT whores continue to do their best to fracture the movement. This saddens me.
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Stick to what you KNOW. All else is disinformation, intended or not. |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Stick to what you know Minimauve - Sweet FA |
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blackcat
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Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | For once Blackcat I agree with you - Ally does make a compelling case for no planes.
So my question to you Blackcat - if Ally does make a compelling case then why are you rubbishing it? |
If you think Ally makes a compelling case for no planes you could not be further from agreement with me. I rubbish it because it is rubbish - that is the opposite of finding it "compelling". It is so bad I reckon I could make just as compelling a case for any old sh*ite. Read it again and try to follow what is being said. |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | so who flew those planes that hit the tower blakcat? Elvis? |
I do not know who flew the planes or what kind of plane they were. The expression "I do not know" is one I use a lot. You should try it yourself some time. |
So Blackcat - you admit you don't know what sort of planes they were or who (if anybody ) was flying them.
And as you say your stock in trade answer is "I do not know"
I hear there is a vacancy on Coronation Street now Mavis Riley has left,
that job would be right up your street because all Mavis Riley used to say was ....... I don't really know
If you haven't got anything to say other than *, * OR RUBBISH - then why partake in the debate |
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graphicequaliser
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 111
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| THETRUTHWILLSETU3 wrote: | | I hear there is a vacancy on Coronation Street now Mavis Riley has left,... |
ROFL   
_________________
Patriotism, religion, tradition and political/corporate alliance are the vehicles they use to fool us passive, peace-loving, family-orientated apes into fighting each other.
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MiniMauve
Moderate Poster
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| THETRUTHWILLSETU3 wrote: | | Stick to what you know Minimauve - Sweet FA |
Typical response.
_________________
Stick to what you KNOW. All else is disinformation, intended or not. |
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blackcat
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Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you haven't got anything to say other than *, * OR RUBBISH - then why partake in the debate |
I have said plenty other than what you have mentioned though when referring to such * * and rubbish it is impossible not to use those words. I do not debate the "no planes theory". It is not worth debating. I refer to it only to suggest it damages the 9/11 truth movement and that it be dropped or moved somewhere that guests will not be able to read it.
Any references to Coronation Street or its cast are lost on me though I see you have amused someone so at least you have someone at your own level. I do not read the Sun either so please spare me any gems from that. |
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Ally
Moderate Poster
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Posts: 909
Location: banned
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| going to come to mine for a fakery demo blackcat? |
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blackcat
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Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| I don't care if you can show how they were faked. I do not care if they were faked. I do not care if it was holograms on 9/11. You still don't get it do you? |
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Ally
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 909
Location: banned
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | I don't care if you can show how they were faked. I do not care if they were faked. I do not care if it was holograms on 9/11. |
if that's the case please stop posting bull in these threds, others want to get to the bottom of the issue, otherwise you're nowt but a durty troll. What did you do for 911 truth before march 2006? |
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scar
Moderate Poster
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 724
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Skeptic wrote: | perhaps there should be a forum for theories like 'no planes' to be debated
like a critics corner, but for those who agree that the official story is false and disagree on what actually aoccured
'9/11 Truth Theories' forum? |
I agree. Its a solution to all this pointless division.
This has been suggested multiple times now but has yet to materialise. Perhaps there should be a vote?
_________________
Positive...energy...activates...constant...elevation. (Gravediggaz) |
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blackcat
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Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | if that's the case please stop posting bull in these threds, others want to get to the bottom of the issue, otherwise you're nowt but a durty troll. What did you do for 911 truth before march 2006? |
If these threads were kept aside like Critics Corner I would be only too pleased to let the nonsense stay there and avoid it like the plague.
I take it you ask what I did before March 2006 to inform me what a marvellousl activist you have been since well before. I am perfectly happy to accept that you are more wonderful than I and that your dad can fight my dad. |
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Ally
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 909
Location: banned
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: |
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duble post
Last edited by Ally on Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ally
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 909
Location: banned
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| can you please spare me the drivel blackcat? If you can't face the whole truth why bother trolling me? |
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