John Reid heckled and police accused of state terrorism

[Skeptic]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5362052.stm

[spiv]

According to my dictionary, the word 'Terrorism' is defined as follows:

"Terrorist principles and practices; the systematic employment of violence and intimidation to coerce a government or community, esp. into acceding to specific political demands; the fact of terrorizing or being terrorized"

Over the past couple of days we have witnessed Bush advocating torture. Now we have Reid once again banging on about terrorism, trying to maintain the populace in a state of fear and take away further their rights and freedoms.

So just who the hell are the real terrorists in our societies on either side of the Atlantic now? Quite frankly I fear our own governments far more than any Islamic terrorist, and cannot now differentiate between Islamic terrorism and Political terrorism coming from our own ministers!!!

[Mark Gobell]

Well done Skeptic.

I was just about to post this, so I've included the full CURRENT text from the BBC just in case it changes.

I was shocked to see that they actually included "STATE TERRORISM BY BRITISH POLICE" in the report.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5362052.stm

Reid speech disrupted by hecklers

Two hecklers interrupted the speech and were led away from the event

Speech disrupted

Home Secretary John Reid has been heckled during a speech about targeting potential Muslim extremists.

He was interrupted by activist Abu Izzadeen, a Muslim, who said he was "furious" about "state terrorism by British police".

In his speech, Mr Reid asked Muslim parents to keep a close eye on their children and act if they suspected they were being radicalised by extremists.

It was his first speech to a Muslim audience since becoming home secretary.

The protester, also known as Omar Brookes, denies being a member of the banned Abu Ghurabaa group.

He accused the minister of being an "enemy" of Islam.

Mr Reid, who was speaking in Leytonstone, east London, watched as Mr Izzadeen was led from the building by police and stewards.

A second heckler was ejected a few minutes later after he also interrupted the speech.

The man emerged from the venue clutching several posters, one of which said: "John Reid you will pay!"

During his time in east London, which also involved a visit to a mosque, Mr Reid said community and religious leaders could play a key role in the fight against terrorism.

The home secretary said "our fight is not with Muslims generally". Instead, he said, there was a "struggle against extremism".

He warned that terrorist fanatics sought young vulnerable minds to help their cause.

Mr Reid said: "There is no nice way of saying this. These fanatics are looking to groom and brainwash children, including your children, for suicide bombings, grooming them to kill themselves in order to murder others."


John Reid asked Muslim parents to keep a close eye on their children

He stressed that by protecting families the community would protect itself.

The speech came after some Muslim leaders expressed concerns about the UK's foreign policy and called for it to be changed.

Mr Reid did not tell Muslim parents to report their concerns to the police but wants them to confront their children's behaviour and talk to them.

Shankat Khan, 55, one of the older local residents who attended the speech, said it was very narrow to insinuate that it was just Muslim children who were being radicalised.

He said: "What about the British parents? What about the Afro-Caribbean parents? We are as worried as other parents are but we need to be part of a wider society."

BBC Home Affairs Correspondent Daniel Sandford said Muslim elders felt their "real concerns" about the points raised by the home secretary had been "spoiled by stupid heckling".

'Dreadful misjudgement'

Earlier this year, Prime Minister Tony Blair said the government alone could not root out extremism in Muslim communities and defeat the terrorism it creates.

After the 7 July attacks last year, ministers organised national roadshows targeting fanaticism.

Following Mr Reid's speech, shadow attorney general Dominic Grieve said the home secretary was "in danger of repeating what the prime minister has already said: that Muslim extremism is a problem for the Muslim community".

Mr Grieve said the minister "needs to realise that it is a problem for all of us".

In an open letter last month, some Muslims leaders said British foreign policy was putting civilians at increased risk in the UK and abroad.

Mr Reid described the letter, signed by three Muslim MPs, three peers and 38 organisations, as a "dreadful misjudgement".

[Mark Gobell]

Torygraph quotes the "hecklers" but does not include the TERRORISM BY BRITISH POLICE statement.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/20/ureid. xml

Neither does the Time Online: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2366837,00.html

[Mark Gobell]

Guardian does mention STATE TERRORISM BY THE BRITISH POLICE:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,,1876868,00.html?gu src=rss&feed=1

Reid barracked during speech to Muslim parents

David Batty and agencies
Wednesday September 20, 2006

Guardian Unlimited

Abu Izzadeen interrupts the speech of the home secretary, John Reid, as the latter was urging Muslim parents to look out for the "tell-tale signs" of brainwashing in their children. Photograph: Johnny Green/PA

The home secretary, John Reid, was today heckled by protesters as he made a speech in east London urging Muslim parents to monitor their children.

The first interruption came from Abu Izadeen, who shouted that Muslims were being subjected to "state terrorism by the British police".

His intervention came as Mr Reid asked Muslim parents to keep a close watch on their children to prevent them from being radicalised by Islamist extremists.

Mr Izadeen, who accused the home secretary of being an "enemy" of Islam, is said to be a former member of the banned Islamist group al-Ghurabaa, a successor organization to Omar Bakri Mohammed's al-Muhajiroun group. He denies membership of the group. He was led from the building by police and stewards.


Also known as Omar Brooks, Mr Izadeen is a Muslim convert from east London. He told the meeting he was "absolutely furious" and asked how Mr Reid could "dare" come to a Muslim area after so many Muslims - "over a thousand" - had been arrested.

"John Reid, Tony Blair and George Bush's crusade can all go to hell," he shouted. "You are an enemy of Islam and Muslims. Shame on all of us for sitting down and listening to him.

"They are going to come in the morning to your house ... they are going to kick your door down when you're in bed with your wife, then drag you from your own bed."

In response, Mr Reid said: "I was making the very simple point that however sensitive these issues are, we must never allow ourselves to be intimidated or shouted down."

Al-Ghurabaa took credit for organising flag-burning protests outside the Danish embassy in London following worldwide Muslim fury over cartoons of Muhammad.

The group makes no secret of its admiration for Osama bin Laden, and its website espouses the killing of any who insult Muhammad.

Mr Reid continued his speech, saying terrorists were waging a "violent and indiscriminate war". He warned that communities needed to be more aware of signs of terrorist activity.

A second protester interrupted the home secretary a few minutes later. He held up placards saying "John Reid Go To Hell" and shouted: "Enemy of Islam and the Muslims."

The man was ejected a few minutes later and emerged from the venue holding several signs, one of which said: "John Reid, you will pay!"

Mr Reid told the audience in Leytonstone to be vigilant in looking for the "telltale signs" of brainwashing in their children.

The home secretary denied that efforts to tackle Islamist terrorism amounted to a war against Islam.

He said the battle against extremism was not a conflict of religion but one between terrorists and most modern civilised societies, adding that many Muslims had been victims of terrorism.

Mr Reid told the audience that terrorist fanatics were on the hunt for vulnerable young people to recruit to their cause.

"There is no nice way of saying this," he said. "These fanatics are looking to groom and brainwash children, including your children, for suicide bombings. Grooming them to kill themselves in order to murder others.

"Look for the telltale signs now and talk to them before their hatred grows and you risk losing them forever. In protecting our families, we are protecting our community."

Relations between the government and parts of Muslim communities have been strained in recent years by the unpopular invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq and the July 7 London bombings.

The London attacks, in which 52 commuters were killed, heightened concerns about radicalisation among Britain's 1.6 million Muslims.

Many Muslims feel they are unfairly targets of suspicion and are bearing the brunt of the government's tough new anti-terror measures.

Several high-profile anti-terror operations - particularly a June raid on a house in east London in which a man was shot and wounded - have increased tensions. The man and his brother were later released without charge.

Seventeen British Muslims arrested last month have been charged in connection with an alleged plot to blow up transatlantic jets in mid-air.

[xmasdale]

I think if I'd been there I'd probably have heckled him too. But then if you believe that 9/11 and most subsequent major attacks on civilians were carried out by Muslim extremists (and why should you doubt it, if that's what most people are saying) you would as a Muslim parent be worried that your children might fall under the influence of fanatics.

David Ray Griffin in his speech in Conway Hall said that most Muslims know that 9/11 was an inside job. My experience of talking with Muslims in Britain does not bear that out, so I doubt if that is even the case in the US. In leafletting outside mosques I have found a lot of interest in the issue, but most worshippers are reluctant to attend meetings about 9/11 (perhaps through fear) and most that I have met do not appear to doubt the official conspiracy theory.

From only one young guy about to enter the Regents park Mosque, I got the exceptional reaction:

"No! I don't want your leaflet. I know all about 9/11. The Mujaheddin flew planes into skyscrapers and good luck to them. I hope they do it again."

Most seem to be friendly and welcoming that non-Muslims are at least taking the issue seriously.

Noel

[sr4470]

Spoiled? If only they knew...

While I'm no fan of the way most Muslims choose to live their lives (which is entirely each individual's choice), the only terrorist "grooming" I know of is done by MI5\6 (reportedly at Finsbury Park and Brixton mosques) and the CIA.

[insidejob]

Let's not get carried away here, thinking that the heckers somehow represent Muslims. Both hecklers were members of off-shoots of al-Muhajiroun. This bunch of UK Muslim extremists were set up by MI6 in the 1990s to recruit UK Pakistans to fight in Bosnia.

This incident was clearly set up to grab headlines and project an image of polerisation between Muslims and the rest of the UK.

There is a definite issue with UK Muslims and 911. The 'community leaders' who speak on the media assume the correctness of the official conspiracy theory. Indeed, organisations like the Muslim Council of Britain have Muslim Brotherhood links and could very well be part of the official conspiracy theory. But I think that scepticism about 7/7 is widespread. Nonetheless, we need to start communicating with the Muslim press.

And one of our demands is what are the police doing to clamp down on the off-shoots of al-Muhajiroun?

insidejob

[sr4470]

[Mark Gobell]

Good points raised by all here. This debate is long overdue. I did wonder in the light of the recent papal edict, and Reid's expectations of going into Leytonstone with such arrogance, whether this, and maybe the main protagonist, was staged.

This Abu Izzadeen is the same fanatic quoted about 7/7 as a wake up call for us all to smell the coffee.

And therein lies the problem, for all of us.

There is no doubt that some extreme Muslims exist. Among them there are some who would and have used terrorism.

As we know the examples of managed events led by intelligence assets are increasingly coming to light, both historic and current.

The polarisation among the many groups has consequently been easy to achieve. For the terrorists and the terrorised. Mission accomplished.

I imagine those Muslims who are aware of the false flag nature of many of these events, 9/11, Bali, Madrid and London would have as much difficulty delivering that message in their own community as we do.

Their ideas, however are resisted on two fronts. The traditional disbelief, as well we know and by those promoting extremism and confrontation.

Which is worse to accept. The messianic icon of OBL and his winged warriors or the actual truth. Once again the real truth is usurped by the popular myth.

Noel, I agree that DRG's analysis doesn't fit, not least here in the UK.

Reid's arrogant message should be paraphrased by our movement.

The Muslim community should wake up and teach their sons about how to avoid becoming acolytes to the real extremists and to the false flag protagonists who both infect their communities.

Reid, in turn, should withdraw our troops. Resign. Then along with everyone else who voted for these illegal wars, face trial to answer for their murder.

[Rory Winter]

WANTED FOR STATE & INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM



John Reid, 59 years old, employed as Minister for the Interior, Deportations, Rendition and Torture by the Bliar Mafia.

Reid is a known psychopath, war criminal, serial killer and common thug who, even in student days, acted as a hit-man.

He should be approached with extreme caution due to mysterious sulphurous toxins he constantly emanates.

[Mark Gobell]

Quote from this evening's Newsnight:

"in some ways this unscripted intervention from the protestor made the Home Secretary's point for him"

Cut to Herr Grupenfuhrer Reid pronouncing on extremism.

Hmmm.

[Jane]

Noel said:

[Busker]

[sonic]

Jane, may God bless her, may well be right, but it is hard to be sure.

There are around 2 million Muslims in this country, me being one of them of course.

So none of us can clearly speak for these 2 million people or their opinions about 9/11, 7/7 etc.

As I said way back in one of my postings, it is the Muslims who are likely to be shot, arrested, jailed or tortured or even "rendered" for God alone knows how long without any proof of their guilt.

It also need to be remembered that false claims of terrorism or seeming attachment to the same made against them in the media may ruin their careers, lives and reputations forever. Bearing all that in mind it is not all that surprising that they don't all "raise their heads above the parapet" and shout out "We know what's going on".

I can only say that some of the Muslims I know are aware of the false flag nature of these events, because I have told them so, Maybe they pass it on, maybe they don't.

Why not try and arrange a poll through Muslim outlets to get a rough idea.

Finally, I suggest that most young people must be internet aware nowadays and have access to the information we are supplying as a movement.

Peace be with you,

Sonic.

[conspiracy analyst]

the issues regarding 'muslims' have to be on the tv all the time and certain people are given airtime. The character who appeared last night works for them. The whole thing is a theatrical stage managed event to justify the... war on terror.

Abu Hamza had stated that he was in close contact with the security services and they vetted everything he said. This character is exactly the same. Everything always goes back to the ...Finsbury Park Mosque, Pakistan, Al Qaida... never to MI5, CIA.

Do they believe anybody believes this nonsense? I doubt it. But they have to go on and on. They have wars to lose and they have to justify themselves to the soldiers they send out their to do their dirty work.

If every politician first sent his children as a precondition to voting for wars or they themselves were issued with tin hats and a gun instead of sunning themselves in the Bahamas they would limit the drivel that comes out of their mouths.

Even as an act Reid is useless. Clearly on his own face one can see he cant even argue the points.

Even he knows its an inside job...

[sonic]

People DO believe this nonsense.

I was having discussing this with a group of adults (mainly senior citizens) from a college near my home earlier this year who totally believed "this nonsense".

Their hostility towards the Muslims was patently obvious in their speech and demeanour.

They expected me to account for "terrorist actions of the Muslims" and give them the solutions to the "Muslim terrorist problem".

Preposerous of course! Still, I had a go, but no matter what I said, I couldn't budge them very much from the brainwashing they had already received through the media.

However I did suggest that they would be better engaged solving the problems making and selling weapons by large corporations and creating an atmostphere in which they can sell them.

I also suggested that greed for oil, material resources and the ecological problems we are about to face are much more important and should be feared more than the perceived "terrorist threat".

Peace

Sonic.

[conspiracy analyst]

[Mark Gobell]

It's easy to understand the apparent attachment to the idea that OBL smashed those planes into the WTC.

Not only were most of the world fooled but the "blowback" perception provided a focus for those Muslims who do want to resist.

We know how difficult it is for most apparently non alligned folk to accept the truth and we must start seeing the reluctance among some Muslims to see the truth in the proper context.

The myth of OBL et al has been used to terrorise everyone, propogated by all governments, which is why we face such a huge task and has further served as the fulcrum for Muslims to rally politically and otherwise.

We are not only asking Muslims to do that which we are attempting to get everyone else to do, see that their governments are lying, but also to ditch their attachment to the warrior myth that they find so powerfully attractive.

[sonic]

Conspirator wrote: "...they would be clamouring for reprisals, for discriminatory practices against all muslims whenever they get on a bus, on a tube or on a plane".

Good point Conspirator and point taken. They do occasionally in times of "High terror alerts" by the media.

You may agree (or not) that many people may now hate Muslims although they don't necessarily "take action" against them (thank God). I know at least one member of my family who does based on what he reads in the media and sees on television.

Certainly this hate (or perhaps fear) can be found in the letters columns of any tabloids and in the many forums on the internet.

However, I am of the opinion that not all of the public are competely gullible as this forum proves.

Peace,

Sonic.

[Mark Gobell]

Would leafleting a prominent Mosque be a good idea or a bad idea.

[sonic]

Sounds like a good idea to me. But you would need placards to let everyone see what you are about and make it easier for them to accept the leaflets.

Peace,

Sonic.

[Mark Gobell]

But meeting a 60-strong audience, hand-picked from London's Pakistani, Bangladeshi and north African communities

So the audience was in fact hand-picked, pre-selected.

Among those who were selected to attend includes "notorious extremists Anjem Choudary and Abu Izzadeen. " http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_artic le_id=406110&in_page_id=1770


Muslims' fury as they are told to keep watch on their kids

Last updated at 16:41pm on 20th September 2006

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_artic le_id=406101&in_page_id=1770

Reader comments (2

John Reid: Inflammatory remarks

The Home Secretary has urged Muslim parents to watch out for signs that their children are being groomed to become suicide bombers. John Reid told them they must regard their youngsters as potential recruits for firebrand preachers.

His extraordinary comments came in a speech to a specially invited Muslim audience at an east London location which was kept secret for security reasons. "There is no nice way of saying this," he said in a passage warning about the danger from extremist clerics.

"These fanatics are looking to groom and brainwash children for suicide bombing, to kill themselves in order to murder others. Look for the tell-tale signs now and talk to them before their hatred grows and you risk losing them forever. In protecting our families we are protecting our community."

His remarks were condemned by some Muslim leaders, who accused him of wanting parents to spy on their sons. Ahmed Versi, editor of the Muslim News, criticised Mr Reid, saying he was asking parents to inform on their children and implying that all Muslims were potential terrorists. It would generate a "new climate of fear" against Muslims, he said.

But meeting a 60-strong audience, hand-picked from London's Pakistani, Bangladeshi and north African communities, Mr Reid will suggest that some Muslim families turn a blind eye to danger signs. "I know it's not easy," he said. "I'm a parent of two boys and I know how hard it is to raise children and to know everything about them. "And I know how hard it is, sometimes, to see what is in front of our eyes - particularly when it is something that we do not agree with.

"But there are some circumstances when we need to intervene; when we need to challenge or confront their behaviour in order to protect them from others and to protect them from harm."

His comments would have been unthinkable before last year's London bombings, carried out by four British Muslims, in which 52 commuters were murdered and more than 700 injured. But he said Muslim communities needed to be at the forefront of the fight to prevent such horrors.

He argued that the battle was not between Islam and "infidels" but to save shared British values of tolerance and respect."Our fight is with those who do not share our values and who use terror to try to force us to accept theirs," he said. "The principles of devotion to family and society, to faith and to good deeds are not ones that are restricted to Islam alone; they are the values of Britain." He urged: "That is why I am asking you to be part of that fight for our common values. For this is the real conflict."

Mr Reid was expected to face tough questioning from the gathering, both on his recent record as Home Secretary responsible for community relations and as defence secretary who oversaw operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Since the 7 July bombings, the Government and police have set up several projects to try to improve links with the Muslim community.

[xmasdale]

[xmasdale]

Weren't we were all meant to see that "Muslim" heckler on our TV screens? He's a well-known extremist and the audience was hand picked. So what was the purpose of having him there? To instill in the public's mind that the Muslim community is full of fanatics like him and we should all be very scared and allow the government to restrict civil liberties in order to protect us from these crazy people and to wage war in the Middle East for similar reasons?

I think there is a long way to go before we can end this public perception but exposing 9/11 will be a major landmark on the way.

[Rory Winter]

Wake up and smell the coffee!
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com/2006/09/wake-up-and-smell-coffee-wh ile.html

While listening to the News I was in my kitchen, preparing supper. When I saw Abu Izzadeen shouting at Reid my intial feelings were those of excitement that somebody was having a go at the thug, Reid, who himself was looking dazed and bemused by the sudden attack.

Then I began to feel uncomfortable, even embarrassed. Clearly, Reid and the media were loving it and doing everything to show up Izzadeen as an "extremist" and a dangerous clown.



Why was I feeling uncomfortable and embarrassed, I asked myself? It was then I realised why: if I had been in Izzadeen's place I would have probably reacted to Reid in just the same way through pent-up anger, frustration and contempt for a cowardly, opportunist, corrupt politician who, bereft of any moral claim, has stooped to the lowest levels of tribal bigotry to score his points.

To me, Abu Izzadeen's outburst symbolises the collective anger of an entire society of the politically marginalised which Reid and his Nu Labour cronies have helped to create in a Britain divided between haves and have-nots.

An entire society! Not only of blacks and Muslims but of all races religions and colours who are being trodden underfoot by the Big Brother jackboots that the thug Reid, his cronies and the Mainstream Media represent.

Instead of playing their game and inanely nodding our own heads, saying, "Oh yes, that Izzadeen chap. He's definitely an extremist. See how he shouts in a disaffected, London Carribbean accent. Look at his clothes! He's black and dangerous!" Oh no, we can't tolerate the likes of him in Britain!, instead of allowing ourselves to be duped so easily by the system ... how about seeing what's really going on?

About who's really the threat to our freedoms, who's removing our freedoms in a raft of legislation turning our country into a prison camp for the new world odour? Where are the real killers, the mass murderers hiding in their Green Zones, protected by their thuggish bodyguards, secret services and and all-compliant media?

How about standing up for our freedoms, stepping out of the shoes of the marginalised victim and taking a page out of Britain's past, its tradition of radical dissent and old-time socialism?

Of course they'll call us extremists. They always do when their stinking, rotten system is threatened. Soon they'll call us terrorists as well for the legislation which while today is being used against non-whites will soon be turned on the entire population. Make no mistake, that is the nature of the prison-camp they are creating in this heavily-surveilled colony of Washington's Evil Empire.

We should be supporting Britons who have the courage to speak out at the right time and in the right place. We should see them as modern British dissenters, not "extremists". As Izzadeen himself said, we should wake up and smell the coffee!

[Sinclair]

[Rory Winter]

"He's a well-known extremist". Who says so? The Media? And you believe the Media!?!

What do you really know about this guy apart from all the garbage you've read in the mainstream media? Yet you fall for the typical racist brain-washing that he's a fanatic blah, blah.

Admit it, your entirely prejudiced views have been determined by what you see of him and what others have told you of him, some big mouthed Caribbean towel-head!

[Rory Winter]

For the record and in order that folk should really have the facts, it is more than likely that what the media present to us as an "extremist" is really an MI6 stooge.

Here's what I have been told by a very reliable, investigative source:

"Abu Izzadeen is a notorious member of Omar Bakri Mohammed's extremist network formerly known as 'Al-muhajiroun'."

"Bakri is an MI6 recruit, and is currently being protected from investigation vis-a-vis 7/7 via his exile to Lebanon, from where he continues to incite violence and raise funds for unknown operations. Bakri is routinely called in for a chat by the Lebanese authorities at the request of the British, whose response to questions about this is "no comment"."

"Izzadeen is probably either on the same payroll (he is in contact with Bakri), or is an unwitting dupe of Bakri, who appears to have a nice, cosy relationship with the British authorities even now."

From his media track-record it is more than likely that Izzadeen is an MI6 agent provocateur. Whether he is on their payroll or a convenient dupe we cannot say. But Reid's bragging that he was prepared to make himself vulnerable by addressing a meeting in Leytonstone is perhaps a good indicator that the entire incident was a set-up.

None of this should distract us from the fact that what Izzadeen actually did was to heckle the thug Reid. Since when has heckling become an extremist act in Britain's brave new world?

[sr4470]

Thats what has already been said, in different words.

All of the large-scale terrorism (eg Sept 11, London, Madrid bombings and so on) is usually state\intelligence managed. Smaller events, like a suicide attack on a few IDF soldiers patrolling is actual "grassroots terrorism".