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iro
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 376
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 Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: Am I an enemy of 9/11 truth? |
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On a different thread pikey asked me these questions and suggested that i should stick to critics corner as i am not part of this movement due to my answers. I find that pretty insulting, paramount to a brainwashed canalised follow the leader focus that i see daily in the world of politics. I am no longer shocked to see this clique-y and singular ethos expressed here as many members seem to be infested with the delusion that they are crusaders of truth on a divine mission that the world will eventually follow them on.
if i am now a 'critic' for holding these views and am unwelcome here then i will no longer post here and interrupt your campaign. I will judge whether i will continue to contribute or not based on the balance of replies to this thread.
it began when i wrote this:
| Quote: | ..by getting involved in the political system...er thats as un-independent as you can possibly get. I don't mean to be negative in the wider sense my statement is not a negative one - do whatever you feel that empowers you, i just wont be tagging along with that idea for the reasons ive expressed earlier in this thread
If it's publicity you are after by electioneering (as 2 posters mentioned)- well thats a chimera as success of radical groups is very unlikely and will lead to pigeon-holing and ridicule by the mainstream and a powerless existence (BNP, respect, monster raving loony party...etc..) Any effect these groups have has been counteracted by their inability to be effective outside of small powerless areas
no one has the answers - certainly not me, but i do have plenty of 'no go areas' and politics is top of the list.
i believe in civil disobedience (worked for the suffragettes and gandi) and breaking the monopoly of control the system wields on society by exposing its weakness as it is after all only held in place by daily consent by 100% of the population. by partaking in politics you are consenting further to being lied to and living in a police state.
what have stop the war achieved with their pacifist marching - nothing. what are they likely to achieve - nothing. The gov't ignored 1 million protesters on their doorstep on the eve of the iraq war - they wont listen now. time to stop playing games. If people really want to effect change then this system has gotta come down and be exposed as rotten and replaced as soon as possible. only THEN can a truly independent panel be formed and succeed in investigating 9/11 |
and the questions followed:
| Quote: | my replies in bold
Please could you respond to the following questions:
| Quote: | (a) how you propose we gain MASSIVE public support in not too long a timescale (otherwise the official CT will go down in the history books and the content of books like David Ray Griffins will be put down as another JFK type conspiracy theory)
1) get rid of no planes from this site
2) Understand that at the political level this will never bite in the UK as it is a de facto american event. Even though it affects us profoundely no 'action' will be taken here for that premise by anyone public in a position of power. The UK is married to the US in a very subserviant way and following political avenues is pointless. We are outside the system - best operate on that premise and with that advantage.
3) Stop putting deadlines on the impossible. Massive public support will not happen as a result of 9/11 truth - it will by reflection of a more pressing event .. possibly the reaction to the Iran war or the bush presidency etc... that will then deflect opened eyes and that is when this kind of campaign will shine.
4) Get the ignormaus poposity and arrogance off this campaign and this site with people thinking they are better than those in the media and private life who are 'asleep'. This is not endemic here but it is far too visible. No one will react to this info if it is presented in such a way constantly. i believe the quote 'communication is only possible between equals' is relevant...
(b) how you propose creating peaceful civil disobediance. |
good question. there are as many ways as there are minds to think of them. All i am sure of is it has to be non violent so as to attract no negative sentiment (remember the fuel protests a few years ago - everyone supported them) it has to involve bodies on the streets literally blocking the criminals from getting to their positions of power to wage wars and draft polics state legislation. there are not enough people to do that because they are following the neutered stop the war campaign which is controlled opposition and as dangerous to the gov't as apple pie's coming alive and taking over blighty
Supplementary questions:-
1. have you signed the petition on the front page supporting the demand for a full professional independent investigation into 911?
no. i dont believe an independent investigation is possible under the current political and social situation. those must be corrected before any of the above is done. If it does happen it will be used to invite a controlled damage release of what happened to make sure it is blamed on the bush admin for example to ensure the system at large continues along with minimal disruption (go back to sleep etc...) that is a counter productive occurence
2. are you a member of a 911 truth group? If you are which group would that be.
no. i am a member of no groups and will never be. i am an individual and i expect that you and others respect that
3. do you campaign for 911 truth and if so what methods do you use?
directly no. But my work and my personal conversations always advance my views. So of course i talk about it. I work academically in politics research and my research is primarily on 'new imperialism' as john pilger would call it and that is using terror and war to cement a new order of might as right and the weak are left to suffer regardless. I also look into a wide range of topics inside the political paradigm, but i am aiming to push the debate inside the box to include the fact that terror events are state sponsored.
i do not protest or campaign. they are both not condusive to progress in my opinion, although i did intend to stay in london for the 9/11 protest after i went to the DRG event to meet people and offer support for those who do choose to protest, but i had to go back to work on the monday.
many people who dont know me think im defeatist and negative. When they get to know me they understand that i am very progressive and forward thinking, but immensely critical. I can see how i'd come across reading the above, but i really dont care what others think of me and ive extended you this lengthly and detailed response because you made the effort to ask.
cheers, iro |
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Ignatz
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hi iro, and welcome to the outback.
As for where you post - the forum is barely moderated at all and critical posts in the General forum are accepted (at least so far). I see you have 130 posts. Have you only recently been asked to get out of there?
There are several regular "Truthers" over here who will debate in a reasonable fashion, and others who are untouchable - no point can ever be made and they will make no points. If you want to debate the latter then expect to be labelled as a shill and a troll. Extreme verbal abuse is not too uncommon.
As an example of how the "Truth" movement is fragmented and contaminated by extremists, this place is a perfect example.
p.s. I agree totally with your analysis of how any further official 9/11 investigation will have to wait for a change in political circumstances.
cheers |
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iro
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 376
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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thankyou. im a pretty seasoned thinker and forum poster on the whole, im not bothered by the occasional rabid mouthed poster - but i have met too many here to be comfortable with and yes ive been called a 'fraud' for being critical of certain things...you could just call it being objective though, thats how i see it.
im just assessing whether i should bother coming here much longer or this movement is heading into nowhere. |
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Ignatz
Moderate Poster
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| iro wrote: | thankyou. im a pretty seasoned thinker and forum poster on the whole, im not bothered by the occasional rabid mouthed poster - but i have met too many here to be comfortable with and yes ive been called a 'fraud' for being critical of certain things...you could just call it being objective though, thats how i see it.
im just assessing whether i should bother coming here much longer or this movement is heading into nowhere. |
For my money -
Any movement for an investigation into the US administration's monstrous incompetence, and deliberate manipulative abuse of the disaster, is very worthy.
A movement to prove that 9/11 was a CT whether LIHOP or MIHOP is probably futile.
As for "here" .. the overwhelming impression I get is is of a mass of people who mostly don't understand science or logic and just want to be associated with an enthusiastic gang. It's a shame for the decent people, but also an inevitable inconvenience with the Truth movement that they're going to have to deal with. |
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