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Pikey
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Location: North Lancashire
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 Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: The way forward |
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http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=27385#27385
To avoid my above positive thread being destroyed by negativity and doom and gloom by iro (sorry I did not mean to offend you by putting your initials in caps and I will never take the bait of playing the man rather than the ball!) I have put this here to facilitate constructive and respectful debate/criticism (not destructive and disrespectful, please)
Andrew Johnson's usual creative and positive input is very revealing. Look at the peaks on the graph and ask yourself where is the correlation/how did that occur?
The start of this thread should be IMO Ian Neals blog:-
| Quote: | I think this illustrates the tension (which really need not be a tension) that has always existed within this campaign/movement/network between the desire of campaigners for order, structure and professionalism in a campaign and a more anarchic, unstructured and organic approach.
To date we have followed the anarchic route with little central or national level co-ordination. Over the past year we have started to put in place basic structures, a committee, a bank account and organised the DRG weekend events. The campaign website is in development.
The purpose of the national committee and this new website (as I understand it) is to present the strongest and most credible case to the public. In order to be effective it may not go as far as some people would like it to or for others may be too far. For those that feel this is where they can best focus their energies, there are a load of jobs to do and any offers of help are appreciated.
For others they will choose to campaign independently or in their own ways. Those that want to get involved at a national level, the opportunity exists, including the opportunity to influence what path or strategies are adopted. For those that prefer local or independent campaigning, we need that as well. Let a thousand flowers bloom.
Once the 'credible website' is launched this site will be reworked to more accurately describe itself as an on-line community where hopefully all 9/11 truth campaigners can meet. One important function of such a forum will be to act as a critical friend to the 'The 9/11 Truth Campaign (Britain & Ireland)'.
On first take the 2 paths being discussed (putting forward political candidates and mass peaceful civil disobedience) appear incompatable but they need not be. Just as on first take it would seem that creating a credible campaign with national structures and even discussions of elections for comittee membership and retaining anarchic unfettered approach to campaigning are incompatable. They need not be.
My natural tendency is to follow the more anarchic or organic route and avoid bureaucracy and structures where ever possible. I fear that any co-ordinated political campaign will require an incredible degree of organisation, bureaucracy and structures that will not be quick to mobilise.
But may be the solution this particular discussion is to try both approaches on a small scale. Put up one or two candidates in elections, say the next by-election and see how it goes. Similarly undertake a modest picket or small direct action (preferrably sufficiently 'newsworthy' to be noticed) and see how that goes.
Personally I reckon the festival curcuit is one of the most fertile to target and progressive, peace, green festival crowds are our natural allies and that's where I plan to focus my energies. May be after this weekend's truthfest momentum will build for bigger and bigger events |
I totally agree with Ian's quote:-
| Quote: | | Let a thousand flowers bloom. |
however the reality is that any campaign, business, etc if it is going to be successful has to be steered and IMO the most effective way of doing this is by a dedicated group of individuals, a steering committee who have a common goal and it must not facilitate a division of the Britain and Ireland 911 truth campaign. Polarisation being the operative word.
Regarding Ian's statement:-
| Quote: | | For those that feel this is where they can best focus their energies, there are a load of jobs to do and any offers of help are appreciated. |
To facilitate this I would suggest our dedicated Secretary, Annie Machon start a new thread either in the public or private forum on this. There were no announcements of this made at our national gathering a couple of weeks ago other than nominations for the vacated position of Vice Chair.
I believe that the establishment of creative and active 911 truth groups is the key to the success of the 911 truth campaign in the UK and I am not advocating the setting up of 911 truth political candidates, that is a choice for individuals to take in a free democratic society.
It is important that the momentum in the growth and support for the campaign is maintained and that cannot be achieved by blogging on websites or the creation of talking shops.
The biggest threat to the success of this campaign IMO is those who possees huge egos! Its not about the messenger its all about the message!
Vision and action and empowering each other is the way forward.
Peace & truth
_________________
Pikey
Peace, truth, respect and a Mason free society
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaH-lGafwtE#
www.wholetruthcoalition.org
www.truthforum.co.uk
www.checktheevidence.com
www.newhorizonsstannes.com
www.tpuc.org
www.cpexposed.com
www.thebcgroup.org.uk
www.fmotl.com |
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Pikey
Banned
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Location: North Lancashire
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iro
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 376
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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thinking out of the box pikey along the lines ive discussed on the original thread.
we cant play the politicians at their own rigged game - it is a sure road to nowhere as you put it only in reverse. |
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iro
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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this is taken from i post i made elsewhere - save me retyping it to fit!
the poster suggested raising the taxes to push out the dominance of private finance on the political system as a means to 'cleaning up politics' and getting our views represented by honest men and women....
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do you not understand that forced taxation is a method of coercion and is slavery for want of a better term. Your tax and mine is now being spent killing children in Africa by default and in actuality in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Increasing the tax hoarde is madness - whoever has the reigns of power will then be even more powerful. The tax system was created by despotic leaders in the ancient world and developed by the european monarchies to consolidate their own power and keep the populace down and poor and subservient.
tax therefore is a symptom of the problem and it also has to go.
Anyone arguing for increases in tax (socialists) are asking for a bigger state and less control over their own lives - they want big daddy to come and do it all for them. The right who supposedly want less taxation so that the market can rule our lives is an even worse prospect as private interests are wholly unaccountable. better off surely to ditch the whole system and be done with all of it and redesign from the bottom up.
The foundations of our society are rottten - why keep buliding on that rotten core?
Rousseau said 'man is born free, but he is everywhere in chains' highlighting how the society we live in leeches off us and entraps us from birth. This is the reason 9/11 happened and the reason why no one has broken their shackles on mass and said 'down with the oppressors' insead what do people do.... they go on a jolly march holding placards then go to starbucks on the way home to their comfy life thinking they have made a difference.
I suppose a link would come in handy regarding my taxation ideas as they may seem mad to some. I believe in zero taxation. it is not as mad as you may think and it is not a recipe for anarchy - but freedom FROM the state whilst still reaping the benefits of having a state.
Robert Nozick is the key proponent of this idea and it is an extension of the liberalism paradigm of thought - here is an short article i wrote on nozicks theory:
http://p4.forumforfree.com/anarchy-state-and-utopia-robert-nozick-vt11 86-laidbackchat.html
and a far more extensive summary:
http://world.std.com/~mhuben/wolff_2.html |
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Pikey
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Location: North Lancashire
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iro
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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you dont think getting rid of taxation is an unprecedented measure???!!!!!  |
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Pikey
Banned
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Posts: 1491
Location: North Lancashire
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iro
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 376
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Pikey wrote: | iro if you look through what you have blogged on the thread I started, nowhere do you refer to getting rid of taxation, and no I have not read the other threads you have contributed to/started.
If thats one of your "unprecendented measures" what are the others?and what is its relevance to this website and the objective of the 911 truth campaign to have a full professional independent investigation into exposing the whole truth of 911? |
so you think the only reason to being here is to get that singular and completely canalised goal?
total nonesense. i think you have misunderstood the function of this movement in a wider sense. perhaps you are too blinded for your own good.
reading your constant requests for me and others to inspire you and come up with solutions i can only deduce that you are incapable of your own thought on these matters. i have not come here to give answers - i dont have many myself. i really whince though when i see members of an ACTIVIST community looking for inspiration and leadership.
be your own inspiration - set your own goals and objectives and set out to achieving them in your own way. dont look to me to fill in the gaps.
this kind of exclusivity and clique mentality will destroy this movement before it even lifts off if it continues. you need to look up or forward once in a while pikey. |
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Pikey
Banned
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1491
Location: North Lancashire
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iro
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 376
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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no further pms!! are you trying to give out the impression that i am hassling you when i sent you one pm just touching base and making an effort not to get misunderstood and argue with you.....
dont worry i will not send another - jeez yo make sending a pm sound like giving someone AIDS or something
if you think that positivity is a valid attribute alone then thats great. but without a wide scope and a balanced critical outlook it is also known as blindness. Positivity throughout europe in the late 1930's over the German problem did not stop the inevitable war that was coming did it...
you are mistaking objectivity for pessimism - and that is a problem.
shoot the guy who's different just in case you may be wrong so no one will point it out afterwards...very clever strategy. One that is commonly used by the government etc.. to keep society looking one way and not asking tricky questions. and you imply that i am in the same camp as the shills - give me a break |
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