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The death of MIHOP
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9/11, 7/7 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> Critics' Corner

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What is the most compelling evidence for MIHOP?

World Trade Center 1 & 2 Collapses

12%

[ 2 ]

World Trade Center 7 Collapse

50%

[ 8 ]

Flight 93 anomalies

[ 0 ]

Pentagon anomalies

12%

[ 2 ]

Other

25%

[ 4 ]

Total Votes : 16

Author

Message

chek
Mega Poster

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject:

chipmunk stew wrote:

chek wrote:

chipmunk stew wrote:

chek wrote:

chipmunk stew wrote:

prole art threat wrote:

Mark Roberts, what does he actually do for a living?

He's a tour guide in NYC.

What do you think of the information presented in the document?

The testimonies are good to have in a single source - I'm still reading through the previous download I have.
But as an explanation, it's thin.
When I see an explantion that addresses all the issues, then I'll be impressed.
Is it a beta release pending feedback?

I don't know. But he's very open to constructive feedback. His email address is on the cover page.

edit: Alternatively, you could register at JREF forum, which he frequents. Or you could email him and ask if he would address your concerns here (he has an active account, I believe).

Uh... is that it? What with all the build up I was expecting to be sending hate mail to Steve Jones this eveniing.
Ah well - better luck next time.

What do you mean: "Is that it?" You asked me about feedback. Are you going to contact the "organ grinder" or not? Maybe after conversing with Mark, you will be sending Jones hate mail. (It's doubtful, as you're one of the true believers. But hope springs eternal.)

CS - yes a true believer in getting to the truth wherever it may lead - agreed.
But not in accepting half-baked semi-explanations from what is on offer from NIST, FEMA, the 911 Commission and the likes of King and Roberts.
I hope you can still discern the difference.
When Bowman gets to Congress next month, an independent reinvestigation is top of his list.
Scuttlebut is that the 911 Commission Report alone gives enough ammo for the first salvo.
I can't wait.

chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: The death of MIHOP

chek wrote:

chipmunk stew wrote:

chek wrote:

While there is lots of documentation of FDNY predicting a collapse - and that some collapse was expected

I think you should re-read the hundred-some quotes from eyewitnesses starting around page 37. They expected total collapse.

I accept that some collapse was expected - I don't know how anyone could expect total collapse - as in every last girder - let alone a collapse so neat as to leave a debris field of no more than perimeter plus 70ft (NIST figure).
To attempt to imply that would happen naturally - and indeed is the only possible outcome is - misleading to say the least.

They didn't know how it was going to collapse. They cleared a 600-foot radius collapse zone.

That it fell mostly vertically without much tipping was probably a result of the "horizontal collapse progression" I mentioned above. It may seem unlikely from a common sense standpoint, but given the probable nature of the failure, it's unsurprising.

chek
Mega Poster

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: The death of MIHOP

chipmunk stew wrote:

chek wrote:

chipmunk stew wrote:

chek wrote:

While there is lots of documentation of FDNY predicting a collapse - and that some collapse was expected

I think you should re-read the hundred-some quotes from eyewitnesses starting around page 37. They expected total collapse.

Then I would hazard a guess you were the only unsurprised person in the room, if not the entire country (the perps having no doubt left long before).

Ignatz
Moderate Poster

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject:

chipmunk stew wrote:

John White wrote:

Get Mark Roberts here and it might be worth the effort: I'm sure that's already in the pipeline

It's not, but if you'd like him to address you personally, his email is on the cover page. Invite him here if you think it would be a worthwhile effort.

chipmunk -

John White
chek *
Andrew Johnson
iro
prole fart threat
TRUTH..SETU3
dh

and many of the regular Truthers here are fervent believers in the Chemtrail plot. Andrew Johnson has even "published" (don't laugh ) here :
http://www.checktheevidence.com/articles/chem%20trails.htm

AJ is a "chosen one"

* edit - amended , see below
_________________
So remember - next time you can't find a parking spot, go to plan B: blow up your car

Last edited by Ignatz on Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

chek
Mega Poster

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject:

Ignatz wrote:

chipmunk stew wrote:

John White wrote:

Get Mark Roberts here and it might be worth the effort: I'm sure that's already in the pipeline

It's not, but if you'd like him to address you personally, his email is on the cover page. Invite him here if you think it would be a worthwhile effort.

chipmunk -

John White
chek
Andrew Johnson
iro
prole fart threat
TRUTH..SETU3
dh

and many of the regular Truthers here are fervent believers in the Chemtrail plot. Andrew Johnson has even "published" (don't laugh ) here :
http://www.checktheevidence.com/articles/chem%20trails.htm

AJ is a "chosen one"

Disinformation Ignatz?
I am surprised (though admittedly, not much).
I challenge you to show where I reveal being a 'fervent believer'.
We'll leave aside what that has to do with the price of coal for now.

Ignatz
Moderate Poster

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject:

chek wrote:

Ignatz wrote:

Regarding your proposal that cipro might be an antidote for the 'chem' in the chemtrails:

Quote:

MiniMauve wrote:
I see, but that's still pretty messy and unreliable. How would they explain it to their family and friends, and at the same time retain secrecy. The point I'm getting at here is that for something of this magnitude, it would have be kept under very deep secrecy, which makes it difficult to protect one's people if it is as pervasive as is suggested here.

chek wrote:

I suggested that as a recent example of protection for some but not others. (The Bush administration were issuing Cipro to themselves before the anthrax attacks). As we don't even know what the alleged agent is or what it's doing, use of cipro only suggests a method of selective protection

Agreed without hesitation chek - I'll downgrade you to 'moderate'

Can we all issue a challenge that gets answered? I have a few for you that were 'overlooked' at the time? Awaiting your reply. It'll be scientific stuff.
_________________
So remember - next time you can't find a parking spot, go to plan B: blow up your car

Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill

Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject:

prole art threat wrote:

chipmunk stew wrote:

prole art threat wrote:

Mark Roberts, what does he actually do for a living?

He's a tour guide in NYC.

What do you think of the information presented in the document?

It's bollox and it will never see daylight. It will never be published because the guy is mentally ill. How come he hasnt asked Jimmy Walters for that million, yet?

Quote:

If your delusion was peeled away and you could see how you are going out of your way to hinder a beautiful movement, you would be horrified. Youre dirty, sickening people, like rodents scurrying around, scavenging for cheap tricks. Quite disgusting. There is a double bed in hell with yours and Mark Roberts' name tag on it.

You have a fine approach to evidence - "Burn the heretics!"

chek
Mega Poster

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject:

Ignatz wrote:

chek wrote:

Ignatz wrote:

Regarding your proposal that cipro might be an antidote for the 'chem' in the chemtrails:

Quote:

chek wrote:

Given that the examples quoted are strictly uncommitted and neutral comments on method for the purposes of discussion even that is overstating it.
But if it makes you feel better, I think that if others have studied the phenomena and eliminated the obvious then there may be something to look into. As I've never observed them in my part of the country, it's not high on my list.
Rather like UFO's - a strictly theoretical possibility until I spoke to a US airman who had a friend at Bentwaters in 1980. Hearsay of course, but he seemed pretty convinced there were such things, if not what their purpose is.
Anyroad up, ask your question and I shall try to answer, although if it's much more scientific than the formula for salt, you may be disppointed..

Andrew Johnson
Mighty Poster

Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1919
Location: Derbyshire

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject:

Truthers 146 - Trolls 0 ! I love it!!! _________________ Andrew Ask the Tough Questions, Folks!

jsut_peopel
Minor Poster

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject:

prole art threat wrote:

Hey that's beautiful, I've got a tear in my eye. Really congratulations, you do your cause a great service with words like those.

jsut_peopel
Minor Poster

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject:

chek wrote:

jsut_peopel wrote:

chek wrote:

jsut_peopel wrote:

chek wrote:

Disappointing response critics.
The massive heat not important?
As if it had nothing to do with anything?

Ok. How did this "massive heat" affect the collapse of the towers?

Quote:

Can't think of a good reason for doing it?
WE have to supply a MOTIVE???
The collapse wasn't symmetrical?

A motive would be a good start yes.

Well, the mess it left behind doesn't look very symmetrical. Maybe you'd like to show me otherwise.

Quote:

I'm stunned at the weakness of response, considering this 'death knell' - answers nothing about what makes the event remarkable. A collapsed building is in itself not suspicious.

What apart from the fact that terrorists decided to fly planes into the twin towers is remarkable exactly?

Quote:

Btw I just searched the pdf and the words symmetry or symmetrical or any aspect realting to the specific manner of collapse (unless 'vertical progression' is what you refer to) is absent.

Have you actually read the document you are criticising? Using an automated search to look for key words is not the same thing as reading it.

Quote:

Looks like Shill Systems Inc Albuquerque, New Mexico will have to sink another few million dollars into it to make this turkey fly.

Looks like more moonbat paranoia that will stop people from taking you seriously.

Yet more non answers. I'll wait a little longer while you confer.

Oh I'm sorry, if you clarify the points up there I just asked you about, we can have a discussion. Until you offer me something of substance to discuss with you all I can do is ask you for clarification of your points. So by all means give me your answers and we can progress.

Sorry mate, I think I'll wait till the organ grinder shows up. No offence.

You still have nothing of substance to discuss I see. Oh well. Surely convincing a mere "monkey" of the veracity of your statements should be easy. I wonder why you don't attempt it. My guess is that you don't actually have the confidence in yourself to be able to explain your theories, or that you have no theory to speak of at all just a bunch of quotes learned parrot fashion. When you do learn to think for yourself let me know and we can discuss things.

jsut_peopel
Minor Poster

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject:

Andrew Johnson wrote:

:)

Truthers 146 - Trolls 0 !

I love it!!!

Ah yes, labelling people who don't agree with you as trolls is just another way to win the hearts and minds of those doubters eh? Well done you. You go girl!

Anti-sophist
Moderate Poster

Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject:

Quote:

There is a double bed in hell with yours and Mark Roberts' name tag on it.

You must be an evangellical christian. Never seen such contempt for science. If there is a place for those two in Hell, I will certainly be beside them. If science, reason, and truth are tickets to Hell, I'm headed their quickly.

prole art threat
Validated Poster

Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 804
Location: London Town

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject:

I just find you all incredibly odd. Here's one of your lot. He's your appointed new leader. How fitting! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk5y8CWFvjg _________________ 'Maybe if I can show some lurking kids that this is all a pack of lies, then maybe I can make a difference. I don't plan on converting any of you because you're all mad.' -Johnny Pixels

aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster

Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject:

Anti-sophist wrote:

Quote:

There is a double bed in hell with yours and Mark Roberts' name tag on it.

See you there! Save me a cold one, will ya?

Anti-sophist
Moderate Poster

Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I just find you all incredibly odd.

Why? You think it's odd people "believe" in science and human reason? I guess knowledge can only come from God, huh. You keep sounding really religious to me.

prole art threat
Validated Poster

Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 804
Location: London Town

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject:

Anti-sophist wrote:

Quote:

I just find you all incredibly odd.

Why? You think it's odd people "believe" in science and human reason? I guess knowledge can only come from God, huh. You keep sounding really religious to me.

That's just it, you dont believe in science and human reason. The Truth Movement is expanding on a daily basis. Your dreary protestations will prove to be futile. Seriously, I have worked in a proffessional capacity with people who are 'in denial' and you 'Official Theorists' manifest all the hallmarks of what is, essentially, a mental illness. You have allowed your entire world view perspective to be polluted, perverted and distorted by the very people you are seeking to redeem. You are the victims of psychic and psychological tyranny. You have actually allowed the system to morally bankrupt you on a sub-conscious level.

I suggest you at least watch the first fifteen minutes of this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8545585184878490822&q=michael +tsarion
_________________
'Maybe if I can show some lurking kids that this is all a pack of lies, then maybe I can make a difference. I don't plan on converting any of you because you're all mad.'
-Johnny Pixels

Anti-sophist
Moderate Poster

Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:58 pm Post subject:

Quote:

That's just it, you dont believe in science and human reason.

Yes, I do.

Quote:

The Truth Movement is expanding on a daily basis.

So is evangellical Christianity. I haven't decided which group you really belong to.

Quote:

Your dreary protestations will prove to be futile. Seriously, I have worked in a proffessional capacity with people who are 'in denial' and you 'Official Theorists' manifest all the hallmarks of what is, essentially, a mental illness. You have allowed your entire world view perspective to be polluted, perverted and distorted by the very people you are seeking to redeem. You are the victims of psychic and psychological tyranny. You have actually allowed the system to morally bankrupt you on a sub-conscious level.

Sophistry.

chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:34 am Post subject:

prole art threat wrote:

I just find you all incredibly odd.

Here's one of your lot. He's your appointed new leader. How fitting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk5y8CWFvjg

He sure is odd. Any response yet to the information presented in Mark Roberts' document?

The hundred-plus eyewitness statements that the collapse of WTC7 was expected, for instance?

prole art threat
Validated Poster

Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 804
Location: London Town

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:46 am Post subject:

chipmunk stew wrote:

prole art threat wrote:

I just find you all incredibly odd.

Here's one of your lot. He's your appointed new leader. How fitting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk5y8CWFvjg

He sure is odd. Any response yet to the information presented in Mark Roberts' document?

The hundred-plus eyewitness statements that the collapse of WTC7 was expected, for instance?

Yeah, Stew, I think your mate has cracked it. Can I come and join you lot now?
_________________
'Maybe if I can show some lurking kids that this is all a pack of lies, then maybe I can make a difference. I don't plan on converting any of you because you're all mad.'
-Johnny Pixels

Anti-sophist
Moderate Poster

Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:49 am Post subject:

I though the whole point was finding the truth about 9/11? Why are you ignoing a compiliation of evidence? Evidence is the best friend of a truth-seeker, and believer in science. I guess when someone "believes" like you, they don't need evidence. Tell me, again, are we talking about fundamentalist religion or conspiracy theories. You keep confusing me.

prole art threat
Validated Poster

Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 804
Location: London Town

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:52 am Post subject:

Anti-sophist wrote:

I though the whole point was finding the truth about 9/11? Why are you ignoing a compiliation of evidence? Evidence is the best friend of a truth-seeker, and believer in science. I guess when someone "believes" like you, they don't need evidence. Tell me, again, are we talking about fundamentalist religion or conspiracy theories. You keep confusing me.

Listen, I have been researching it for the last 14 months. It was an inside Job and the people who believe the official version are becoming an ever decreasing circle, which means your job is just going to become harder and harder. Ask yourself this, why is the 9/11 Truth Seeking community increasing on a daily basis?
_________________
'Maybe if I can show some lurking kids that this is all a pack of lies, then maybe I can make a difference. I don't plan on converting any of you because you're all mad.'
-Johnny Pixels

chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:54 am Post subject:

prole art threat wrote:

Anti-sophist wrote:

Quote:

I just find you all incredibly odd.

Why? You think it's odd people "believe" in science and human reason? I guess knowledge can only come from God, huh. You keep sounding really religious to me.

I'm sorry, mate, I struggled through about eleven and a half minutes of this thing before I had to turn it off. Bush is an agent of the British royals and the Black Pope, sent to destroy America. But that's just the beginning...

There's no fetching you back up the rabbit hole, is there?

chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:57 am Post subject:

prole art threat wrote:

Anti-sophist wrote:

Whether it is or not doesn't change a thing in terms of What Really Happened.

Is this a movement based on finding answers or based on hanging the heretics from the lamp posts?

prole art threat
Validated Poster

Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 804
Location: London Town

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:57 am Post subject:

chipmunk stew wrote:

prole art threat wrote:

Anti-sophist wrote:

Quote:

I just find you all incredibly odd.

Why? You think it's odd people "believe" in science and human reason? I guess knowledge can only come from God, huh. You keep sounding really religious to me.

Put it this way, the rabbit hole is getting very full. What are you planning to do about it? Because once we are IN the rabbit hole, you will never prise us out.
_________________
'Maybe if I can show some lurking kids that this is all a pack of lies, then maybe I can make a difference. I don't plan on converting any of you because you're all mad.'
-Johnny Pixels

prole art threat
Validated Poster

Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 804
Location: London Town

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:59 am Post subject:

What is it like being on the losing side? _________________ 'Maybe if I can show some lurking kids that this is all a pack of lies, then maybe I can make a difference. I don't plan on converting any of you because you're all mad.' -Johnny Pixels

chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:59 am Post subject:

prole art threat wrote:

chipmunk stew wrote:

prole art threat wrote:

Anti-sophist wrote:

Quote:

I just find you all incredibly odd.

Why? You think it's odd people "believe" in science and human reason? I guess knowledge can only come from God, huh. You keep sounding really religious to me.

Put it this way, the rabbit hole is getting very full. What are you planning to do about it? Because once we are IN the rabbit hole, you will never prise us out.

Eventually, when the lost causes are the only ones left in there, I'll just fill it in with concrete, pave it over, and go on with my life.

prole art threat
Validated Poster

Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 804
Location: London Town

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:01 am Post subject:

Why dont you get on with your life now? What is it that brings you to this dingy critters corner to protest the innocence of a bunch of psychopathic criminals? _________________ 'Maybe if I can show some lurking kids that this is all a pack of lies, then maybe I can make a difference. I don't plan on converting any of you because you're all mad.' -Johnny Pixels Last edited by prole art threat on Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total

chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:01 am Post subject:

prole art threat wrote:

What is it like being on the losing side?

Oh, now I see. It's about winning at all costs, not about finding answers.

prole art threat
Validated Poster

Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 804
Location: London Town

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:03 am Post subject:

You obviously consider the 9/11 Truth Movement to be a very real threat or else you wouldnt spend all your time here? _________________ 'Maybe if I can show some lurking kids that this is all a pack of lies, then maybe I can make a difference. I don't plan on converting any of you because you're all mad.' -Johnny Pixels

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