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Ignatz
Moderate Poster
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918
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 Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: Thermite Video Criticism |
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Spilt from:
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=5106
Posts supporting the OCT and the replies have moved to this thread.
BigD, Cornflour and others take note. YOUR POSTS WILL BE MOVED IF THEY SUPPORT THE OCT. IF you don't like this, post to another message board. This is primarily a campaign website, not an evidence-debating website. We have the evidence - if we didn't, we wouldn't be campaigning. Get it?
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Why/how would "they" place an incendiary that isn't even used in building demolition at the exterior wall of a building they wish to demolish?
Or did it magically "fly" across the floor area, having demolished all obstructions along the way.
You're a sick puppy Patrick.
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Bicnarok
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Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 334
Location: Cydonia
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: |
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thats a good point actually, thermite would have been used to cut through the interior gurders which hold the buildings up. This outside molten fire, although unusual can´t be any substance used to burn through heavy steel, because there wasn´t any on the outside.
If you watch any 9/11 video especially "loose change" they show a diagram of the buildings and where the supporting gurders are.
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Patrick Brown
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Ignatz wrote: | Why/how would "they" place an incendiary that isn't even used in building demolition at the exterior wall of a building they wish to demolish?
Or did it magically "fly" across the floor area, having demolished all obstructions along the way.
You're a sick puppy Patrick. |
The external columns near the impacted floors may well have been cut or weakened by thermite as conventional explosives would have perhaps been to obvious. I believe the core was cut and the mass of the building was enough to pull the skin down although to be sure the perpetrators weakened the external columns on the floors that were impacted. Homing devices could have been used to make sure the planes hit the correct floors.
We've also no reason to believe that the molten metal seen dripping from the south tower prior to collapse was anything other than molten steel. The NIST report does not allow for temperatures anywhere near high enough to melt steel. So what melted the steel?
Can somebody also explain why in the thermite video clip the corner of the tower is seen to be burning? What's burning? Aluminum perhaps?
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Patrick Brown
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| telecasterisation wrote: | I wonder if someone could simply encapsulate what the thermite/thermate advocates believe here;
Is it assumed that there were multiple thermite/thermate sites on all four sides of the building that were triggered simultaneously, all the main supports then failing at the same moment? Then as the upper section of the building collapsed, charges designed to take out the lower supporting structures were detonated automatically?
I can't quite get a clear picture of how this is supposed to have happened bearing in mind the location of the supposed 'thermite' is very close to the plane's impact site which obviously could easily have destroyed any planted charges.
I am not saying it didn't happen, I just don't quite get the event syntax. |
Fallious desn't mention the outer columns but does gives a pretty good run down of events:
| Fallious wrote: | The timeline of actual collapse, including initiation of collapse, is quite clear to me. Given the various features of the collapse, it's relatively simple to establish a 'best case scenario' which would enable the demolition of WTC 1 & 2 in a simple and (moderately) believable manner - and it's all about the core columns.
1. The underground bulk mass, the concrete walls and floors, were weakened and in some cases destroyed by conventional explosives in the basement.
This is supported by the eye/ear witness reports of explosions and video of damage in the basement and ground floor some time before collapse.
2. As fires begin to subside, huge quantities of thermate based cutting or explosives charges were pulled in the basement; these were responsible for breaking the core columns below ground, thus removing all support from the core framework.
This results in the total loss of the core support to the towers, it even acts as a weight, pulling the roof mast, and indeed the upper section of the towers (above the plane damage) into itself, initiating the pancake collapse that we see as characteristic in the first instance of both towers falling.
3. At this point, conventional explosives inside the central shaft begin to blow, vaporising the initial pancaked mass outward and then working their way down the building.
The exo columns are sent flying hundreds of meters outward, embedding themselves in nearby buildings. The tower structure is levelled at free-fall speed, with no resistance, in an exactly symmetrical collapse.
This rings true with me for a few reasons.
- No need for the demolition team to be working in public areas, basement and shaft access is all that's required.
- It's quick to rig; no charges on external columns.
- It produces the initial pancake, without any visible foul play, and so makes the proceeding total collapse more believable.
There is evidence to suggest there are thermate charges inside the upper floors of the towers; the molten metal and small squibs. It's quite probable that thermate charges were used to break the core columns apart once the collapse had begun, before the vaporising demolition charges worked their way down the towers.
Ironic that the commission chose to ignore the core columns completely... I guess that's because during the collapse they may as well have never been there. |
Source: http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=33758#33758
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Fallious
Moderate Poster
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, i'm glad you thought my timeline worth quoting, I figured I should lay out where I stand on this, as a new member  .
I think, this video doesn't particularly contradict any theory. However it does support Prof. Jones' thermite research; having found thermite residue and the hallmark melted cuts on beams he studied, he says his evidence for thermite is "very strong". So I think that it's fine to expect its use.
I'm not too sure about how or why thermite should be coming out of the building here, the location that it originated is difficult to judge. It may have come from an exposed core column, many floors above, or ran down inside the external structure, so, tricky to pin down.
What's important is we have a melted metal here, in a situation that shouldn't have create it. The timing is interesting too, but we can't know how long it was flowing... |
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Patrick Brown
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallious wrote: | Hey, i'm glad you thought my timeline worth quoting, I figured I should lay out where I stand on this, as a new member .
I think, this video doesn't particularly contradict any theory. However it does support Prof. Jones' thermite research; having found thermite residue and the hallmark melted cuts on beams he studied, he says his evidence for thermite is "very strong". So I think that it's fine to expect its use.
I'm not too sure about how or why thermite should be coming out of the building here, the location that it originated is difficult to judge. It may have come from an exposed core column, many floors above, or ran down inside the external structure, so, tricky to pin down.
What's important is we have a melted metal here, in a situation that shouldn't have create it. The timing is interesting too, but we can't know how long it was flowing... |
I had a good think about this and my current best guess on this is the ventilation shafts. But like most of this stuff you would need at least a basic floor plan to see how the metal could have traveled from a core column to the skin of the building. Hmm tricky one.
But there is molten metal dripping from the south tower so this is very much a smoking gun here. The fact that no molten metal is seen to drip from the north tower perhaps suggests that thermite was not used on external columns. I think we have to work on the idea of gravity and mass in conjunction with the core being cut as our working theory. This keeps it simple and simple is normally the preferred method as there is less chance of error.
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Get the Steven E Jones reports >HERE< |
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Geo7863
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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hey nutters, I have some news for you, a * great plane laden with avtur (thats aviation turbine fuel for some of you morons) hit each building causing big fires...fires cause heat...heat melts metal, heated air combusts, when hot enough conctrete bursts like an explosion..
get out a bit more...comspiracy hahahahaha
wibble wibble |
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Cornflour
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Never mind Thermite, have any of you ever subjected MARMITE to the high temperatures caused by burning aviation fuel.
Suject to these temperatures, yeast extract's natural acidity is enough to make swift work of dissolving steel and can easily cause structural failure of the girders. It is also easy to apply to large areas and seems innocuous.
Without a doubt this could have contributed to the colapse without the need for carefully timed explosions. |
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BigD
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornflour wrote: | Never mind Thermite, have any of you ever subjected MARMITE to the high temperatures caused by burning aviation fuel.
Suject to these temperatures, yeast extract's natural acidity is enough to make swift work of dissolving steel and can easily cause structural failure of the girders. It is also easy to apply to large areas and seems innocuous.
Without a doubt this could have contributed to the colapse without the need for carefully timed explosions. |
I thought that MARMITE only “cooked” off and exploded when mixed with EGG BANJO’S, it is after all a well know explosive mix, in fact it’s been banned as a weapon of arrse destruction? |
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Geo7863
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| BigD wrote: | | Cornflour wrote: | Never mind Thermite, have any of you ever subjected MARMITE to the high temperatures caused by burning aviation fuel.
Suject to these temperatures, yeast extract's natural acidity is enough to make swift work of dissolving steel and can easily cause structural failure of the girders. It is also easy to apply to large areas and seems innocuous.
Without a doubt this could have contributed to the colapse without the need for carefully timed explosions. |
I thought that MARMITE only “cooked” off and exploded when mixed with EGG BANJO’S, it is after all a well know explosive mix, in fact it’s been banned as a weapon of arrse destruction? |
No no no no no, the protein content in the yolk of an egg banjo, will disrupt the boiling neutrons in the marmite bomb, a bacon sarnie on the other hand goes well with the whole mixture |
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Cornflour
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| If using the volatile egg marmite banjo it is important to let all the yolk dribble free to get the best effect |
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BigD
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Geo7863 wrote: | | BigD wrote: | | Cornflour wrote: | Never mind Thermite, have any of you ever subjected MARMITE to the high temperatures caused by burning aviation fuel.
Suject to these temperatures, yeast extract's natural acidity is enough to make swift work of dissolving steel and can easily cause structural failure of the girders. It is also easy to apply to large areas and seems innocuous.
Without a doubt this could have contributed to the colapse without the need for carefully timed explosions. |
I thought that MARMITE only “cooked” off and exploded when mixed with EGG BANJO’S, it is after all a well know explosive mix, in fact it’s been banned as a weapon of arrse destruction? |
No no no no no, the protein content in the yolk of an egg banjo, will disrupt the boiling neutrons in the marmite bomb, a bacon sarnie on the other hand goes well with the whole mixture |
NO, NO, NO, You need to add Brown sauce to that mix otherwise it lacks the adhesive properties to attach securely to the upright columns |
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Geo7863
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornflour wrote: | | If using the volatile egg marmite banjo it is important to let all the yolk dribble free to get the best effect |
yes maybe so but if you use HP brown you are in trouble, it was banned by the Stockholm convention of 72!! |
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BigD
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornflour wrote: | | If using the volatile egg marmite banjo it is important to let all the yolk dribble free to get the best effect |
That explains the yellow ejections from the upper floor then, it was the yolk running free moments before the detention occurring, that makes things so much clearer now  |
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Geo7863
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ooops boys and girls must dash out I have a date tonight... you know fresh air, social environment, hot totty gagging for the heat seeking moisture missile...remember HP sauce baaaaaaaaad.... N A A F I sacheted sauce goooooooooood |
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Cornflour
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| BigD wrote: | | Geo7863 wrote: | | BigD wrote: | | Cornflour wrote: | Never mind Thermite, have any of you ever subjected MARMITE to the high temperatures caused by burning aviation fuel.
Suject to these temperatures, yeast extract's natural acidity is enough to make swift work of dissolving steel and can easily cause structural failure of the girders. It is also easy to apply to large areas and seems innocuous.
Without a doubt this could have contributed to the colapse without the need for carefully timed explosions. |
I thought that MARMITE only “cooked” off and exploded when mixed with EGG BANJO’S, it is after all a well know explosive mix, in fact it’s been banned as a weapon of arrse destruction? |
No no no no no, the protein content in the yolk of an egg banjo, will disrupt the boiling neutrons in the marmite bomb, a bacon sarnie on the other hand goes well with the whole mixture |
NO, NO, NO, You need to add Brown sauce to that mix otherwise it lacks the adhesive properties to attach securely to the upright columns |
It is a double edged sword as unless you only use the crusty bit on the top of the bottle, the liquid content becomes to great to correctly synchronise the effects as witnessed. |
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BigD
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Geo7863 wrote: | | Cornflour wrote: | | If using the volatile egg marmite banjo it is important to let all the yolk dribble free to get the best effect |
yes maybe so but if you use HP brown you are in trouble, it was banned by the Stockholm convention of 72!! |
I know that, but since as a terrorist outfit subcontracted by the Whitehouse we are exempt from the regulations, hence the appearance of the blast being almost nuclear in its ferocity, Oh, that and the substitution of NATO Tea (norgie brewed) for the AvGas, hence the huge fireballs created by the impact of the remotely piloted airfix models |
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BigD
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornflour wrote: | | BigD wrote: | | Geo7863 wrote: | | BigD wrote: | | Cornflour wrote: | Never mind Thermite, have any of you ever subjected MARMITE to the high temperatures caused by burning aviation fuel.
Suject to these temperatures, yeast extract's natural acidity is enough to make swift work of dissolving steel and can easily cause structural failure of the girders. It is also easy to apply to large areas and seems innocuous.
Without a doubt this could have contributed to the colapse without the need for carefully timed explosions. |
I thought that MARMITE only “cooked” off and exploded when mixed with EGG BANJO’S, it is after all a well know explosive mix, in fact it’s been banned as a weapon of arrse destruction? |
No no no no no, the protein content in the yolk of an egg banjo, will disrupt the boiling neutrons in the marmite bomb, a bacon sarnie on the other hand goes well with the whole mixture |
NO, NO, NO, You need to add Brown sauce to that mix otherwise it lacks the adhesive properties to attach securely to the upright columns |
It is a double edged sword as unless you only use the crusty bit on the top of the bottle, the liquid content becomes to great to correctly synchronise the effects as witnessed. |
Sorry, I thought that was a given, as if a liquid explosive pool was required, we’d off use tomato ketchup instead |
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BigD
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Geo7863 wrote: | | ooops boys and girls must dash out I have a date tonight... you know fresh air, social environment, hot totty gagging for the heat seeking moisture missile...remember HP sauce baaaaaaaaad.... N A A F I sacheted sauce goooooooooood |
What with a real “live” girl, that’s a first for members of this site without money changing hands, if this carries on the bottom will fall out of the inflatable market |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Evening Geo and Big D
Just as Hera should have familiarised him/her with the rules and previous discussions on arrse, so should you with regards this site.
Critics are welcome to post here in the critics corner but not else where. May be you could introduce something similar on arrse where critics of the army's current adventures can post. Anyway stick to critics corner please and we will along just tickety bo. Failure to do so will lead to your posts being deleted or a ban
Cheers
Ian |
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BigD
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | Evening Geo and Big D
Just as Hera should have familiarised him/her with the rules and previous discussions on arrse, so should you with regards this site.
Critics are welcome to post here in the critics corner but not else where. May be you could introduce something similar on arrse where critics of the army's current adventures can post. Anyway stick to critics corner please and we will along just tickety bo. Failure to do so will lead to your posts being deleted or a ban
Cheers
Ian |
Ian,
Funny I did read the rules, but I binned them in favor of returning the complement, perhaps next time you might not be so quick to point YOUR members towards sites in an attempt to spread what you see as the “truth”, take it as an object lesson in reality, something you and your members BTW seem to be out of touch with.
There’s an old saying, 'Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.', you sowed the seeds of your own invasion, Here endeth the lesson, next time think before you send your crusading horde forth. |
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scar
Moderate Poster
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 724
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| BigD wrote: |
Ian,
Funny I did read the rules, but I binned them in favor of returning the complement, perhaps next time you might not be so quick to point YOUR members towards sites in an attempt to spread what you see as the “truth”, take it as an object lesson in reality, something you and your members BTW seem to be out of touch with.
There’s an old saying, 'Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.', you sowed the seeds of your own invasion, Here endeth the lesson, next time think before you send your crusading horde forth. |
I dont recall ian pointing 'his' members towards your site. Care to link to that? If you cannot will you apologise for the above lies?
You are all welcome here - in critics corner.
Why not create a place like that on your site? As we are so out of touch with reality im sure you will have a good laugh right?
Are you aware of the 'downing street memo'? (if not google it)
| BigD wrote: | | There’s an old saying, 'Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.', you sowed the seeds of your own invasion, Here endeth the lesson, next time think before you send your crusading horde forth. |
Did you serve in iraq? If not do you believe it was justified?
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BigD
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| scar wrote: | | BigD wrote: |
Ian,
Funny I did read the rules, but I binned them in favor of returning the complement, perhaps next time you might not be so quick to point YOUR members towards sites in an attempt to spread what you see as the “truth”, take it as an object lesson in reality, something you and your members BTW seem to be out of touch with.
There’s an old saying, 'Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.', you sowed the seeds of your own invasion, Here endeth the lesson, next time think before you send your crusading horde forth. |
I dont recall ian pointing 'his' members towards your site. Care to link to that? If you cannot will you apologise for the above lies?
You are all welcome here - in critics corner.
Why not create a place like that on your site? As we are so out of touch with reality im sure you will have a good laugh right?
Are you aware of the 'downing street memo'? (if not google it)
| BigD wrote: | | There’s an old saying, 'Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.', you sowed the seeds of your own invasion, Here endeth the lesson, next time think before you send your crusading horde forth. |
Did you serve in iraq? If not do you believe it was justified? |
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=5035
| Quote: |
ian neal
Organiser
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 1039
Location: Richmond Surrey
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:22 am Post subject:
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www.arrse.co.uk/
Army rumour service
Most posters have no time for 'conspiracy nonsense' but by discussing previous treachery such as the US Liberty, the WMD lies, Gulf of Tonkin, etc, etc, etc you may open a few minds to the possibility 9/11 was an inside job
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There’s your evidence in black and white, and then theres the matter as the head Mod not telling HERA to wind his/her’s neck in when it became clear that’s what he/she was going to do, or is the above post not evidence to you?
I take it your reference to Iraq is referring to GW2 rather than GW1?, my personal involvement with Iraq is limited to providing comms for the pre GW1 build up, but that’s probably more involvement than you’ve ever had.
As to was it justified, well that’s a tricky one, its true that the reasons for Saddams removal was badly promoted by the government, however getting rid of a tinpot dictator is not causing me sleepless nights, and in truth he should have been removed the first time around,.
In fact I could give you a very long list of such people who should be removed for the greater good, starting with uncle Bob in Zim, trouble is we as a country have neither the manpower nor the money to sort out the world’s trouble spots, shame really.
What annoys me (and many others) is the way the post war reconstruction has been handled, not by the armed forces, but by those who control the purse strings, if they had been eased off and the money handed over to those people on the ground who could of got things up and running, then things might be a lot better for the locals than they are now. |
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